Are you an old soul?

[Gerard]

I have experienced human life many times before the current one. How about you?

 

Let's start first by giving some background information:

 

1. Infant souls

 

To our eyes, Infant Soul lifetimes look pretty rough. They are often short. Famine, plagues, drought, flooding, hurricanes, earthquakes, tigers, bears, poisonous snakes and combat are experienced along with every other survival threat imaginable.

 

On the positive side, being so fresh from the Tao can give a mystical flavor to Infant Souls. They resonate closely with nature and many times feel not individuation but great oneness with everyone in their family or tribe. They can be intuitive and earthy in a simple, unquestioning way. They have the knack, all too soon forgotten, for living in the moment.

 

The intellectual center does not become fully opened in this phase, so there isn't yet much feeling for ethics or personal morality. The Infant Soul has to be taught what is right and wrong. Even a highly intelligent person may seem dull or not quite pulled together with his or her thinking.

 

Cooking and eating are strictly exercises in survival, not even close to being opportunities for optimizing pleasure. Love or sexuality will be experienced on the level of lust. Questions like, "How can I get him (or her) to like me?" basically do not arise unless it becomes a survival issue. Survival is what is important, and whatever needs to be done for survival is done. The Infant Soul can sometimes be driven to violence or extreme self-protective behavior by a merely unfamiliar happening.

 

Infant Souls tend to cluster around the equator because the constant climate makes some aspects of survival more simple. Rural Guatamala, El Salvador, Honduras, Sri Lanka, Borneo, New Guinea, the Amazon basin and much of Ethiopia and Sudan are areas with predominantly Infant Souls; Iraq and Iran have them in increasing numbers.

 

Our society is ordinarily too perplexing and complex in its demands to be a place Infant Souls feel comfortable choosing. When found in the United States, which is rare, they will generally gravitate towards less populated, "backwoods" areas. Infant Souls will not tend to seek regular employment because it is too complicated and involving to handle. Living on the fringes of society, they are often viewed by the rest of the population as inept or slightly out of tune.

 

Infant Souls rarely come into the spotlight except through notoriety brought about by heavy karma-creating lifetimes. Richard Ramirez, the California serial murderer who became known as the Nightstalker, exemplifies that type of celebrity. He is a late Infant Soul enmeshed in a lifetime of intense experience and intense karma formation. Willie Horton, the Massachusetts prisoner who escaped while on a weekend furlough and went on to rape a woman and stab her then-fiance, is another karmic Infant Soul who, with his actions, called into question the wisdom of Governor Dukakis' liberal prison reforms. With his Stockton, California, schoolyard massacre, Patrick Purdy, another Infant Soul, gave new fervor to the gun control debate...

 

 

2. Baby souls

 

There are seven discrete parts within each of the soul ages, each taking somewhere between one to ten lifetimes for completion. Thus when individuals are complete with all seven levels of Infant, they have probably averaged twenty or thirty lifetimes. At this point their consciousness will start to explore the early Baby Soul process.

 

Since there is now a little experience on the earth, more sophistication and less fear are found in the individual, though the world is still experienced as a scary place. Survival has been worked out; this is a time to get civilized and be proud of it, a time of demonstrating you can do it right.

 

Structure helps Baby Souls to feel comfortable in the world. They want to be directed and therefore seek out higher authorities who are willing to lay out clear rules for them. As a small example of this, they would rarely defend their child to the school principal, but push to make the child act acceptably to the teachers and administration. Sometimes a Baby Soul will seek out - even again and again - discipline from the prison system as a way to civilize himself. This soul age will hold traditional religious leaders in esteem, turn doctors into gods, and likely feel their country, their army, and certain politicians, can do no wrong.

 

Traditions, rituals, and law and order provide a welcome sense of security. "That's the rule and that's what we'll do," is typical thinking . They make sure your car is not parked in front of their house and that their lawn is mowed and sprinkled. In a dogmatic, black-and-white way, they know right from wrong. Usually conscientiously good citizens, they can be counted on to do the "right" thing. This is also the soul age with the greatest propensity to long-term grudge holding...

 

 

3. Young souls

 

Having mastered the Infant and Baby Soul issues of survival, discipline and order, the essence is now looking to see how powerful it can become in the world.

