The Tao & The Monothesitic God

[Zero Sum]

In Christianity God is the Source of everything and works in Mysterious ways.

 

Does anyone who comes from a Western/Christian Background adapt their previous Monotheistic belief to the Tao?

 

Could the Tao be another way of approaching God?

 

(Apologies to anyone I have offended. Not my intention).

[baiqi]

I am not offended.

 

There is at least one Chinese religion that took the Christian God and mixed it with Chinese beliefs. It's called yi guan da (I kuan-tao), and it exists in Taiwan in particular. (Not in the mainland, for political reasons I won't deatail.)

 

"God" is the same idea as the "Dao", excepted that:

 

- The Dao isn't a person, nor anything like it. One does not define it. It is not a ruler of the universe, more a void principle doing everything, by being empty. On the other hand, the Christian God is very "full"

- You don't pray to the Dao, it won't answer you! There are (lots of) other gods you pray to in religious Daoism.

- It doesn't send you to hell if you did wrong, nor in heaven in the opposite case.

- It did not send its son on earth...

- there is not opposite to it, like a Christian "devil". Again, that doesn't mean that there is no "evil" but it is only a relative thing. The Dao is always neutral.

- it is not jealous

- you don't need to call it "almighty", actually, Lao Zi said you could call it "small", and Zhuang Zi said you could find it even in excrements. (everywhere means...absolutely everywhere)

 

 

I believe however that all mystics referred to only one thing, whatever the place and time...But it was distorted by the views of common men.

[de_paradise]

Edited March 29, 2010 by de_paradise

[Trogdorf]

[Marblehead]

In Christianity God is the Source of everything and works in Mysterious ways.

 

Does anyone who comes from a Western/Christian Background adapt their previous Monotheistic belief to the Tao?

 

Could the Tao be another way of approaching God?

 

(Apologies to anyone I have offended. Not my intention).

 

I was not offended either and most of y'all know that I am an Atheist.

 

I was raised Christian.

 

When I started my search I threw out all gods and started from the beginning. I found no gods I wanted to include in my new path.

 

However, I see no conflict with incorporating gods into their Taoist path. Hey, some forms of Religious Taoism have many gods.

 

I actually don't even see a conflict with incorporating the Christian's concept of god with their Taoist path.

 

I think it is all good if it aids one in living a more virtuous life.

 

Peace & Love!

[shaolin]

Matter can not be created. everything is matter or depends on matter.

 

Everything is limited and limited things can not create themselves or anything else.

 

Matter cant create its self or anything else. Create means to come in to existance from nothing at all.

 

So how did everything come in to existance?

 

There must be only ONE unlimited thing that is unlike everything else that which are limited to create the matter to begin with.

 

Limited = anything with a beginning, an end, a height, shape, width, weight or can be measured in anyway or depends on anything else.

 

Unlimited = without even one of the qualities of limited.

 

Create = to come from nothing.

 

God is unlimited, Tao is a description that can not describe God but is sometimes used to but always misses the mark.

 

God is singular, and not an idol made of matter , nor a human made of matter which are limited.

 

have a look at previous posts on limitless and can anything create its self or anything else.

[~jK~]

I was not offended either and most of y'all know that I am an Atheist.

 

I was raised Christian.

 

When I started my search I threw out all gods and started from the beginning. I found no gods I wanted to include in my new path.

 

However, I see no conflict with incorporating gods into their Taoist path. Hey, some forms of Religious Taoism have many gods.

 

I actually don't even see a conflict with incorporating the Christian's concept of god with their Taoist path.

 

I think it is all good if it aids one in living a more virtuous life.

 

Peace & Love!

I was also raised in Christianity - but now a Buddhist- which is not a religion.

 

I see religions as only having one root cause - WAR - which I am against.

 

WAR is Rich man's gain for Poor man's pain. It is both that simple and that Insaine.

 

The religion of Christianity was begun 300 years after the alleged existance - for War.

 

It was used by the Emperor Constantine to give soldiers a thinking that they will survive with a thinking of honor etc... http://www.roman-empire.net/decline/constantine-index.html

The Emperor and his mother are the first 2 saints of Catholocism church. Go figure.

 

According to this website: http://www.roman-empire.net/decline/constantine-index.html he was also the beginnings of the Holy Crusade wars with Iran (Persia)- and the decline of Rome. - Same as is happening Today.

[contrivedname!]

I was also raised in Christianity - but now a Buddhist- which is not a religion.

 

I see religions as only having one root cause - WAR - which I am against.

 

WAR is Rich man's gain for Poor man's pain. It is both that simple and that Insaine.

 

The religion of Christianity was begun 300 years after the alleged existance - for War.

