the Three Pure Ones

[baiqi]

For those who don't know what I'm talking about:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Pure_Ones

 

This thread is about religious taoism. I don't know if many of you pay attention to it, I know some do, but living in China this is something you cannot really deny its existence.

 

So, I wanted to try to understand it, by examining the meaning of its top deities. Any information, question, or remark is welcome.

 

I will also give my own opinion on what I think these are. Of course, this may or may not be the classical interpretation taoists priests give.

 

First, I see the three pure ones as principles more than spirits. Even if they are shown as humans, there is nothing human in them at all.

 

One of the evidences of that for me is the calendar:

 

- yuan shi tian zun (元始天尊)the Universal Lord of the Primordial Beginning, is worshiped on the day of the winter solstice.

- 靈寶天尊 The Universal Lord of the Numinous Treasure is worshiped on the day of the summer solstice.

- and finally, 道德天尊 The Universal Lord of the Way and its Virtue, is worshiped on the 15 of the second lunar month in the Chinese calendar.Which is quite, if I make no mistake, between the two solstices.

 

Taoism is obviously not the only religion that celebrates the solstices. Any pagan religion does, and even christians do.

The thing is, here, the most important day is the last one, which is a must celebrate day for all taoists of all branches.

 

To me the reason is simple:the Universal Lord of the Primordial Beginning is yin energy (winter, cold, dark and so on), The Universal Lord of the Numinous Treasure is yang energy (summer, therefore heat, light activity, whereas The Universal Lord of the Way and its Virtue is the balances between yin and yang, which as you should know one of the most important things in taoism.

 

Now why do they look "human"? I guess it is a representation of Lao Zi under different forms and periods of his life. Only when he was old he mastered both yin and yang. It is also the concept of trinity: the three origins come from the one.

 

Sounds esoteric doesn't it?

 

More to come...

[baiqi]

 

eeer... Nobody is interested?

[Procurator]

 

eeer... Nobody is interested?

crickets:))

 

to understand the reason as to why they are antropomorphic just one word is needed - microcosm.

[Stigweard]

Now why do they look "human"?

Because that is how OUR perception of "their" spiritual being interprets them. Someone with a completely different world view would arrange their energy to appear totally different. A native American, for example, might arrange the energy to appear as an eagle, a fox, and a salmon.

 

[Marblehead]

To me the reason is simple:the Universal Lord of the Primordial Beginning is yin energy (winter, cold, dark and so on), The Universal Lord of the Numinous Treasure is yang energy (summer, therefore heat, light activity, whereas The Universal Lord of the Way and its Virtue is the balances between yin and yang, which as you should know one of the most important things in taoism.

 

Hi Baiqi,

 

Although I do not follow Taoist religion (or any religion) I think what you presented here is sound logic.

 

As to the "Three Pure Ones", this idea can probably be traced back well before the time of Lao Tzu. I have noticed in both Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu places where they speak of beliefs that existed for a long time before they were born.

 

I agree with Stig in that most cultures placed much attention on the solstices and many personified the events by creating gods of some form to represent them.

 

Peace & Love!

[Pietro]

it would be interesting to find the relation between the 3 pure ones and the tan tien. I know it's a one to one relation, although I never remember which is related with which :-(. But I suspect there might be practices that connect the two, the external representation with the internal field.

[YMWong]

it would be interesting to find the relation between the 3 pure ones and the tan tien. I know it's a one to one relation, although I never remember which is related with which :-(. But I suspect there might be practices that connect the two, the external representation with the internal field.

 

The Three Pure Ones are envisioned both during ritual and meditation, and they are embodied as three vapours (green, yellow and white) in the three dantian.

I think Prof. Saso touches the subject in both his "TOTMC" and "The Gold Pavillion"

 

YM

[z00se]

The Three Pure Ones are envisioned both during ritual and meditation, and they are embodied as three vapours (green, yellow and white) in the three dantian.

I think Prof. Saso touches the subject in both his "TOTMC" and "The Gold Pavillion"

 

YM

 

Well my thought was that the three pure ones were the three sources of energy. Heaven/universal Man/cosmic & Earth/grounding.

