The Kunlun Story

[That Guy]

Hello, since this is about kunlun, i asked on another thread about this video that was posted http://lamathunderbolt.com/largetrailer.htm

It says coming spring 2008, so is there a long documentary about this or what was coming spring 2008 was the book?

What happened in spring 2008? anyone know?

Someone? Anyone?

[Mal]

patience young padawan

 

There was going to be a movie, not sure if anyone knows what happened to it or how far along production got.

 

and 2008..... wow time really does fly

[That Guy]

patience young padawan

 

There was going to be a movie, not sure if anyone knows what happened to it or how far along production got.

 

and 2008..... wow time really does fly

Thanks Mal, I hope someone can tell us what happened to it.

I wanted to know so I could begin searching for it if it was out there somewhere

[immortal_sister]

blue dragon posted this quote:

 

 

freeform said:

 

Kunlun is a bit of an upside down practice... it's very different from about 80% of qi gong and spiritual practices...

 

Most try to build.

 

You build a strong foundation, you correct your thoughts and intentions, you control your behaviours and emotions... you build and build and refine and build... the idea is to build a stairway up to 'heaven' (enlightenment, or whatever you might wish to call it).

 

Kunlun dismantles.

 

It does this by letting go. Letting everything go... letting 'letting go' go... letting thoughts go.... emotions go... everything that has been built needs to be let go of... Letting things go is difficult - all the things that you thought were 'you' - they need to go... all the things that you thought were important to you - they need to be let go of too... it's like a slippery slope and there's nothing to hold on to... can be quite alarming and can also be very blissful... So in Kunlun we dismantle everything until the underlying heaven just comes through. Kunlun is not the only path that achieves this through dismantling.

 

 

not sure if this was answered elsewhere. but i was wondering if because this practice is about dismantling, it would be innapropriate or counter-productive to combine with healing qigong practice? i have been curious about kunlun recently, and someone was kind enough to send me a copy of their book. but because there seems to be such focus on the manifestations of the practice, i have been hesitant to try it on my own, or do it while also practicing qigong regularly.

 

anyone have some thoughts?

[freeform]

would [it] be innapropriate or counter-productive to combine with healing qigong practice?

 

Initially I would recommend doing one or the other.

 

Generally speaking, routing energy in a specific way will be counter productive initially.

 

Some qi gong styles will be fine to do when you have some experience in letting go.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes, I'm leaning towards Hundun over this matter (and Freeform's quote really changed the way I looked at a lot of practices, and it's helpful even to the present, so thanks for re-posting )

 

Every time I try to build something, every time I try to make something, something always comes along and messes it up, ruins the foundation, then I gotta knock it all down and start over from scratch. That's a whole lot of energy I am putting into making something that is so fragile and so hard to maintain, and wears down after time and needs to be built up again.

 

Whenever I let go, things seem to work out.

 

But I have found that I have a very powerful need to make stuff, an impulse to try to build, but every time I try to build something comes along and messes it up....

 

It's a vicious cycle that keeps trying to pull me in. Even though I know I just gotta let go and get out, it's very hard to do

 

But still, that seems to be the direction I feel most comfortable in going.

[ralis]

Yes, I'm leaning towards Hundun over this matter (and Freeform's quote really changed the way I looked at a lot of practices, and it's helpful even to the present, so thanks for re-posting )

 

Every time I try to build something, every time I try to make something, something always comes along and messes it up, ruins the foundation, then I gotta knock it all down and start over from scratch. That's a whole lot of energy I am putting into making something that is so fragile and so hard to maintain, and wears down after time and needs to be built up again.

 

Whenever I let go, things seem to work out.

 

But I have found that I have a very powerful need to make stuff, an impulse to try to build, but every time I try to build something comes along and messes it up....

 

It's a vicious cycle that keeps trying to pull me in. Even though I know I just gotta let go and get out, it's very hard to do

 

But still, that seems to be the direction I feel most comfortable in going.

 

 

I think the 2nd law of thermodynamics even applies here. Everything deteriorates and changes.

 

ralis

[markern]

Initially I would recommend doing one or the other.

 

Generally speaking, routing energy in a specific way will be counter productive initially.

 

Some qi gong styles will be fine to do when you have some experience in letting go.

