Mal Posted March 24, 2010 written by Miyamoto Musashi just before he died. Accept everything just the way it is. Do not seek pleasure for its own sake. Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling. Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world. Be detached from desire your whole life long. Do not regret what you have done. Never be jealous. Never let yourself be saddened by a separation. Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself nor others. Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love. In all things have no preferences. Be indifferent to where you live. Do not pursue the taste of good food. Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need. Do not act following customary beliefs. Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful. Do not fear death. Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help. You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honour. Never stray from the Way. from Wiki referencing http://www.martialdevelopment.com/blog/musashi-on-personal-development/ With thanks to the manga Vagabond for renewing my interest some different translations http://www.hyoho.com/Hyoho6.html quite different http://musashi1584.netfirms.com/musashi/19art/19art.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 Dear Mal, One would not be human if one followed most of those dogma. Let us not pretend that we are something greater than what we really are. Let's be the human animal we really are. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted March 24, 2010 One would not be human if one followed most of those dogma. Well you certainly wouldn't be an average human It reads as very Taoist to me "Accept everything just the way it is, Be detached from desire, in all things have no preferences, do not act following customary beliefs." (of course Musashi was a Buddhist) I don't see it as a dogmatic prescription of rules, but rather as ideals to aim for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 "Accept everything just the way it is, Be detached from desire, in all things have no preferences, do not act following customary beliefs." (of course Musashi was a Buddhist) Need I say more? Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mal Posted March 24, 2010 Ouch I'm in the "centuries of Buddhist/Taoist cross pollination makes both better religions" school. Which I why I like to stay out of the dogmatic debate threads we have had here in the past. True "Though shall not" is a particularity dogmatic expression. But to de-construct what one means to me (my choice ) "Never be jealous" Very absolute. But really what is to be gained by being jealous? Not much that I can think of. So if you find yourself feeling jealous, be aware of that feeling, and know that there is not much chance of good things occurring walking down that path. Better to just let go of that feeling (by whatever method works for you) The same with "Never let yourself be saddened by a separation" The past is gone, clinging to your memory of it is not particularity beneficial, let it go also. Really I quite like all of these, pretty sure this is the 1st time I've come across them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 Hi Mal, Hehehe. Yes, perhaps I should have used the word 'many' instead of 'most' in my first post. But then I did get your attention so my purpose was served. I agree, jealousy serves no useful purpose. And I agree that we should let of of separation, and all things, actually, but I suggest that there is nothing wrong with being saddened by a seraration. Afterall, we have lost a part of us. Yes, we must carry on but we can hold to the memory of the attachment we once had and feel the sadness, through our emotions, of the loss. I feel sadness whenever I think of my mother because I didn't have enough time to tell her often enough that I loved her. And life goes on. But, I will admit here that there was some good advice in those as well. I didn't mean to highlight negatives and not highlight the positives. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
That Guy Posted March 24, 2010 Hey Mal, glad you've been enjoying the manga and been inspired to look into its base further When I began to read it I couldn't put it down until I reached the current chapters Now though I have to wait 1 month between chapters sorry to do this to you too, since you'll be waiting too in the future Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted March 24, 2010 19 stood out most for me. I don't think the list is an impractical set of ideals to follow either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orochi Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) Those are great quotes! *bow* Edited March 24, 2010 by Orochi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted March 24, 2010 20. You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honour. How very Japanese... Do not act following customary beliefs. hehehe (I'm just playing - I like most of it...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nanashi Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11349-dokkodo/page__p__138818__hl__dokkodo__fromsearch__1entry138818 I guess we could always use a refresher, though. Incidentally, I edited out #20 from my posting of Dokkodo because I thought it sounded too Japanese for a mainstream, modern mind. Edited March 24, 2010 by Nanashi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro Posted March 24, 2010 "Do not act following customary beliefs." I'm curious to know what he meant by this one. Don't follow convention for convention's sake? I'd like to think that's a common sense principle most folks could get behind. However, the phrasing leaves it open to interpretation... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 24, 2010 "Do not act following customary beliefs." I'm curious to know what he meant by this one. Don't follow convention for convention's sake? I'd like to think that's a common sense principle most folks could get behind. However, the phrasing leaves it open to interpretation... That's an interesting one - I thought it meant that you shouldn't accept what everybody says is true just because they say it is (sort of thing). I think they're all good as long as you remember the world Musashi lived in and that he was a swordsman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martial Development Posted March 24, 2010 It is surprising how different some of the translations are. I get the impression that some didn't even attempt to reflect Musashi's intent, but only their own. This time next century, we may be debating whether Musashi smoked Camels and secretly practiced Taekwondo? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cymro Posted March 24, 2010 This time next century, we may be debating whether Musashi smoked Camels and secretly practiced Taekwondo? It'll probably take longer than that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SFJane Posted March 24, 2010 It is surprising how different some of the translations are. I get the impression that some didn't even attempt to reflect Musashi's intent, but only their own. This time next century, we may be debating whether Musashi smoked Camels and secretly practiced Taekwondo? I'll bet he was a Winston Man and a closet Chunner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Martial Development Posted March 24, 2010 I'll bet he was a Winston Man and a closet Chunner. Well, that would explain why he fought with a sword in each hand...and why he always won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 24, 2010 19. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help. I do respect Buddha but know of no gods I need to respect. Heretic! Burn him! *screams loudly and rushes around with a fiery cross* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) Heretic! Burn him! *screams loudly and rushes around with a fiery cross* Hehehe. Good belly laugh. I knew someone would pounce on me for that. Peace & Love! BTW I respect Jesus too. Edited March 24, 2010 by Marblehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 24, 2010 Hehehe. Good belly laugh. I knew someone would pounce on me for that. Peace & Love! BTW I respect Jesus too. Marbles, Do you mean you respect this woman? JC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 Marbles, Do you mean you respect this woman? JC You're a woman? Just shows you how unassuming (or assuming) I can be. You have always been my little buddy. Yes, I have much respect for you. In fact I have respect for nearly all the members of this board. Anyhow, I'm surprised that I haven't recieved any rebutals to my post above. Or at least a question for clarification. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nanashi Posted March 24, 2010 (edited) Marblehead: Did not Jesus preserve his "honor" (loose use of that word here) by abandoning his body? Mal: Haha, no problem-- your thread invited a livelier discussion than mine did anyway. Edited March 24, 2010 by Nanashi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
That Guy Posted March 25, 2010 "The Way to be Followed Alone" depend on no one and nothing but yourself, you are ready to walk alone so you can be the best at what you do, in his case swordsmanship. Accept everything just the way it is. You're not here to change the world, stop sulking and get working with whats there Do not seek pleasure for its own sake. pleasure is just a feeling that will pass, it has no good long term investment Do not, under any circumstances, depend on a partial feeling. dont make guesses. You have a feeling this guy is gonna swing his sword from left to right? well dont bet your life on it! Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world. you'll be fine as long as you have the world figured out Be detached from desire your whole life long. dont be led astray from your real goals Do not regret what you have done. maybe includes feeling bad about men you have cut down in duels? Never be jealous. leads to unwise decisions Never let yourself be saddened by a separation. Life goes on, you had a good time, move on you have nothing to gain by feeling sad (doesnt mean you cant look back and feel good from the happy times you had) Resentment and complaint are appropriate neither for oneself nor others. waste of time annd energy for one who goes the way to be followed alone Do not let yourself be guided by the feeling of lust or love. Love and lust, but dont be GUIDED by it In all things have no preferences. just do what you gotta do with what you got Be indifferent to where you live. just live where conditions are best for you at the moment Do not pursue the taste of good food. eat food that makes you strong, forget taste Do not hold on to possessions you no longer need. can be heavy carrying too much stuff on your own Do not act following customary beliefs. do not follow something just because others do Do not collect weapons or practice with weapons beyond what is useful. weapons arent for show, they have 1 sole purpose, and thats the only one that matters Do not fear death. Do not FEAR death, doesnt mean you dont care if you die. Fear can get you killed. Do not seek to possess either goods or fiefs for your old age. your prime time of life when you're strong will be wasted trying to make money. you can always make money when you're old, but you can never be at your prime once the time has passed. Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help. respect for a higher power, but remember you're the only one who is gonna save your own ass in a pinch You may abandon your own body but you must preserve your honour. if you're a true warrior you knew from the start your life was gonna be on the line each duel, so if you're gonna die, die with honour Never stray from the Way. enough said :angry: :angry: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
