Chinese Shamanism

[Birch]

"If it's true, then it should be true, right?"

 

Tautology anyone ;-)?

 

You're right in that the present application of some "science" is restricted to applications that enable large amounts of profit to flow to some - unfortunately also at the expense of others. Why would the people enjoying such profit (we might also be personally enjoying some of it, I know I am) want to "find out" anything that would result in a diminishing of their sources of income (power?)

 

"What do you mean digging up this yellow stuff is pointless?"

 

So what to do? I'm trying to figure that out as I write this.

[Sloppy Zhang]

"If it's true, then it should be true, right?"

 

Tautology anyone ;-)?

 

You're right in that the present application of some "science" is restricted to applications that enable large amounts of profit to flow to some - unfortunately also at the expense of others. Why would the people enjoying such profit (we might also be personally enjoying some of it, I know I am) want to "find out" anything that would result in a diminishing of their sources of income (power?)

 

"What do you mean digging up this yellow stuff is pointless?"

 

So what to do? I'm trying to figure that out as I write this.

 

1) Find people for whom profit holds no sway

 

2) Find people who currently are not making a profit and wish to profit by introducing better medicine that heals you without making you feel like crap in the process or potentially killing you

 

"Greed can be a powerful ally." - Qui-Gon Jin

[Guest paul walter]

If that's the case, are there any nutritional research being done on things like that? A lot of material he's presenting is really interesting, but he turns around and says, "well that's not modern medicine works." It's like, if there is a much better method out there, then more should be done to get it accepted in the main stream medical science.

 

 

Or maybe this is the wood energy talking

 

 

Could just be the wood energy, Sloppy. Someone told me last year about a medical researcher who got the Nobel for "discovering" that the organs are more active at different times of the day--this of course is one of the most fundamental understandings in Chinese medical practice/theory. Of course it is possible the researcher could have pinched the idea from Asian medicines and gone looking for verification but usually the major research projects are just about pouring in the money and hoping for the best/keep looking til the funds run out sort of affair even if initaially based on hard hunches. Paul

[Gerard]

Could just be the wood energy, Sloppy. Someone told me last year about a medical researcher who got the Nobel for "discovering" that the organs are more active at different times of the day--this of course is one of the most fundamental understandings in Chinese medical practice/theory...

 

 

LOL...The one-eyed leading the blind. In the end they will develop a drug to activate organs at various times of the day.

[Guest paul walter]

LOL...The one-eyed leading the blind. In the end they will develop a drug to activate organs at various times of the day.

 

 

 

I think they already have--it's called coffee breaks .

[Sloppy Zhang]

Well.... finally done with the whole lecture! All in all, very, very good.

 

Loved how he went pretty in depth with all the elements. Also liked the segment on astrology, he really broke down the trigrams really well, I thought.

 

The only thing I didn't really get much into was the face reading... not sure how I feel about that.

 

The other thing I kind of didn't understand was how various things were stimulated and how it was positive or negative. He talked about organ times/five element years which impacted organs. So if you have a weak organ, a time or a year in which it is over stimulated will be bad for it. But if you have a healthy organ, some stimulation could boost its performance?

 

Well, thinking about it some more, I guess it's one of those things that is relative and depends on the situation, no hard and fast rule. Duh

 

But yeah, great, GREAT lecture. Thanks so much for posting! I've really wanted to get into the five elements for a while, and Chinese astrology, but both of them are so daunting to get into @_@ this was excellent.

[Gerard]

The only thing I didn't really get much into was the face reading... not sure how I feel about that.

 

Gee, I haven't listened to that part but let me tell you something that I can perceive when I read a face:

 

Sheng Xiao (Chinese Zodiac)...For instance I see certain characteristics of the dog face in a human born in that year.

 

Western Astrology (based on the movements of the sun, planets and constelations). I also see certain characteristics of this in the human face.

 

For me to explain this in writing is quite difficult. In person I could show you in person.

 

Face reading is amazing art, but it is as old as the Universe itself.