 

Would spinal breathing ayp style be ok to do with kunlun? COuld you give some examples of specific practices that do not work alongside kunlun? Is there any difference in this regard between Jenny Lamb and Max` Kunlun? Max seems to be into a lot of other stuff and Lamb also teaches a bunch of other qigong in her classes it seems.

[ralis]

Would spinal breathing ayp style be ok to do with kunlun? COuld you give some examples of specific practices that do not work alongside kunlun? Is there any difference in this regard between Jenny Lamb and Max` Kunlun? Max seems to be into a lot of other stuff and Lamb also teaches a bunch of other qigong in her classes it seems.

 

The only caveat I was given is to not mix fire practices with Kunlun. There are a number of practices that would be compatible.

 

ralis

[freeform]

Whenever I let go, things seem to work out.

 

But I have found that I have a very powerful need to make stuff, an impulse to try to build, but every time I try to build something comes along and messes it up...

 

You make me smile

 

That drive to build... what if you could build, but without being concerned as to how it's going to turn out... building with passion and creativity, but not treating the final outcome with importance.

 

This way you can unleash the impulse to build - which is a fundamental creative energy... but have your awareness stay on the impulse, the creative energy itself rather than on the outcome...

 

That impulse has an intelligence all its own, and trying to force it into a mould that your mind has decided is just the right shape is caging the impulse as all the magic of it disperses.

 

Building something specific is an argument for self-importance. Building for the sheer joy of building has you drop into the present.

 

(this is process/content, for those that are following along )

 

Have you noticed that the most interesting people are the ones who have no idea what they're going to say until they say it... the best music comes from a band vibing on that energy of creativity and creating something new and unheard of in the moment... the best art grows organically from this very energy.

 

The models of spiritual development come about after someone developed themselves spiritually... Building to a specific formula is like building the terrain so it looks like the map - it just won't work - for one the map is 2D and the terrain is 3D!

 

Of course for certain paths and certain styles following formulaically and very strictly is very important... I don't buy into those paths - it's not for me (at the moment?)... The ones that work have their own way of freeing this impulse I'm talking about - you just might not find out unless you have an excellent teacher and have proven yourself...

 

So where are you now?

 

What is best for you at this time?

 

Don't answer with your head - in fact don't answer at all... ask and then watch how you go about finding the answer out. Because the answer is not where the magic is... The magic is in the process of building an answer.

[gendao]

i'll be more interested in what you have to say a year from now.

 

there's a difference between attaining states of experience and ascending stages of development. but i'll just leave it at that.

 

i am happy for you and the inspiration you're feeling. your virtual dismissal of vipassana and your heavy focus on 'stuff' happening are big red flags for me, however.

I'd have to share Hundun's opinion here.

 

Kunlun is known for producing some INCREDIBLE beginner's highs. However, don't expect this to keep progressing upwards in a steady, linear fashion. In a few months, you will settle down back to Earth, and then probably have to deal with the release of a lot of deep issues getting dug up out of your ground. This may involve a lot of physical and emotional detox. After a year or more of this, you may then find your practice growing increasingly still, more towards emptiness than bliss. Kunlun seems to do a lot of heavy organ detoxing, but qigong like zhan zhuang may be more useful for clearing out all the 20 meridians & boosting general qi & health (or when done in conjunction with). Then you have to battle the demons of distraction and boredom as you keep grinding through that phase, lol. Well, everyone's experience will be different and so mileage will vary...but I'm just giving you a head's up on what all else you might encounter.

 

Note that detoxing and clearing blocks are actually GOOD things that all real healing systems induce. But, they're just a lot easier to bear when you're mentally-prepared and expecting them!

 

So, do enjoy the honeymoon period right now...but just don't expect it to last forever! As Max says, for every high, there is a low... The quicker path - may also be the steeper one too.

Edited March 21, 2010 by vortex

[Creation]

You make me smile

You know what makes me smile? This post.

[markern]

The purpose of Vipassana isn't concentrative states so of course other methods work better toward jhana. Vipassana you investigate all phenomena as it occurs to see if it has any self, permanency or satisfaction. Some concentrative ability is necessary though prior to doing Vipassana. Since Westerners in general are quite smart, Vipassana works very well for us since we live in our heads most of the time anyway

 

I think it's good you want to mix Vipassana with energy practices. I think all the negative dark night stuff that Daniel Ingram talks about can be minimized or even avoided entirely if one also practices Qi Gong. But all of it can also be avoided by pursuing the direct path of self inquiry; once you see that there is no-self, but rather just awareness -- who is there to suffer? This path though is quite difficult, so might not work for everyone. Whatever works for you is best.