 

It was used by the Emperor Constantine to give soldiers a thinking that they will survive with a thinking of honor etc... http://www.roman-empire.net/decline/constantine-index.html

The Emperor and his mother are the first 2 saints of Catholocism church. Go figure.

 

According to this website: http://www.roman-empire.net/decline/constantine-index.html he was also the beginnings of the Holy Crusade wars with Iran (Persia)- and the decline of Rome. - Same as is happening Today.

 

here is a scholarly article on religious buddhist violence for those interested:

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/slrv.htm Titled: Buddhist Nationalism and Religious Violence in Sri Lanka.

[Marblehead]

I was also raised in Christianity - but now a Buddhist- which is not a religion.

 

Yes. Agree. Just as with Taoism, there are non-religious Buddhists and religious Buddhists.

 

Peace & Love!

[bukejian]

Matter can not be created. everything is matter or depends on matter.

 

Everything is limited and limited things can not create themselves or anything else.

 

Matter cant create its self or anything else. Create means to come in to existance from nothing at all.

 

So how did everything come in to existance?

 

There must be only ONE unlimited thing that is unlike everything else that which are limited to create the matter to begin with.

 

Limited = anything with a beginning, an end, a height, shape, width, weight or can be measured in anyway or depends on anything else.

 

Unlimited = without even one of the qualities of limited.

 

Create = to come from nothing.

 

God is unlimited, Tao is a description that can not describe God but is sometimes used to but always misses the mark.

 

God is singular, and not an idol made of matter , nor a human made of matter which are limited.

 

have a look at previous posts on limitless and can anything create its self or anything else.

 

 

 

 

Then who or what created God?

[Marblehead]

Then who or what created God?

 

Shall we nail one foot to the floor and go for a walk?

 

Peace & Love!

[shaolin]

As God is unlimited and does not share any limiting attriubtes, God is incomprehendible. To see something or to be able to analyse something, we would need to measure it in some way or another. If a thing can be meausred , then it is limited and can not be the unlimited God.

 

We can get to the understanding of the existance of God through deduction buy looking at what exists around us and the fact that they are not able to create themselves or anything else. So there must be One unlimited thing to create them in the first place, because limited things are not able to do that. Matter can not create its self or anything else, thats a fact. Matter is as small as a sub atomic particle, of which everything else is made.

 

To have a beginning or end or to be contained in time or space are all limitations and can not be applied to something that is unlimited.

 

So the unlimited is beyond having a beginning or end and or being contained in time or space. Something beginningless can not be created.

[shaolin]

To be created is to be contained in time and space. So at a particular time, something did not exist, but at a later point in time it came in to existance.

 

The One beyond time and space created it and is not contained or limited by it.

[Marblehead]

But then if you accept the "Big Bang" theory you don't need a god so you don't have to explain it.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

Matter can not be created. everything is matter or depends on matter.

 

 

 

Matter can be created and destroyed. For instance in an atomic explosion where matter is released as energy.

[Apech]

But then if you accept the "Big Bang" theory you don't need a god so you don't have to explain it.

 

Peace & Love!

 

The standard Big Bang cosmological model is full of holes ... its cannot explain everything.

[suninmyeyes]

I love God .He rocks my world.

[shaolin]

The Big Bang is a theory , that doent answer what caused the big bang.

It also poses some major problems when dealing with the effects of the singularity from where time and space began according to the theory.

 

"There was a lot of resistance to the idea of a big bang singularity among physicists and cosmologisists when it was first mooted. One reason for this concerns the fact that matter space and time are linked in the general theory of relativity. This linkage carries important implications for the nature of the expanding universe. Naively, one might suppose that the galaxies are rushing apart through space. A more accurate picture, however, is to envisage space itself as swelling or streching. That is,the galaxies move apart because the space between them expands. Conversely, in the past, space was shrunken. If we consider the moment of infinite compression, space was infinitley shrunk. But if space is infinitly shrunk, it must literately dissapear, like a baloon that shrivels to nothing. And the all important linkage of space, time and matter further implies that time must dissapear too. There can be no time without space. Thus the material singularity is also a space - time singularty. Because all our laws of physics are formulated in terms of space and time, these laws cannot apply beyond the point at which space and time cease to exist. Hence the laws of physics must break down at the singularity. The picture that we then obtain for the origin of the universe is a remarkable one. At some finite instant in the past the universe of space, time, and matter is bounded by a space - time singularity. THE COMING INTO BEING OF THE UNIVERSE IS THEREFORE REPRESENTED NOT ONLY BY THE ABRUPT APPEARANCE OF MATTER,BUT OF SPACE AND TIME AS WELL"

"The mind of God"..... Professer Paul Davies pg 49-50

He continuse the big bang didn't occur at a point in space at all. Space it's self came into existance with the big bang. Time it's self began with the big bang.

