Why I am against 'powers'

[goldisheavy]

Scientific epistemology and phenomenology. Scientific knowledge is necessarily a never-ending work in progress, but the methods and intellectual traditions on which it's based have been more or less finalized for about a century now. I'm especially a fan of Edmund Husserl's work. Did you know that he founded a great meditative tradition? Who knows what might have happened if it hadn't been for the Nazis?

 

You do realize that you didn't answer the question, right?

[JazZen]

My personal opinion: Expectation of Powers (Sidhis) are an obstacle and goal or gaining powers and using them a hindrance to go further.

 

We should inquire about our goals or aspirations of our practice. Is it power or liberation/enlightenment? If liberation.... then on the way Powers will come.... a zen teacher would say dont attach yourself to them...

 

Power without wisdom - there are many stories to teach us on this. I will find a Indian one that sticks with me. A ascetic was meditating in forest and a bird came along and by her chirping was bothering the hermit. He got angry and said... you bird go away or die... and that moment the bird fell to ground and died.

 

Meanwhile read a Taoist one: "What benefit is Power without wisdom" read the story on Sifu Jenny FaceBoook Page

Edited April 16, 2010 by JazZen

[nac]

You do realize that you didn't answer the question, right?

Do I have to copy/paste a whole book's worth of information into this page? Here's my summary: Om.

 

PS. Epistemology focuses on why we know. Phenomenology elaborates on what we know and how we know it.

Edited April 16, 2010 by nac

[Guest paul walter]

How can you discern true perception from false?

 

 

 

By not discerning/fixing what 'I' perceive as 'I' perceive... I'm going to start using more laughing emoticons if I get cornered into describing what I can't, so be warned . Paul

[SFJane]

LOL Ok, SFJane, now you beating up masters with Kumars Fajing, at least you learnt something I guess if t wasnt magic or quballa, and the rest of the sh!t you speaking that failed you constantly. hahaha

 

Oh, I work in mental health dear, and you know nothing about me, how dare you LOL, Checkyouself out, some ego you have. I heard in the past that Kumar is very disprespectful and challenged and try to put down taiji masters and he got beat alot, is that true? Yes, I have a illness maybe more then one I actually feel some Tourettes coming on F@^%@&, b!&*^@#*&! lol

 

You think you could bounce me, lol you probably could?! Maybe all my years of ring fighting, door work, body guarding couldnt possibly match you skills from a few classes or seminars o kumars? lmao

 

Funny how you act when things dont go your way, wish you hadnt started this thread now right?

 

HOW DARE YOU....LMFAO HAHAHAHA

 

Be happy you wake up everyday alive, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling some people dont see any of this and you whinging like a b!tch over I didnt get any MAGIC ABILTIES, BOO HOO!!!

 

LOL

Ape

 

 

~~~ TheTaoBums Mod Squad ~~~

Spirit Ape was suspended for a couple o' weeks for the above offensive post.

Thank you for reporting it. The report system does work.

- Trunk

~~~ Mod Squad out ~~~

 

 

 

The onus is on you to prove your claims Garry. You have the money to fly to Hong Kong and China and train with who knows who, you have the money to fly to SF and come play with me and find out for yourself. Or you can you pay my way and I'll come to you. You don't have any 'powers' and even if you did, my anti-magic belief will strip your powers away before you get anywhere near me.

 

With your resort to ALLCAPS and profanity, the true depths of your cultivation are clear to me. You have nothing I want and I know my presence of mind is greater than yours. I am dealing with reality. You deal in BS. You have shown your weakness attempting to come across as strong.

 

As far as I am concerned, I'd love nothing more than to put a video of you on youtube failing to do anything meaningful with your chi and just embarrassing yourself. I am proud to be a Kumar student and happy to demo what I know of his stuff. Feel free to PM me and we will take it from there.

Edited April 16, 2010 by SFJane

[SFJane]

I haven't tried to say anything. I said it, you've snipped it out of your quote and ignored it. Which is OK, but I am not going to repeat it. It's still right there for you.

