Qi application

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well, we know who that was directed toward. Imagine the audacity, answering someone's question, then, when asked for more clarification, giving a personal example. Yeah, I think those types should leave this thread as well.

Could it possibly be, that someone has been there done that, pursued countless hours of experimentation with physicality and qi? And could it be that someone wishes to help others with the benefit of knowledge of this countless waste of time & energy? So that they may can rise above this and really understand energetics?

Na - probably not, who would believe it?

 

My post, like heat, was not directed at someone, rather, it radiated out to the forum

 

But look, no insult to you or any of the other wonderful people on this forum, but sharing personal experience is not enough to convince someone to change their goals.

 

I had certain goals in my life, and as I grew up, those goals changed, for very specific reasons, ranging from something as small as thinking over it in the shower, to as large as experiencing an event involving multiple people. So if I see someone who is at a place I used to be, I will tell them, hey, you know, there is a bigger world out there, don't get so caught up in this stuff.

 

But by the same token, I remember how I was at that stage. I know that just telling someone isn't enough to get them to "see the light". Then again, my truth derived from my own experiences might not be the same truth that someone else gets from their experiences. Perhaps my experiences say that pursuing certain things are stupid, while other people find that pursuing things are necessary, even after years. Or maybe we all need to go through that stage to get to the next one. Or maybe there is no set progression of stages.

 

So again, while I appreciate all of the personal anecdotes of the story (and especially yours, Ya Mu, I know it might seem like I'm always calling you out on your posts, but I have actually purchased your book and thoroughly enjoy it, and am thinking about looking more into your stillness-movement qigong), I still feel that in many cases the undercurrent of the comment is still very ego driven.

 

"I have been where you are for longer, and now I am even further down the road. You should believe what I have said because I know what's what and you don't. If you ignore me that is you being stupid and selfish."

 

In some cases that is WORSE because you are older and should know better.

 

 

 

But in any case, I have said more than my peace on the subject. I'm sorry if it seems like my posts have been directed at you, Ya Mu, because I especially like your posts, your blog, your book, and all of the experiences that you share- they inspire me to keep going on my journey. My previous post was just something I have noticed here and there.

 

So, again, more than my peace on the subject, be good everyone

Edited March 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Marblehead]

Na - probably not, who would believe it?

 

Well, I'm still with you Ya Mu. You just keep on keeping on, Okay?

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

And I would like to add at this point that just because one person has a specific result from a particular event does not mean, by any standard, that everyone will have the identical result. We all are different in our own beautiful way and we all experience events in our own particular way.

 

What works for one person may not work for another. What is good for one person might be the worst possible thing for another.

 

Please let us remember that we are all different in our own special way.

 

And to criticize anyone because they are different is never productive. It is far better, I think, to question differences so that we can better understand why they are different.

 

Peace & Love!

[Ya Mu]

My post, like heat, was not directed at someone, rather, it radiated out to the forum

 

But look, no insult to you or any of the other wonderful people on this forum, but sharing personal experience is not enough to convince someone to change their goals.

 

I had certain goals in my life, and as I grew up, those goals changed, for very specific reasons, ranging from something as small as thinking over it in the shower, to as large as experiencing an event involving multiple people. So if I see someone who is at a place I used to be, I will tell them, hey, you know, there is a bigger world out there, don't get so caught up in this stuff.

 

But by the same token, I remember how I was at that stage. I know that just telling someone isn't enough to get them to "see the light". Then again, my truth derived from my own experiences might not be the same truth that someone else gets from their experiences. Perhaps my experiences say that pursuing certain things are stupid, while other people find that pursuing things are necessary, even after years. Or maybe we all need to go through that stage to get to the next one. Or maybe there is no set progression of stages.

 

So again, while I appreciate all of the personal anecdotes of the story (and especially yours, Ya Mu, I know it might seem like I'm always calling you out on your posts, but I have actually purchased your book and thoroughly enjoy it, and am thinking about looking more into your stillness-movement qigong), I still feel that in many cases the undercurrent of the comment is still very ego driven.

 

"I have been where you are for longer, and now I am even further down the road. You should believe what I have said because I know what's what and you don't. If you ignore me that is you being stupid and selfish."

 

In some cases that is WORSE because you are older and should know better.

 

 

 

But in any case, I have said more than my peace on the subject. I'm sorry if it seems like my posts have been directed at you, Ya Mu, because I especially like your posts, your blog, your book, and all of the experiences that you share- they inspire me to keep going on my journey. My previous post was just something I have noticed here and there.

 

So, again, more than my peace on the subject, be good everyone

You have an interesting take on it. Thanks for the perspective.

 

A teacher has 2 choices. Sit back and do nothing, or say what he knows. Do not mistake calm confidence and knowledge as ego boosting.

