Karma and Fate

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

It seems you don't have much experience with 'stillness' or Clarity.. it seems your idea of stillness has something to do with 'weed' or drugs, which would account for the lack of understanding.. Stillness is not a cage, it is the absence thereof.. true, stillness is not Clarity, but.. without stillness there is no Clarity..

 

How's that workin' out for you? You posts suggest not so well, but that's just an observation.. i'm sure you'll explain error of the observation..

 

Be well..

Stillness is that which is without a center, for movement arises with the grasping of an element in relative to its background. But that is not your experience of stillness.

 

Don't take metaphors too literally.

 

I don't think you understood what I meant when I said stillness can be a cage.

 

You toss around Clarity, Life, Stillness (which you have yet to define except a meditative state of observation, which is why I mentioned the use of druge. Do you see what I meant?) stuck to boundaries of meaning. Meet meaning with meaning, and meaning will cease.

 

By the way, if the way I write annoys you, I am writing like this on purpose. .

Edited March 21, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

By the way, if the way I write annoys you, I am writing like this on purpose.

LOL, the 'way you write' doesn't annoy me.. your intention to annoy, doesn't annoy me either.. it's unfortunate that sincerity is such a rare commodity, especially on a forum that intends to explore Taoist perspectives.. i find my compassion reaching-out to novice seekers looking at this forum and hoping to experience some Taoist perspectives.. and, it's mostly games, like you "writing this on purpose".. i'm simply trying to offer a balanced perspective..

You toss around Clarity, Life, Stillness (which you have yet to define except a meditative state of observation, which is why I mentioned the use of druge. Do you see what I meant?) stuck to boundaries of meaning. Meet meaning with meaning, and meaning will cease.

No, i do not understand your meaning.. 'Stillness',as used by me, is the absence of 'mental dialogue' and contrived imagery.. that 'dialogue'/imagery is the voices of our mentors and the recounting of our own past experiences, adding preference and prejudice to our current experience.. it is uninspired 'thought', lacking authenticity and originality.. 'thought' is the distance that separates us from our direct experience of 'Now', hence the expression, "lost in thought"..

 

But, it is apparent that you prefer annoying people with insincere games over sincere communication, so i'll save my efforts for a more balanced communication..

 

Be well..

[Kunlun Enthusiast]

By the way, if the way I write annoys you, I am writing like this on purpose. .

 

Cat's out of the bag! Is that the reason yo started this thread? Man, the big bad Buddhist forum crashed so we need some action, some place to continue talking for ever, first in active voice, then passive, then in symbols, then angrily, and then with smilie, then with sense, sometimes with sense .....so the idea is to keep talking no matter what, keep it coming or somethin like that? I saw the same thing in the old forum. A dude deliberately posts something when everyone's kinda quiet so stir up a conversation and then everyone starts arguing like on reincarnation or something. What was your screen name on that forum? I was the one who joked on Buddha and meth and got kicked

Edited March 21, 2010 by Kunlun Enthusiast

[Lucky7Strikes]

Cat's out of the bag! Is that the reason yo started this thread? Man, the big bad Buddhist forum crashed so we need some action, some place to continue talking for ever, first in active voice, then passive, then in symbols, then angrily, and then with smilie, then with sense, sometimes with sense .....so the idea is to keep talking no matter what, keep it coming or somethin like that? I saw the same thing in the old forum. A dude deliberately posts something when everyone's kinda quiet so stir up a conversation and then everyone starts arguing like on reincarnation or something. What was your screen name on that forum? I was the one who joked on Buddha and meth and got kicked

I present my views and insights. Then someone says something counter to it. I try to understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then I try to figure out the better and more sensical one.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

LOL, the 'way you write' doesn't annoy me.. your intention to annoy, doesn't annoy me either.. it's unfortunate that sincerity is such a rare commodity, especially on a forum that intends to explore Taoist perspectives.. i find my compassion reaching-out to novice seekers looking at this forum and hoping to experience some Taoist perspectives.. and, it's mostly games, like you "writing this on purpose".. i'm simply trying to offer a balanced perspective..

 

No, i do not understand your meaning.. 'Stillness',as used by me, is the absence of 'mental dialogue' and contrived imagery.. that 'dialogue'/imagery is the voices of our mentors and the recounting of our own past experiences, adding preference and prejudice to our current experience.. it is uninspired 'thought', lacking authenticity and originality.. 'thought' is the distance that separates us from our direct experience of 'Now', hence the expression, "lost in thought"..