 

Neither am I going to list the forum members whose claimed experiences exceed your claimed experiences. Their posts are all right here on this board too.

 

Neither am I interested in debating the validity of your personal experience. I have not, and I will not. The question is whether your data supports your conclusions; it does not.

 

 

Ok, you have no idea what you are talking about and enjoy wasting time on the internet. Got it. You rambled and babbled about this thing and that and didn't make a whole lot of sense. Nor did you get anywhere near a point worth talking about.

 

If English is a second language for you and you are not comfortable articulating in it, I totally apologize. Otherwise, I simply ask that you try to come across as lucid and make some sense. Your first post in reply to this thread made no sense to me.

Edited April 16, 2010 by SFJane

[SFJane]

You know, when I was in second grade I got picked on a lot. This one kid, Dennis, was held back a year and consequently he towered over the other second graders. He took a special disliking to me and threatened to push me around on the playground. I told him he couldn't harm me because I had guardian angels who watched over me.

 

He laughed at me and said “Oh yea?” in your stereotypical schoolyard bully belligerence and promptly pushed me to the ground.

 

“Where is your guardian angel now?” He taunted, laughing at me. “Oh what, you gonna cry?”

 

I was told I had a guardian angel by my mother. It turned out there was no such thing. My AWOL guardian angel didn't seem inclined to protect me from other bullying or child abuse at home. My guardian angel was pretty useless actually and I learned self defense and made the bullying stop on my own.

 

In this thread several of you have condescended to me, hinting that if I trained real methods I'd get real powers. Insinuating that you folks have learned real methods and obtained real powers with them. More than one of you oppose my ontological and scientific experiences and experiments with your conviction that I must simply be doing it wrong.

 

Unfortunately not a one of you who has opposed my ideas has seen fit to provide one shred of proof of your proper training methods or any such powers. Hinting that either you don't need to 'prove' anything, or that my Galileo-like skepticism would be a hostile environment to prove things in or you have gone on to make other equally weak excuses. Not one video of a TTB with powers. Not even any anecdotes.

 

That reminds me so much of so many Christians who post on the net or that I've met in person.

“Trust me,” they say, “If you really opened your heart to Him you would not doubt His existence or His love for us.”

 

“Someday, if you are lucky and humble, you'll get it.” Others may state.

 

None of them ever proved Jesus either. They have no proof. They just 'know'.

 

Watch how easy it is for me to turn the tables and do the same thing back to you:

 

I call bollux on the lot of you who have opposed me. I think you need to familiarize yourself with terms such as 'manic', 'delusional' and 'psychotic.' I'd love to be a fly on the wall and watch you try to assure a psychiatrist that you have powers and are not mentally ill. Really, it's that easy to render my judgment on you and say that you're psychotic and delusional. That you claim abilities you can't prove. You claim knowledge of the occult that you can not prove. That you hold unrealistic beliefs about reality and yourself that you can not prove to anyone but yourself or your fellow pre-biased group thinkers.

 

Claims, claims and more unproven, untested claims. And more condescension for someone like me who levies critical thinking and skepticism. You can mock James Randi and other skeptics all you want but you'd be whistling a whole other tune if you were forced to undergo injections of antipsychotics unless you could prove your powers.

 

The thing of it is this. I am an easy sell. I am. All you have to do is prove one ability that you have that is the result of cultivation. I am not going to be deceived easily nor will I succumb to confirmation bias. If you have a genuine power I will know it if you demo it. It really is not that difficult to change my thinking. Just prove it. Put your money where you mouth is and show me what you have got.

 

Otherwise, I am just as comfortable defaulting to my assumption that some of you are really quite delusional as you are comfortable assuming I don't know what I am doing or that I don't 'get it' or am listening but not hearing and all that other bs that has been thrown at me to otherwise intimate that I am just not as awesome and developed as you highly cultivated people.

Edited April 16, 2010 by SFJane

[Aetherous]

that I am just not as awesome and developed as you highly cultivated people.

 

Jumping in here...

 

I actually think you are. But there are misconceptions about what the powers will be like.

 

They are natural for everyone, and aren't a big deal. They are real.