 

Right now I choose to share, in the hopes that one in 10,000 will have a boost their awakening. At another time I may do like another teacher and build a house a mile in front of my actual house yet tell everyone I live in the first house. I have not always been public and at some point I will not be public anymore. In fact, I did hide out some years back for 4 years. It is very easy to confuse confidence and ego. I don't think I have ever posted on here that a person should "throw away the ego". The ego is a part of us just like our right arm. The key is to not be controlled by the ego but let the real you be the controller.

I was not trying to offend you or anyone else in any manner. But sit back and watch nonsense (know it because I went though same nonsense) unfold without saying anything I will not. Think about all the newcomers that read threads like this and say "Oh Boy, I want to try that." I personally don't think humanity has the time for such nonsense. I do realize everyone is going to do whatever they want but I remember a certain time in my life where a teacher said something that changed my life even though at the time I said to myself "Such bullshit!"

Also, I have never told my students or anyone else to actually believe everything I said simply because I said it. I have ALWAYS said that these things will become self-evident with the practice; believe because YOU know - not because I know.

 

You will do well with your practice - keep it up. You make good points with your posts.

[Athanor]

I personally don't think humanity has the time for such nonsense.

I personally don't think that you have the right to make a decision in the name of humanity, or to decide what is nonsense and what isn't.

Flying was also considered nonsense once, and people who merely believed something without further research and development, they were the ones who considered it nonsense.

 

I think true spiritual mastery begins with letting others do their own mistakes. Someone said once that everyone has the right to be stupid. If you think about your own life, you will probably see that you didn't develop although you made failures but you did because you made failures. And that experience cannot be replaced with teaching or mere belief. You of all people, with so much experience, should know how important this is, and that you cannot protect people from failures because those are the things which will help them to develop. Instead, people should fall into traps, do mistakes, and suffer the consequences, and a master should preferably be there to help them understand what happened, instead of avoiding it to happen. IMO.

 

I still think, according to your posts here, that you expect people too much to believe what you say. I am glad, however, that the animosity-part is over, and I'd gladly continue a discussion about this in a peaceful manner if you like.

[Ya Mu]

...I personally don't think that you have the right to make a decision in the name of humanity, or to decide what is nonsense and what isn't.

...

preferably be there to help them understand what happened, instead of avoiding it to happen. IMO.

 

..

Reading what you just wrote, it is OK for you to express an opinion but not for me to.

 

IMO, usually young men are not willing to listen to any advice, such is the way. But to some, the right thing said or done can be a catalyst, which is also the way.

And ... I have not held any animosity towards you or anyone else.

 

Good luck with your practice, if you have one. If not, try finding a teacher to help you.

[Mal]

 

I have one of those somewhere very cool little desk ornament. Re: moving things with energy there are Egely Wheels which I started a thread about to see if anyone had played with one. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13906-egely-wheels/page__p__179936entry179936 but probably the coolest example I've seen recently is vortex's .sig

[Seth Ananda]

Fizix (to me)you are coming across as a condescending 12 year old pumped up on Ritalin.

Please Fizix read your original High Horse holier than thou Post and then your reply, where you denounce anything that builds the ego, and notice the Massive Ego that is already there.

 

When you offer your Sagely advice in a way that demands that he accept your authority, and then he dares to have his own opinion, and you act all hurt and rejected, and accuse him of being young and inexperienced (which he is)and try to make him feel stupid or guilty...?

Whats the deal?

I personally think you owe him an apology for trying to enforce a teacher student relationship he hasn't agreed to.

 

Thanks Sloppy Zhang for adding some sanity to this thread.

 

Athanor, Go for it. Just because a skeptic can set up tricks doesnt mean all demonstrations are tricks. That White Tiger thing looked cool. Have you seen Johny Chang Doing that stuff with his student? Fizix should probably give him a lecture, By Putting him self in the Teacher position (without you agreement) and talking down to you he is trying to take energy from you to strengthen his own Ego, even though Fizix would never do that.

 

Love Seth.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Seth Ananda

[Athanor]

Well you certainly put a smile on my face

Thanks for the post.

 

Maybe not all demonstrations are fake. Maybe it can be done with qi energy too. But I wonder how to learn it, if not on a place where lots of highly qualified people gather together to share knowledge...

[Ya Mu]

zzzz

Edited March 19, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Seth Ananda]

You are so far off base. Please re-read the full thread of posts.

The OP asked a question to which I did my best to answer as well as several other people did their best to answer. Then the OP basically tells everyone they are stupid and accuses me of lying - and - it turns out he was not looking for an answer and simply wanted attention. So I have been attempting to give him that attention.

 

What the hell is going on here that you come in , don't even read the thread (or if you did you certainly missed the whole conversation) and start throwing out accusations?