 

Independence and the ability to get what one wants out of life are the driving force of the Young Soul stage. Seizing what the physical plane has to offer, vying to gain positions of prominence, power and great wealth, causes this to become the most competitive period in the whole cycle of lifetimes. Those who are expressing themselves from a Young Soul perceptivity will tend towards a sort of tape measure mentality that makes them monitor who among them has the hottest investments, the most lavish parties, the most important friends, the greatest weekly aerobic output, the tallest building, fastest motorcycle, broadest shoulders, thinnest hips or heaviest diamonds. The most powerful places in the world--Japan, Hong Kong, Germany, Israel, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Canada and the United States--all express a strong Young Soul perceptivity. Everybody growing up in these places, regardless of soul age, will receive Young Soul imprinting or conditioning about how to act, think, look, and feel in order to be a success. Japan is now the example par excellence of this: an extremely competitive, focused society where even having fun looks competitive. Often, there's no time off on the way up!...

 

 

4. Mature souls

 

By the end of the Young Soul phase, an uneasiness arises that something is amiss. All the wealth, power and acclaim aren't quite enough; profits and winning no longer have transcendental value.

 

Thus begins the search of the Mature Soul period. The questions "Who am I? Why am I here?" are asked with frequency in these lives. These are trying, intense times; emotions open up, boundaries between people break down. Seeing another person's point of view becomes possible as people become deeply immersed in relationship issues. Suddenly it's clear everybody has feelings, and these feelings are usually either interesting or unavoidable. One of the reasons Young Souls are able to direct so much energy towards success is that their inner lives aren't calling for attention. This allows their energy to flow easily after externals. Not so in the Mature period. It is a stirred-up, introspective time. There is more emotional centering here, more intensity, more schizophrenia, more pain, more suicide, more love, more sensuality, and probably more drugs to intensify it all than in any other period. Boy George, Sean Penn, Richard Burton and Marlon Brando have (or had) lives that illustrate this tendency toward immoderation, Sally Field, while pregnant with her third child, was quoted as saying, "It's scary to think that there will be another human being in the world that I will love that much." Her lament embodies the typical Mature Soul intensification of feeling.

 

Creativity flows. Philosophy and art come into prominence. Illusion and distortion of reality are inevitable as a person opens up because there is not a clear path nor an easy way to sort through all the feelings. Nothing is so solid as in the Baby and Young phases. Being flexible is not easy. Until the last couple of decades our culture provided few guideposts for this vexing set of lives. The hippies with all their "flow" and "beingness" facilitated everyone's understanding of the Mature Soul phase and helped disassemble some of this society's blinder adulation of Young Soul consciousness.

 

Because they are often misunderstood and perceived as disturbed, when actually just perceiving more than the Baby or Young Soul, Mature Souls often gravitate towards a community of other Mature Souls where they can be understood. Berkeley and Cambridge are two notoriously Mature Soul cities in the United States, as is Amsterdam in Holland. Both the creative and the gay men's communities in Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York are a mixture, but tend to be Mature in flavor. Mature Souls enjoy the company of other Mature Souls for their emotional potency as well as for the "being on the same path" kind of feeling. They appreciate Old Souls for their information and perhaps an occasional rest, while Young Souls are enjoyed for their reminders of how to push forward in the world...

 

 

5. Old souls

 

On deep inner levels, Old Souls perceive the interrelatedness existing among all people. Intuitively they sense they are part of an integral whole.

 

Grasping this big picture, Old Souls then do their best to live by it and to not harm or judge others. There is a strong urge to be impeccable and to maintain personal integrity in all transactions. They detach from the emotional intensities of the Mature Soul period and get more objective about the ups and downs of life.

 

Having dozens of lifetimes in varieties of cultures and classes thoroughly blended into their essences, it is much more difficult for Old Souls to get embroiled in the right-and-wrong, us-and-them games people and countries both play. Seeing the whole picture in this way makes Old Souls calmer, more peaceful and centered. It can also make them appear passive or weak to the other soul ages.

 

While Old Souls do not tend to grow into their full soul perceptivity until about age thirty-five or so, they will, even before then, be accused of stepping to the beat of a different drummer. They are unusual--two steps away from the norm--in this Young Soul culture. Because they are inclined to individualistically follow their inner perceptions and desires, they may be seen as eccentric, though usually harmlessly so.