 

He talked about organ times/five element years which impacted organs. So if you have a weak organ, a time or a year in which it is over stimulated will be bad for it. But if you have a healthy organ, some stimulation could boost its performance?

 

Well if we, for instance, look at the activation of the gallbladder & liver in someone like myself is so obvious knowing that I was born in 1966-Fire Horse. Basically if I go to bed past 11pm I am screwed up. I have to be very careful with it. Yang-Fire rising over active Wood is not something I would recommend on a daily basis besided once for me is enough. I'd rather sleep from 10pm to 3:30am than 12 midnight to 9am.

 

Also during spring time the liver becomes very active and it is something I feel vividly especially after all this Bagua practice which really tunes you in with your weak organs as Qi doesn't flow as it should in them and what Bagua does is purge all the toxins and bad karma out. It works hard on all the 8 bodies we are made of.

Edited May 27, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Kameel]

Years ago, while seeing an acupuncturist, he asks about my wife. I show him a picture and he starts explaining minute details of her personality from the photo (he's never met her). Really detailed stuff. Then in broken english, he says "ahhh, she eat very, very good, like eat very, very good" and just keeps going on about her eating habits. Her voracious appetite has always been a running joke between us and she is hyperthyroid so can eat like crazy and not gain weight.

 

I looked back at the picture and searched for hints from a western standpoint, but couldn't find any discernable clues (no exophthalmos, visible goiter, hair or skin changes, etc), but from eastern face reading he had her figured out pretty well.

 

Pick up a book about face reading (sometimes you can find Ohashi's at Borders) and check it out when you get a chance. At the very least, you will get a good laugh at some of the pictures.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Gee, I haven't listened to that part but let me tell you something that I can perceive when I read a face:

 

Sheng Xiao (Chinese Zodiac)...For instance I see certain characteristics of the dog face in a human born in that year.

 

Western Astrology (based on the movements of the sun, planets and constelations). I also see certain characteristics of this in the human face.

 

For me to explain this in writing is quite difficult. In person I could show you in person.

 

Face reading is amazing art, but it is as old as the Universe itself.

 

 

 

Well if we, for instance, look at the activation of the gallbladder & liver in someone like myself is so obvious knowing that I was born in 1966-Fire Horse. Basically if I go to bed past 11pm I am screwed up. I have to be very careful with it. Yang-Fire rising over active Wood is not something I would recommend on a daily basis besided once for me is enough. I'd rather sleep from 10pm to 3:30am than 12 midnight to 9am.

 

Also during spring time the liver becomes very active and it is something I feel vividly especially after all this Bagua practice which really tunes you in with your weak organs as Qi doesn't flow as it should in them and what Bagua does is purge all the toxins and bad karma out. It works hard on all the 8 bodies we are made of.

 

I don't know much about astrology, still have to review stuff from that video too, can you explain what you mean by "yang-fire rising over active wood" and stuff means? How do you find out about stuff like 1966-Fire Horse?

 

Also...... 10pm to 3:30 a.m. is not enough sleep very few reasons why I'd get up that early, maybe if I had to write a paper, but if I'm going to be up at that hour I usually just pull an all nighter

 

 

Years ago, while seeing an acupuncturist, he asks about my wife. I show him a picture and he starts explaining minute details of her personality from the photo (he's never met her). Really detailed stuff. Then in broken english, he says "ahhh, she eat very, very good, like eat very, very good" and just keeps going on about her eating habits. Her voracious appetite has always been a running joke between us and she is hyperthyroid so can eat like crazy and not gain weight.

 

I looked back at the picture and searched for hints from a western standpoint, but couldn't find any discernable clues (no exophthalmos, visible goiter, hair or skin changes, etc), but from eastern face reading he had her figured out pretty well.

 

Pick up a book about face reading (sometimes you can find Ohashi's at Borders) and check it out when you get a chance. At the very least, you will get a good laugh at some of the pictures.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have to look that up.... and find a face reader!

[Guest paul walter]

Years ago, while seeing an acupuncturist, he asks about my wife. I show him a picture and he starts explaining minute details of her personality from the photo (he's never met her). Really detailed stuff. Then in broken english, he says "ahhh, she eat very, very good, like eat very, very good" and just keeps going on about her eating habits. Her voracious appetite has always been a running joke between us and she is hyperthyroid so can eat like crazy and not gain weight.

