Li Jiong Posted March 8, 2006 (edited) Edited November 20, 2006 by Li Jiong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thaddeus Posted March 8, 2006 (edited) I am translating a valuable book <Real Meaning of Dao De Jing>, the first part of this invaluable translation is now available at http://www.yiquando.com/Dao.html. Any comments are welcome. 81 dollars to read a part of your translation for commentary is a lot to ask for don't you think? My two cents.. T Edited March 8, 2006 by thaddeus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) It seems yet few people are interested in this translation, the translation work is suspended. Edited November 20, 2006 by Li Jiong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lozen Posted March 9, 2006 IMHO, it is not everyone has the qualification to read such a divine book. If the unworthy ones get this book, they cannot understand its profound meaning, and then they will slander it, this will be a profanity, and it will be my blame. A high price is a means to prevent the unworthy ones get it. Of course, if compared with the real value of this book, this price is not high at all. To a real cultivator, this book is worth to be read again and again for at least hundreds of times, please don't measure it as a common book. Â Â RED FLAG RED FLAG RED FLAG MORE RED FLAGS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 9, 2006  We are Unworthy   Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emelgee Posted March 9, 2006 I choose to be unworthy. Â If $81.00 is all it takes to be classified as worthy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lozen Posted March 9, 2006 I choose to be unworthy. Â If $81.00 is all it takes to be classified as worthy... Â Â YEAH! This is the taoBUMS remember? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 9, 2006 Thanks for all response. I do not want to offend anyone; and I do not say the one who does not order this translation must be unworthy. I just think that perhaps I will find the proper readers for this translation by this way. BTW, for our Internal Cultivation Group members, this translation is also a part of the Internal Cultivation course, their membership will be automatically extended for one year more by ordering this program. The members can get my online guidance there. Actually, we have had a lot of profound discussion there already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeform Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) . Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thaddeus Posted March 9, 2006 Thanks for all response. I do not want to offend anyone; and I do not say the one who does not order this translation must be unworthy. I just think that perhaps I will find the proper readers for this translation by this way. BTW, for our Internal Cultivation Group members, this translation is also a part of the Internal Cultivation course, their membership will be automatically extended for one year more by ordering this program. The members can get my online guidance there. Actually, we have had a lot of profound discussion there already. Â Â This is great! I think we should all do this...let's start charging each other to read our posts. For example, say I come up with a great meridian exercise. I can charge you say $21 to read it and provide some commentary. But I'll go one step further and provide a money back guarantee. So if you don't find the exercise helpful, I'll return the money. But only if you are divine, because obviously you won't benefit from my deep spiritual insights. In that case you don't deserve to read it, but I'll keep your $21 anyway in the best interests of this secret knowledge.. cool! T Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pietro Posted March 9, 2006 Off topic respect to this, out of historical context, pecuniary request. Â Are there fake meanings? - How do you know they're fake? how do you know yours is 'real'? What makes your meaning more 'real' than others? can there only be one 'real' meaning? Hou would I know that your meaning is the real one? Â You know FF, you are always in this everything is equivalent space, but somehow I never seem to be that convinced by it. Not that I don't think that the final serenity does not include a serious measure of equanimity. I just can't be convinced that you are actually there. Call me an asshole, for pointing it out, as this might actually make you fall into some deep shit. You see, it just keep on seeming very mental. And it makes me wonder how much are you able to follow it with your body, with your emotion, with your heart. Are you as happy when you lose your loved one as when you find her again? Is it equivalent to you losing money and finding it? Is it the same when you act wicked and shortsighted, and when you acted with wisdom and depth of reasoning? Losing yourself and ifnding yourself, are those the same to you as well? Â I am just wondering. Â It seems a nice place to be in, but not an easy place to be in if you are interested to keep on learning. After all why would you do it, if everything is equivalent. But if the equivalence is only mental you might be giving up the possibility to learn for a peace that will not help you when things get really tough in life. Because at that point your mind will keep on claiming an equanimity that your cells and emotions and energy don't feel. Â Do you see what I mean? Â Â Pietro (who sometimes likes to play the Coyote part ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine Posted March 9, 2006 