 

But, it is apparent that you prefer annoying people with insincere games over sincere communication, so i'll save my efforts for a more balanced communication..

 

Be well..

I don't really care about your sincereity. I care about what you leave on this forum. Your words, your message, is all that matters here. Anything else is a mere speculation, an imagination. That's why I write like this.

 

Haha! Your compassion! Hahahahhahaha!

 

As for your stillness,

 

A yogi is about to meditate by the river. He is thirsty so calls out to his disciple for water. But soon he enters deep profound samadhi of no thought. His awareness transcends his surroundings into great bliss. And after a few days, it begins to rain and the river overflows. The yogi suddenly awakes, and screams for water! water! only to realize his body is now half immersed in the river.

 

The stage of no thought is no more profound than that of thought, for thought returns, and sometimes dissolves. All these are fleeting states. True insight arises in thought and no thought. It is constant. There really shouldn't be a preference for thought or no thought. Then, only then, thought or no thought, one simply lives out his destined journey.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Kunlun Enthusiast]

I present my views and insights. Then someone says something counter to it. I try to understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then I try to figure out the better and more sensical one.

 

 

Okay cool man. For some reason that doesn't come across and only the following does. May be I am just missing something.

 

By the way, if the way I write annoys you, I am writing like this on purpose. .

 

Sorry for interrupting your debate. Carry on. I'll come back and check after it grows to say 25 pages.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Okay cool man. For some reason that doesn't come across and only the following does. May be I am just missing something.

 

 

 

Sorry for interrupting your debate. Carry on. I'll come back and check after it grows to say 25 pages.

You can't see beyond personal preference.

 

Ahem*

 

In my (oh yes, very humble) opinion...

Edited March 21, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Marblehead]

I present my views and insights. Then someone says something counter to it. I try to understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then I try to figure out the better and more sensical one.

 

I appreciate and acknowledge that Lucky. True that you and I do not always agree but we have not become so narrow in our views that we stopped talking with each other.

 

I like to test my understandings. The only way I can do that is to present them and see how others respond. I am open for modification to my understandings but I always search for logic first then, it logic is present, I consider if I should incorporate a given thought into my belief system.

 

Peace & Love!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Sorry for interrupting your debate.

No, a debate includes an exchange of ideas, beliefs, knowledge, and evidence.. the purpose of which is arrive at a consensus conclusion.. as a competitive skill, which Lucky may believe he is demonstrating, it still includes the exchange of "ideas, beliefs, knowledge, and evidence", but there is no value in a consensus conclusion, nor in the correctness of the "ideas, beliefs, knowledge, and evidence", as a 'competitive skill' the object is 'superiority and domination'.. so, i don't think we have a 'debate', it seems more like a showcase for Lucky's arrogant insincerity..

 

 

Haha! Your compassion! Hahahahhahaha!

I realize this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but.. you might find it helps reduce the conflict you generate, assuming you have any interest in reducing it..

 

 

I care about what you leave on this forum. Your words, your message, is all that matters here. Anything else is a mere speculation, an imagination. That's why I write like this.

"Words", yours or mine, may just as easily represent 'speculation'.. in fact, i am confident that 'words' never represent 'truth'.. but we do have at least one thing in common:

i find my compassion reaching-out to novice seekers looking at this forum and hoping to experience some Taoist perspectives.

You see, i am also concerned about the words, the message, and what's 'left on this forum'..

 

 

The stage of no thought is no more profound than that of thought,

I agree, without reservation.. thought and no thought co-exist as a balanced perspective.. the intended 'message' regards the balance, as there is little evidence supporting wide-spread appreciation for the benefits of 'stillness'..

 

 

one simply lives out his destined journey.

IF one chooses to believe in 'destiny', they will convince themselves their existence is destined.. others will believe they are part of a co-creative process called "Creation or Evolution", and they will convince themselves of their relationship with that process.. others will believe that are 'illusions' or 'dreams within dreams'. and they will convince themselves... wait, they don't believe they even exist but.. don't tell them they do, it really annoys their non-existentness..

 

The Universe reflects back to the experiencer exactly what they actually believe.. to the degree it is actually believed.. so, while the 'words' say existence is an 'illusion', the 'truth' of the the speaker's beliefs is revealed by their deeds.. they get out of the way of speeding cars, acknowledging the reality of the 'illusion'.. another example of deeds demonstrating the 'truth' of someone's beliefs contrary to the claims of their words: "I am writing like this on purpose.".. indicating freewill and choice, a contradiction to: "one simply lives out his destined journey.".. so, now might be a good time to:

I try to understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then I try to figure out the better and more sensical one.

