Is TaoBums breeding grounds for cult-like behavior?

[findley]

There are eastern philosophies, and eastern spiritual traditions that originally enticed most of us to this kind of forum.

 

What this forum emphasizes, however, is the cultivation of super-normal capacities. I remember my first time doing qi gong-- I felt high from the experience. static in my pants. it was amazing. -How far can such phenomena be taken?

 

...and then we fall into these cult-like traditions, set up by guys like Chia and Winn, who might be able to do wierd things, but are certainly not immortal deities like they would have us all believe we have potential to become.

 

Now we have folks like drew hempel shooting orgasmic energy out of his forehead, stigweard apparantly selling I Ching readings... People like Darin Hamel who simply want to give themselves some sort of faulty sense of legitimacy to teach a class on martial arts.

 

People making money off of seminars, or 'shaktipat' through the internet, (for christ's sake...)

 

I fell into it when I was 18. I thought I found god in qi gong. (how far could it all go??) I had alot of wierd sensations, and the occassional subtle bliss, (for practicing all day every day...) but it certainly wasnt worth all the training. I can sit back in 5 minutes and achieve more or less the same subtle bliss I practiced all day for.

 

Id ask if there are people with first hand experience of the transcendent, but thenI know people like drew are hanging around, that when they're not working at mcdonalds are sitting in front of their TV in full-lotus shooting orgasms at women. so.

 

You people be careful. especially young men like myself 6 years ago. Put your effort and energy into getting into and through college or something.

[Kunlun Enthusiast]

'shaktipat' through the internet, (for christ's sake...)

 

 

Findley, I agree, about 80% are in it for money but there are some who genuinely want to share what they think benefitted them. Don't you agree?

 

I can sit back in 5 minutes and achieve more or less the same subtle bliss I practiced all day for.

 

Care to elaborate how?

[thelerner]

Yes, yes, I see it now. I've taken classes w/ chia and Winn, I must be brain washed. Those who gain fame or reputation must be stopped, perhaps if you teach more then say 4 people at a time you break the Findley rule. Likewise any payment greater then a cup of coffee also breaks Findley's rule.

 

Do you have a list of Findley approved teachers?????

We need your incredible wisdom. Lead us Findley Lead us

Findley are you contributing to cult-like behavior by being here??????

Are you secretly after the cultees.

 

Face it, there are many systems of cultivation out there. Just cause you don't like them doesn't make them a cult, rather it makes you a person who greatly exaggerates.

 

 

my 2 cents

 

Michael

 

 

 

3 cents

 

I get overly critical as it gets late. I apologize for my negative tone. Findley is right to say look closely at what you're going to study, dismiss the wild claims, beware of turning men into gods or gurus.

Edited April 4, 2010 by thelerner

[fizix]

Your comments directed toward Drew Hempel are beyond arrogant and ignorant, let alone uncalled for; well, your whole post in general actually. I don't understand people's needs to create something out of nothing.

 

This thread of yours is akin to the fear-inducing antics of the evening news; "Will being friends with a muslim endanger your life?"

 

Attention seeking is not conducive to a healthy way of being.

Edited April 4, 2010 by fizix

[everseeking]

Findley-

 

I gotta admit-I read the title of this thread, and saw your name, and was like, 'well, shiiiiiiit. what's HE got to say.'

 

But after reading your post, I had to laugh a bit, and I must say I agree with you a lot.

 

The Dao that can be named is not the true Dao.

 

We've all read that, and everyone seems to apply it in different ways. Perhaps its not the same thing to everyone? Different things to different people? You say tomato, I say whatever?

 

IDK man. If I recall, you've been to China to some summit on the Dao. I think YOU are actually one of the voices of reason and balance in this place. So please stick around and share your perspective.

 

I think, in Darin's defense, that he is a good guy, and would agree with you about the importance of something like college. As would many others.

 

Looking back at stuff in the last few years, I've made some of the most profound advances in areas os my life after realizing that the path I was on was bullshit, or flawed, or misguided, or just not right for me. Had I not tried and done some of those things which were a waste of time, I would not be as far along as I am in some areas. Sometimes in order to appreciate some successes, we have to fail.

 

From knowledge comes wisdom. Use the force, etc.

 

Anyway, if you don't like it (TTB), change it.

[Aetherous]

but it certainly wasnt worth all the training

 

Yes, there is more to life than this.

 

Buncha CULTivators.

[idquest]

You people be careful. especially young men like myself 6 years ago. Put your effort and energy into getting into and through college or something.

 

Totally agree. Build your base, fundament first, then go spiritual.