 

I apologize for expressing myself unclear. I know very well the difference between Vipassana and shamatha. When I said Vipassana in this post I lumped them togheter sometimes and meant srict Vipassana at otehrs. It seems to me that people do that quite a lot because shamatha is a necesary par of doing Vipssana because you need the basic concentration so you train that seperately. So for example when i said Vipassana good for Jhana I just meant breath awareness as a technique to reach Jhana as that is what is ordinarily used in the Vipassana/shamatha tradition.

[freeform]

You know what makes me smile? This post.

 

[Sahaj Nath]

You know what makes me smile? This post.

 

i concur.

 

i feel like singing "wind beneath my wings" right now.

[Birch]

 

 

Note that detoxing and clearing blocks are actually GOOD things that all real healing systems induce. But, they're just a lot easier to bear when you're mentally-prepared and expecting them!

 

 

 

 

 

THIS!

[Blue Dragon]

 

So, do enjoy the honeymoon period right now...but just don't expect it to last forever! As Max says, for every high, there is a low... The quicker path - may also be the steeper one too.

 

Okay, thanks but let me re-iterate

 

1. I have read the pages and pages of "negative" effects people have experienced from Kunlun on this very forum. Have done Qigong, also ZZ for 12+ years and have gone through a lot of these cycles. With several Goenka and Thai Forest Vipassana intensives as well as Bardonian practices, I guess I am not unfamiliar with detox, the dark night period etc. Have seen way worse with my Kundalini awakening eight years ago.

 

Like I said, one of my Chi Kung teachers is considered a national treasure of China and has kicked my ass hard when I got lost in bliss. Actually, I don't know if it is my lack of expression or lack of patience on the part of reader - no one seems to notice that I am not dwelling in my original post on Bliss, Shaking or any of the physical effects at all! I am only talking about deeper and profound states that I have so far experienced only through intense Kriya and Vipassana. I don't know how to explain further - touch of the prajna dakini or a kiss from kali? It is really beyond the realm of energy and detox and highs and lows that I find myself experiencing through this practice.

 

So, I don't think I consider myself "honeymooning". I guess I am married and have given birth to a child, AND I am a Guy. The focus of most advice on this thread is, IMO, Not applicable, but thanks anyway. With some background in Egyptian sorcery (someone popular in this field today who once trained with my teacher tells me sorcery is a bad word, so yeah Egyptian Alchemy), the scope of Kunlun + Red Phoenix is phenomenal. Taomeow is a sweetheart, and she won't say it but Chi Kung is best suited for Kids till they grow up, and this is not Chi kung. I wanted to really post the 'Seven Steps to Alchemy' scripture of the Mao Shan which describes Chi Kung as levels 1 and 1.5, but with a missed flight and waiting at the airport, that would have to wait.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Blue Dragon

[de_paradise]

Facinating experiences, thanks for sharing your (not The) Kunlun story (or, better, beginning). Sorry that 50% of what a person shares in this forum has to be in defence and pre-emptive defence, but look at it this way, it prompted you to be more forthright about yourself and your experiences, and there is good in that. I'm looking forward to your Maoshan post!

[Sunya]

Would spinal breathing ayp style be ok to do with kunlun? COuld you give some examples of specific practices that do not work alongside kunlun? Is there any difference in this regard between Jenny Lamb and Max` Kunlun? Max seems to be into a lot of other stuff and Lamb also teaches a bunch of other qigong in her classes it seems.

 

Jenny recommends (as she wrote on the Q&A section on her site) not to mix practices; Max says the same thing, but I didn't learn from him so I don't know. Jenny's reasons is that different practices do different things. For example AYP is a fire path that is bottom-up, Kunlun is not. Kundalini is merely one expression of the central channel opening, there are other varieties and modalities of energies that do this through different means.

 

to be more specific, Jenny says not to do any practices that specifically move energy around, but I standing meditation and breathing stuff is totally fine I would say. The Qigong that she taught us was the kind that opens channels through movement and breathing. You could probably do Yoga too.

