Enforced Teacher Student Relationships.

[Seth Ananda]

I Haven't been here for a while (in any serious way) and In the last two days have been appalled by the communication styles running through the various threads.

 

All over the place people seem to be trying to Take a Teacher Role in some uninvited manner with someone else which is nothing more than a Power play.

Some people seem almost desperate to jump up and down on someone else's perspective and make them wrong.

 

So often this is done In a stance of absolute truth, which I think is the supreme authoritarian position. It gets funnier when the people doing it are claiming an anti authoritarian or anti ego position and then just Blatantly tell someone they are stupid, have no Idea, are just believing delusions or are just strengthening their Ego's.

 

When One poster Asserts something as 'Truth' and then another poster doesn't agree in part or in full with the 'Truth' assertion, and then the original poster gets touchy, and begins to fall back on either Insults, poor me, Guilt games, subtle derision, Its because the Original poster has tried to take a Teacher position without Invite.

 

If I offer some Insight of my own, out of compassion, as a friend and equal to some other person I am chatting with how can I be offended or get touchy if they don't share my opinion? that's fine. I am not their Teacher.

 

Why would someone Try to Take the Teaching position?

 

Well, the way I see it is this:

 

It Feeds the Ego. When I can Dominate you with my opinion and with my beliefs I get a Top Dog Rush. Suddenly I am very Important, I am the centre of the Universe, and I am better than You. Also I am now safe so my survival circuits can Relax, as my cherished beliefs, which are closely tied to my Ego or Sense of self have shown themselves to be strong,and have conquered the terrain of the 'Not Self' (the world and Ideas out there)

 

In other words Its Cave Man terrain in here. When My Ego's Ideas can Bludgeon your Ego's Ideas I get to take the women back to my cave tonight.

 

I believe that conversing in this way Is bad for our state of being, our body Chemistry runs on stress as a result, On an energy level its an exchange of polluted transactional warring energy rather than the pristine clear energy of the universe, and the more people who learn to communicate without power games and hidden agendas the closer we will get to a peaceful reality here on earth.

 

So how do we do it?

 

Here is my take:

 

Swap the I Know, this is how it is, I'm Right, Absolute perspective,

As well as all the subtle - "I am much more experienced than you, there fore you 'Have' to believe, honour, or listen to what I say - perspective that goes Along with the Absolute truth stance.

also there is the - My teacher is Absolutely True, therefore I Am as well by default...

 

So we swap all this for:

 

"The way I see it is... (personal not Absolute)

 

"I really like the way Buddha said... It really fits my experience of... (personal not Authoritarian)

 

"...I am sorry, you might be right but I just can't see it that way because the way I see things, it looks like..."

 

Anyway Love to you all, and remember this is just my point of view, and If I want you to be my teacher I will ask you to to accept that privilege if you like the Idea

 

Seth.

[Aetherous]

Yeah, it doesn't work to tell people how it is. Effective communication is quite a skill!

[Sahaj Nath]

Seth, this is just ridiculous. i'm sure you mean well and everything, but you've obviously not put in the time necessary for such a bird's-eye-view. i've been judging n00bs for the better part of 20 years, and my teacher was Asian and wore a boxy hat, so i'm pretty sure he was a grandmaster of something.

 

 

LOL!

 

i appreciate your words, brother. i get that these types of posts can often invite insults & derision, and so i also appreciate your courage and the place of compassion from which you wrote it.

 

i, for one, will take heed of what you've said here.

[Ya Mu]

...my teacher was Asian and wore a boxy hat, so i'm pretty sure he was a grandmaster of something.

First laugh I have had all night.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Mal]

Nice concept Seth, you might enjoy the communication stylings of E- prime. Link included for reference

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13885-international-e-prime-month/page__p__179531entry179531

 

Just for fun absolutes can often cause problems and incorrect assumptions

 

eg

All over the place people seem to be trying to Take a Teacher Role in some uninvited manner with someone else which is nothing more than a Power play.

 

-could become-

 

I notice many people taking a Teacher Role when giving advice. While often demonstrating the "my way or the highway syndrome" Even when well intentioned this tatic often appears as a power play or ego reinforcemnt behaviour to the advised party.

 

Still as absolute just presented differently. E-Prime is fun (ROFL)

[Athanor]

Indeed.

 

I'd just like to point out one more thing.

 

There is a difference between asserting something and explaining something.

 

For instance, answering to a "what" question (with what can I do this?) requires only a statement (with this and that), while answering to a "how" question (how to do this?) needs an explanation.

 

A proper explanation tells the whole necessary process with reasonably great details; expecting the other (the reader) to be a total layman. By explaining something this way the explanation will be most likely adequate to everyone, even to those who are really total laymen.

However, if you are asked a how question and your answer is a simple statement, then you did not answer the question. (Except of course if the process description was short enough to be fit into one statement, but most of the time this is not the case.) And then there is no need from you for any further fuss.

Don't be mad if you don't answer properly and the other rejects your answer. Try to figure out why it was rejected.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Athanor

[Athanor]

One very clear way to show others that you're driven by your own ego is to expect others to respect you.

[Seth Ananda]

Nice concept Seth, you might enjoy the communication stylings of E- prime. Link included for reference

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/13885-international-e-prime-month/page__p__179531entry179531

 

Just for fun absolutes can often cause problems and incorrect assumptions

 

eg

 

 

-could become-

 

I notice many people taking a Teacher Role when giving advice. While often demonstrating the "my way or the highway syndrome" Even when well intentioned this tatic often appears as a power play or ego reinforcemnt behaviour to the advised party.

 

Still as absolute just presented differently. E-Prime is fun (ROFL)

lol, I Love E-Prime, and thank you for pointing out my Absolutist statement

[ralis]

Are not belief systems (bullshit) and the limitations of language really the problem? Taking one's BS so seriously! Is there an element of fear involved? My authority, my teacher and everything I believe is superior to everyone else!