 

While there is great motivation for spiritual growth, motivation tends to be lacking when it comes to developing political or material punch. Seldom doing anything they don't want to and preferring their own unconventional pursuits, they often seek the path of least resistance as far as work, so that all energy can be poured into spiritual development. Because of the essence's richness gathered over many lifetimes, Old Souls tend to be extremely competent in a wide range of things--which often aren't pursued. They will try to find work that supports their personal growth: counseling, teaching, bodywork, gardening and carpentry being some favorites.

 

Many are magnetized by philosophy and art. If higher education proves necessary in order to teach, less orthodox schools allowing more opportunities for inner exploration will be favored.

 

A fancy house or car, or impressive clothes and jewelry aren't often too high on an Old Soul's real priority list. Neither is a nine-to-five job. Plain laziness on the physical plane sometimes creates difficulty paying the bills, but the material game just isn't what it used to be. However, Old Souls do have one advantage with the material world: as they begin to seek, understand and use the laws of the physical universe, goals can be attained with less effort. Thus, there is an outer, as well as an inner draw to understand the universal laws distilled in astrology, metaphysics, tarot and other ancient teachings.

 

Old Souls may explore many religions and teachings, being most drawn to those emphasizing love and to those they've resonated with closely in past lives.

 

But being rule-bound or as orthodox as some disciplines require does not usually last long. Unique, personal spiritual practices, like an oceanside ritual to mark a birthday, are often developed and used.

 

Old Souls are very capable of agape or unconditional love, and many consciously work on not ever judging other people. For this very reason, some Old Souls appear to be annoyingly remote. This is usually an essence who has previously handled many emotional issues and comes to the planet intent on examining intellectual, philosophical and spiritual issues, period...

 

 

......................................................

 

 

Material quoted from http://www.michaelteachings.com/welcome.html

 

 

Thanks to the author for letting me use this information at Tao Bums Forum.

 

 

Edited: typo.

Edited March 17, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I'm sure it's a very entertaining process, but.. it just seems like another contrived heirarchy, ultimately pointless.. and, i really mean no disrespect.. it just seems like so many other 'stories' we tell ourselves.. sounds like one of those goofy 'personality quizes' out of Cosmopolitan, or PlayBoy, or Qi Magazine.. no, wait, not Qi Magazine..

 

Be well..

[de_paradise]

Yeah, the pop-psyche quiz stands out, but it also reminds me of memes (values classifications) Perhaps there is some underlying truth to the connection between personality and soul age.

 

Of course I'm an old soul, older than the hills: there was just gasses back then. Now we've got this earth and its like, whoa.

[Birch]

*sigh* you're right but a little entertainment sometimes is good for an old soul

You think it's fun being born middle-aged?

[Gerard]

Greetings..

 

I'm sure it's a very entertaining process...

 

Not much than the Internet itself.

 

We all know that information is what it is: pure and simple information but you can extract some conclusions out of it.

Edited March 17, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Creation]

I remember when I was six years old I started having this constant haunting feeling that I was really old person trapped in a child's body.

 

Incidentally, that was also when I first started hating school and manifesting symptoms of depression.

 

Now I get the haunting (and thrilling) feeling that I'm all in this lifetime. So I'd better play my cards well, ya dig?

[SirYuri]

Its a nice read to share amongst friends over lunch to break the afternoon laziness...

Edited March 17, 2010 by SirYuri

[Gerard]

Definitively! And a nice break from seeing constant threads that revolved around the same old issue: how to gain jedi powers.

[NeiChuan]

I remember when I was six years old I started having this constant haunting feeling that I was really old person trapped in a child's body.

 

Incidentally, that was also when I first started hating school and manifesting symptoms of depression.

 

Now I get the haunting (and thrilling) feeling that I'm all in this lifetime. So I'd better play my cards well, ya dig?

 

Yea know what ya mean, when I miss a few days of shaving I feel like I have to check if I have a long white beard every morning.

[baiqi]

I'm not sure about reincarnation, but it seems a reasonable belief, way better than the Christian belief of eternal heaven or hell...

 

However I sure disagree with those who have a linear interpretation of human soul evolution, may they be bouddhists, hindus, druidic pagan or whatever.

