Qi application

[Ya Mu]

"some would work and others wouldn't". Haven't you ever been curious what makes the difference? For someone who studied science, you're not really a curious type...

I didn't know that the energy I would use to spin the paper and the energy I would use to heal someone are not the same energy. Can you tell me about the differences?

 

You know, on a fundamental level, one man can be cured with placebo and another can't. The question is: what makes the difference? It's most likely not the heat.

 

OK, to go into this further here is a story where I finally learned my lesson on this subject: From, A Light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing:

 

...while under the influence of a powerful dark spirit...

"..."Try knocking the bottle off the rail with your qi" That will get their attention." A bottle sat on the rail outside their room, which was about 75 feet away. To try to move it was totally preposterous, but at the time it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I projected qi, but couldn't move the bottle.

"Try again, use your reserves of qi to make the stream more dense, the spirit encouraged, "That should work." Again, this sounded the right thing to do. I gathered my full power, set my INTENT, and projected energy. This time the bottle shook but didn't fall off.

"Good", the spirit said,"Try again". I tried several times and each time the bottle shook, but I could not knock it down.

This type of projection costs a lot of energy. In fact, the energy loss was the whole reason the evil spirit was encouraging me to do this. He wanted me to weaken myself..."

[fizix]

I don't waste my time on commenting you, you clearly don't belong here.

Yes you are correct! I clearly do not belong here, in this thread; I do not waste my time in the pursuit of ego inflating activities, especially ones that are fruitless in more ways than one! I wish you all the best in your endeavors to become a Jedi Knight!

Besides, you already have such great mind power! You have the ability, against the face of overwhelming evidence, to continue to believe something that is simply not! Your ego is your undoing, remember that and one day you will be free!

[Apech]

Heat transfers by conduction and convection as well as radiation. If the hands are warm they will create convection currents in the air which could explain the spinning, also if the radiation from the hands heats one side and not the other this could also cause rotation.

 

I am not saying it is so - just that it is possible according to the laws of physics.

 

Suggest trying the glass container and if it still works then you could claim some kind of prize for proving that qi has a physical effect. Possibly Nobel prize if you can construct a theory to prove it.

[baiqi]

@ Athanor:

 

Well, I just don't have enough knowledge of physics to say what kind of energy goes out of my hand...I just know that there is something...

 

By the way, qi is often translated into "energy" which is correct but not complete: other Chinese words would fit the definition.

 

@ fizix:

 

I don't give a shit about proving anything to others. I want proofs, but only for myself. And I am not really interested in gaining superpowers either. (Although if it were possible...I would use them )

[Athanor]

s HA! Didn't explain it well I guess; yes I know (to my satisfaction) what worked and what didn't. Most of those things use, as already pointed out to you, convection currents from heat. To actually move objects with external qi projection requires cultivation of energies and intent that is IMO such a waste of time, and takes the practitioner in the totally wrong direction for spiritual and personal growth.

 

Yes, to continue with what I am trying to convey above. The energy required to move an object is very dense and of a low vibrational energy. To heal others and actually manipulate energy on the quantum level we have to raise our energy body vibrational rate to a Higher Level to be able to actually manipulate the fabric of the universe. This is a lifetime pursuit and we would be going backwards to pursue the lower level densities.

I thought high vibrational energy is more dense. You know, when frequency is higher, wavelength is shorter, and more waves appear within the same distance than in low frequency waves - i.e. it's a denser vibration. Oh well... maybe the esoteric approach to "dense" and "vibration" is different.

I think manipulating qi is also happening on the quantum level, whether you use it for healing or not. If you use the energy which is the root of all energies (and qi probably is, if the old scripts are correct), then it is certainly operating on the quantum level.

 

I thought the basic principles in Tao are jin, qi, and shen. I thought that the mind leads the qi and when the qi is focused then it gathers the essence and substance will be formed - thus physical change will occur. If it isn't so, then how does physical change occur through qi manipulation? And if it is so then why would there be a difference in moving something with qi, and healing someone with qi? I still don't understand this difference, although you seemingly explained it with some "low energy - high energy" stuff, but let's face it, those kind of things don't really say anything.

 

 

You know, I find it really interesting how people deny the importance or even the value of such abilities like manipulating things with your qi.

First of all, healing is manipulating, thus healing with qi is also manipulating matter with qi. If you accept this, then accept it fully.

