Knowledge, Belief, Faith

[trailmaker]

Old, old questions. How about Awareness?

 

Just some fun, thinkin'.

[Marblehead]

Old, old questions. How about Awareness?

 

Just some fun, thinkin'.

 

Yep. Awareness is important when talking about knowledge, beleifs, and faith.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

My take on belief is this. When someone starts on a journey they have to believe that they can get to the end, to the destination - or at least that it is possible. When an astronomer looks through his telescope he believes that it is possible the understand the universe in which we live. When a doctor is working he believes it is possible to cure (or at least alleviate pain). And so on. In other words belief is not about the kind of blind acceptance that religion often seems to demand but is just a kind of confidence that it is possible to understand, or possible to be a better person or possible to grow spiritually.

 

Faith is much the same being the energy of belief - what drives people to go further in understanding or to be generous to their fellow beings and so on. A good word is 'confidence' which means 'with faith' - this is a key to cultivation or energy work - to follow the way and step by step through experience build you initial belief that it can work into confidence that it is working. This is a very strong approach which will carry you through difficult times.

 

Knowledge is in two ways. Intellectual knowledge and wisdom knowledge. Intellectual knowledge is from thinking and studying and is very important and its importance should not be dismissed. For instance you might read the classics of philosophical Taoism in order to get a really clear idea about the Tao.

 

Wisdom knowledge is when the way becomes ingrained into your being, becomes part of you. The answers to questions are natural and spontaneous. To some degree you don't just know it, you are it.

 

Anyway that's my contribution for now.

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited March 30, 2010 by apepch7

[trailmaker]

My take on belief is this. When someone starts on a journey they have to believe that they can get to the end, to the destination - or at least that it is possible. When an astronomer looks through his telescope he believes that it is possible the understand the universe in which we live. When a doctor is working he believes it is possible to cure (or at least alleviate pain). And so on. In other words belief is not about the kind of blind acceptance that religion often seems to demand but is just a kind of confidence that it is possible to understand, or possible to be a better person or possible to grow spiritually.

 

Faith is much the same being the energy of belief - what drives people to go further in understanding or to be generous to their fellow beings and so on. A good word is 'confidence' which means 'with faith' - this is a key to cultivation or energy work - to follow the way and step by step through experience build you initial belief that it can work into confidence that it is working. This is a very strong approach which will carry you through difficult times.

 

Knowledge is in two ways. Intellectual knowledge and wisdom knowledge. Intellectual knowledge is from thinking and studying and is very important and its importance should not be dismissed. For instance you might read the classics of philosophical Taoism in order to get a really clear idea about the Tao.

 

Wisdom knowledge is when the way becomes ingrained into your being, becomes part of you. The answers to questions are natural and spontaneous. To some degree you don't just know it, you are it.

 

Anyway that's my contribution for now.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

Sure just like that - nice take - fun thinking...

[fizix]

awesomely Taoist star wars quotes anyone???

 

"do or do not, there is no try"

-Yoda

[trailmaker]

Yup Yoda was pretty much wu wei being.

 

Long since Beamed Up good old soul...

[Birch]

I'm confident in my faith that I know almost nothing (or something like that )

 

It IS so easy to mix everything up. Lots of things are based on our faith that others know better than we do, even if they don't.

[trailmaker]

I'm confident in my faith that I know almost nothing (or something like that )

 

It IS so easy to mix everything up. Lots of things are based on our faith that others know better than we do, even if they don't.

 

Yes, the mix-up - pretty safe haven to know that you don't know (of course until you Do...)

[de_paradise]

For cultivators, the conviction or belief of the end result, enlightenment, immortality of some form, and beyond is helpful but not necessary. One could practise on a step by step basis, a small energetic experience should be enough proof that larger energetic experiences are possible. I find most people FAIL to EXTRAPOLATE from their experiences that lead them to the conclusion that cultivation is helpful. (new agers) I often wonder why there are not more cultivators in the world. One should at least test to see if a higher level is possible, because the stakes are so high, like Pascal's wager. The payoff is so great that even if the probability of that immortality or enlightenment exists, and the probability of attainment is slim, it is still worth pursuing that end.

[Seth Ananda]

For Me it is like this:

 

We are full of knowledge.

The knowledge we choose to believe we maintain with our Faith.

 

Everything we think we know about ourselves and others and the world is the assortment of knowledge we have chosen to believe.

 

Knowledge is not True. There is Zero truth in knowledge. That doesn't make knowledge bad, in fact knowledge is quite useful, such as giving us the ability to communicate through our knowledge of the Language/s we speak.

