trouble with tonics...

[Yoda]

I have had a long history of getting excited about various herbs, supplements, etc but I've never stayed on anything long term aside from basic vitamins. It's either a lack of continuing efficacy or my body begins to reject it.

 

It's been mentioned that real yang boosters like caffeine, ginseng, studmuffin medleys, etc can burn you out, but I've had trouble with the gentle stuff like theanine/Tao in a bottle and rescue remedy and green tea too.

 

Now, green tea and theanine have started giving me heartburn and rescue remedy doesn't work if I take it all the time.

 

Now I have a new darling: Natural Calm Magnesium. Love it, but this too shall pass. As I bring my Mg levels back up in the next few months, it won't give me the relaxation it's giving me now, I suppose.

 

I know that my life is fundamentally played out in my thoughts and feelings in the moment, but it's nice to have some sort of magic pill going on too.

 

Maybe these supplements do address some sort of deficiency in the system and when it's topped off you are done--move on.

 

Sounds like others here have had similar experiences, any thoughts on the mechanics of it?

 

Alcohol and tobacco are like that too for me--I can't deal with them regularly, but are nice as an occational treat.

[Mandrake]

Strange - you get heartburn from green tea?

Do you drink it solitary or with food?

[RedFox]

Hopefully Lozen or another herbalist will weigh in on this.

 

The simplistic way I look at it now (and I believe I got this perspective from the Tracker school), I think the difference is, am I taking this (whatever) as a food, or am I trying to medicate some imbalance that I'm not addressing with my food?

 

The spectrum of intake would look something like

 

Food ------------> Medicine ------------> Poison

 

Food items are relatively balanced nutritionally, and wont significantly skew my body chemistry except if overdone over long periods of time. If I'm imbalanced, and if what I'm eating/taking is on the medicinal end of the spectrum, under ideal conditions, it will swinging me back into balance more quickly than a more balanced "food" would. But, if I overdo it, I can swing out of balance the other way, and the body may give me signs that this is happening and cause me to lose interest or physically reject the medicine. (unless I have the correct medicine to counteract the imbalances of the first? I'm not the best person to talk about that.)

 

This post reminds me of another you wrote (i think it was you?) around new years, about avoiding the extremes of qigong practice and looking for more balance. Perhaps your body is telling you the same nutritionally? I know mine has been lately.

[karen]

My guess is that if you're getting hearburn from Tao in a Bottle, it's something in the herbs and not the theanine itself. Have you tried taking theanine alone? I don't think it's wise to take single amino acids on a long-term basis, but it's hard to imagine that causing heartburn.

 

There are many herbs, especially carminative ones like peppermint, that can relax the lower esophageal sphincter, allowing the stomach acid (HCl) that's supposed to be in the stomach to leak back into the esophagus where it's very irritating. Some people are more sensitive to this than others, usually when there's an underlying problem with low stomach acid. Most symptoms of hyperacidity actually stem from stomach acid being too low, as there needs to be a certain level of acidity for that esophageal sphincter to close properly.

 

Gluten-containing foods (wheat, rye barley) can inhibit proper HCl production, and that's the most common culprit, especially since wheat is so ubiquitous.

 

My feeling about favorite herbs/supplements is similar to favorite tools.. I happen to like my collection of screw drivers very much, but when I have a nail that needs hammering, it's not a matter of favorites

 

Since the energy systems of the body are engaged in a dynamic balance, shifting all the time, it makes sense that we would need to be continually aware of changing needs and adjust things accordingly.

 

Karen

[Lozen]

I know what you mean. Once you are balanced you no longer get a high anymore. I remember back when I was vegan I thought it was almost worth it to hold off on animal products for a really long time for that high I got when I ate fish after six months of solid plants and grains. Kind of in the same way I thought it was almost worth it to get a burn for the nice soothing feeling of aloe afterwards. I guess the point is supposed to be to find balance, not to get a buzz...

 

I've never heard of heartburn from tea... I agree with Karen on acidity, etc. Yes, that will be my next addiction... pH papers...

