Why Qigong Seems Bogus To Skeptics

[RyanO]

1) For scientific skeptics, there are many frauds who claim powers/abilities they do not have, and since qi is difficult to measure or quantify, it is difficult to tell truth from untruth. I know some scientific studies are being and have been done, and applaud these efforts, but feel at some level qi will always remain a mystery.

 

2) Many people are out of touch with their bodies. They dissipate qi rather than cultivate it, and because they can’t feel it, qi seems unreal. When people begin to cultivate vital force, the benefits of qigong can be seen. This is especially true for meditators who create imbalances through improper practice. For these people qigong and grounding exercises can be a godsend.

 

3) Because of many subjective aspects surrounding qi related practices, it is difficult to tell what is objectively true. These practices are rooted in often superstitious traditions, and discerning what is objective and what is subjective is a difficult task. "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves".

 

Just some thoughts. Any other ideas?

Edited March 19, 2010 by RyanO

[Trunk]

Kirlian photography is always a nice statement to those that don't believe in energy, aura, etc. Just put "kirlian" into a yahoo image search... That at least confirms that something is going on.

 

 

 

[Birch]

Or how about an ECG?

 

Putting wires on people when they're naturally "wi-fi"

 

 

I think there may be many many elements at work in qi-gong that could contribute to how and why qi-gong "works". I keep coming across them in my practice and reading. Trying to get it nailed down to "one thing" in the same way as we've managed to do with "treatment by radio waves" is IMO asking for failure in the face of many skeptics. In fact, I enjoy skepticism as part of my own post-practice analysis and I see it as part of my learning.

 

While practicing, I find it helpful to stay with "What works" as a concept.

 

Doesn't mean either of those positions are necessarily the case.

[sifusufi]

Recommended by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming, Ph.D

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/277641.The_Body_Electric_Electromagnetism_and_the_Foundation_of_Life

 

or...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Brennan

 

Major Players Here

believers

Doers

[de_paradise]

The main run of the sceptics are not "scientists" by any stretch of the imagination, they are merely people who have been programmed to accept current beliefs and to doubt anything not contained in our normative scientific body of knowlege circa 2010. If these sceptics were to do a little due diligence they would encounter a huge amount of documented evidence supporting qi. But believing in qi puts people into huge pickle: If qi existed, then it would make society, including our cleverist scientists, teachers, and medical doctors dithering fools. Also qi is the mother of all pandora's boxes concerning the question of existence and spirituality. If there is qi, and an etheric body, does that not imply layers of existence we are not aware of in this material world. If we start believing in qi, does that mean we have to start believing in all the other Buddhist or Indian guru stuff that seems to go along with it? Egad, it really is too much for an individual to wrestle with.

[baiqi]

Well, as I said in another post, the modern world will do anything to avoid the people follow a spiritual path. It would simply mean its end.

 

Even if there are proofs, or at least evidences, people will not recognize them. Media will magnify fake "gurus" or people getting nuts because of qi gong. The people themselves will prefer not to know, cause it will help them feel secure. In the west, qi gong is a strange exotic stuff coming from an inferior culture, in China the young see it as something for thr old people only, way less important than getting their place in the rat race for jobs...

 

That's the way it is. It is sad because people would definitely benefit from it. But by experience, it is useless to try to "wake up" somebody who doesn't want to. Only those who already have an open mind have an opportunity to learn.

[elcaminante]

Kirlian photography is always a nice statement to those that don't believe in energy, aura, etc. Just put "kirlian" into a yahoo image search... That at least confirms that something is going on.

Scientific research has proved that those images are caused by a high voltage corona effect.

 

The accepted physical explanation is that the images produced are those typically caused by a high voltage corona effect, similar to those seen from other high voltage sources such as the Van de Graaff generator or Tesla coil. In a darkened room, this is visible as a faint glow but, because of the high voltages, the film is affected in a slightly different way from the usual. Color photographic film is calibrated to faithfully produce colors when exposed to normal light. The corona discharge has a somewhat different effect on the different layers of dye used to accomplish this result, resulting in various colors depending on the local intensity of the discharge.

[Thunder_Gooch]

http://lamathunderbolt.com/images/trailerlg.mov this also might be applicable.

[That Guy]

http://lamathunderbolt.com/images/trailerlg.mov this also might be applicable.

Says coming Spring 2008, ehh what happened to it? Or did they mean the book and kunlun site coming spring 2008?

[Apech]

In my opinion Qi has to be properly understood and not many people do this. There are a lot of charlatans around but also there are a lot of well meaning people who get carried away when they raise a bit of Qi.

 

This is because of the subjective effects of Qi which open up possibilities in the mind beyond the actual abilities developed by the practitioner. Genuine siddhis occur in the later stages of spiritual development, these are siddhis which allow interaction with the physical world. The kind of siddhis which develop in the first stages are those of perception - clairvoyance and so on.

 

Energy at a distance demonstrations are to do with attunement between the teacher and pupil - they are valid but not properly explained. You will notice that invariably the demonstrator chooses a known 'disciple' on which to demonstrate and not a complete stranger. This is because the Qi demonstrated is not energy transmitted over a distance (which should be scientifically measurable) but a resonance effect between the mind of one person and another.

 

Because the Qi cannot be properly objectively measured it can be dismissed by scientists as bogus.

 

Just my thoughts.

[sifusufi]

Oh... forgot this

 

http://www.ymaa.com/news_events/20090217-chuckrow-awarded

 

He holds a Ph.D. in experimental physics from New York University

 

or...

http://bluesnakeblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/an-interview-with-allen-pittman-author-of-walking-the-i-ching/