Second, what's your problem with playing? Look around in nature. All animals learn with playing, human children learn with playing. Playing was "invented" by nature so that young living creatures can prepare for the real life experiences. It's a valuable part of life. Yet, you behave as if it would be something degenerated which should be wiped out of the entire universe, from everyone's lives. Well, it's not something like this. On one hand, playing with qi helps you to develop a strong ability to manipulate it by your own will, regardless of the circumstances. It's like when you practice to meditate - the more you practice, the less distraction will actually bother you during it. On the other hand, when you know how to manipulate the vital energy, the root of your whole being and the universe, you definitely get something what is far beyond your own imagination. You will get an insight into things, how they work, why they work like that, what they do and how they do it. This is really an unnecessary knowledge if you're concerned about reaching enlightenment and you don't care about anything else in the whole world. But I think knowing such things is really fun. And it is indeed valuable. And I believe many people who consider this kind of endeavor a waste of time merely do that because they don't have the ability to do it, and they'd instantly change their minds if they'd figure out how to do it. Because everyone likes to play.

[Athanor]

OK, to go into this further here is a story where I finally learned my lesson on this subject: From, A Light Warrior's Guide to High Level Energy Healing:

 

...while under the influence of a powerful dark spirit...

"..."Try knocking the bottle off the rail with your qi" That will get their attention." A bottle sat on the rail outside their room, which was about 75 feet away. To try to move it was totally preposterous, but at the time it seemed like a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I projected qi, but couldn't move the bottle.

"Try again, use your reserves of qi to make the stream more dense, the spirit encouraged, "That should work." Again, this sounded the right thing to do. I gathered my full power, set my INTENT, and projected energy. This time the bottle shook but didn't fall off.

"Good", the spirit said,"Try again". I tried several times and each time the bottle shook, but I could not knock it down.

This type of projection costs a lot of energy. In fact, the energy loss was the whole reason the evil spirit was encouraging me to do this. He wanted me to weaken myself..."

Nice.

1st of all, I don't believe in evil spirits. I don't believe that there is such thing as true evil.

2nd, this sounded like those biblical stories in which people were told not to go against the Church, but they did, and then they suffered because of it. This is only to avoid people to do something.

3rd, forgive me if I don't accept reality from a WRITER and his/her IMAGINED story.

 

Although such stories may seem to be completely real sometimes, let's not forget that everyone can write down in a book whatever one wants without consequences. You are allowed to lie in your own book.

[Athanor]

Heat transfers by conduction and convection as well as radiation. If the hands are warm they will create convection currents in the air which could explain the spinning, also if the radiation from the hands heats one side and not the other this could also cause rotation.

 

I am not saying it is so - just that it is possible according to the laws of physics.

 

Suggest trying the glass container and if it still works then you could claim some kind of prize for proving that qi has a physical effect. Possibly Nobel prize if you can construct a theory to prove it.

I was thinking about this too. But if you look at many of these videos, you'll find that they don't put there their hands carefully, they do it more accidentally and their hand's position is mostly different. They don't try to create convectional route. Not to mention the ones in which the man puts both his hands on the both sides of the paper, thus there would be two convections towards the opposite directions.

I'm still looking for the one video with the glass...

[Athanor]

Yes you are correct! I clearly do not belong here, in this thread; I do not waste my time in the pursuit of ego inflating activities, especially ones that are fruitless in more ways than one! I wish you all the best in your endeavors to become a Jedi Knight!

Besides, you already have such great mind power! You have the ability, against the face of overwhelming evidence, to continue to believe something that is simply not! Your ego is your undoing, remember that and one day you will be free!

Are you talking about other people's strong egos because then you feel as if you wouldn't be driven by your own? Think again. You are clearly driven by your own. If you remind others to their weaknesses, that won't make you strong, but will clearly show your own defects.

[Ya Mu]

...

I was trying to help you, but it seems that you, who cannot manipulate qi, know far more than someone who has been doing it for over 30 years. Some people cannot be helped. You are going to believe what you want to so have at it.

 

It's easy for someone who hasn't a clue to accuse someone else of lying because they have no other argument than "I don't believe". This "I don't believe" is due to simple inexperience. I wrote of true experiences, and I took the time to print it here just to attempt to help YOU. For you to accuse me of lying is a personal attack. My understanding is that personal attacks will get a person banned from the forum.

[Athanor]

I was trying to help you, but it seems that you, who cannot manipulate qi, know far more than someone who has been doing it for over 30 years. Some people cannot be helped. You are going to believe what you want to so have at it.

 

It's easy for someone who hasn't a clue to accuse someone else of lying because they have no other argument than "I don't believe". This "I don't believe" is due to simple inexperience. I wrote of true experiences, and I took the time to print it here just to attempt to help YOU. For you to accuse me of lying is a personal attack. My understanding is that personal attacks will get a person banned from the forum.

