Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

[exorcist_1699]

These paragraphs clearly tell us that some kind of Taoist superman or immortal is already hidden in the book Laotze. Any accusations that the later Taoist advocate of immortality / omnipotence deviates from the original Taoist spirit is in fact groundless .

 

Unfortunately in Laotze, the concept of qi , which is the basis of this hidden force, is not clearly expressed . And, without qi, Tao's greatness and power is by no means seen in this world.

 

For example, it is with qi that we can have a shield built around our body to protect us from diseases. And it is only with qi, can we have a means inside us of healing illness ourselves . With qi grasped in hands , as these paragraphs tell us ,we can even fight off many fearful beasts and be free from many potential dangers.

 

Without the concept qi and its practical force , Taoism will be limited to the arena of abstract theorization , as fragile and useless as many philosophical systems . And, it would not have become the foundation of the Chinese medicine for healing millions of patients and a major force of changing the Chinese history .

 

In fact, not only in Taoism , but in Confucianism , the role of qi as a force against all our sufferings ,adversity and dangers is explicit . So, we have terms such as : 天地正氣 , 浩然之氣. ..where qi already has become some sort of mixture of moral ,medical and practical elements.

Edited March 31, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

These paragraphs clearly tell us that some kind of Taoist superman or immortal is already hidden in the book Laotze.

 

Hi Exorcist,

 

Although I don't fully agree with everything you said above I do think that they are some excellent observations.

 

Not many translators of the TTC do a very good job with the concept of Chi, IMO. I think Wayne L Wang has done an excellent job in this regard.

 

And I agree, we can see the superman in the TTC. Most readers just don't relate to it.

 

Peace & Love!

[~jK~]

Hi Exorcist,

 

Although I don't fully agree with everything you said above I do think that they are some excellent observations.

 

Not many translators of the TTC do a very good job with the concept of Chi, IMO. I think Wayne L Wang has done an excellent job in this regard.

 

And I agree, we can see the superman in the TTC. Most readers just don't relate to it.

 

Peace & Love!

 

No Superman... That is only christian/religious/brainwashing.

 

Death is only a reincarnation based factor allowing evolution of the physical and mental existance.

 

Learn The Savasana to see the reality of Meditation: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11802-awakening-psychic-abilities/page__st__120

[Trogdorf]

Because in such men there is no place for death.

I believe people meet their end when they are "meant" to, so that does interest me somewhat...

 

What would happen if you sent an army into a war without weapons or armor??

(I have actually thought of that before haha!)

 

The failing mind shall not see light again.

I have known this to happen to people.. Those who deny reality and obsess and obsess about matters of no concern!

They all inevitably loose their minds...

 

The Christians called this "Hell" I think...

 

No Superman... That is only christian/religious/brainwashing.

What do you mean?

 

I think the TTC must have been written by an exceptional human being (or beings)...

Edited April 1, 2010 by Trogdorf

[~jK~]

I believe people meet there end when they are "meant" to, so that does interest me somewhat...

 

What would happen if you sent an army into a war without weapons or armor??

(I have actually thought of that before haha!)

 

I have known this to happen to people.. Those who deny reality and obsess and obsess about matters of no concern!

They all inevitably loose their minds...

 

The Christians called this "Hell" I think...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~jK~ wrote:

No Superman... That is only christian/religious/brainwashing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Trogdorf write:

 

What do you mean?

I think the TTC must have been written by an exceptional human being (or beings)...

 

~jK~ wrote:

If you can't understand this simple point - you have very much work to do in unclouding your mind before growth can evolve.

[exorcist_1699]

Hi Exorcist,

 

Although I don't fully agree with everything you said above I do think that they are some excellent observations.

 

Not many translators of the TTC do a very good job with the concept of Chi, IMO. I think Wayne L Wang has done an excellent job in this regard.

 

Hi, Marblehead

 

Glad to talk with you again here .

 

I think nowadays it is easier to be brainwashed to believing that no immortal and superman exist than believing their existence .

 

Most people just succumb to their common sense and the so-called scientific knowledge ... only guys and ladies have a very sharp mind ( plus some actual experience ) , an ability of seeing through those illusions , can they believe in the existence of the truth on the other side ....yet nothing religious .

 

I have to say, they are really the blessed people . Blessed not by God , but their intelligence and past karma, maybe...

Edited April 1, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Marblehead]

No Superman... That is only christian/religious/brainwashing.

 

Death is only a reincarnation based factor allowing evolution of the physical and mental existance.

 

Learn The Savasana to see the reality of Meditation: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11802-awakening-psychic-abilities/page__st__120

 

Thanks JK.

 

But you know that I don't accept what you just said above. Sorry, my friend. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

I believe people meet their end when they are "meant" to, so that does interest me somewhat...