 

I have challenged the Buddhists that post here and never obtain satisfactory answers. They continue to beg the question and have an authoritarian attitude!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics

 

http://deoxy.org/alephnull/lethal.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

 

ralis

Edited March 19, 2010 by ralis

[Sunya]

 

I have challenged the Buddhists that post here and never obtain satisfactory answers. They continue to beg the question and have an authoritarian attitude!

 

ralis

 

it's quite the opposite actually, ralis. this whole thread might as well have been directed towards you.

 

besides the snobbish attitude, using exclamation points is one way you use to act like an authority. you use them in every post you make, the essence of which is just telling people that they are wrong and you're right. the things you say might be true but how you say them only drives others away. has anyone actually listened to you? hardly. it's obvious you're just inflating yourself.

Edited March 19, 2010 by mikaelz

[Seth Ananda]

Are not belief systems (bullshit) and the limitations of language really the problem? Taking one's BS so seriously! Is there an element of fear involved? My authority, my teacher and everything I believe is superior to everyone else!

 

I have challenged the Buddhists that post here and never obtain satisfactory answers. They continue to beg the question and have an authoritarian attitude!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_semantics

 

http://deoxy.org/alephnull/lethal.htm

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

 

ralis

The thing I like about the word BeLIEfs is the word LIE lying right there in its core

[ralis]

The thing I like about the word BeLIEfs is the word LIE lying right there in its core

 

:lol:

 

ralis

[Seth Ananda]

I Did say something very similar just a moment ago on the Happiness thread so sorry if its repetitive but to me it seems valid for Here as well.

 

I said something like:

In my experience Happiness comes from stopping believing in Lies. I maintain my Belief systems with my Faith. As soon as I start believing something, I invest my Faith in the system which then maintains the beliefs with the power of my Faith.

 

My Daily awareness practice these days is removing my Faith (energy) from every belief I can find, so that I can be free to just be with things exactly as they are. Personally this is the best and most effective practice I have ever done. I am astounded at the results I am getting.

 

When I can let go of my minds grip on reality and the need to make it conform to my perspective, I find an amazing sense of spacious open perfection.

 

On a personal note, I have always Loved and been amazed by the Universe. I Loved looking at plants for hours or staring at sunsets, or doing Chi practices that would make me feel the Amazing Purity of the Universal/Natural energy.

The thing is, there was always me and It. and I think I always felt that the 'Me' part of the equation was not up to scratch somehow. This was due to my beliefs about myself.

Now as a result of my practice when I sit out side, its not really me and it any more.

Its like everything is just it as it is, all amazing and perfect as it appears.

 

I am definitely not saying I have mastered some Non Dual space or anything. It comes and goes but is now much easier to access even when in conflict. (which I still have ) Its just in that space, Ideas of Self/Not Self, Emptiness/Substance seem pointless and irrelevant and Zero to do with reality.

So for me dropping beliefs is of primary Importance.

[Seth Ananda]

A quick addition, these Ideas are not mine, I got them from Don Miguel Ruiz's books of which I am a massive fan. I just finished 'The Fifth Agreement' which blew me away...

[Athanor]

[ralis]

it's quite the opposite actually, ralis. this whole thread might as well have been directed towards you.

 

besides the snobbish attitude, using exclamation points is one way you use to act like an authority. you use them in every post you make, the essence of which is just telling people that they are wrong and you're right. the things you say might be true but how you say them only drives others away. has anyone actually listened to you? hardly. it's obvious you're just inflating yourself.

 

Exclamation points are for emphasis. I guess you represent and can speak how others feel about my posts! Speak for yourself! Others do respond to my posts. BTW, did you forget how to capitalize the beginning of a sentence? Furthermore, if you are going to criticize my way of expressing, then clean up your own grammatical syntax.

 

Why not discuss some of the links I posted.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclamation_mark

 

ralis

Edited March 19, 2010 by ralis

[Ya Mu]

On a public forum anyone who posts is extremely naive if they don't expect any particular subject to be commented on in any direction. That's what it is, a discussion group. Any particular post will/can be ground up, dissected, commented on by people who have no qualifications or experience, commented and expound upon by those with little experience, and explained and commented on by people with experience. It can and in the case of TTB will go in extreme tangents.

 

I don't see that what is written above has any correlation with a public internet forum. A much simpler approach would be to simply show respect to every single person initially. Isn't that more inline with the way?

 

This approach posted reminds me of massage therapists who learn energy healing then say they have to get specific permission from each client at the time of energy projection in order to do the energy healing aspect. Sure, the energy healing should be listed just as any particular modality that the therapist does. But why in the world would they need to get specific permission from the client to do that modality at the time of qi projection? The client already gave that permission by coming to see the therapist. Of course each therapist needs to explain to the patient/client what they are going to do in a session. What I mean is like, if you are doing say, acupressure, then the need to stop and ask the client, OK is it alright with you that I project qi now? - is not applicable. If this explanation doesn't make sense to anyone I agree; but I have heard it over and over.

 

By simply posting on a forum, a person has given explicit permission for any particular comment, suggestion, or elucidation as long as it complies with forum rules. Otherwise, why post at all if you are worried that someone will "assume a teacher role"? If the person replying simply keeps in mind that every single person they meet online or in-person is worthy of respect, I just don't see how any of the above applies.

 

We tend to over complicate things.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Ya Mu

[VCraigP]

If the person replying simply keeps in mind that every single person they meet online or in-person is worthy of respect

 

 

Of course, this makes perfect common sense. What a lovely and simple ideal. But how rare.

 

Respectfully

 

Craig