There is no self

[RongzomFan]

If "I" is the body, when the body dies there would be nothing. Total annhilation. There would be no reason for spirituality or morality.

 

If "I" is Brahman/Self, death of the physical body would not matter at all.

 

So "I" logically must be something in the middle.

 

The thought "I" feels relatively solid and static, even though every aspect of you constantly changes. Emotions and thoughts are constantly in flux.

 

Focus on the CLARITY and VIVIDNESS of the NOW instead of focusing on the thoughtstream.

 

Realize that "I" is literally a thought. You can even practice it right now. Repeat in your mind "I am looking at a computer screen", which you are. See how "I" is LITERALLY a thought. Notice that "my" and "mine" are literally thoughts. Thus how can a THOUGHT own anything? How can a THOUGHT own a plasma tv, or ipod? Saying "This ipod is mine" does not make sense. There may be an ipod in your hands, but thats about it.

 

Bring to mind various friends and family, and recognize how they exist in your mind as a flawed packet of memories (happy memories of childhood perhaps?) and future projections (projections into a fictitious future). When a person is standing in front of you, notice that even though their thoughts and emotions are constantly fluctuating, your thoughtform of them is relatively static. So thus realize the false nature of people-thoughtforms. By the way, this is the ultimate meaning of forgiveness, if you hold a grudge against someone.

 

Look at something valuable like diamonds and gold in a jewelry store window and then look at something not valuable. You will realize something interesting...I won't spoil the surprise though. Also imagine yourself as emperor of the world followed by imagining yourself as a poor bum on the streets.

 

Dalai Lama likes to say sunyata is simply the discrepency between every thoughtform and how reality is. Time, yourself, other people exist in your mind as highly flawed thoughtform packets/bundles. For example, go look at clock right now. It is just an object with two pieces of metal pointing at two different spots on a dial. There is no such thing as time.

 

Every thoughtform (and all of them are flawed) will produce either 1) affinity or 2) aversion. The key is to be centered enough in the the present moment beforehand. And everyone is already perfectly centered, you just have to acknowledge this. So this method is effortless and easy. It is already accomplished.

Edited April 1, 2010 by alwayson

[tyler zambori]

So are you saying the "I" is the ego? You must be!

But Buddhism is not the only religion that says the ego

is an illusion.

[Trogdorf]

[Birch]

I wrote a quick post about this in my private forum. There is and there is not. Next! What do we do after that?

I sometimes wonder if we might have forgotten that part in our introspection?

[3bob]

I wrote a quick post about this in my private forum. There is and there is not. Next! What do we do after that?

I sometimes wonder if we might have forgotten that part in our introspection?

 

"What do we do after that?" K.

 

Surreneder, what else?

[xabir2005]

Hi alwayson,

 

Nice seeing you around, didn't know you had an account here

[3bob]

If "I" is the body, when the body dies there would be nothing. Total annhilation. There would be no reason for spirituality or morality.

 

If "I" is Brahman/Self, death of the physical body would not matter at all.

 

So "I" logically must be something in the middle.

 

The thought "I" feels relatively solid and static, even though every aspect of you constantly changes. Emotions and thoughts are constantly in flux.

 

Focus on the CLARITY and VIVIDNESS of the NOW instead of focusing on the thoughtstream.

 

Realize that "I" is literally a thought. You can even practice it right now. Repeat in your mind "I am looking at a computer screen", which you are. See how "I" is LITERALLY a thought. Notice that "my" and "mine" are literally thoughts. Thus how can a THOUGHT own anything? How can a THOUGHT own a plasma tv, or ipod? Saying "This ipod is mine" does not make sense. There may be an ipod in your hands, but thats about it.

 

Bring to mind various friends and family, and recognize how they exist in your mind as a flawed packet of memories (happy memories of childhood perhaps?) and future projections (projections into a fictitious future). When a person is standing in front of you, notice that even though their thoughts and emotions are constantly fluctuating, your thoughtform of them is relatively static. So thus realize the false nature of people-thoughtforms. By the way, this is the ultimate meaning of forgiveness, if you hold a grudge against someone.