 

Be well..

[Lucky7Strikes]

I realize this may be a difficult concept for you to grasp, but.. you might find it helps reduce the conflict you generate, assuming you have any interest in reducing it..

True virtue does not know virtue. The fact that you believe you are being compassionate is true arrogance. A sugar coating to your ego.

 

I agree, without reservation.. thought and no thought co-exist as a balanced perspective.. the intended 'message' regards the balance, as there is little evidence supporting wide-spread appreciation for the benefits of 'stillness'..

Even the conceptual boundaries of thought and no thought must be discarded. These are only after thoughts.

 

IF one chooses to believe in 'destiny', they will convince themselves their existence is destined.. others will believe they are part of a co-creative process called "Creation or Evolution", and they will convince themselves of their relationship with that process.. others will believe that are 'illusions' or 'dreams within dreams'. and they will convince themselves... wait, they don't believe they even exist but.. don't tell them they do, it really annoys their non-existentness..

 

The Universe reflects back to the experiencer exactly what they actually believe.. to the degree it is actually believed.. so, while the 'words' say existence is an 'illusion', the 'truth' of the the speaker's beliefs is revealed by their deeds.. they get out of the way of speeding cars, acknowledging the reality of the 'illusion'.. another example of deeds demonstrating the 'truth' of someone's beliefs contrary to the claims of their words: "I am writing like this on purpose.".. indicating freewill and choice, a contradiction to: "one simply lives out his destined journey.".. so, now might be a good time to:

The mind grasps the body, and hence there is birth, and the human. When there is birth, there is death. That is destiny.

 

The phrase "I am writing like this on purpose" can easily be written as "writing like this is being done on purpose." It is an irrelevant point you make. Look over your own writings, it's just as pretentious and pompous.

 

Do not see things is the dichotomy of free will and destiny, the self and no-self, the reason I started this thread is precisely against such thinking, but I don't think you've really read them, so please do before you respond any further.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

I appreciate and acknowledge that Lucky. True that you and I do not always agree but we have not become so narrow in our views that we stopped talking with each other.

 

I like to test my understandings. The only way I can do that is to present them and see how others respond. I am open for modification to my understandings but I always search for logic first then, it logic is present, I consider if I should incorporate a given thought into my belief system.

 

Peace & Love!

 

_/\_

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

True virtue does not know virtue. it's just as pretentious and pompous. A sugar coating to your ego.

There, i think that better describes the image you present on the Forum.. it's your words, projected out and reflected back.. How much more arrogant and pompous is it to cite "True virtue does not know virtue", and contine your blundering attempt at polishing your ego...

I started this thread is precisely against such thinking,

So, my (oh yes, very humble) fellow poster, you should examine your own words before advising others from such an arrogant position, or.. do you apply "True virtue does not know virtue" selectively?

The mind grasps the body, and hence there is birth, and the human. When there is birth, there is death. That is destiny.

That's how you weazle out of your blundering attempts at wisdom? THAT'S destiny?, GREAT!! NOW it makes perfect sense, it's SO obvious....

 

Be well..

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

There, i think that better describes the image you present on the Forum.. it's your words, projected out and reflected back.. How much more arrogant and pompous is it to cite "True virtue does not know virtue", and contine your blundering attempt at polishing your ego...

 

So, my (oh yes, very humble) fellow poster, you should examine your own words before advising others from such an arrogant position, or.. do you apply "True virtue does not know virtue" selectively?

 

That's how you weazle out of your blundering attempts at wisdom? THAT'S destiny?, GREAT!! NOW it makes perfect sense, it's SO obvious....

 

Be well..

The quote is from the Tao Te Ching. It is a warning against the mindset of "I am being compassionate." Boundless compassion does not know compassion.

 

You're getting lost in your imaginations, mere speculations, of who I am, which is irrelevant. Stay to these words. This discussion was about whatever you called "Life" as you identified yourself with it.

 

Why does it even come across that I am advising you? What does it matter if it is me that advises you or whether it is a piece of rock? Do you see the meaning in this? It is absolutely inconsequential.

 

Moreover, you haven't yet made any attempts to understand anything I have written. How do you know it is wisdom or not? Or are you being compassionate and trying to guide the novices on this forum about the Tao? Do you need me to sprinkle some glitter on these words (in my humble opinion, of course) for you to consider them? Do you only listen to the ones who politely shake hands?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

The quote is from the Tao Te Ching. It is a warning against the mindset of "I am being compassionate." Boundless compassion does not know compassion.