 

I was gonna say that I've noticed when people are taking stuff they really need, it's usually not what they want. For example, I would love to cleanse all day, but because my liver is deficient really what I need is not fruit juices and dandelion root, but some chicken soup and a nap. But the people who really need liver detox are addicted to their fatty foods and will scream bloody murder if you try to take them away...

Edited February 28, 2006 by Lozen

[Lozen]

P.S.--Just found this:

 

"Side effects are possible in people who have sensitive stomachs. Heartburn, stomach irritation, loss of appetite, and diarrhea could result from drinking large amounts of green tea."

http://www.farsinet.com/hottea/greenblacktea.html

[Leo]

I'm tellin' ya....try my magic potion just once...

 

one tablespoon of honey in a glass

put some water in

microwave it for 1:15

one tablespoon of apple cider vinegar

stir briskly

 

That's it. It's great for you, and I think it tastes like sour candy. I know, I know, you think vinegar is the worst thing for heartburn, but it really works. It also helps to keep your body in an alkaline condition, among other things. Just make sure to use apple cider vinegar (not white). Also I heard that Heinz is supposed to have whole apples or something that makes it better. I don't know if it's true, but the price difference is pretty slight, so I go ahead and buy it instead of the cheap kind.

 

If you try it, let me know how it works!

[thaddeus]

I have had a long history of getting excited about various herbs, supplements, etc but I've never stayed on anything long term aside from basic vitamins. It's either a lack of continuing efficacy or my body begins to reject it.

 

It's been mentioned that real yang boosters like caffeine, ginseng, studmuffin medleys, etc can burn you out, but I've had trouble with the gentle stuff like theanine/Tao in a bottle and rescue remedy and green tea too.

 

Now, green tea and theanine have started giving me heartburn and rescue remedy doesn't work if I take it all the time.

 

Now I have a new darling: Natural Calm Magnesium. Love it, but this too shall pass. As I bring my Mg levels back up in the next few months, it won't give me the relaxation it's giving me now, I suppose.

 

I know that my life is fundamentally played out in my thoughts and feelings in the moment, but it's nice to have some sort of magic pill going on too.

 

Maybe these supplements do address some sort of deficiency in the system and when it's topped off you are done--move on.

 

Sounds like others here have had similar experiences, any thoughts on the mechanics of it?

 

Alcohol and tobacco are like that too for me--I can't deal with them regularly, but are nice as an occational treat.

 

It's really interesting when I read a post on something that's been on my mind lately. And this is exactly what I was thinking. In fact, I was raving about theanine because the first three days I took it, I felt as if my mind was clear as a bell and I was thinking fast, cracking amazing jokes and oneliners..and then...bam, it stopped. I don't feel a thing when I take it. Now my natural urge would have been to take more theanine, but this time I resisted and started to examine exactly what you are talking about right now. I'm exactly the same way, I'll rave about an herb, vitamin or formula, even get my friends and family to buy it (i seem to be very influential in this regard) and then poof, the effect disappears in a very short time.

So far in my thinking process I'm starting to strongly believe that it is largely due to a placebo effect. I'll go out on a limb and state that when it comes to human beings, *no medicine* will work unless the 'patient' believes it will. So, if you really believe a certain substance will have a certain effect, our initial enthusiasm amplifies that effect. Alot of us here have a certain open mindedness that allows us to experience this effect.

I have alot more to explain on this, but today is crazy. I've been thinking about it alot.

The second angle on this is that i've learned the body chemistry operates on a feedback mechanism. For example, if one hormone goes to high, another will kick in to lower it. We have problems when the feedback mechanism stops working (overwhelmingly due to stress, genetics, or some kind of outside problem). I think these substances manipulate the feedback mechansim, but the body is smart, it will adjust shortly to make things come back to normal. For example, a tonic that makes you produce more testosterone, *should* in the long run force you to produce less to comabt the extra LH (for example, maybe Prolactin will go up), so as Lao Tzu pointed out anything to extreme will produce it's opposite..and that's why I love the Tao...it never fails..