People, come one... although I personally don't feel that a high price (whatever that is) is a good distinguishment for "worthy" or "unworty"... nevertheless... those who are honestly interested will find a way to pay the price... and 81 dollars isn't much at all for a translation...do you think? There are many many endless hours involved in doing such a translation... Â but if I get it correct the "critiscism" does not really refer to the price for the complete translation but for getting access to a part of the translation... one can talk about this... (Li Jiong... you hear?) Â To those who feel "offended" by Li Jiongs words I assume he will not mind me saying that he is doing his best with his English, but that it can be that it sometimes does not come accross as he very likely means it... give him the bonus of not being a native speaker and don't judge him by his language only... up to this point I have learned him to be a very honest person, willing to share what he really has experienced and what he hasn't. Â Regarding "real" and "fake"... a commentary by a practitioner (Huang Yuanji... please note that Li Jiong does not say it is his commentary, but that he is the translator of the book "Real Meaning of Dao De Jing"...!) of the art gives the book more credit in my opinion, than a modern day commentary without a practitioner's experience... Â Harry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Smile Posted March 9, 2006 To be honest, my red flags went up as soon as I read the title "Real Meaning of Dao De Jing". - Are there fake meanings? - How do you know they're fake? how do you know yours is 'real'? What makes your meaning more 'real' than others? can there only be one 'real' meaning? Hou would I know that your meaning is the real one? Â I would say the real meaning is the one you get after reading the text of Tao Te Jing. This is your personal understanding based on what you are at the present moment. What can be more real then that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine Posted March 9, 2006 >>>I would say the real meaning is the one you get after reading the text of Tao Te Jing. This is your personal understanding based on what you are at the present moment. What can be more real then that?<<< Â Â Hmmmmmmm... sure you are right, but why discuss the question real or not... ??? Â >>>In the middle of 19th century, an outstanding Daoist Huang Yuanji commentated Dao De Jing perfectly; and later in 1884, he published the book Real Meaning of Dao De Jing. In this book, he not only explains the philosophy side in detail, but also offers the concrete internal cultivating knacks to us. It is a perfect course of Dao cultivation actually.<<< (taken from: www.yiquando.com) Â the name of the book was given by Huang Yuanji 120 years ago... we can hardly argue with him about it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turbo Posted March 9, 2006 the name of the book was given by Huang Yuanji 120 years ago... we can hardly argue with him about it... You may not be able to argue with him. But you can settle the argument for yourself by taking the course and practicing the contents and instructions diligently. Â Seems like an interesting couse, at a relatively inexpenive price, especially if it is the key to the Dao, contains practices, and comes with support. A weekend intensive with a qigong master is $150+, and they wont lead you all the way to the Dao in a weekend. Bill Bodri's books are not cheap, and the content is well worth it (at least How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization ($90+) was, I havent read any others). $81 to gain unity with the Dao? Thats nothing. Sure there are resources that are free, but its important to gather knowledge from all spiritual traditions in order to compare your own and to be able to relate better to other seekers. Â Where Li's apprach is poor, in my opinion is in not offering a bit of the book for free, to give us a look and to substantiate the claims he makes. But the cost is really a non issue $81 or $810 even $8,100 is very little to pay for correct instructions on how to efficiently and effectivy attain untiy with the Dao. People have given their lives to accumulate, protect, and correctly dissimenate this knowlege, and we have the audacity to scoff at a price $81? Ha. (This of course assumes that these instructions are contained in the book Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Yeah... experience is all there is... Edited March 10, 2006 by sunshine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted March 10, 2006 Reality check. Â Unity w/ the Tao won't be found in a book. Or a pill. Or a potion. Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â A video tape maybe. A book, no. Â Â Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine Posted March 10, 2006 Reality check.  Unity w/ the Tao won't be found in a book. Or a pill. Or a potion. A video tape maybe. A book, no. Michael  as I say... experience is all there is and a book can help you guide experience maybe even better as a just 1 hour video...  