Real Meaning of Dao De Jing

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 28, 2021 by darebak

[Wayfarer64]

Li Jiong say: For example, I see the photos of thelerner, Ian, Sean and Plato here, I feel the Xiantian energy level of Sean and Plato are much higher than the level of thelerner and Ian, from their posts, I get the same feeling. Perhaps you can feel this too if you put their photos together. I do not want to attack anyone, just give an example.

 

Chris says: boo! bad form! Don't diss any of the 'bums! Please pick on pop culture icons that we all know.

 

I don't see this as disrespecting those who are devalued, only making value judgements that are based in extremely superficial observations. This devalues the observation not the observed.

 

But, hey- There is plenty of personal judgement being expressed here at the Taobums. It is in fact a pretty common practice. We each have our monumental cartload of baggage to tote along with us on these threads. There will be and should be many disagreements and observations that will make some others uncomfortible. I think we each have made some judgements of each other, even if sight unseen. These observations have little validity but remain our subjective viewpoints.

 

Li Jiong- I have also tried to be supportive of your work... but the hubris that you have displayed here has put me off. What is true for each of us need not be an absolute truth for all, but the truth for each of us in our current place in space and time. This is true of my book as well as yours. It is true of the "Holy Bible" and the Koran. Each has its place in historical time when it makes the most sense. There is room in the Tao to offer all these attempts at communication. Each one will be of help to someone at some time. I remain your ally in these efforts, but this is not an absolute loyalty to your viewpoints or manners.

 

It is tough enough to go through these processes of cultivation without the added weight of superficial valuations. I regret that I have done this as well. It may be that we can each be more compassionate from time to time...I for one - just appreciate the opportunity to share here on the Taobums site and hope that my "baggage" doesn't keep me from paying attention to other's inner light and spiritual offerings, while keeping an eye on what I'm carrying, as if it has more value than what is offered here from others...

[Smile]

It's true- your energy is present in everything you write. Doesn't really matter what. Some people may see it as a judgement, but so everything we say is a personal judgement of the outside/inner world filtered through "I".

M.

[freeform]

everything we say is a personal judgement of the outside/inner world filtered through "I".

M.

 

it's true - but everything we read/hear is filtered through "I" - so unless the "I" is clear of obstructions and illusions what we read/hear/see is coloured by our own egos/identities...

[thaddeus]

For a western explanation, the works of Carlos Castaneda (whether you choose to believe him or not) illustrate these concepts throughout. For example, one's capacity for 'dreaming' (not ordinary dreaming) is directly related to one's congenital power. There are a number of factors for this congenital power, one of which is how much passion the parents had for each other at the time of conception. There is a term called 'bored sex' to describe people who have very lower congenital power. This means the parents were just going through the motions and did not have great passion or had low energy themselves. The chinese bedroom secrets book translated by douglas wile also outlines other conditions that relate to amount of power you can get at conception. Castaneda called it 'personal power'. How much personal power you have directly contributes to how successful you can be in your cultivation or worldly pursuits. Luck, Libido, ability to concentrate are all related to this. In fact, a large part of Castaneda's training was to learn how to increase one's power..a large part of this was to stop wasting energy in thoughts and in the ego. Two basic ideas were to cultivate mindfulness (stop the world) and slay the dragon of the ego (erase personal history and self importance). This freed up energy can be used then for cultivation.

It sounds like I'm a Castaneda follower, I'm not. I just read his books and recognized what is going on in there for the most part.

You can do whatever you choose with this energy. Some are fortunate to learn about cultivation, some will have to wait. Some create fortunes and some squander it away in lesser pursuits.

I'm not saying anything new or profound, just reporting on what I see.

T

[thelerner]

From the house holder (type training) perspective, the doctor who dabbles is worth more then deep solo cultivator. There is certainly room in the world for both, but the person who stays a doctor is connected with people and helping people.

 

So what if he can only meditate 1 hour a day instead of 5 or 6. So what if he reads fewer books. The motions of life are the tests and the playing field. I'm not sure what we can take with us once we're dead. Something between bliss with God and food for maggots.

 

IMHO we can't identify so much with an Ism that we turn our backs to our family, friends or community. Because the ism is or maybe its not.

 

Michael

[thaddeus]

From the house holder (type training) perspective, the doctor who dabbles is worth more then deep solo cultivator. There is certainly room in the world for both, but the person who stays a doctor is connected with people and helping people.

 

So what if he can only meditate 1 hour a day instead of 5 or 6. So what if he reads fewer books. The motions of life are the tests and the playing field. I'm not sure what we can take with us once we're dead. Something between bliss with God and food for maggots.

 

IMHO we can't identify so much with an Ism that we turn our backs to our family, friends or community. Because the ism is or maybe its not.

 

Michael

Hi Michael,

however this is precisely what the buddha did. And many great teachers did likewise. From one perspective, people who 'stay connected with people' are operating on the level of ego, maya, illusion, thought. It's all transient monkey mind lunacy, so what are they really doing? Illusions meet illusions to treat illusion creating more illusion. People arguing to be right, not wrong, strengthening their own egos. Maybe they see this is all 'not real', so why bother. I think the buddha sensed this and went ultimately to break through it all, he did later come back, fully awakened and helped awaken the wife and child he left behind earlier.