T

[DanC]

Leo,

What are the health benefits of the Apple Cider with honey, do you have any links for

various tonic made from Apple Cider.

 

Daniel

[Lozen]

Here's one:

 

Vinegar Preparations

 

Vinegar - A vinegar is made by macerating the herbs in vinegar as the

solvent, agitating for 14 days, straining, pressing and bottling ina

dark class container. It is very useful for children because of the

absence of alcohol.

 

Dr. Cayenne's Vinegar Preparation (aka Fire Cider)

 

Ingredients - 1/2 cup each of chopped garlic, onions, ginger,

horseradish and parsley. 1/8 cup fresh or powdered cayenne pepper (or

to taste). Raw apple cider vinegar (make sure it is unpasteurized, as

this is 'live' vingar, and contributes to the healing properties

of the formula.) Use 1 qt. apple cider vinegar.

 

Procedure - Finely chop the vegetables, pack into jar, fill with

vinegar, agitate daily for 14 days, strain, press, filter and bottle.

 

Notes:

 

I Constituents - Actions

 

A. GARLIC

 

Garlic is nature's antibiotic. (*note--some people disagree with that

term...this is complicated so i won't get into it.) The properties of

garlic have the ability of stimulating cell growth and activity. It

has a rejuvenative effect on all body functions. It is a health

building and disease preventative herb and dissolves cholesterol in

the bloodstream. Garlic stimulates the lymphatic system to throw off

waste materials. Garlic opens up the blood vessels and reduces blood

pressure. Garlic does not destroy the body's normal flora.

 

Garlic contains vitamins A and C. It also contains selenium, sulphur,

calcium, manganese, copper and vitamin B1.

 

B. GINGER

 

Ginger is an excellent herb for the respiratory system. It is good

for fighting off colds and flu. It removes congestion, relieves

headaches and aches and pains, and helps clear sore throats. It is

excellent for upset stomach and indigestion. It is very effective as

a cleansing agent through the bowels and kidneys and also through the

skin. Ginger is an excellent herb to combine with other herbs to

enhance their effectiveness.

 

Ginger contains protein, vitamins A, C and b-complex. It also

contains calcium, phosphorus, iron, sodium, potassium and magnesium.

 

C. HORSERADISH

 

Horseradish has an antibiotic action which is recommended for

respiratory and urinary infections. It is a strong stimulant for the

system and has been used internally to clear the nasal passages and

cleanse the system of infection. It has been used as a stimulant for

digestion, metabolism and kidney function.

 

It is rich in vitamins C, B1, sulphur, and potassium. It also

contains vitamins A< P, B-complex, some calcium, phosphorus, iron and

sodium.

 

D. ONION

 

Onion contains smaller doses of garlic's antibacterial and antifungal

components. A paste of onions is said to prevent infection in wounds

and burns. Other extracts are said to inhibit blod-clotting and seem

to reduce cholesterl levels in people who eat high-fat diets.

 

E. PARSLEY

 

Parsley should be used as a preventative herb. It is so nutritious

that it increases resistance to infectionsand diseases. The roots or

leaves are very good for all liver and spleen problems when jaundice

and venereal disease are present.

 

Fresh juice has helped in conjunctivitis and blepharitis, an

inflammation of the eyelid. It has a tonic effect on the entire

urinary system. It has been used as a cancer preventative.

 

Parsley is high in vitamin B and potassium. It is said to contain a

substance in which cancerous cells cannot multiply. It is rich in

iron, chlorophyll, and vitamins A+C. Parsley increases iron content

in the blood. It contains some sodium, copper, thiamine and

riboflavin. It also contains some silicon, sulphur, calcium and

cobalt.

 

II. DOSAGE

Use it anytime you feel a cold coming on, anytime you want a general

tonic, or any time you get a taste for a wonderful salad dressing. As

a medicine, I suggest 1-3 teaspoons three times a day or as

necessary.

 

The raw vinegar contributes to the healing properties of the formula.