 

I read that as you suggesting fate or karma or destiny and I do not hold to these concepts.

 

What would happen if you sent an army into a war without weapons or armor??

(I have actually thought of that before haha!)

 

Yes. That would be called being stupid.

 

I have known this to happen to people.. Those who deny reality and obsess and obsess about matters of no concern!

They all inevitably loose their minds...

The Christians called this "Hell" I think...

 

Good point. Yes, we create our own hell. Be we can also create our own heaven.

 

What do you mean?

I think the TTC must have been written by an exceptional human being (or beings)...

 

I agree with you but haven't read JK's response yet.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

~jK~ wrote:

If you can't understand this simple point - you have very much work to do in unclouding your mind before growth can evolve.

 

In my mind Nietzsche's superman is equal to Lao Tzu' "true man" or "sage".

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Hi, Marblehead

 

Glad to talk with you again here .

 

I think nowadays it is easier to be brainwashed to believing that no immortal and superman exist than believing their existence .

 

Yes, it is always a pleasure for me to speak with you even though we hold to a number of different and conflicting concepts.

 

I agree with the brainwashing thing. The thing is, to be an immortal or a superman, it doesn't require doing or being anything that is supernatural. All it requires is that one lives completely within the realms of what is natural - within nature, externally and internally.

 

Peace & Love!

[~jK~]

In my mind Nietzsche's superman is equal to Lao Tzu' "true man" or "sage".

 

Peace & Love!

 

Superman has made it out of the comics in the west and into the everyday "belief" systems?

[Marblehead]

Superman has made it out of the comics in the west and into the everyday "belief" systems?

 

Yes. I agree that today's common understanding of the words "superman" and "sage" or "true man" has strayed dramatically from the original concepts as presented by Nietzsche and Lao Tzu.

 

But this fact does not invalidate the concepts. IMO it only invalidates today's common understanding.

 

Peace & Love!

[DaoChild]

~jK~ wrote:

If you can't understand this simple point - you have very much work to do in unclouding your mind before growth can evolve.

 

Ain't Nothin' like arrogance on a forum for spiritual growth. Yeehaw partner!

[baiqi]

Good post, Marblehead!

 

I have a few remarks however:

 

1) "The four limbs and nine external cavities" does not appear in the TTC itself. It is an interpretation made later by Han Fei Tsi. Which doesn't mean that it is inappropriate, but you could make other interpretations...

 

2) On the "superman" question...well IMO I have absolutely no doubt in these days there were some people with abilities we would consider today impossible...For the simple reason that people had to be stronger, there was no security. As for meditation, we in our modern age are disabled people. You have 100 more stimuli every day than these people had.

 

This being said, following the taoist path is NOT about having powers of any kind. (supernatural, political, money and so on...) You may well have some of these, (for the first one I don't know...) but they also may be a curse. You use power only if you need them. Not for egotistic reasons.

 

3) the "wise men of old time" is an allegorical figure, an example for us to follow, but we should not take every word...

[baiqi]

4) "qi" does appear in the TT (chapter 10)

[Marblehead]

Good post, Marblehead!

 

I have a few remarks however:

 

1) "The four limbs and nine external cavities" does not appear in the TTC itself. It is an interpretation made later by Han Fei Tsi. Which doesn't mean that it is inappropriate, but you could make other interpretations...

 

2) On the "superman" question...well IMO I have absolutely no doubt in these days there were some people with abilities we would consider today impossible...For the simple reason that people had to be stronger, there was no security. As for meditation, we in our modern age are disabled people. You have 100 more stimuli every day than these people had.

 

This being said, following the taoist path is NOT about having powers of any kind. (supernatural, political, money and so on...) You may well have some of these, (for the first one I don't know...) but they also may be a curse. You use power only if you need them. Not for egotistic reasons.

 

3) the "wise men of old time" is an allegorical figure, an example for us to follow, but we should not take every word...

 

 

Excellent observations.

 

(1.) The poem portion of this chapter includes excerpts from perhaps (I didn't keep records) three different translations of the TTC and I agree that many translations include the translator's interpretation. I just felt, at the time of putting this together, it sounded good to include what I did more as suppliment and alternative perspective.

 

(2.) Indeed, the people back then lived much closer to nature than most of us do today. So it is understandable that they were more aware of nature and its processes than we are today. Some of the things they did would 'seem' to be super-human to us today.

 

(3.) Yes, "wise men of old times" never speaks to individuals but rather is used as a vehicle for the concept being discussed.

 

(4.) Indeed.

 

First four of Dr Wang's translation of Chapter 10:

 

Embracing Oneness with body and soul,

can they be kept un-separated?

Focusing Chi to its softest state,

can we reach infancy?

 

Peace & Love!