 

I hope people here can be happy...peace.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think one of the reasons we all seem to disagree here is that....

 

Wait for it...

 

 

WE'RE ALL RIGHT!

 

No, seriously, this isn't some trippy la la land answer.

 

I've found the water method as taught by Bruce to be the best for me. I've experimented with lots of other methods and approaches, and they didn't work for me. But you know what the crazy thing is? The further I go in the water method, the more and more I naturally discover the things that are present in systems I've already trained with.

 

For martial arts, I did karate for a while and thought, "there's no way karate can ever have the same internal development as an IMA does". Then, years later, as I'm doing some forms and playing around with applications, I see how the same internal characteristics can be put into karate. I'm like, WHOA. A high level karate guy could be getting the same kind of stuff as an internal guy- as long as they follow their training method through to the end, and really put their whole being behind what they do, they will get there.

 

A lot of people on this board put their entire being into what they do- I bet if we were to analyze everything we've ever done and been through, we'd find a lot of similarities and a lot of similar conclusions drawn. But since we have different approaches to get to the same place, it looks different, when in reality, the same underlying current could be taking a variety of forms. And since we have put so much of ourselves into a particular method, when we see other forms it is easy to take offense.

 

Then again, I could be dead wrong!

Edited April 16, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[philbowser]

Jane,

 

I have no powers except for my power to sleep, eat, try to have fun, and live in spite of what pulls you down. Is that a power? May be, or is it just a natural instinct to survive? Probably is. As a kid, I supposedly communicated with spirits and underwent hell on that account. From being called a lunatic to a satanist, I got picked from my own family. But then there was a survival instinct and I picked my pieces. It is not easy to talk about such a journey especially with the kind of openness you have exhibited.

 

This is how I see it:

 

How does this effect my Buddhist practice?

It doesn't.

These reported events are like an arrow shot at my heart but it lands at my feet.

I choose not to bend over, pick it up, and stab myself with it.

 

Have nothing more to offer you than a warm hug. Sister, really appreciate what you have shared here. Reading that, I feel a lot of my own baggage melting away.

[SFJane]

For those interested in more about anti-magic ability, check out these images.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing yourself philbrowser. Thanks for your hug and kind words as well.

I return your hug with one of my own.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Hug from me too, Jane. You're a brave soul.

 

Love, Songs

[Mokona]

I think one of the reasons we all seem to disagree here is that....

 

Wait for it...

 

 

WE'RE ALL RIGHT!

 

No, seriously, this isn't some trippy la la land answer.

 

I've found the water method as taught by Bruce to be the best for me. I've experimented with lots of other methods and approaches, and they didn't work for me. But you know what the crazy thing is? The further I go in the water method, the more and more I naturally discover the things that are present in systems I've already trained with.

 

For martial arts, I did karate for a while and thought, "there's no way karate can ever have the same internal development as an IMA does". Then, years later, as I'm doing some forms and playing around with applications, I see how the same internal characteristics can be put into karate. I'm like, WHOA. A high level karate guy could be getting the same kind of stuff as an internal guy- as long as they follow their training method through to the end, and really put their whole being behind what they do, they will get there.

 

A lot of people on this board put their entire being into what they do- I bet if we were to analyze everything we've ever done and been through, we'd find a lot of similarities and a lot of similar conclusions drawn. But since we have different approaches to get to the same place, it looks different, when in reality, the same underlying current could be taking a variety of forms. And since we have put so much of ourselves into a particular method, when we see other forms it is easy to take offense.

 

Then again, I could be dead wrong!

 

What is the "water method" ?

[Sloppy Zhang]

What is the "water method" ?