Edited March 22, 2010 by mikaelz

[Sloppy Zhang]

Okay, thanks but let me re-iterate

 

1. I have read the pages and pages of "negative" effects people have experienced from Kunlun on this very forum. Have done Qigong, also ZZ for 12+ years and have gone through a lot of these cycles. With several Goenka and Thai Forest Vipassana intensives as well as Bardonian practices, I guess I am not unfamiliar with detox, the dark night period etc. Have seen way worse with my Kundalini awakening eight years ago.

 

Like I said, one of my Chi Kung teachers is considered a national treasure of China and has kicked my ass hard when I got lost in bliss. Actually, I don't know if it is my lack of expression or lack of patience on the part of reader - no one seems to notice that I am not dwelling in my original post on Bliss, Shaking or any of the physical effects at all! I am only talking about deeper and profound states that I have so far experienced only through intense Kriya and Vipassana. I don't know how to explain further - touch of the prajna dakini or a kiss from kali? It is really beyond the realm of energy and detox and highs and lows that I find myself experiencing through this practice.

 

So, I don't think I consider myself "honeymooning". I guess I am married and have given birth to a child, AND I am a Guy. The focus of most advice on this thread is, IMO, Not applicable, but thanks anyway. With some background in Egyptian sorcery (someone popular in this field today who once trained with my teacher tells me sorcery is a bad word, so yeah Egyptian Alchemy), the scope of Kunlun + Red Phoenix is phenomenal. Taomeow is a sweetheart, and she won't say it but Chi Kung is best suited for Kids till they grow up, and this is not Chi kung. I wanted to really post the 'Seven Steps to Alchemy' scripture of the Mao Shan which describes Chi Kung as levels 1 and 1.5, but with a missed flight and waiting at the airport, that would have to wait.

 

 

Facinating experiences, thanks for sharing your (not The) Kunlun story (or, better, beginning). Sorry that 50% of what a person shares in this forum has to be in defence and pre-emptive defence, but look at it this way, it prompted you to be more forthright about yourself and your experiences, and there is good in that. I'm looking forward to your Maoshan post!

 

I'm also looking to your quote

 

Also, don't worry too much about advice not being applicable to you- it's hard to tell without having known someone for a long time 1) what their practice experiences have been, and 2) what their life experiences have been. We learn differently and from different things, so not knowing that it's easy to see general advice as not feeling applicable.

[Sunya]

There's also a picture of a pregnant woman doing Kunlun, I wonder how the baby will turn out (snake baby???)

 

I heard that when the baby was born they kept losing it because it kept going transparent.

[freeform]

With some background in Egyptian sorcery...

 

I wanted to really post the 'Seven Steps to Alchemy' scripture of the Mao Shan...

 

You big tease!

[Blue Dragon]

You big tease!

 

 

Hey, you can't complain, I have had similar issues with your insightful posts before. Oh, and a belated thank you for some great Kunlun posts.

[Sahaj Nath]

Okay, it has been a year now, so i thought i would finally bump this thread and see if maybe Blue Dragon is still lurking around and would like to play.

 

 

there are some good posts in this thread anyway, so it would be good for people to start at the beginning.

 

what i want to know is what Blue Dragon (or anyone else who might want to continue the discussion) thinks of the practice now, assuming he/she has stayed consistent for the past year. how does it match up NOW with other previously learned systems.

 

 

and whatever happened to that Mao Shan post that was supposed to be forthcoming? although i wasn't very interested at the time, Sifu Jenny Lamb has helped me to appreciate Mao Shan's arts, and i've done a little more study in that area.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Okay, it has been a year now, so i thought i would finally bump this thread and see if maybe Blue Dragon is still lurking around and would like to play.

 

 

there are some good posts in this thread anyway, so it would be good for people to start at the beginning.

 

what i want to know is what Blue Dragon (or anyone else who might want to continue the discussion) thinks of the practice now, assuming he/she has stayed consistent for the past year. how does it match up NOW with other previously learned systems.

 

 

and whatever happened to that Mao Shan post that was supposed to be forthcoming? although i wasn't very interested at the time, Sifu Jenny Lamb has helped me to appreciate Mao Shan's arts, and i've done a little more study in that area.

 

I'm also looking to your quote

 

According to this post I'm looking forward to hearing something as well!

 

I too find that neat stuff comes up in association with Maoshan, and would like to hear some more that anybody has to say on the topic

Edited April 23, 2011 by Sloppy Zhang