 

*Warning--do not use this if you already have a lot of heat/fire, esp. heart heat, and maybe take out the cayenne for the summer!

 

I believe it's a Dr. Christopher recipe. I change mine, add things, etc. I want to try

rosemary and osha next time... we'll see...

[Leo]

Leo,

What are the health benefits of the Apple Cider with honey, do you have any links for

various tonic made from Apple Cider.

 

Daniel

 

If you do a quick search, I'm sure you'll come up with plenty. This remains a perennial favorite, and sometimes you'll even see it on the cover of one of those little booklets they have at the grocery store checkout. There was a book that came out around the '50's or so by a guy named Jarvis called "Folk Medicine", that extols it as almost a panacea.

 

Aside from the good stuff that's in the substances, it uses the mechanism of the body compensating that was being discussed earlier. My understanding (which is limited at best) is that it is most desirable for the body to be in an alkaline condition. The body senses the acidity of the vinegar in the gut, and squirts out the proper chemicals to compensate thus leading to an alkaline state. Or something like that. Like I said, I don't understand it much past knowing it makes me feel good.

 

As far as helping heartburn (which it definitely does do) the explanation seems a little more tortured. There was a guy on TV a while back hawking a natural health book, and he said heartburn was due to having too little acid in the stomach, not too much. Over the counter antacids wipe out all the acid in your stomach, thus making it produce a whole bunch more and digesting the food. Apple cider vinegar, he says, does the opposite by adding acid to your stomach and helping it. I have no idea if this is true or not, but like I said the recipe really helps many people.

 

Lozen's recipe looks really good, and I definitely want to try it, but the beauty of the vinegar/honey is that it is so fast and easy. I drink it every morning as I'm running out the door to work, and sometimes in the evening as well, although I stop drinking it when the weather gets hot in the summer. I'm really hoping some people will try it for a week or so, 'cause I think it'll get me some rave reviews!

[三江源]

.

Edited April 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Yoda]

Leo, I've never had a tonic which I took for longer than 6 months. Have you taken apple vinegar for awhile? Feel good meaning happier, more energy, more relaxed, more focused, more libido, etc? Any ole apple cider will do? I just tried your basic honey and vinegar potion and didn't taste great, but if it could give me any sort of boost that lasts longer than 6 months and is simple like, I'll try it out. I could tell that it really stimulates digestive action. Do you take it on an empty stomach and skip breakfast or only take it after breakfast?

 

Thaddeus, All tonics as placebos? I would say absolutely yes, but not in the sense that 'it's all in your head' but in the sense that all of the material world is a manifestation of more subtle thought and feeling vibrations. So whether we are talking about an energy practice, a tonic, surgery, a coworker, your gov't, etc... if you feel good about the subject in question, it'll work for you and vis versa.

 

Mandrake, empty stomach mostly.

[Mandrake]

Yoda - I get it, green tea pill, right? Never heard of it before. Across the atlantic we tend to get much of the health stuff later. Well, that explains it.

 

Speaking about vinegar. I remember I had a period when I discovered that I just loved pure apple-cider vinegar mixed with salt. I sipped on it until it started corroding my tongue, nice! The end.

 

Mandrake

[Leo]

Have you taken apple vinegar for awhile?

 

I took it pretty much all last winter and spring, and all this fall and winter so far. I don't know how long for sure. In the morning, I do all my "stuff" - exercises, meditation, etc, then eat, take my vitamins, and shower. When I'm getting dressed is when I take the vinegar - so it's not on an empty stomach, and it's not exactly with food either. Incidentally, it is also supposed to be good for weight loss if you take it before you eat, and sometimes I take it in the evening to curb my hunger when I come home hungry and I know I can't eat right away.

 

As to how it makes me feel...it feels pretty darn good on my stomach when I take it, but it's hard to tell overall. I feel pretty good most of the time, and am usually in a good mood and good health, but I also do a lot of other stuff. I think the taste grows on you, and sometimes I'm surprised at how good it actually tastes. I also don't measure the ingredients, so it's a little different each time.