Well, let me just explain some things.

 

1. I didn't know you wrote that book. Michael Lomax and Ya Mu don't seem to be the same name. Sorry if I should have known. When you wrote you finally learned your lesson from there, I thought you meant by reading that part of the book.

2. I didn't write "you lie", I wrote "you are allowed to lie". It means that the reader may decide whether what you wrote is truth or fiction, because you aren't obliged to write the truth.

3. We all follow what we believe, even you. I'm not unique in this. "Evil spirit" experiences can be most likely caused by many psychological dysfunctions and can be cured in the 21st century. However, I must admit, there are also unexplained phenomena which might be caused by something that is yet considered as supernatural.

4. Literature is neither exact, nor science. If I handle it as unscientific, it's not my fault, you should have expected this when you first started to write.

 

For your consideration about this "I don't believe" thing, let me just remind you that humanity was kept in darkness and fear because of their belief. Having the desire and will to doubt is what raised mankind out of the middle ages. You should be thankful for it instead of blaming one for his doubt.

 

Don't think that I just say "I don't believe this" to anything. But I've seen many people misleading and misguiding thousands with "angels" and "evil spirits" and "good spirits", yet, no one else has seen those creatures except for those people who made millions by selling the stories about them. I didn't say you're this kind of person. I just said that the belief which you value so much leaded to a very reasonable doubt about such stories, books, and authors. This is definitely not my fault.

 

Overhanging someone with being banned out of the forum is indeed a personal attack. But I don't care.

[fizix]

ha-ha, see where your stubbornness got you? You managed to disrespect one of the most knowledgeable/helpful/accomplished practitioners on this forum with more real world experience in the matter than years you have probably lived. It is amusing your OP contains a specific question "how can you do it?" And you were attempted to be helped over and over, but as was said, someone who believes something strong enough will not be swayed no matter what. Oh, and in a way, good for you - you have not advanced to any stage in which one is prone to the possible intermingling with spirits, evil or good - perhaps you should continue doing what you're doing to keep at a low vibrational frequency so you can stay in your "comfortable/everything-you-know-is-right REALITY". sure, you're right there is no "Evil Tao" or "TRUE evil", but you expel the possibilities of that which you have not experienced, and that is why you fail.

[h.uriahr]

http://www.whitetigerkungfu.com/video_presentation2.htm

[Athanor]

I figured out a way how to fake the spinning

[Marblehead]

I figured out a way how to fake the spinning

 

Now that's an interesting statement.

 

... to fake the spinning. Do you mean that it really isn't spinning but it looks like it is spinning?

 

Sorry, I'm just trying to have a little fun here.

 

Peace & Love!

[Athanor]

Now that's an interesting statement.

 

... to fake the spinning. Do you mean that it really isn't spinning but it looks like it is spinning?

 

Sorry, I'm just trying to have a little fun here.

 

Peace & Love!

LOL

I said it wrong

I mean to make it seem like if it would spin because of some mystical energy but actually it's not

In fact, I also know a way how to do the same trick under a glass jar

[Marblehead]

LOL

I said it wrong

I mean to make it seem like if it would spin because of some mystical energy but actually it's not

In fact, I also know a way how to do the same trick under a glass jar

 

 

Hehehe. I love illusions and delusions. They allow me to remember how easily my mind can play tricks on me. And worse yet, how easily others can play tricks on me.

 

So how did you do it, hold a candle under the table to produce the heat for energy?

 

Peace & Love!

[Sloppy Zhang]

If you don't think that qi projection or moving stuff using telekinesis or some other method is worth the time, then say your peace and get out.

 

I find it funny how so many people are like, "haha, your ego wants to do this stuff, get over your ego." Then they keep responding and trying to prove why their opinion is right. Say your peace and move on. If all you do is repeat yourself trying to prove how/why your opinion is right, through whatever supposed logic or some kind of personal anecdotes, well, that seems pretty ego driven.

 

While it is always interesting to take part in a debate involving constructed arguments, and while it's great to hear the stories and personal experiences of those who have gone before, the ways in which they are said and why they are said seem not so separated from someone who wants to move a psi wheel.

 

 

On top of that, there are MANY practical reasons for why you would want to project qi. If you want to make a sandwich, but are busy working on the computer, you can make a sandwich by psychically moving the ingredients. How is that not practical? If you are in a wreck and there is a car that has pinned someone and you need to get them out, psychically being able to move the car seems like a very practical thing to do. seriously, if you can't think of any practical reasons for being able to move something without physically touching something, read a good sci-fi book or watch some movies. Expand your imagination

[Athanor]

If you don't think that qi projection or moving stuff using telekinesis or some other method is worth the time, then say your peace and get out.