 

Taoism has been around for many many years and originally there were no 'gods' as such. There were just connections to the three sources of energy, and the feelings associated with them. I feel the colours as blue golden and purple.

 

Later buddism was introduced from india and gained alot of attention from the Chinese. Thenafter the taoist 'gods' of the 3 pure ones were created to compete with the gods of buddism.

[soaring crane]

Taoism has been around for many many years and originally there were no 'gods' as such. There were just connections to the three sources of energy, and the feelings associated with them. I feel the colours as blue golden and purple.

 

 

 

pssst - be careful, don't say that too loud:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

pssst - be careful, don't say that too loud:

 

Hehehe. Yes, I read that but just didn't feel like saying anything to it.

 

Peace & Love!

[baiqi]

"it would be interesting to find the relation between the 3 pure ones and the tan tien. I know it's a one to one relation, although I never remember which is related with which :-(. But I suspect there might be practices that connect the two, the external representation with the internal field."

 

Well, IMO, the Universal Lord of the Primordial Beginning is yin energy, should be lower dantian,

the Universal Lord of the Numinous Treasure is yang energy, therefore should be middle dantian (or heart, so to speak), and The Universal Lord of the Way and its Virtue should be the upper dantian.

 

If this isn't correct, I welcome practitioners of religious taoism to correct me!

 

"The Three Pure Ones are envisioned both during ritual and meditation, and they are embodied as three vapours (green, yellow and white) in the three dantian. "

 

The colors seem a bit strange to me... Anyway, with which dantian are they associated? I'd like to try that for personal practice.

 

Thx in advance.

[Gerard]

Three pure ones in Taoism, I guess there would be:

 

1. Jing, Qi, Shen

2. Earth, Man, Heaven

 

Which somehow can be related to:

 

3. Sangha, Buddha, Dharma

4. Holy Spirit, Son, Father

[YMWong]

"The Three Pure Ones are envisioned both during ritual and meditation, and they are embodied as three vapours (green, yellow and white) in the three dantian. "

 

The colors seem a bit strange to me... Anyway, with which dantian are they associated? I'd like to try that for personal practice.

 

Yuanshi Tianzun = upper dantian = green (blue-green)

 

Lingbao Tianzun = center dantian = yellow (yellow-gold)

 

Daode Tianzun = lower dantian = white (bright white)

 

YM

[baiqi]

@ YM: thanks a lot!

 

@ all: forget what I said about the relationships with the three dantians!

[~jK~]

For those who don't know what I'm talking about:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Pure_Ones

 

This thread is about religious taoism. I don't know if many of you pay attention to it, I know some do, but living in China this is something you cannot really deny its existence.

 

Three pure ones are those that must be kept pure in order to evolve within this life EG: Breath, Body and Mind (Meditation)

If you are in China, then you will know that China is built on a philosophical foundation - not the religious supersticion that was enforced by governments in the west as a controll over the people.

 

The thinking of religion in China is practiced by some - but mainly it is pitied as a mental weakness for wishful thinking akin to gambling.

As such - the word 'god' points more toward 'natural law' than a supernatural, mythical person (a superman), and can be substituted for it. As in the 'god' of gravity, the god of meditation (the mind), the god of the body - etc...

[Marblehead]

... but mainly it is pitied as a mental weakness for wishful thinking akin to gambling.

 

I would expect Ralis to get back to you on that one. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[z00se]

If you are in China, then you will know that China is built on a philosophical foundation - not the religious supersticion that was enforced by governments in the west as a controll over the people.

 

 

It's built on confusism. Where the child respects parents, wife respects husband, husband respects government with government at the top. Thats why it was chosen as the philosophical foundation for their society.... So the government can control the people too.

[baiqi]

@ Jk,

 

this will be soon discussed in another topic.

[~jK~]

It's built on confusism. Where the child respects parents, wife respects husband, husband respects government with government at the top. Thats why it was chosen as the philosophical foundation for their society.... So the government can control the people too.

The spelling is "Confucianism" and it is not a control over the people - such as the enforcement of Christianity during the past has been - but rather philosophical - which is relatively easy to understand as well as to implement in society - through Very Simple observations - as The Children have the attributes of the parents and grandparents - including coming from their body - as well modern proof coming from the science of genetics.