 

I looked back at the picture and searched for hints from a western standpoint, but couldn't find any discernable clues (no exophthalmos, visible goiter, hair or skin changes, etc), but from eastern face reading he had her figured out pretty well.

 

Pick up a book about face reading (sometimes you can find Ohashi's at Borders) and check it out when you get a chance. At the very least, you will get a good laugh at some of the pictures.

 

 

One thing to remember about face reading in particular is that whatever is read

about ones life through the face is liable to change if the heart opens and stays open--in taoist terms it modifies ones destiny, so, as with astrology, there are no hard and fast readings that apply for an entire lifetime-flux,change,tao. This is because when the heart opens the face changes dramatically thus changing the 'map' as it were. This is also the key to "longevity" and all those wrinkle-busting stories of 70 year olds who look 40 Nice holographic physics sort of stuff. Paul.

Edited May 28, 2010 by paul walter

[Gerard]

Fortune-telling and Astrology are as old as Chinese culture but were suppressed due to Confucianism since this model preferred rationalism. I disagree with this last aspect as impacted negatively in Taoism (and Buddhism to a certain degree) especially after the disastrous and so-called Cultural Revolution.

 

There is an excellent book on the subject called Divination in Traditional Chinese Society authored by Richard J. Smith which I recommend to anyone interested in this amazing art..

 

Anyway this book discusses face reading or physiognomy with detail but from an anecdotical perspective without offering the tools to learn it. I believe the roots of this art is based on oral tradition like many other Taoist arts and guarded with secrecy.

 

.......................

 

About the fire rising over active wood, well at 11pm yang energy starts rising but at a lesser extent that's why it is called lesser yang time and then starts to dominate yin after 5am where it completely dominates yin after 7am. Same happens with Yin after 11 am but it is less noticeable than the effect yang energy for some people like myself because I was born in a fire year and ruled by a fire animal (horse). Now gallbladder starts to become active but the gallbladder is a yang organ unlike liver which is yin. You can imagine the rest: yang rising burning yang wood.

 

About Chinese Astrology this site offers thorough info on the subject:

 

http://www.chinavoc.com/zodiac/index.asp

 

And the wikipedia entry is good too:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_astrology

Edited May 28, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Sloppy Zhang]

Fortune-telling and Astrology are as old as Chinese culture but were suppressed due to Confucianism since this model preferred rationalism. I disagree with this last aspect as impacted negatively in Taoism (and Buddhism to a certain degree) especially after the disastrous and so-called Cultural Revolution.

 

There is an excellent book on the subject called Divination in Traditional Chinese Society authored by Richard J. Smith which I recommend to anyone interested in this amazing art..

 

Anyway this book discusses face reading or physiognomy with detail but from an anecdotical perspective without offering the tools to learn it. I believe the roots of this art is based on oral tradition like many other Taoist arts and guarded with secrecy.

 

.......................

 

About the fire rising over active wood, well at 11pm yang energy starts rising but at a lesser extent that's why it is called lesser yang time and then starts to dominate yin after 5am where it completely dominates yin after 7am. Same happens with Yin after 11 am but it is less noticeable than the effect yang energy for some people like myself because I was born in a fire year and ruled by a fire animal (horse). Now gallbladder starts to become active but the gallbladder is a yang organ unlike liver which is yin. You can imagine the rest: yang rising burning yang wood.

 

About Chinese Astrology this site offers thorough info on the subject:

 

http://www.chinavoc.com/zodiac/index.asp

 

And the wikipedia entry is good too:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_astrology

 

Thanks for the breakdown!

[Gerard]

Just bumping this up...

 

I will do it too! Up here, for sure. Guardian of this thread.

Edited May 31, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Oolong Rabbit]

Thanks for keeping this thread alive. Joel exudes a very gentle wisdom, without a lot of ego. An amazing teacher.

 

BTW you can download the entire courses to your hard drive/ipod. Just right click each file... "save as").