 

It's the school of Daoism that Bruce teaches. He separates it from various "fire methods" of Daoism in the way that he handles things, focusing more on relaxing and letting stuff happen rather than trying to make stuff happen. But calling them separate "schools" isn't really the right term either, it's more like a way of doing things, "method", if you will I dunno, hard for me to explain clearly, check out "Relaxing Into Your Being", one of his books that describes it a lot. There are a few pages of preview for it on google books I think. Or just buy the book, it's really good

Edited April 17, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[enouch]

What are powers? Blasting someone with heat vision out of your eyes? Or something that transcends known [acceptable] natural laws? In any case, enough evidence has been given that super normal abilities are real, in the persons of Wim Hoff and Prahlad Jani. It is ''impossible'' for a human being to run fifteen miles almost naked at the artic circle. It is ''impossible'' for a person not to eat/ drink anything and not use the bathroom for fourteen days.Where is he getting his energy from?

[Cloudhand]

What I believe Ape means[i could be wrong] are effective methods that bring true siddhis. You know, like Wim Hoff, swami Rama, Prahlad Jani, John Chang, Chunny Lyn, ecetera have. I noticed in your report not a mention of desiring powers for healing [like Drew proclaims he wants] was mentioned. Super normal healing is a siddhi as well. As for good...sure everything is filtered through human consciousness, nothing interpets itself. However, that does not lessen the distinction between the two dualing forces at work in human experience. Just as a rape victim.

 

I do believe you are correct about critical thinking coming first, it's just we should beware of western mechanistic, materialist bias dominating our entire world view.

 

 

The old addage if it hurts them more then you, you messed with karma. Cloudhand

[SFJane]

For anyone seeking 'powers', I recommend the '5 whys' exercise:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Whys

 

Try and be honest with yourself. The answers may not be what you want to see, but they will be invaluable if you allow them to be.

 

 

In a nutshell, try to understand 'to what purpose do I seek these things?'

 

Finding the correct purpose for you and peace of mind matter. 'Powers' and such like are simply static. Why are you seeking to concentrate on the static at the expense of the music?

 

I just wanted to comment on this and thank you MJJ for posting it.

 

I had never heard of the 5 Whys before but the idea of it shares a similar characteristic with cognitive behavioral therapy. You don't need a CBT facilitator if you can understand and use the 5 Whys on yourself. That is something I learned how to do during the course of healing myself of my mental health issues.

 

When I learned how to ask myself 'why' I thought and did certain things I found that my own mind could give me wrong or misleading answers. That is part of the evasive nature of the unknown or untamed mind. The ego tells you, "We are too smart to have fallen for something like that or for getting into trouble ergo it must be the fault of some other agent for our predicament."

 

The mind throws up false causes and solutions as a defense mechanism to avoid the crushing blow of accepting one's own culpability or failure. You start off thinking this is going to take only a handful of 'why' and instead you get ten or twenty whys to sort through. But, if you are willing to cause yourself ego-pain then you keep insisting on the 'why' and you improve at the query aspect and with giving yourself honest answers.

 

In time you start getting intuitive answers to the 'why'. I continued to perform a structured query to see if the intuitive answer was in fact correct on the first shot. It turned out that eventually my intuition was clearly and reliably giving me the 'bottom-line' answer to only one instance of asking myself 'why'.

 

That is guidepost that indicated to me that I was making good progress not only with being honest with myself but in being able to dispel my own mental enchantments that I threw over myself to avoid dealing with the truth.

[Lucky7Strikes]

SF Jane,

 

I feel that you are here to uh...justify yourself. You harshly filter people through your ego. You listen to who you want, and don't consider beyond what your conceptual frame is. We all of course have this, and need it, but we should at least be sincere in trying to understand each other.

 

What's the point of this thread? Not much. Your ego rambling on in all its fragile doubts, pride, and sense of entitlement. Some people applaud you for sharing and what not, but behind the seeming honesty is the vicious readiness to cut down anyone in your way.

 

Maybe you've been burnt once from being too open minded, but that shouldn't lead you too far to the other side. Why can't you stay in the middle?

[goldisheavy]

By not discerning/fixing what 'I' perceive as 'I' perceive... I'm going to start using more laughing emoticons if I get cornered into describing what I can't, so be warned . Paul

 

How do you discern 'I' from not-'I'?

Edited April 17, 2010 by goldisheavy

[SFJane]

SF Jane,

 

I feel that you are here to uh...justify yourself. You harshly filter people through your ego. You listen to who you want, and don't consider beyond what your conceptual frame is. We all of course have this, and need it, but we should at least be sincere in trying to understand each other.