 

The problems start when we can no longer see that the knowledge tools that we use are just shared agreed upon constructs, and not at all the Truth.

 

That's when knowledge becomes beliefs... and we all have seen what that leads to. I like the observation that in the middle of the word beLIEve you find the word LIE.

 

To me all beLIEfs are Inherently LIE's.

 

The power of our Faith is strong and holds together all our precious world views and all our opinions about our Self and Others.

 

The Truth is already there with out words and knowledge.

 

When you realise all your beliefs are just Lies, and cease believing in any construct made with words, then you are beginning to see Truth. But that Truth can not be put into words. The minute you do, it is no longer Truth and just a construct.

 

To me when I remove my Faith from all my beliefs and pull that house of cards down, My energy returns to me, and I see Truth which frees me into a vast openness. Also I gain Silent Knowledge which is Knowledge without words, Or Knowing. To me Knowing has Zero reliance on thoughts, words, concepts or beliefs and is always Right. I trust it 100%. I guess I could say that I am removing my faith from Lies and putting it in myself even though I will never know what I am.

 

Learning this has made all the debates and arguments I used to have in my head and with others about Self/not Self seem irrelevant and useless, Pure Lie Battles. It all seems so simple now.

 

Seth

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Why is it so hot.. and, why am i in this hand-basket?

 

Be well..

[三江源]

For cultivators, the conviction or belief of the end result, enlightenment, immortality of some form, and beyond is helpful but not necessary. One could practise on a step by step basis, a small energetic experience should be enough proof that larger energetic experiences are possible.

 

 

this one.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

The quality of the interpretation is dependent upon the degree of Clarity.. "still the mind".

[CarsonZi]

For Me it is like this:

 

We are full of knowledge.

The knowledge we choose to believe we maintain with our Faith.

 

Everything we think we know about ourselves and others and the world is the assortment of knowledge we have chosen to believe.

 

Knowledge is not True. There is Zero truth in knowledge. That doesn't make knowledge bad, in fact knowledge is quite useful, such as giving us the ability to communicate through our knowledge of the Language/s we speak.

 

The problems start when we can no longer see that the knowledge tools that we use are just shared agreed upon constructs, and not at all the Truth.

 

That's when knowledge becomes beliefs... and we all have seen what that leads to. I like the observation that in the middle of the word beLIEve you find the word LIE.

 

To me all beLIEfs are Inherently LIE's.

 

The power of our Faith is strong and holds together all our precious world views and all our opinions about our Self and Others.

 

The Truth is already there with out words and knowledge.

 

When you realise all your beliefs are just Lies, and cease believing in any construct made with words, then you are beginning to see Truth. But that Truth can not be put into words. The minute you do, it is no longer Truth and just a construct.

 

To me when I remove my Faith from all my beliefs and pull that house of cards down, My energy returns to me, and I see Truth which frees me into a vast openness. Also I gain Silent Knowledge which is Knowledge without words, Or Knowing. To me Knowing has Zero reliance on thoughts, words, concepts or beliefs and is always Right. I trust it 100%. I guess I could say that I am removing my faith from Lies and putting it in myself even though I will never know what I am.

 

Learning this has made all the debates and arguments I used to have in my head and with others about Self/not Self seem irrelevant and useless, Pure Lie Battles. It all seems so simple now.

 

Seth

 

 

This is probably one of the best posts I have ever read on TheTaoBums.....

 

A deep bow of gratitude SethAnanda _/\_

 

Love!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Seth, your post reminds me of the realizations of a 'stilled mind'.. without the mind chattering away, telling us what to 'believe', telling us which mentor's 'programming' best solves the current situation, without the mind chattering.. there is simply Clarity, of Life as it IS..

 

Be well..

[Seth Ananda]

This is probably one of the best posts I have ever read on TheTaoBums.....

 

A deep bow of gratitude SethAnanda _/\_

 

Love!

Thanks CarsonZi

 

I first came across these Ideas In the works of Don Miguel Ruiz.

I have read his 4 agreements 12 times and it took at least 8 reads to really start to get the underlying message in his books. I also read his others several Times each and can't recommend them enough. The 'Voice of Knowledge' is an amazing book to read as well, and His all time best IMO is his new one 'The Fifth Agreement'.

The thing I love is it requires no meditation (I still love meditation) or beliefs and you just 'get it' slowly, just by having it pointed out over and over again, you just start to 'See' it obviously.

To me it is real Wisdom training. Once you are aware of it, it can't be taken away as its not a set of beliefs.

 

Blessings, Seth.

[CarsonZi]

Hi Seth

 

I first came across these Ideas In the works of Don Miguel Ruiz.