 

Brgds!

[Gerard]

[Gerard]

I would like to upload an interesting reading that I came across and which can be related to the karmic aspect of face reading:

 

http://www.mediafire.com/?tnzmjgmyyzm

 

It is quite an anecdotical document but I like what the author says in pages 1 & 2. The rest are just examples of current celebrities and their facial resemblance with historical figures.

Edited June 6, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Sloppy Zhang]

So one thing he talks about in the lecture is using the Bagua symbol to heal or otherwise do things (magical things, maybe?) The only book of Daoist sorcery I've come across was really more about writing fu then praying to some deity to direct energy, rather than directing energy in a more direct sense, so I'm not too up on how Daoist sorcery/magic works.

 

He mentions that to do stuff you need to use the post heaven sequence of the Bagua. Does anyone know why that is?

 

I found the symbols that he taught to be rather interesting, has anyone done anything similar to that?

 

And on the subject face reading: eh, still not really buying it completely, but again, I have yet to meet a genuine face reader, so the jury is still out on that one!

[Gerard]

Joel Signeur also uploaded a section on Daoist Astrology:

 

http://www.theichingastrology.com/

[Sloppy Zhang]

Joel Signeur also uploaded a section on Daoist Astrology:

 

http://www.theichingastrology.com/

 

That's just the same astrology segment as from his class in the first link. I listened to both, to see if I would miss anything, and the first lecture (the one on five elements) has one extra story (an extra two or three minutes) that isn't in the Chinese Astrology class (it was between segments and a slightly tangential topic)

[Birch]

I reckon putting a bagua wheel in your pants is asking for trouble ;-)

 

Unless you need it

 

The divination mentioned in the audio on Chinese Shamanism seems very obscure to me. But I just put my paws on a related book about the Yi Jing (note the syllables) that would confirm. It's very complicated to read, but pretty in-depth and well-done. I guess I have 5 -10 years of study before I could even pretend to use it properly (the first basic exercise is weather prediction).

[Sloppy Zhang]

The divination mentioned in the audio on Chinese Shamanism seems very obscure to me. But I just put my paws on a related book about the Yi Jing (note the syllables) that would confirm. It's very complicated to read, but pretty in-depth and well-done. I guess I have 5 -10 years of study before I could even pretend to use it properly (the first basic exercise is weather prediction).

 

I think someone asked him if he could teach how he does the divination, and he said that it would need its own full course to teach, because if I recall correctly, he/it incorporates astrology and a whole lot of other factors into the divination, along with the hexagrams.

 

He didn't go into it and kept it obscure because it was probably a whole other can of worms that he just didn't have time to appropriately go through.

[Oleg Galkin]

Joel Signeur also uploaded a section on Daoist Astrology:

 

http://www.theichingastrology.com/

 

You can also try out my software program which makes natal, yearly and daily I Ching Divination:

 

http://fourpillarsofwisdom.com/

 

FREE 15 trial is included!

[Birch]

"probably a whole other can of worms"

 

Looks from what I'm reading that that ain't the half of it! The book has a special section on medical divination. Until I started reading it I'd been a definite "party trick" I Ching reader (for own vain purposes) and this latest text has cooled my heels severely. It's like studying math/physics/philosopy all at once.

[Sloppy Zhang]

"probably a whole other can of worms"

 

Looks from what I'm reading that that ain't the half of it! The book has a special section on medical divination. Until I started reading it I'd been a definite "party trick" I Ching reader (for own vain purposes) and this latest text has cooled my heels severely. It's like studying math/physics/philosopy all at once.

 

What book is this? Sounds interesting.

 

But the Yi Jing definitely is something along the lines of math/physics/philosophy rolled into one

[Birch]

Hi Sloppy.

 

i don't know if the book exists in English. I need to check! It's a scholarly deal but I reckon very good to read.

 

What I'm trying to get better at is the "feeling" of the things. So say if a certain situation has X inherent in it (tends to be people), you can "feel" it stretching through time (of course the feeling is an illusion;-)) towards an outcome. But what about the things you can't feel?