Tao Te Ching? a pity you haven't understood it.. regurgitating is not the same as understanding..

You're getting lost in your imaginations, mere speculations, of who I am, which is irrelevant. Stay to these words. This discussion was about whatever you called "Life" as you identified yourself with it.

I'm not getting lost.. you're being defensive and trying to escape the ugliness of your own deeds and words.

Why does it even come across that I am advising you? .....> Stay to these words.

Just a hunch..

Moreover, you haven't yet made any attempts to understand anything I have written.

Cool.. keep telling yourself that.. it's consistent with your inflated self-image.. you believe that because i haven't arrived at the same conclusions as you, and that's poor criteria..

Or are you being compassionate and trying to guide the novices on this forum about the Tao?

I do not intend to 'guide novices'.. i do intend to present a balanced perspective when posters like you assert extreme perspectives as if you had authority.. or spew your poorly interpreted perspectives of the process.. my intention is sincere discussions, from which a novice might choose to experience for themselves, and.. "understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then try to figure out the better and more sensical one.".. a fair approach, eh?.. i don't tell the novice what to believe or how to interpret the classics, good interactive discussion on this forum should inspire self-discovery of these issues.. 'i'm almost sure you'll agree..

Do you need me to sprinkle some glitter on these words (in my humble opinion, of course) for you to consider them? Do you only listen to the ones who politely shake hands?

LOL, nope.. i go at it with fiercely common gutter-language, IF you're sincere.. but, you offer no evidence of sincerity.. lots of sarcasm, condescension, and antagonism, which are tolerable from a sincere perspective, but.. i sense no sincerity.. so, save your 'glitter' for your humility..

 

Be well..

 

PS: i do SO believe in the benefits of the 'Golden Rule', that i assume everyone else does, too.. so, i give back as good as i get, certain that the other wishes to be treated the same.. i can be very accomodating..

[~jK~]

Greetings..

But, it is apparent that you prefer annoying people with insincere games over sincere communication, so i'll save my efforts for a more balanced communication..

 

Does it seem you have a problem with creativity?

As it Does seem you prefer a crystaline objectivity?

...Creativity a maleable original unsubstance New 2u?

Objectivity, the sharp structured dart designed penetrate in a warlike spike=>

...Screw the objective I am here this life to learn aYes

As I pass through my incarnations in every race.

Valuing only what I can carry to new next place.

 

Too much of either, spoils the either

Could it be- that balance is a key to harmony?

[Lucky7Strikes]

Greetings..

 

 

Tao Te Ching? a pity you haven't understood it.. regurgitating is not the same as understanding..

 

I'm not getting lost.. you're being defensive and trying to escape the ugliness of your own deeds and words.

 

Just a hunch..

 

Cool.. keep telling yourself that.. it's consistent with your inflated self-image.. you believe that because i haven't arrived at the same conclusions as you, and that's poor criteria..

 

I do not intend to 'guide novices'.. i do intend to present a balanced perspective when posters like you assert extreme perspectives as if you had authority.. or spew your poorly interpreted perspectives of the process.. my intention is sincere discussions, from which a novice might choose to experience for themselves, and.. "understand why they say what they do. Then think over the two views. Then try to figure out the better and more sensical one.".. a fair approach, eh?.. i don't tell the novice what to believe or how to interpret the classics, good interactive discussion on this forum should inspire self-discovery of these issues.. 'i'm almost sure you'll agree..

LOL, nope.. i go at it with fiercely common gutter-language, IF you're sincere.. but, you offer no evidence of sincerity.. lots of sarcasm, condescension, and antagonism, which are tolerable from a sincere perspective, but.. i sense no sincerity.. so, save your 'glitter' for your humility..

 

Be well..

 

PS: i do SO believe in the benefits of the 'Golden Rule', that i assume everyone else does, too.. so, i give back as good as i get, certain that the other wishes to be treated the same.. i can be very accomodating..

What a waste of words.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

What a waste of words.

Hi Lucky: Thanks for noticing.. i was thinking the same thing.. probably for different reasons, though..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

Well, I have been reading all the posts from both of you so your words haven't been a total waste.

 

I think it is still true that the disagreements between peoples are such that we should, at some point, agree that we disagree on a particular concept and move on. But the discussion is still valid as long as any of the parties still has something to say.

 

Peace & Love!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Marblehead: Your patience is appreciated..

 

Be well..

Edited March 22, 2010 by TzuJanLi