Raz Posted March 24, 2010 Optimal happines: including reason, but being grounded primerily in no reason you can not become happy without reason you can only be happy without reason all reason will eventualy pass no reason will forever last Happy reason, from no reason... in touch with prime source... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 24, 2010 you can not become happy without reason Hi Raz, Did you mean "you can not become happy with reason"? This would be more consistent with the rest of what you said. I don't know about "optimal" happiness though. Do you mean abiding happiness? Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 25, 2010 How about this? Hi Raz, I actually agree with what you are driving at. Just wanted to get a little more clarification for others who might read this thread. Thanks. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Posted March 25, 2010 Hi Raz, I actually agree with what you are driving at. Just wanted to get a little more clarification for others who might read this thread. Thanks. Peace & Love! I aprisiate your intention =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 25, 2010 I aprisiate your intention =) Hi Raz, Okay. So, do you feel you have attained optimal happiness? If so, Why? And if not, Why not? Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Posted March 28, 2010 do you feel you have attained optimal happiness? If so, Why? And if not, Why not? Peace & Love! I do not belive that happiness is something that is attained but rather an alowense of a inate dynamic flow. I dont think I fully understand what happiness is as I belive hard knowing hinders the soft dynamic creative flowing. I have some understanding that I work with as guide lines, like exploring a dynamic point of view that I intend to flow in the direction that is optimal for the moment im in. I also try not to get absorbed by any one point of view as I do not belive there is a absolute true view to be had in this body. I try to stay grounded in the totality of my being and not get self absorbed by detail. Aprisiating all that is within my power. living simply to simply live. with a state of gratitude comes peace and joy. I don't like the word optimal. To me it means optimal as in for efficiency. It is a scientfic way of thinking not a natural way of thinking. I think everything has it's place as it is. No need for anything to be optimized. Things dont' need to be optimal they just need to be as they are. To have something optimal emplies doing something to make it optimal which is the opposite of spirituality where we should be doing less and less and finally nothing. I belive that optimal is what is. (Without exception) This universe is Optimal for our universal colective growth. I used to think that everything is perfect, but I feel that viewing everything as optimal is more dynamic and closer to the truth. Not trying to impose how I live on anyone... Just sharing my point of view. Do/view how ever works for you =) /In Love Raz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 28, 2010 I do not belive that happiness is something that is attained but rather an alowense of a inate dynamic flow. I dont think I fully understand what happiness is as I belive hard knowing hinders the soft dynamic creative flowing. I have some understanding that I work with as guide lines, like exploring a dynamic point of view that I intend to flow in the direction that is optimal for the moment im in. I also try not to get absorbed by any one point of view as I do not belive there is a absolute true view to be had in this body. I try to stay grounded in the totality of my being and not get self absorbed by detail. Aprisiating all that is within my power. living simply to simply live. with a state of gratitude comes peace and joy. Nice response to my questions ... Although you didn't answer them. Hehehe. You would make a good politician. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Posted March 29, 2010 Okay. So, do you feel you have attained optimal happiness? If so, Why? And if not, Why not? Peace & Love! No I have not attained optimal happiness. I have but recognized it =) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 29, 2010 No I have not attained optimal happiness. I have but recognized it =) Alright!!!!! Recognition is the first step. Observing those times when you recognise it will allow you to place importance on the conditions that allowed for the recognition. Over time you will be able to intentionally bring forth those conditions so that the experience can be had more often. Gradually you will be able to even stop trying to find it and yet it will come to you naturally. Best Wishes! Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz Posted March 29, 2010 Alright!!!!! Recognition is the first step. Observing those times when you recognise it will allow you to place importance on the conditions that allowed for the recognition. Over time you will be able to intentionally bring forth those conditions so that the experience can be had more often. Gradually you will be able to even stop trying to find it and yet it will come to you naturally. Best Wishes! Peace & Love! indeed! good post =) I belive that taking ownage over your own atitude is key. it is my main power within me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 29, 2010 indeed! good post =) I belive that taking ownage over your own atitude is key. it is my main power within me. Yep. I won't mention here the concepts of free will, choices or taking responsibility for one's actions. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarsonZi Posted March 29, 2010 (edited) ..... Edited March 29, 2010 by CarsonZi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarsonZi Posted March 29, 2010 Hi Marblehead, Raz and All Observing those times when you recognise it will allow you to place importance on the conditions that allowed for the recognition. Over time you will be able to intentionally bring forth those conditions so that the experience can be had more often. Gradually you will be able to even stop trying to find it and yet it will come to you naturally. Happiness is not based on any conditions. In fact true happiness is conditionless. True happiness can only come from within, and no external circumstances can affect this. True happiness is the result of a permanent grounding in Inner Silence. When the mind is silent, nothing can affect the state of being. Everything is known as perfect, and nothing is grasped for. This (to me) is pure unlimited, conditionless happiness....and it is like nothing else. Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 29, 2010 Hi Marblehead, Raz and All Happiness is not based on any conditions. In fact true happiness is conditionless. True happiness can only come from within, and no external circumstances can affect this. True happiness is the result of a permanent grounding in Inner Silence. When the mind is silent, nothing can affect the state of being. Everything is known as perfect, and nothing is grasped for. This (to me) is pure unlimited, conditionless happiness....and it is like nothing else. Love! Hi CarsonZi, I totally agree with what you have said. But there is a journey one must make before ones arrives at that state of happiness you spoke to. I think happiness come to us in stages as we travel our path. Until we have achieved inner peace and contentment happiness will come to us only in spurts. These spurts gradually build to a stream, then to a river then to the ocean and its depths. That's where abiding happiness lies. Yes, we have gone beyond condition because externals no longer effect our happiness. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarsonZi Posted March 30, 2010 Hey Marblehead Great to converse with you again, it's been a while I think happiness come to us in stages as we travel our path. Until we have achieved inner peace and contentment happiness will come to us only in spurts. These spurts gradually build to a stream, then to a river then to the ocean and its depths. That's where abiding happiness lies. Yes, we have gone beyond condition because externals no longer effect our happiness. In my experience and those I know who live from a place of abiding happiness there is only one way to "get there".....it is through the (twice) daily cultivation of Silence through meditation. Happiness that comes "in spurts" is not really happiness as this is happiness based on conditions and is fleeting at best since conditions are constantly changing. The only thing that does not change is Silence. When one lives from a place of Silence then we have gone beyond all conditions and can truly live from a place of abiding happiness. Just one mans experience though. Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
contrivedname! Posted March 30, 2010 Hey Marblehead Great to converse with you again, it's been a while In my experience and those I know who live from a place of abiding happiness there is only one way to "get there".....it is through the (twice) daily cultivation of Silence through meditation. Happiness that comes "in spurts" is not really happiness as this is happiness based on conditions and is fleeting at best since conditions are constantly changing. The only thing that does not change is Silence. When one lives from a place of Silence then we have gone beyond all conditions and can truly live from a place of abiding happiness. Just one mans experience though. Love! Hey Carson, What do you mean by 'meditation'? what do you mean by 'silence'? if there is a twice daily 'form' of meditation required, isn't this happiness dependent on conditions? if silence is required, is that yet another condition? is there such a thing as abiding in true happiness? if you can abide, is it also possible to depart? -Chris how long ago was that pic? is the child born yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 30, 2010 Hey Marblehead Great to converse with you again, it's been a while In my experience and those I know who live from a place of abiding happiness there is only one way to "get there".....it is through the (twice) daily cultivation of Silence through meditation. Happiness that comes "in spurts" is not really happiness as this is happiness based on conditions and is fleeting at best since conditions are constantly changing. The only thing that does not change is Silence. When one lives from a place of Silence then we have gone beyond all conditions and can truly live from a place of abiding happiness. Just one mans experience though. Love! Hi Carson, Yes, it has been a while. You have been hiding. Hehehe. Again, I will agree except for specifying any particular path or journey. (You know how I feel about dogma. Hehehe.) But yes, silence and meditation is good. Allows us time to look within so that we don't rely on externals for our happiness. Of course, this is the reasoning behind the idea of living one's life in the state of 'wu wei'. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarsonZi Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Hey contrivedname!, Marblehead and All contrivedname! said:"What do you mean by 'meditation'? what do you mean by 'silence'?" When I say "meditation" I am talking about any practice that stills the mind, any practice that allows the mind to go beyond thought and rest in Silence. When I say "Silence" I mean the lack of "mind-modifications". contrivedname! said:"if there is a twice daily 'form' of meditation required, isn't this happiness dependent on conditions? if silence is required, is that yet another condition?" There is no specific form of "meditation" required. "Meditation" is just a word and as A Course In Miracles says: "Words are but symbols of symbols thus twice removed from Reality". Meditation is not "required", all that is required to allow the mind to rest, to allow the mind to be silent. I guess from a certain perspective this could be considered a "condition" required for happiness....but really it is the lack of conditions. Silence could again (from some perspectives) be considered a condition required for happiness, but it too could also be considered the lack of conditions.....when you have bypassed all form, all thought, all "mind modifications", what you have left is Silence. And when we live from a place of Silence the only emotion ever felt is pure, blissful, unconditional Love..... which to me is "abiding happiness"....or in the case of this thread "optimal happiness" contrivedname! said:"is there such a thing as abiding in true happiness?" Again, words are but symbols of symbols, and I have little desire to try and define things (especially for others), but for the sake of conversation, yes, there is such a thing as abiding in "true happiness". We would have to come to a common definition of "true happiness" for this to be true for everyone, which I have no desire to do, but from the perspective here, the (lack of) condition(s) that the words "true happiness" points to, is "true happiness" for me. contrivedname! said:"if you can abide, is it also possible to depart?" Yes. contrivedname! said:"how long ago was that pic? is the child born yet? That picture was taken 2 days ago. On Sunday the wife and I had a friend come over to take some "maternity" pictures as well as some pictures of me doing an asana practice.....so no, our little daughter (Amrita Grace Zi ) is not born yet....she is due on June 2nd. Marblehead said:"Yes, it has been a while. You have been hiding. Hehehe." I have been very busy lately. Dee (aka "the wife" ) and I moved into a new home near the end of February and I have been renovating it like crazy getting it ready for baby Amrita to arrive, I have been teaching a lot of yoga lately, and have been deeply engrossed in writing articles as well as helping Yogani by writing the "hands-on AYP lesson plans" and am now starting to put together both an AYP Teacher Certification program and some online AYP classes too. Spare time seems to be a thing of the past Marblehead said:"Again, I will agree except for specifying any particular path or journey. (You know how I feel about dogma. Hehehe.)" Not trying to specify any particular path or journey. I just know that in my experience, and in the experience of many others that I know, the only way to come to a place of living in "optimal happiness" ( ) is to stop the mind from analyzing, comparing, and otherwise trying to "modify" the reality of what is. How each of us gets to this point is up to them. Marblehead said:"But yes, silence and meditation is good. Allows us time to look within so that we don't rely on externals for our happiness." All is within Marblehead said:"Of course, this is the reasoning behind the idea of living one's life in the state of 'wu wei'." Yup....different words all pointing to the same Truth. Love! Edited March 30, 2010 by CarsonZi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 30, 2010 Yes Indeed Carson, sounds like you ave been very busy. And I'm sure things won't slow down much for you when that new life enters your world. Best Wishes to All!!! And yes, I always like to speak out regarding practices and dogma while trying hard to not actually cut any down because we all are individuals and what works well for one might not work at all for someone else. In this a person won't get too depressed if one practice doesn't work. Hopefully they will keep an open mind and try a different way. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
contrivedname! Posted March 30, 2010 thanks for expanding on what you meant carson, now its much clearer. i am largely in agreement, not much further to comment on. Amrita, a name of many meanings perhaps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CarsonZi Posted March 30, 2010 (edited) Hi contrivedname! thanks for expanding on what you meant carson, now its much clearer. i am largely in agreement, not much further to comment on. Awesome! Glad we can (largely) agree Amrita, a name of many meanings perhaps? Yes for sure! A few quotes from the Wiki page here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita "Amrita or Amrit (Sanskrit: अमृत) is a Sanskrit word that literally means "that which is immortal", and is often referred to in texts as nectar." "Amrit is repeatedly referred to as the drink of the gods, which grants them immortality" "In yogic philosophy (see yoga, Hindu philosophy) amrita is a fluid that can flow from the pituitary gland down the throat in deep states of meditation. It is considered quite a boon: some yogic texts say that one drop is enough to conquer death and achieve immortality." I don't want to hijack the thread here but in short, my wife and I didn't pick the name Amrita Grace. I was told in a dream that this was what we were supposed to name her. The conception of this child has dramatically changed my life, mostly through dreams. It may sound wierd but I was given shaktipat in a dream by my daughter (who looked like she was in her mid 20's in the dream and was the star pupil of a "kundalini facilitation" class). This dramatically changed the energy flow in my body. Also, both my wife and I knew on the 50th day after conception as soon as we woke up that it was going to be a girl due to a mutual dream we had about her. This was confirmed during an ultrasound in late January. There is a bunch of other stuff too but...... Love! Edited March 30, 2010 by CarsonZi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted March 30, 2010 fulfillment? Yes, that will get you there if you play your cards right. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