[Birch]

I can see where Findley's concern might lie and it's a good idea IMO to bring it out into the open. As well as dissing him for his attitude, may also be worth listening to him.

 

IMO practice does not equal cult-ish behaviour yet so much depends on the practitioner and the conditions in which he/she is practicing. I wonder how many people on TTB are lone cultivators vs with others. I don't think this equates to trying teachings or techniques.

 

Sometimes it gets tough (this has also been my experience) and if when it gets tough you cave in, then there you are. Hopefully you have teachers and friends that have more integrity than you do at that point.

 

But if you kick off with a personality that tends towards herd-like behaviour, it may take a while before you snap out of it.

 

But maybe you don't need to snap out of it. That will be you. That's it. Same anywhere you go.

[innerspace_cadet]

I agree with Findley that the cultivation of exotic abilities can be a distraction. IMO, it can also become a trap for your ego.

 

What drew me to Buddhism was a very simple statement from the happy fat man himself: "I teach dukkha, and the end of dukkha, that is all." My favorite images of the Buddha are those Chinese versions of a fat dude with an enormous smile on his face. That's what the spiritual path is about for me--bliss and joy.

 

Spiritual practice need not be complicated or even esoteric. Sure, I could learn how to burn ants with my chi, but if I am still stuck in harmful attachments and patterns, what good is it?

 

But then again, I'm pretty much a lone wolf; the only "guru" I have is my Tai Chi teacher, and she doesn't charge hefty fees for her services, and her "system" is tried and true.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Yes, yes, I see it now. I've taken classes w/ chia and Winn, I must be brain washed. Those who gain fame or reputation must be stopped, perhaps if you teach more then say 4 people at a time you break the Findley rule. Likewise any payment greater then a cup of coffee also breaks Findley's rule.

 

Do you have a list of Findley approved teachers?????

We need your incredible wisdom. Lead us Findley Lead us

Findley are you contributing to cult-like behavior by being here??????

Are you secretly after the cultees.

 

Face it, there are many systems of cultivation out there. Just cause you don't like them doesn't make them a cult, rather it makes you a person who greatly exaggerates.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[Iyoiyo]

I too think the preoccupation with "powers" on this board is really strange, although it may or may not be cult like. Whenever I see one of these posts on how to shoot fire out of your eyes, or something like that, I always think of the same story. I've posted it before, and I'll post it again now.

 

One day two students were walking along together, and they began to talk of their masters. Both masters were famous and respected men whom people journeyed many miles to consult. Eventually they came to comparing the masters. One student said, "my master must be the most amazing, I've heard he can float above the ground, he can write in the air with a brush, and characters will appear on the paper hundreds of feet away!" The second student agreed that this was, indeed, amazing. The first student continued, "what can your master do?"

 

"My master can also perform amazing feats," spoke the second student, "when he's tired, he sleeps, and when he is hungry, he eats."

[The_Tao_Bum]

I too think the preoccupation with "powers" on this board is really strange, although it may or may not be cult like. Whenever I see one of these posts on how to shoot fire out of your eyes, or something like that, I always think of the same story. I've posted it before, and I'll post it again now.

 

One day two students were walking along together, and they began to talk of their masters. Both masters were famous and respected men whom people journeyed many miles to consult. Eventually they came to comparing the masters. One student said, "my master must be the most amazing, I've heard he can float above the ground, he can write in the air with a brush, and characters will appear on the paper hundreds of feet away!" The second student agreed that this was, indeed, amazing. The first student continued, "what can your master do?"

 

"My master can also perform amazing feats," spoke the second student, "when he's tired, he sleeps, and when he is hungry, he eats."

 

 

What a ridiculous story that proved nothing but stupidity.

 

Somebody once said, Its not what the master can do, But rather what He is willing to share that really counts. You can have the greatest Taoist Wizard in the universe teaching you, But if he's a racist bigot or you dont have any affinity, Then you still wont learn a single thing even after 100 years .

 

Whats wrong with seeking supernatural powers anyway ? Only the lucky people will get to see the real miracles of Chi.

 

Are/Were you one of them ?

Edited April 4, 2010 by The_Tao_Bum

[Spirit Ape]

Only if you do Max Hardcores "Secret Kunlun FROM THE CAVE OF THE THUNDERGOD" and golden dragon masters!

 

Take it easy scotty just taking the piss its all good!

[Aetherous]

Don't make me use my burning palm on you, Spirit Ape!

[Lucky7Strikes]

What a ridiculous story that proved nothing but stupidity.