 

Expand your imagination

Finally someone understands Thank you!

However, I can't recall any proofs from those who I didn't agree with...

[Athanor]

THE SOLUTION:

First I'd like to tell you all that I expected more from you people on this forum. I haven't faced so much ignorance and animosity for years. I explained why I wasn't satisfied with any of your answers, but you just kept saying things without reason, without explanation, and without experimenting with this very-very simple thing. It would just have taken 3 minutes from your life to check whether your ideas were correct or not, but NO! And yet, you called me ego-driven, and I was the one who almost got banned out of here.

Then again, I remind you, NONE of you answered the question HOW to do it. I clearly pointed out that I don't ask the theory, I ask the practical application. But did you tell it? NO!

 

I am very disappointed that a forum dealing with spirituality does not take spirituality seriously; does not want to learn; does not want to develop; does not want to experiment. You just tell things to each other and expect the other to believe, like Ya Mu, or you just insult others, like fizix, for no reason at all.

It's a shame.

 

And here I am sharing with you the knowledge I received from a physicist who was open-minded, educated and enthusiastic enough to think about it and share his reasonable thoughts.

 

Solution #1:

When you put your hand near the paper, you create a quarter tube. If you blow into your hand (not on the paper but into the tube, the space between your hand and the paper), if you blow in a very thin line, perhaps through a straw, then you create an air current which will pull the paper's one side with itself, thus spins the paper. Blow from about the height of the paper to avoid downward streaming air to sway the paper. With two straws you can do the same thing with both hands, with two objects. With one more person behind the camera you can do it as long as you can breath...

 

Solution #2:

Take tiny metal pieces and glue them under the paper.

Put a jar on the top of the paper just to avoid air currents.

Take an adequately strong magnet and ask someone to move it under the table in a circle. If the magnet is not too strong to pull the paper down from the pin, but is strong enough to affect the metal on the paper, then it will spin it.

 

 

Although these applications don't involve qi energy, they are still achievable. Although I wanted to learn how to use qi energy to affect things, at least I learned how this experiment can be faked.

Do you know why this is good?

Because now I KNOW.

And do you know what I avoid with this?

BLIND FAITH.

 

But you just stick to that if you will.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Athanor

[Aetherous]

Rawr.

[fizix]

..

Edited March 18, 2010 by Mal
Insulting post

[Athanor]

In case you haven't noticed, heat was not the answer.

You might want to read the insult policy reminder topic before posting once again.

[Ya Mu]

If you don't think that qi projection or moving stuff using telekinesis or some other method is worth the time, then say your peace and get out.

 

I find it funny how so many people are like, "haha, your ego wants to do this stuff, get over your ego." Then they keep responding and trying to prove why their opinion is right. Say your peace and move on. If all you do is repeat yourself trying to prove how/why your opinion is right, through whatever supposed logic or some kind of personal anecdotes, well, that seems pretty ego driven.

 

While it is always interesting to take part in a debate involving constructed arguments, and while it's great to hear the stories and personal experiences of those who have gone before, the ways in which they are said and why they are said seem not so separated from someone who wants to move a psi wheel.

 

 

On top of that, there are MANY practical reasons for why you would want to project qi. If you want to make a sandwich, but are busy working on the computer, you can make a sandwich by psychically moving the ingredients. How is that not practical? If you are in a wreck and there is a car that has pinned someone and you need to get them out, psychically being able to move the car seems like a very practical thing to do. seriously, if you can't think of any practical reasons for being able to move something without physically touching something, read a good sci-fi book or watch some movies. Expand your imagination

Well, we know who that was directed toward. Imagine the audacity, answering someone's question, then, when asked for more clarification, giving a personal example. Yeah, I think those types should leave this thread as well.

Could it possibly be, that someone has been there done that, pursued countless hours of experimentation with physicality and qi? And could it be that someone wishes to help others with the benefit of knowledge of this countless waste of time & energy? So that they may can rise above this and really understand energetics?

Na - probably not, who would believe it?

[fizix]

Heat is the answer, just not your answer

[remainder deleted]

Edited March 18, 2010 by Mal
insult policy

[Athanor]

If Lao Tzu would see these exalted, spiritually developed, much achieved and much experienced people acting like a prig or a peevish child, I bet he wouldn't bother to write a single word into his little book.

 

If someone might still have a description on how to do the spinning with qi energy then I'd be glad to read it. Otherwise I consider this topic closed.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Athanor