 

The idea for them is: you start as plant, you go on as a very "basic" animal, then a mammal, then a human, then another one, and in the end you become a Buddha. (translate the word "Buddha" by the appropriate word according to the religion)

 

This is true (until the man level) if we talk linear time. It is called evolution. But, I believe buddhahood or immortality outside of time, therefore outside evolution.

 

I don't see really how we humans are more evolved than animals. According to what criteria? Oh, yes, intellect, ability to change and even destroy our environment...But these criteria are man-made...

 

So this "old soul stuff" is pointless to me.

 

Just my opinion anyway.

[三江源]

 

 

Of course I'm an old soul, older than the hills: there was just gasses back then. Now we've got this earth and its like, whoa.

 

[Ya Mu]

Definitively! And a nice break from seeing constant threads that revolved around the same old issue: how to gain jedi powers.

Agreed!

Thanks for posting this. While some of what is said is, I think, too generalized, It does give a nice overview. I agree with the classification in that I have seen examples in my classes of each type. I would say for the most part that the "older souls" are drawn to qigong & healing and that natural energetic laws seem to really confuse the younger souls; many of these seem to want to learn to use qi more for physical tasks than to reach higher level internal development or to use for helping others.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Definitively! And a nice break from seeing constant threads that revolved around the same old issue: how to gain jedi powers.

 

There are 10x more threads on masturbation than there are on jedi stuff

 

If anything there should be MORE about jedi powers. I'm tired of how everyone feels the need to make a new thread about jacking off even though there are already 2 or 3 on the front page

[Sunya]

I'm confused. This whole young soul/old soul distinction is odd to me because first it implies a creator, which is quite unBuddhist, because you are applying a time distinction onto souls, implying they were created at some point. Secondly it implies that some souls are created prior to other souls, which is an odd distinction to me. How can one soul be older than another? Even the monotheistic religions have creation happening at one instantaneous moment, prior to time.

 

Ah I see this is a Taoist thing, so Taoists believe in souls that were created at a linear point in time?

 

edit: nevermind, I see that this isn't a serious thread. I do agree that it's interesting, I think I fit in with the old souls because i'm quite lazy about doing anything except exploring metaphysical and personal issues, and meeting like minded people.

Edited March 18, 2010 by mikaelz

[Creation]

I'm confused. This whole young soul/old soul distinction is odd to me because first it implies a creator, which is quite unBuddhist, because you are applying a time distinction onto souls, implying they were created at some point. Secondly it implies that some souls are created prior to other souls, which is an odd distinction to me. How can one soul be older than another? Even the monotheistic religions have creation happening at one instantaneous moment, prior to time.

 

Ah I see this is a Taoist thing, so Taoists believe in souls that were created at a linear point in time?

 

edit: nevermind, I see that this isn't a serious thread. I do agree that it's interesting, I think I fit in with the old souls because i'm quite lazy about doing anything except exploring metaphysical and personal issues, and meeting like minded people.

Whoa there Dr. Dharma Defender, no need to get all inquisitorial now. The question is how many lifetimes have you been human, not how long has your soul existed.

 

 

For the record, I don't really know anything about "souls", reincarnation, or linear time anyway. I just had some "feelings" and "intuitions" that are no doubt heavily filtered by my mind.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Creation

[3bob]

Souls are also rafts, so to speak. (the term also has different meanings depending on which school...)

 

Before the first and the last - young or old, great or small does not matter, no rafts can pass there.

 

Om

[That Guy]

There are 10x more threads on masturbation than there are on jedi stuff

 

If anything there should be MORE about jedi powers. I'm tired of how everyone feels the need to make a new thread about jacking off even though there are already 2 or 3 on the front page

Well I think it is a good change too, because theres no point in making those how to get jedi power threads since no one here has them anyway... he-he-he

 

I am an old soul according to this, but still a fair bit away from being 35

[hagar]

Well I think it is a good change too, because theres no point in making those how to get jedi power threads since no one here has them anyway... he-he-he

 

I am an old soul according to this, but still a fair bit away from being 35

 

Can you be a really young soul and a fast learner?

 

Or an old soul that makes the same mistakes over and over and over?

 

Or are there souls that tend to forget fast?

 

Or surprised souls?

[That Guy]

Can you be a really young soul and a fast learner?