 

Somebody once said, Its not what the master can do, But rather what He is willing to share that really counts. You can have the greatest Taoist Wizard in the universe teaching you, But if he's a racist bigot or you dont have any affinity, Then you still wont learn a single thing even after 100 years .

 

Whats wrong with seeking supernatural powers anyway ? Only the lucky people will get to see the real miracles of Chi.

 

Are/Were you one of them ?

And what will you do with your powers?

[RyanO]

[The_Tao_Bum]

And what will you do with your powers?

 

Whatever i feel like

[Spirit Ape]

Happy easter Bro!!!

[三江源]

The forum is fine, as is Winn, Chia, Drew, Darin, Stigweard et al.

 

The issue is about being discerning. The responsibility lies within the individual to be that.

 

Actually this forum is a place to cultivate discernment via discussion with fellow travellers of the way.

[soaring crane]

The first student continued, "what can your master do?"

 

"My master can also perform amazing feats," spoke the second student, "when he's tired, he sleeps, and when he is hungry, he eats."

 

You didn't finish the story:

 

The first student laughed outloud and rushed home to tell his master about it. His master then stopped what he was doing, ran as he could to the teacher of the second student and said, "Master, please teach me".

 

 

What a ridiculous story that proved nothing but stupidity.

 

And your post proves... ah well, I won't go down that road.

 

Cat's comment pretty well sums up my thoughts on the subject in general. Also, what a person does today will be a memory ten years from now. If I saw someone doing now the things I did thirty years ago, my first impulse would be to warn him to stop. But then I look at where I am now and think, nah, let him live his life and make his own experiences. You can't learn discernement without having to discern a few things.

 

 

 

[Taiji Bum]

People like Darin Hamel who simply want to give themselves some sort of faulty sense of legitimacy to teach a class on martial arts.

If I were to ascribe a negative motivation to my being on the TaoBums it would be for ego validation and not legitimacy to teach a class on martial arts. My major personal issues always seem to go back to trying to please my dead father. So if your going to be critical of me please get it right. Here's some more of my bad points to make it easier for you to be critical of me and to point out my faults.

 

1- Feelings of inferiority (I'm a youngest child.)

2- Greedy (I wanna be a millionaire.)

3- Lustful (blondes)

4- Arrogant (YOU TALKING TO ME!)

5- Delusions of Grandeur (Nobody is enlightened as me.)

6- Lazy (Fat)

 

I think you have posted some criticisms of my Taoist Alchemy videos too. In my self indulgent moments I tell myself I posted them to help people and those seekers new on the path. In my self critical moments I see there was a selfish intent to maybe get "discovered" and become rich and famous. Thank you for making me take a look at myself.

 

Happy Easter!

Darin Hamel

[Apech]

 

 

1- Feelings of inferiority (I'm a youngest child.)

2- Greedy (I wanna be a millionaire.)

3- Lustful (blondes)

4- Arrogant (YOU TALKING TO ME!)

5- Delusions of Grandeur (Nobody is enlightened as me.)

6- Lazy (Fat)

 

 

 

Let he without sin cast the first stone.

[宁]

findley, on 03 April 2010 - 06:28 PM, said:

I can sit back in 5 minutes and achieve more or less the same subtle bliss I practiced all day for.

 

Care to elaborate how?

 

So, you're new around.

We'll have to let you in on his secret:

 

pot and 'meditation', powerful mix!

 

I have the feeling that what we're really fighting against is pot itself,

and not the better part of findley

- whatever that is, wherever that is

 

 

 

PS: It's game over from starters eheheh!!!

Edited April 4, 2010 by Little1

[三江源]

 

 

1- Feelings of inferiority (I'm a youngest child.)

2- Greedy (I wanna be a millionaire.)

3- Lustful (blondes)

4- Arrogant (YOU TALKING TO ME!)

5- Delusions of Grandeur (Nobody is enlightened as me.)

6- Lazy (Fat)

 

 

Happy Easter!

Darin Hamel

 

Hey Darin, lets start a cult. I have all of the above entrance criteria.

[findley]

eeuuhhh...

 

...

actually my little secret is the 'mysterious pass'. The 'centerless center'... that which is there, but... isn't...there more you look for it, the more it eludes you.. it is nothingness and yet it is everywhere and everything. it is the gateway by which yang corporeality, by means of consciousness, pierces into the great Mother yin, and by means of which I can 'come into' reality.

 

it even makes me psychic !

 

This topic is making up the second part of my book. you can look for it later

 

...I was expecting alot more callous beligerence (sp?). People like Cat hanging around makes me like this place =)

 

Cat, you are so amazing to me, and I look up to you as a master. I dont know why. (maybe you can tell me?)

 

-david =)