I have read his 4 agreements 12 times and it took at least 8 reads to really start to get the underlying message in his books. I also read his others several Times each and can't recommend them enough. The 'Voice of Knowledge' is an amazing book to read as well, and His all time best IMO is his new one 'The Fifth Agreement'.

The thing I love is it requires no meditation (I still love meditation) or beliefs and you just 'get it' slowly, just by having it pointed out over and over again, you just start to 'See' it obviously.

To me it is real Wisdom training. Once you are aware of it, it can't be taken away as its not a set of beliefs.

 

Although I have never personally read any of Don Miguel Ruiz, he comes highly recommended and I even have a friend who is bringing him into Toronto in the next few weeks to do a seminar....if you are in that area you can check it out here: http://inspirationalworks.info/

 

I have come to the same conclusions both you and Ruiz have through my meditation/yoga practice. I was going to respond to this thread until I read your post and then I felt there was no reason....everything I wanted to say you already had.

 

To sum up what I would have said in a few sentences though, I would say this: In order to truly KNOW anything, you must first toss all thoughts, ideas and beliefs out the window. Everything you "think" you know means nothing. As Adyashanti says: "I know what I need to know when I need to know it". That kind of Knowing comes only from the heart, not from the mind. That kind of Knowing comes from Silence.

 

Again, thank you for your wonderful post. It was an inspiration to read. Namaste _/\_

 

Love!

[Seth Ananda]

Hi Seth

 

To sum up what I would have said in a few sentences though, I would say this: In order to truly KNOW anything, you must first toss all thoughts, ideas and beliefs out the window. Everything you "think" you know means nothing. As Adyashanti says: "I know what I need to know when I need to know it". That kind of Knowing comes only from the heart, not from the mind. That kind of Knowing comes from Silence.

 

 

Awesome! really well said.

I am in Aus so no on the seminar just now, but enjoy it if you are going..

I would love to meet Don Miguel one day...

Thanks _^_

[de_paradise]

This is probably one of the best posts I have ever read on TheTaoBums.....

 

A deep bow of gratitude SethAnanda _/\_

 

Love!

 

Really? My brain went TILT not even a few sentences into that thing, and skipping down a few sentences I went into sensory deprivation. Wow am I on a different vibe or what.

[Seth Ananda]

Really? My brain went TILT not even a few sentences into that thing, and skipping down a few sentences I went into sensory deprivation. Wow am I on a different vibe or what.

lol, Thanks I tilted my own brain writing it...

 

Seth

[Lucky7Strikes]

Thank you Seth, that was a wonderful post!

[三江源]

Really? My brain went TILT not even a few sentences into that thing, and skipping down a few sentences I went into sensory deprivation. Wow am I on a different vibe or what.

 

I didnt even get a few sentences in, vibe brother.

[CarsonZi]

Hey de_paradise

 

Really? My brain went TILT not even a few sentences into that thing, and skipping down a few sentences I went into sensory deprivation. Wow am I on a different vibe or what.

 

I don't read much on the TB's these days, but yeah, Seth's post was really great IMO.

 

Sensory deprivation.... not such a bad thing is it

 

Love!

[Taomeow]

To use words to assert that words are useless is one way to use words. Words are good at multitasking. To extract the idea of a LIE from the word beLIEve that contains it is a fine example of a minor alchemical transmutation on the linguistic level.

 

The linguistic level of consciousness is not exempt from tao, it's just that we are not privy to its mysteries in our everyday use -- we use words the way a baby of three months of age would use a calligraphy brush... a lack of access to the power contained in words does not mean words are powerless, it means we are. Words have every bit of power tao intended them to have, they are as much part of its fabric as the sun and the moon and the stars, we just don't have the ear to hear and the tongue to transmute.

 

The alchemist Fulcanelli asserted that English is the language of the gods, that all the esoteric knowledge they possess is encoded therein...

[Apech]

To use words to assert that words are useless is one way to use words. Words are good at multitasking. To extract the idea of a LIE from the word beLIEve that contains it is a fine example of a minor alchemical transmutation on the linguistic level.

 

The linguistic level of consciousness is not exempt from tao, it's just that we are not privy to its mysteries in our everyday use -- we use words the way a baby of three months of age would use a calligraphy brush... a lack of access to the power contained in words does not mean words are powerless, it means we are. Words have every bit of power tao intended them to have, they are as much part of its fabric as the sun and the moon and the stars, we just don't have the ear to hear and the tongue to transmute.

 

The alchemist Fulcanelli asserted that English is the language of the gods, that all the esoteric knowledge they possess is encoded therein...

 

 

Wonderful and brilliant!

 

Thank you.

 

John