 

This means that if you follow the theory of the big bang you must except 1) that you cannot answer beyond the singularity i.e. what caused it or what was there before it and 2) you must except whatever did cause it, IS beyond space and time and seperate from the universe not being part of it at all. Being beyound space and time means we cant ask "who created it", because everything came after the creation of space and time.

 

The Big Bang Theory claims that everything, space , time, the whole universe and everything that it contains was so small it was totally invisible and then expanded out to create everything we see today. Does that really seem believable?

 

The laws that exist in our universe are precise. The earth would freeze or be set a blaze if just once during its history, it moved even an inch out of its range of orbit, floating unsuspended in space.

 

Big Bangs destroy things, they dont create order.

 

How many construction firms do you know who get a pile of bricks and blow them up and then..........you have a shopping mall with 5 floors and different shops fully furnished? Even a simple watch, if you were to smash the glass case in to hundreds of parts , and cut the straps in to many parts and then cut the hands which tell the time in to hundreds of parts and then place the contents in to a cup and empty it on the floor, do you thing it would come together and start telling you the time?

 

I'd love to see a demonstration.

 

We are spoon fed theories that are taken as fact, but when we look at them , we see that they dont answer anything.

[shaolin]

Create meaning something coming from nothing. Anything else is manufacturing because it comes from something else. Like heat being produced when two hands are rubbed together. The heat has not come from nothing it has come from something.

 

Its a scientific fact that matter can not be created or destroyed. "so they say".

[shaolin]

When the term "God" is used, it can not apply to any limited or created being.

 

Therefore God can not be a human or a tree or a carved stone. And can not be part human or stone or tree.

 

So this would exclude the teachings of the anonymous authors of the Bible and the addition of God being a man who was born and died. It only stands for Monotheism.

[Marblehead]

The standard Big Bang cosmological model is full of holes ... its cannot explain everything.

 

I can't explain everything either but I'm still the 'real thing'.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

I love God .He rocks my world.

 

Hi SunInYourEyes,

 

(The sun was in my eyes earlier when I was working outside.)

 

That's great! I don't even have a single problem with that. When I speak to subjects such as this I speak only for myself.

 

Hang in there.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

When the term "God" is used, it can not apply to any limited or created being.

 

Therefore God can not be a human or a tree or a carved stone. And can not be part human or stone or tree.

 

So this would exclude the teachings of the anonymous authors of the Bible and the addition of God being a man who was born and died. It only stands for Monotheism.

 

Hi Shaolin,

 

Boy! You got on that horse and rode for a while, didn't you? Hehehe.

 

First, I agree with the quote above regarding the big bang. I disagree with the statement that singularity was so small it was invisible as this is contrary to what I have heard astro-physicists say. Yes, it was small but not invisible (if there were anything to observe it, which there weren't).

 

Regarding the cause of the big bang the Taoist term "Tzujan" covers that. It happened because it was its nature to do so. All on its own without any external cause.

 

I agree with most everything else you said, including your rationale regarding the essence of god.

 

And you are right, the big bang theory does not answer all the questions and probably never will. But that doesn't really matter at this point in time. (For me anyway.)

 

Perhaps more answers are on the way because many scientists are working on the theories of dark matter and dark energy. If these are proven to be so and can be measured a lot more questions will be answered.

 

Peace & Love!

[shaolin]

Yes , its possible to learn more in the future as its equally possible that we may learn nothing more at all. All we know is what we know right now and that is fact until it is shown to be false.

 

With regard to dark matter, scientists say it does not exist and is made up to make other theories stand as being credible.

 

I'd reccomend The Mind Of God by Paul Davies. He covers the theories from both scientific and relogious ( christian) view points and analyses them.

 

Its very deep stuff and he's very objective. Not that the above theories are to be taken as being correct.

[Marblehead]

Yes , its possible to learn more in the future as its equally possible that we may learn nothing more at all. All we know is what we know right now and that is fact until it is shown to be false.

 

With regard to dark matter, scientists say it does not exist and is made up to make other theories stand as being credible.

 

I'd reccomend The Mind Of God by Paul Davies. He covers the theories from both scientific and relogious ( christian) view points and analyses them.

 

Its very deep stuff and he's very objective. Not that the above theories are to be taken as being correct.

 

Yep. There are tons of opinions. A lot fewer facts. I still hold to the theory of dark matter because it is consistent with the concept of "Mystery" in Taoist philosophy. Some refer to anti-matter as being the same as dark matter. Of course, that cannot be measured at this time either.

 

I watch the Science Channel and associated science/nature stuff on the TV and occasionally do a search on the net if I have a special interest.

 

Peace & Love!