 

I tried to give the benefit of real experience with energetics and I stand by everything I said as something to ATTEMPT to help someone. Now I am beginning to believe that no one is looking for real help. And for you to say what you just did, is, in my opinion, doing an extreme disservice to any beginner to intermediate practitioner that reads this thread.

 

 

And this statement is pure bullshit and damn insulting.

Ya mu I am sorry It came off so abrasive. I do not know how to properly caption peoples quotes from other pages, and I think I bundled you to much into Fizix's attitude as your first reply was agreeing with part of his first reply.

 

You were much more "the way I see it..." or "IMO" than I gave you credit for.

 

But still I do not believe I was entirely unfounded in a small percentage of what I was saying. This is why:

Fizix said:

 

ahahaha this old trick...i am not denying the possible application of qi in anyway, but this trick in particular is done from the hand's heat emission, do your research arm chair scientists. Athanor, I'm sorry but your theory as to why heat isn't a factor is fundamentally flawed and laughable to say the least. I'd suggest you stop worrying about a physical proof/demonstration to show your friends your "power" and focus on more worthwhile goals that do not inflate and perpetuate the ego.

 

 

As I see it there is already an Absolutist, Authoritarian and downright condescending tone in his statement.

I Feel that in this communication tug of war to be Right, and to Take a position above someone else, once someone Has started putting someone else down, It often starts a frenzy of activity with anyone else jumping on that agrees with the aggressors perspective.

That was probably not your Intention at all and again I am Sorry If I miss read you.

 

But here is your Reply:

 

View Postfizix, on 16 March 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

... I'd suggest you stop worrying about a physical proof/demonstration to show your friends your "power" and focus on more worthwhile goals ...

 

100% agree. Qi emission is for higher level goals such as healing others. No sense in wasting energy on toys. IMO the above example is heat and not qi.

 

I Feel there is still a small element here Of you joining Fizix, and telling Athonar how it is...

100% agree. Qi emission is for higher level goals such as healing others. No sense in wasting energy on toys.

 

And there stills feels to me like there Is a subtle -I am older and wiser so you need to listen to me - quality to your later posts,

 

I think the rest is my over reaction to Fizix and then a miss reading of your reply to someone else which I thought was directed at Ath.

 

Respect and Good will, and I really do like what you contribute here... Thanks for being here.

 

Seth.

 

P.S. if you dig up my older posts you will probably find crazy violations of what I have been describing as a better way to communicate...

[Ya Mu]

Ya mu I am sorry It came off so abrasive. I do not know how to properly caption peoples quotes from other pages, and I think I bundled you to much into Fizix's attitude as your first reply was agreeing with part of his first reply.

 

You were much more "the way I see it..." or "IMO" than I gave you credit for.

 

But still I do not believe I was entirely unfounded in a small percentage of what I was saying. This is why:

Fizix said:

 

ahahaha this old trick...i am not denying the possible application of qi in anyway, but this trick in particular is done from the hand's heat emission, do your research arm chair scientists. Athanor, I'm sorry but your theory as to why heat isn't a factor is fundamentally flawed and laughable to say the least. I'd suggest you stop worrying about a physical proof/demonstration to show your friends your "power" and focus on more worthwhile goals that do not inflate and perpetuate the ego.

 

 

As I see it there is already an Absolutist, Authoritarian and downright condescending tone in his statement.

I Feel that in this communication tug of war to be Right, and to Take a position above someone else, once someone Has started putting someone else down, It often starts a frenzy of activity with anyone else jumping on that agrees with the aggressors perspective.

That was probably not your Intention at all and again I am Sorry If I miss read you.

 

But here is your Reply:

 

View Postfizix, on 16 March 2010 - 01:18 PM, said:

... I'd suggest you stop worrying about a physical proof/demonstration to show your friends your "power" and focus on more worthwhile goals ...

 

100% agree. Qi emission is for higher level goals such as healing others. No sense in wasting energy on toys. IMO the above example is heat and not qi.

 

I Feel there is still a small element here Of you joining Fizix, and telling Athonar how it is...

100% agree. Qi emission is for higher level goals such as healing others. No sense in wasting energy on toys.

 

And there stills feels to me like there Is a subtle -I am older and wiser so you need to listen to me - quality to your later posts,

 

I think the rest is my over reaction to Fizix and then a miss reading of your reply to someone else which I thought was directed at Ath.

 

Respect and Good will, and I really do like what you contribute here... Thanks for being here.

 

Seth.

 

P.S. if you dig up my older posts you will probably find crazy violations of what I have been describing as a better way to communicate...

 

Everyone has an opinion. Makes for diversity, eh? And of course I am older - the wiser part is something that takes a lifetime.

I edited my previous post.