 

Look at something valuable like diamonds and gold in a jewelry store window and then look at something not valuable. You will realize something interesting...I won't spoil the surprise though. Also imagine yourself as emperor of the world followed by imagining yourself as a poor bum on the streets.

 

Dalai Lama likes to say sunyata is simply the discrepency between every thoughtform and how reality is. Time, yourself, other people exist in your mind as highly flawed thoughtform packets/bundles. For example, go look at clock right now. It is just an object with two pieces of metal pointing at two different spots on a dial. There is no such thing as time.

 

Every thoughtform (and all of them are flawed) will produce either 1) affinity or 2) aversion. The key is to be centered enough in the the present moment beforehand. And everyone is already perfectly centered, you just have to acknowledge this. So this method is effortless and easy. It is already accomplished.

 

"I'm not enlightened" from the Dalai Lama. "Ok", from me.

 

Om

[Tux]

Time exists...otherwise I wouldn't use it every day!

[xabir2005]

"I'm not enlightened" from the Dalai Lama. "Ok", from me.

 

Om

In Mahayana Buddhism, enlightenment means Buddhahood, which also confers things like omniscience, perfection of all virtues, all powerful, mastery of expedient means, etc etc.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't anyone who is enlightened and liberated (in the sense of realisation of emptiness, freedom from samsara, etc) whether as a Bodhisattva or an Arhant, for in Buddha's times alone he had thousands of students who are enlightened and liberated, and there continue to be such people today. I do not doubt that HHDL is such a person.

 

Also, he is a highly qualified Dzogchen teacher and practitioner, so if he had not realised his nature of mind, it would not be possible for him to take on that position.

Edited April 1, 2010 by xabir2005

[Lucky7Strikes]

In Mahayana Buddhism, enlightenment means Buddhahood, which also confers things like omniscience, perfection of all virtues, all powerful, mastery of expedient means, etc etc.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't anyone who is enlightened and liberated (in the sense of realisation of emptiness, freedom from samsara, etc) whether as a Bodhisattva or an Arhant, for in Buddha's times alone he had thousands of students who are enlightened and liberated, and there continue to be such people today. I do not doubt that HHDL is such a person.

 

Also, he is a highly qualified Dzogchen teacher and practitioner, so if he had not realised his nature of mind, it would not be possible for him to take on that position.

Retaining insight and using it to liberate deeply rooted beliefs and habits is much more difficult than understanding the concepts alone. It is said that even Bodhisattvas sometimes fall into reluctance due to their attachments to heavenly bliss.

 

It really comes down to dilligent practice. None of these discussions mean much without it. .

Edited April 1, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

"The greatest achievement is selflessness.

The greatest worth is self-mastery.

The greatest quality is seeking to serve others.

The greatest precept is continual awareness.

The greatest medicine is the emptiness of all things.

The greatest action is not conforming to the ways of the world.

The greatest magic is transmuting the passions and emotions.

The greatest generosity is non-attachment.

The greatest goodness is a peaceful mind.

the greatest patience is humility.

The greatest effort is not concerned with results.

The greatest meditation is a mind that lets go.

The greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances."

-- Atisha --

[Gerard]

If "I" is the body, when the body dies there would be nothing. Total annhilation. There would be no reason for spirituality or morality...

 

How did you come across this conclusion?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

We are like snowflakes, unique patterns of exactly the same 'stuff'.. 'God', spirit, Tao, Energy, etc.. this 'stuff' is conscious, aware, and intelligent. The 'stuff' has 'Principles' that influence its existence, a fundamental 'Principle' is that the 'stuff' is 'self-organizing'.. we/us/Life are the 'stuff' organizing itself into independently functioning uniquely self-aware 'individualities', in our case, Human Beings.. the "Principle" guiding the manifestation of 'individuality' is 'self-awareness'.. the 'stuff' is aware that it exists, simply because it is aware there is a 'void' within which it exists.. awareness radiates into the 'void' and reveals no 'information'.. so, the 'biggie', the 'stuff' responds to another 'principle' Change (Taiji).. the 'stuff', aware of itself and aware of no 'other', no feedback, no relationship, the 'stff' asks the critical Question.. What am "I".. we/us/Life are the answer..