 

Or an old soul that makes the same mistakes over and over and over?

 

Or are there souls that tend to forget fast?

 

Or surprised souls?

 

I don't know, souls might not even have different ages, they might simply have always been.

 

And can't souls just simply have different personality traits? Are souls destined to end up becoming more or less the same kinda soul? (personality wise)

 

If we are to go along with the soul ages though, you can be a "fast" learner if your life allows for it. Like you going through the perfect situations to help you learn faster whatever it is that you need to learn.

 

But at the end of the day I don't really know

[Ya Mu]

Destiny of Souls is an interesting book on the subject Dr By Michael Newton

http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184995

These case studies coincide with what I know from dreamtime activities.

[hagar]

I don't know, souls might not even have different ages, they might simply have always been.

 

And can't souls just simply have different personality traits? Are souls destined to end up becoming more or less the same kinda soul? (personality wise)

 

If we are to go along with the soul ages though, you can be a "fast" learner if your life allows for it. Like you going through the perfect situations to help you learn faster whatever it is that you need to learn.

 

But at the end of the day I don't really know

 

My question, then, is this;

Is there really, and I mean really, a difference between your personality and your soul?

 

For argument's sake, lets say what we really Are, our True Nature, is NOT our soul, since that just is pure being. Then the soul is something with an agenda, something conditioned, a "something" with needs, thus exsisting to a degree in duality, living or in an inbetween bardo.

 

What then?

 

Suddenly I feel like my Soul is, for a better word, abit sneaky?

Its on a mission, and "I" am not in on it.

 

h

[That Guy]

Well maybe you (hagar/hagars soul) are on a mission, but for the mission outcome to count you had to make yourself not aware of the mission, if you get what I mean. So you made yourself forget when you came into this world.

 

Like if you do a good deed because you know you're gonna get a reward, then it doesnt seem quite as noble as if you did it just to help someone out.

 

Or maybe life is a twisted game souls like to play on themselves

 

(oh yeah, do you read claymore hagar?)

[三江源]

If we have 'soul food' and 'soul music' and 'soul mates' and 'the vale of soul making' then we can take it that soul is more than personality. It is deeper and needs deep feeding and expression otherwise it grieves and causes distortions of personality, and drives one to any mannner of behaviours to get some soul experience. And so it is more individual, more engaged in change and expression and experience than Pure Being.

 

I think it is our body spirits mixed in a cocktail with the flavour of our destiny - potential...

 

I think it is the potential flower or tree that we could be.

 

 

 

Thomas Moore is the Soul writer extraordinaire, and his books are a delight to read. he uses the great word 'ensoulment' .. to talk about the creation of a soul in a human being.. we can enrich our souls and make our lives more soulful. He has a great book 'the soul of sex' too, ever a fascinating subject for us taoists. All of his books are Excellent and Highly Recommended by moi!

[rain]

I like that hagar ..

 

 

..................."Sneaky Soul"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Watcher in The Rye".

Edited March 18, 2010 by rain

[hagar]

Well maybe you (hagar/hagars soul) are on a mission, but for the mission outcome to count you had to make yourself not aware of the mission, if you get what I mean. So you made yourself forget when you came into this world.

 

Like if you do a good deed because you know you're gonna get a reward, then it doesnt seem quite as noble as if you did it just to help someone out.

 

Or maybe life is a twisted game souls like to play on themselves

 

(oh yeah, do you read claymore hagar?)

 

I just have this very deep suspicion about souls, allthough I get what you're sayin, and no, I never read Claymore. A must read?

 

Cat:

Soul is something deeper, yet I struggle with the notion of "my soul" as a singular, and I also struggle with a coctail of lower and higher souls, as in Daoist lore, and in addition, isn't the whple notion of soul based in the re-enchantment project in the Romantic period, still alive and kicking today? And soul mates? Are there really just two?

 

The notion of a Soul, surviving death or atleast unting with the divine after life is for me abit like buildling a narrative to create meaning. Things are abit less actionpacked if we don't build up a story around it. Souls are a bit of a story. But an important one at that. But lets face it, if me, meaning my ego-based identity, is something definately separate from my soul-self, yet it's not my Real self, I'm confused.

 

Personally I don't feel like my light is a unit, just as much as a raindrop is

 

h