 

What's the point of this thread? Not much. Your ego rambling on in all its fragile doubts, pride, and sense of entitlement. Some people applaud you for sharing and what not, but behind the seeming honesty is the vicious readiness to cut down anyone in your way.

 

Maybe you've been burnt once from being too open minded, but that shouldn't lead you too far to the other side. Why can't you stay in the middle?

 

Most of your posts in this thread have been completely useless. But I'll say this, you figured out what the title of this thread was about. My justifying why I am harsh about so called powers display and all the talk about siddhi.

 

You and Spirit Ape both share this position that in light of my OP I was just supposed to lay on my back and spread my legs and take whatever bs and abuse and condescension that some of you, including you, responded with.

 

You and SA need to pay attention to something. I don't give a rat's bottom about ego supremacy. I said before that I am not Buddhist. I have never claimed to be enlightened or to have mastered ego. I claimed to have found sanity and become happy as a person. That's all. If you want to attack the person of Jane rather than the ideas of Jane then Jane will attack back and point out your flaws.

 

According to your standards, my actually responding passionately to your patronizing criticisms is proof of ego. So by your standard, passing on replying to your posts and taking what was coming to me by posting this thread in the first place was the only thing I could have done to prove I was above ego or whatever. Like I have no right to disagree back to those who have disagreed with me. Shut up and turn the other cheek am I right? Not on your life. I am a martial artist and if you strike me I will cut you down in return. If you can't handle having a debate get out of here and go find some safe thread that won't challenge you and your ideas about yourself and the world.

[C T]

SF Jane,

 

I feel that you are here to uh...justify yourself. You harshly filter people through your ego. You listen to who you want, and don't consider beyond what your conceptual frame is. We all of course have this, and need it, but we should at least be sincere in trying to understand each other.

 

What's the point of this thread? Not much. Your ego rambling on in all its fragile doubts, pride, and sense of entitlement. Some people applaud you for sharing and what not, but behind the seeming honesty is the vicious readiness to cut down anyone in your way.

 

Maybe you've been burnt once from being too open minded, but that shouldn't lead you too far to the other side. Why can't you stay in the middle?

Well its pretty obvious Jane is quite self-absorbed. ME, MYSELF, I, and MINE... clearly demonstrated in the post above yours.

Just count all the I's in that short post.

 

Not being critical... just an observation in passing.

[goldisheavy]

and even if you did, my anti-magic belief will strip your powers away before you get anywhere near me.

 

Ain't that the truth? If we accept the premise that beliefs and intent create reality, people who don't believe in magic must have equally powerful beliefs and intent.

 

It all runs on the same set of batteries.

[Trunk]

~~~ TheTaoBums Moderation Team ~~~

 

I ask everyone participating in this thread to take a few breaths, dispel any negativity you might have, and generate loving kindness.

 

There have already been moderation actions (plural) behind the scenes to (hopefully) help facilitate this.

 

If you could bring the discussion back around to a spirit of kindness and clarifying principle, not attacking each other, and just let whatever prior ruffles be water under the bridge, well... I'd really appreciate it.

 

love,

Trunk

 

~~~ Mod Squad out ~~~

[SFJane]

Ain't that the truth? If we accept the premise that beliefs and intent create reality, people who don't believe in magic must have equally powerful beliefs and intent.

 

It all runs on the same set of batteries.

 

 

Assuming it's not just words to you this shows you have some understanding.

[thelerner]

I posted earlier siddhi's should be accepted but not desired.

 

I try to contradict myself once a day, so let me say I desire 'powers' in dream work. From the simple memorizing of the multiple dreams at night, which is very doable, to lucidity and beyond; looking at and understanding other dimensions that may or may not be out there.

 

In dream work is an oft forgotten but necessary step on the spiritual road. I'm haunted by a question Ron Jeremy once asked 'How will your practice help you when your dead?' I may be wrong but I suspect a possible answer lies with mastery of lucidity.

 

 

 

Michael