 

Within the 'stuff' as its Unified Wholeness.. is the sum of of all its experiences, existent as, for lack of a better term, the Cosmic Memory.. which is the structure that differentiates order from chaos as the fundamental state of 'stuff'.. so, there is 'self-aware' stuff experiencable as 'order', there is stuff that is unaware of itself, experiencable as chaos.. and, the 'Stuff' is the Self, both as its inherent Unity/Oneness AND as its manifested individuality..

 

There are a multitude of religions and philosophies describing the inter-relationships of individualities as those relationships relate to their inherent Unity/wholeness.. these are conceptual interpretations of the basic fundamental process of the Unified/whole Self experiencing its own existence through 'itself' manifested as independently functioning individualities..

 

OH YES!! there is a 'Self', and it celebrates its existence through 'itself' as we/us/Life.. the eternal process of 'Self-discovery'..

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

I love y'all!

 

That's all I've got to say at the moment.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

In Mahayana Buddhism, enlightenment means Buddhahood, which also confers things like omniscience, perfection of all virtues, all powerful, mastery of expedient means, etc etc.

 

This doesn't mean there aren't anyone who is enlightened and liberated (in the sense of realisation of emptiness, freedom from samsara, etc) whether as a Bodhisattva or an Arhant, for in Buddha's times alone he had thousands of students who are enlightened and liberated, and there continue to be such people today. I do not doubt that HHDL is such a person.

 

Also, he is a highly qualified Dzogchen teacher and practitioner, so if he had not realised his nature of mind, it would not be possible for him to take on that position.

 

To me it's not only ok that the Dalai Lama said that he is not enlightened, it is honest, humble and refreshing; and in those important ways (and some others) he seems advanced. As far as there being thousands of enlightened or liberated students (an oxymoronic like statment since students would no longer be such if they were enlightened) existing in the Buddhas time or now is something I don't buy into, even if there are some references in doctrine along such lines - although I'm sure there were and are many advanced Buddhist students. Why do I say these things? Because if there were thousands of fully enlightened beings on earth back then or now such would equal a spiritual/mystic force and presense great enough to offset far more of the non-dharmic times and events that took place back then and that are also happening on this Earth now; but we don't have that situation do we? Thus we didn't have thousands of enlightened beings manifesting on Earth back then or now. Further, I'd add that when the Earth and a certain percentage of us humans are fully enlighened along with a certain percentage that are advanced - we will then vibrate together as, "a new heaven and a new earth"... but until then and as it has often been for countless generations this realm retains it's slaughter-house and war-realm types of great suffering.

 

Om

[Sunya]

So are you saying the "I" is the ego? You must be!

But Buddhism is not the only religion that says the ego

is an illusion.

 

The 'I' and 'ego' are both mental conceptions bearing no reality. Anyway who said Buddhism is the only religion that says ego is an illusion?

[Sunya]

OH YES!! there is a 'Self', and it celebrates its existence through 'itself' as we/us/Life..

 

Prove it. Show me this underlying stuff, this essence, this Self.

[RongzomFan]

Time exists...otherwise I wouldn't use it every day!

 

 

Time literally does NOT exist. Look at a clock. There is a motor that turns two pieces of metal. These two pieces of metal move around, but thats about it.

 

 

BTW, the Dalai Lama is simply the head monk of Gelug school. There is no reason to think he is a full Mahayana Buddha in the first place, although I am sure he has realized the nature of the mind.