 

The only control factor in Confucianism is the ones people place upon themselves, by themself, through reasoning with what they can see within their own families.

 

To see Confucianism in practice - Go see the new movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgiM1ubNCYc

Edited March 29, 2010 by ~jK~

[contrivedname!]

The spelling is "Confucianism" and it is not a control over the people - such as the enforcement of Christianity during the past has been - but rather philosophical - which is relatively easy to understand as well as to implement in society - through Very Simple observations - as The Children have the attributes of the parents and grandparents - including coming from their body - as well modern proof coming from the science of genetics.

 

The only control factor in Confucianism is the ones people place upon themselves, by themself, through reasoning with what they can see within their own families.

 

To see Confucianism in practice - Go see the new movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgiM1ubNCYc

 

Confucius said to master Sanghu, "I have twice been expelled from Lu, had trees chopped down on me in Song, had my tracks wiped away in Wei, came to the end of my resources in Shang and Zhou, and was surrounded on the border of Chen and Cai. Why is it that while i have encountered these many troubles my family and relatives have grown ever more scattered?" Master Sanghu said, "Are you the only one who has not heard of the man who left Jia? Lin Hui cast away a jade disc worth a thousand dollars, put his baby on his back and hurried off. Someone said, "Did you do it because of the price? But the price of a baby is so small! Or did you do it because of the trouble? but the trouble of a baby is so much! Why would you throw away a thousand dollar piece of jade and hurry off with a baby on your back? Lin Hui said, "I was brought together with that one by profit, but i was joined with this one by heaven. Things brought together by profit, when pressed by misfortune and danger, will cast each other aside; but things joined by heaven, when pressed by misfortune and danger, will shelter each other. The difference between sheltering each other and casting each other aside is really distant indeed!"

 

-Zhuangzi (Shaughnessy translation)

[z00se]

The spelling is "Confucianism" and it is not a control over the people - such as the enforcement of Christianity during the past has been - but rather philosophical - which is relatively easy to understand as well as to implement in society - through Very Simple observations - as The Children have the attributes of the parents and grandparents - including coming from their body - as well modern proof coming from the science of genetics.

 

The only control factor in Confucianism is the ones people place upon themselves, by themself, through reasoning with what they can see within their own families.

 

To see Confucianism in practice - Go see the new movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgiM1ubNCYc

 

Mate you are talking rubbish, about something you know very little about from watching a movie or reading a book. You think the government in china doesn't want to control the people? You think it's a 'fair' way? The government check everything that goes on the news and doesn't show anything unfavorable. There was some stuff that when down up north that i'm sure you're aware of and they only just turned their telephones and internet on about a month ago. Yeah, for about 6-8 months no internet or telephoning to the outside world. I've lived in china for over 2 years, i know what it's like here. Does their society work? No it's weak because it's all corrupt. Look at the milk scandel for one.

 

The people here are very sheltered and have little knowledge of the outside world other than what is portrayed to them by their government. There is no free speach. In the past everyone has been so poor and the education is very lacking. The university education here is still pretty crappy apart from the chinese medicine courses of course. So people don't resist. It's been the only way they've ever known and those who lived during the revolution say very little about it. Heck you can't even have a conversation about the government here. If there are more than 2-3 friends in a room, or anyone you don't know, people just walk out because they are scared what will happen to them from what they say about the goverment.

 

The western governemnt controls their people too. They are more strict infact in different ways. The people need to be controlled. But don't ramble on about some crap that you have no idea about, for you the grass only seems greener on the other side. There are other ancient philosophical chinese ideas of how to run a society but confucisim it preferred by the goverment because it puts them squarely in charge.

[z00se]

If your government (Chairman Mal) killed 15-35,000,000 people because of his incompitence as a leader, after he took over a much more skilled goverment. Would you want to know this or wouldn't you mind if it wasn't allowed to be shown in the media, or talked about anywhere so you didn't find out? So they could keep the power.

 

To put it in perspective hitler killed 6,000,000 jews, and the china governement killed their own people!

 

Moreover if you rallyed against this government would you care if you were run down by tanks?

 

Count yourself lucky your country has christianity. Us westerners get to take over, control and kill the other countries, not takeover, control and kill ourselves. haha YinYang =]