What if Moses stayed under the richness of pharoh, what if jesus stayed a simple carpenter, seems like at some point we need to transcend and see things for that they really are.

isms are just isms..that's why we don't need to join anything or follow creeds..that's just trading off a smaller ego for a collective ego..so we can talk about 'them' and 'us' instead of 'you' and 'me'.

T

[mYTHmAKER]

Path, schmath

It doesn't matter what path one takes in life.

It is one's attitude that counts.

Everyone has an equal shot

and what seems to be a handycap can help.

For all we know maybe the race is fixed

[voice]

thaddeus wrote: From one perspective, people who 'stay connected with people' are operating on the level of ego, maya, illusion, thought. It's all transient monkey mind lunacy, so what are they really doing? Illusions meet illusions to treat illusion creating more illusion.

 

For me, it is not illusion -- it is all real: dimensions into dimensions of reality. All to become conscious of, all to come into personal balance with.

 

For me, this is a community and, like a family, it does not function well when people are pitted against each other. I've known Ian virtually and personally for over 5 years, and Thelerner virtually for more than that. We have a history, we support each other in this long and wonderful process of way-making.

 

Who on this site has more xiantian? I do not care. What I care about is cultivating this community, this level of reality.

 

Chris

[Ian]

Li Jiong may well be right.

 

Though having said that, Plato's avatar was a turd last time I looked. If I'm being unfavourably compared to that, I may be a tiny bit disappointed.

 

It does seem that we are all consistently politer in threads where no-one's selling anything. Maybe there should be a separate section.

[hagar]

[DentyDao]

Just for the record, I have no idea how much or how refined my XianTian is. I'm not making a judgement about what Li Jiong said here, but I'm very much a beginner in terms of what I have accomplished in my practice. And not to sound condisending, but everyone on this board is, in all likelihood, a beginner relatively speaking.

 

I'm sad that Li Jiong left the board because I really appreciate the fact that he's Chinese and a practicing Daoist. Even if he is a beginner himself, he has a very valuable perspective as Chinese Taoist who is trying to reach out with his work here. It's unfortunate that he was not encouraged to share his knowledge in a more useful way. We could all have learned something interesting about some of the basic tenets and concepts that are the foundation of traditional taoist cultivation, but instead members here chose to pick apart Li jiong's intentions and unfairly judge him for cultural and belief differences that are very Chinese. The fact that this was not recognized is very telling and shows a lack of understanding about chinese culture and customs in general.

 

If you new what some masters in China charge for just the basics, you would soil yourself. And, the cost is well worth it. It means the difference between actual accomplishment and puttering around with bits and pieces that get you nowhere.

 

I find the pettiness and lack of compassion telling and very immature. Some of the members here come off like whiney teenagers bitching about an $80 translation. Plato is right, you should be ashamed of your selves. It shows unserious attitude that is very much frowned upon by any Shi fu worth his name. People here should be more sincere and understanding; it's about self respect and not acting like an ass, even from the comfort of your desk top PC.

 

Hey, maybe Li Jiong is off base here in some areas (who really knows?), but that doesn't mean we should dismiss the valuable insights he's has to share; very valuable cultural insights if nothing else.

 

S

Edited November 29, 2006 by seandenty

[thaddeus]

Just for the record, I have no idea how much or how refined my XianTian is. I'm not making a judgement about what Li Jiong said here, but I'm very much a beginner in terms of what I have accomplished in my practice. And not to sound condisending, but everyone on this board is, in all likelihood, a beginner relatively speaking.

 

Actually, I thought he meant big Sean. You don't have a pic in your avatar.

For the record, I don't think anyone was whining about the money. I personally dropped any rancor long ago and I believe so did most if not all of us. You seem to have missed the apologies and other very laudible ways some of us acted here in your broadsweeping swipe at us.

 

T

[DentyDao]

Actually, I thought he meant big Sean. You don't have a pic in your avatar.

For the record, I don't think anyone was whining about the money. I personally dropped any rancor long ago and I believe so did most if not all of us. You seem to have missed the apologies and other very laudible ways some of us acted here in your broadsweeping swipe at us.

 

Who cares? I think you need to hear it again. My impression is that many of the people who responded to Li Jiong just wanted to kick him while he was down. I don't feel this changed much throughout the posting, but I'm not saying everyone was acting this way; many were supportive, but I think the negative is easier to hear and it's really too bad.

 

What you completly fail to comprehend here in your rush to defend your self is the fact the Li Jiong has left this forum because he felt misunderstood and attacked; gee, I wonder why.

 

Instead of worrying about who Li Jiong is complimenting and your next whitty come back, why don't you post something meaningful and positive. Perhaps if you weren't so busy being smug, you could look past some of the humanness of nice people like Li Jiong and just listen to what he has to say without being so insecure.

 

S

[Uncle Fester]

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Edited September 28, 2021 by darebak

[thaddeus]

...

edited comments..

No Mas! No Mas...dude, I give up...later..

T

[Li Jiong]

This translation can be download at http://greattao.net/Forum/viewthread.php?t...;extra=page%3D1 now for no real money charge, so long as you have enough forum money there.