Edited April 1, 2010 by alwayson

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Prove it. Show me this underlying stuff, this essence, this Self.

Hi mikaelz: You just did it for me, thanks.. I like that about you, so helpful, so understanding.. and, to do it with the freshman ploy of 'prove it', was simply brilliant, great job!!!

 

Be well..

[dwai]

If "I" is the body, when the body dies there would be nothing. Total annhilation. There would be no reason for spirituality or morality.

 

If "I" is Brahman/Self, death of the physical body would not matter at all.

 

So "I" logically must be something in the middle.

 

The thought "I" feels relatively solid and static, even though every aspect of you constantly changes. Emotions and thoughts are constantly in flux.

 

Focus on the CLARITY and VIVIDNESS of the NOW instead of focusing on the thoughtstream.

 

Realize that "I" is literally a thought. You can even practice it right now. Repeat in your mind "I am looking at a computer screen", which you are. See how "I" is LITERALLY a thought. Notice that "my" and "mine" are literally thoughts. Thus how can a THOUGHT own anything? How can a THOUGHT own a plasma tv, or ipod? Saying "This ipod is mine" does not make sense. There may be an ipod in your hands, but thats about it.

 

Bring to mind various friends and family, and recognize how they exist in your mind as a flawed packet of memories (happy memories of childhood perhaps?) and future projections (projections into a fictitious future). When a person is standing in front of you, notice that even though their thoughts and emotions are constantly fluctuating, your thoughtform of them is relatively static. So thus realize the false nature of people-thoughtforms. By the way, this is the ultimate meaning of forgiveness, if you hold a grudge against someone.

 

Look at something valuable like diamonds and gold in a jewelry store window and then look at something not valuable. You will realize something interesting...I won't spoil the surprise though. Also imagine yourself as emperor of the world followed by imagining yourself as a poor bum on the streets.

 

Dalai Lama likes to say sunyata is simply the discrepency between every thoughtform and how reality is. Time, yourself, other people exist in your mind as highly flawed thoughtform packets/bundles. For example, go look at clock right now. It is just an object with two pieces of metal pointing at two different spots on a dial. There is no such thing as time.

 

Every thoughtform (and all of them are flawed) will produce either 1) affinity or 2) aversion. The key is to be centered enough in the the present moment beforehand. And everyone is already perfectly centered, you just have to acknowledge this. So this method is effortless and easy. It is already accomplished.

 

When you strip away everything that is "Not Self", what is left is the Self, the indivisible, the constant. Like I have mentioned earlier. I is not a thought. I is that indivisible, constant, eternal, unchanging. The trick is that everything is "I". What is a thought, a phenomenon, is the "I am this" or "I am that". The Subject pure is "I", the predicate is the phenomenon. When one realizes that, they realize that what they consider the "I" is really not the "I". The Real "I" is objectless Consciousness.

[RongzomFan]

If that is true, you should have memories of existence before you were born LOL.

 

I notice you have Adi Shankara in your signature. You do realize he ripped off Nagarjuna for a lot of his stuff right?

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I is not a thought.

Except, all this 'on and on' about what is or isn't "I"/self.. is someone's individualized thought/opinion, based exclusively on the actuallity of individualized existence..

The Real "I" is objectless Consciousness.

lol, not so much, really.. the "Real I" as you put it, is telling us about their 'imagination' and pretending their imagination is 'real'.. at the same time, pretending their actual physical manifestation is an 'illusion'..

 

Be well..

[mYTHmAKER]

Prove it. Show me this underlying stuff, this essence, this Self.

 

Knock knock

Who is it that is asking for proof of the self.

.........

[lifeforce]

I still haven't seen proof that there is no self. Show it to me.

All I've read is opinions and the translated words of ancients.

Drop all concepts and systems.

Don't rely on the words and opinions of others.

Still yourself and look within.

It is here where you will find Truth.

[RongzomFan]

Knock knock

Who is it that is asking for proof of the self.

.........

 

 

a collection of aggregates