just wanting to have the last word Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 10, 2006 Thanks for all the kindness and understanding! I have added a supporting guarantee (1 year) of the program, actually, which I already declared in our Internal Cultivation Group a few days ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 10, 2006 To be honest, my red flags went up as soon as I read the title "Real Meaning of Dao De Jing". - Are there fake meanings? - How do you know they're fake? how do you know yours is 'real'? What makes your meaning more 'real' than others? can there only be one 'real' meaning? Hou would I know that your meaning is the real one? Â Please understand that you may well have something profound to share... But when you make it seem like you've got some 'real' profundity, while others have unreal/fake profundities, it automaticaly sets off warning lights in most people - especially if you charge $81 for it. Â Thanks for the advice! But actually, I just translate the title from the Chinese version honestly. Mr. Huang Yuanji have published this book for more than 120 years already, but it seems there were few people did query this title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emelgee Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Oops... Edited March 10, 2006 by Emelgee Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 10, 2006 People, come one... although I personally don't feel that a high price (whatever that is) is a good distinguishment for "worthy" or "unworty"... nevertheless... those who are honestly interested will find a way to pay the price... and 81 dollars isn't much at all for a translation...do you think? There are many many endless hours involved in doing such a translation... Â Â Thank you for your understanding, Harry. I admit that perhaps a high price is not the best way to shield something divine being away from profanity. But yet I do not have a better way. The original work is in classical Chinese, there are not many modern Chinese can read classical Chinese easily. Fortunately, I did major in Traditional Chinese Medicine in the university, and so I can read classical Chinese well. Furthermore, this is a Dao cultivation book, there are a lot of practice depictions, if one does not have the living experience of practice, it is very hard to understand them. Fortunately again, I have the experience of internal cultivation for almost 20 years. Even though I have these advantages, to translate such a book, I still feel it is much harder than I write a book in the same length by myself. The book is very long; the full English version will be about one thousand pages. The book contains a lot of profound information, just as a friend says: "There is enough things to contemplate and learn in the first part that I will not need anything more for many years". Therefore, I really do not think that $81 for a part of this translation is too expensive so long as you are really ready to read such a profound book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 10, 2006 You may not be able to argue with him. But you can settle the argument for yourself by taking the course and practicing the contents and instructions diligently.  Seems like an interesting couse, at a relatively inexpenive price, especially if it is the key to the Dao, contains practices, and comes with support. A weekend intensive with a qigong master is $150+, and they wont lead you all the way to the Dao in a weekend. Bill Bodri's books are not cheap, and the content is well worth it (at least How to Measure and Deepen Your Spiritual Realization ($90+) was, I havent read any others). $81 to gain unity with the Dao? Thats nothing. Sure there are resources that are free, but its important to gather knowledge from all spiritual traditions in order to compare your own and to be able to relate better to other seekers.  Where Li's apprach is poor, in my opinion is in not offering a bit of the book for free, to give us a look and to substantiate the claims he makes. But the cost is really a non issue $81 or $810 even $8,100 is very little to pay for correct instructions on how to efficiently and effectivy attain untiy with the Dao. People have given their lives to accumulate, protect, and correctly dissimenate this knowlege, and we have the audacity to scoff at a price $81? Ha. (This of course assumes that these instructions are contained in the book  Thank you for your kindness and understanding. Huang Yuanji is respected as an immortal as Lao Zi in Chinese Daoists circle, so originally, I thought that it might be not necessary to show the excellence of his book volubly. It seems I am wrong. Anyway, time will verify all the things, let's wait and see. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine Posted March 10, 2006 Thank you for your understanding, Harry. I admit that perhaps a high price is not the best way to shield something divine being away from profanity. But yet I do not have a better way. Â I might be wrong, Li Jiong, but I wouldn't worry about the devine becoming profane or abused... those who are not ready for the work won't read it, those who are part ready will read it partly and stop sooner or later even thinking about it... those who are ready will approach it that way... Â divine will stay divine, and "profane" stay "profane"... no harm done, I assume... Â Harry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Li Jiong Posted March 10, 2006 I might be wrong, Li Jiong, but I wouldn't worry about the devine becoming profane or abused... those who are not ready for the work won't read it, those who are part ready will read it partly and stop sooner or later even thinking about it... those who are ready will approach it that way...  divine will stay divine, and "profane" stay "profane"... no harm done, I assume...  Harry  I agree. I believe God has the ability and the way to shield and sustain something divine. I just do what I feel natural. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
