Getting to full lotus

[Eviander]

Since I hear that a comfortable full lotus posture is the ultimatum for meditation, I have an interest in doing yogic stretches or other exercises pin pointed to allow me to get into full lotus comfortably. I have been doing hatha yoga for a little bit, but my second instructor said he was not able to get into lotus even though he was at an advanced level. This being said the yoga postures that I have been practicing have not been targeted at the full lotus posture and I would like some recommendations onto what routine I should pursue specifically for the purpose of getting into full lotus comfortably.

Edited April 11, 2010 by Eviander

[Sloppy Zhang]

Since I hear that a comfortable full lotus posture is the ultimatum for meditation, I have an interest in doing yogic stretches or other exercises pin pointed to allow me to get into full lotus comfortably. I have been doing hatha yoga for a little bit, but my second instructor said he was not able to get into lotus even though he was at an advanced level. This being said the yoga postures that I have been practicing have not been targeted at the full lotus posture and I would like some recommendations onto what routine I should pursue specifically for the purpose of getting into full lotus comfortably.

 

I'm sure someone's gonna come in here and post some good stretches, and I don't know any good stretches anyway, so I'm just going to say this:

 

Focus on actually relaxing the muscles and stuff, rather than trying to stretch. Because if you just stretch it will take you significantly longer. If you get the Qi Dao book it talks about it, and B.K. Frantzis talks about it here.

 

Also helpful for lotus is to work on opening and moving from the kwa. This little bit was also in one of B.K. Frantzis' books, and it helped my lotus position tremendously. Everyone focuses on the knees and how you gotta stretch out the knees, but really, the kwa helps a lot. Even if you can moderately stretch, good kwa control will help a lot.

[effilang]

Since I hear that a comfortable full lotus posture is the ultimatum for meditation, I have an interest in doing yogic stretches or other exercises pin pointed to allow me to get into full lotus comfortably. I have been doing hatha yoga for a little bit, but my second instructor said he was not able to get into lotus even though he was at an advanced level. This being said the yoga postures that I have been practicing have not been targeted at the full lotus posture and I would like some recommendations onto what routine I should pursue specifically for the purpose of getting into full lotus comfortably.

 

There is already quite a lot written on this over here:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/10207-full-lotus-only-hurts-when-i-get-out-of-the-position/

 

Give it a read

 

 

Here are some of the prepatory poses:

Ardha Matsyendrasana

Baddha Konasana

Janu Sirsasana

Virasana

 

Langster

[gendao]

^ I'm not sure how useful those stretches actually are now. Based upon personal experience since then, the primary stretch for full-lotus really seems to be the Upavistha Konasana "WASFB" or "T-stretch" (taken from this video):

Right now, my routine consists of a initial "toe-touch" to loosen my hamstrings...

Then I'll start with (trying) the American splits from 1 direction...into the Chinese splits...into the American splits in the other direction...& back into the Chinese splits.

(All these stretches are mainly just preparatory "warm-up" stretches for the WASFB/T-stretch. They themselves aren't directly going to help you get into full-lotus much.)

From that point, I'll then slowly bend down forward into the actual WASFB/T-stretch.

Similar to this routine here:

Then I'll finish up with a Bakasana "Crow" Pose, modified Butterfly Pose & "Asian squat" - using my elbows to push my knees apart - for a final bit of kua stretching.

 

Be sure you do all these stretches slowly and know your limits, though. The wushu lady in that 2nd video is obviously extremely flexible and so can just drop into each stretch fully & effortlessly. Most of us likely can't do that yet.

 

And as was said earlier - the focus should be on opening your kua (groin & hips), not distending your knees or ankles..

 

End result:

Edited April 11, 2010 by vortex

[~jK~]

Since I hear that a comfortable full lotus posture is the ultimatum for meditation, I have an interest in doing yogic stretches or other exercises pin pointed to allow me to get into full lotus comfortably. I have been doing hatha yoga for a little bit, but my second instructor said he was not able to get into lotus even though he was at an advanced level. This being said the yoga postures that I have been practicing have not been targeted at the full lotus posture and I would like some recommendations onto what routine I should pursue specifically for the purpose of getting into full lotus comfortably.

I did it many years ago by practicing the best full lotus I could get into and then grabing a knee and pulling my body toward it and then changing knees.

 

As far as meditation goes, my best meditation has been on park benches, bus rides and in the AM after sleeping.

 

The best overall Yogic exercise for developmental meditation is by far the Savasana - here is the exercise: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11802-awakening-psychic-abilities/

 

The best exercise for aligning our body, clearing our electrical system and practicing meditation - using the full lotus can be found in a book called The Five Tibetans that is partially explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Tibetan_Rites

but is far better explained in the 85 page, with 10 full page pictures with large print book.

 

My day is to practice the Savasana at night, T5T (The Five Tibetans) in the morning and others as time, place, location and mood present themselves.

 

A booklet on how meditation is practised in Zen monasteries - Opening the Hand of Thought, Revised and Expanded Edition: Foundations of Zen Buddhist Practice (Paperback)

~ Kosho Uchiyama Roshi

 

Here's another page on the Zafu: http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/Z/zafuSewingInstructions.html

 

The Zafu raises your rear slightly to make the full lotus a bit more comfortable...

[Scarlet Wampus]

Wow, you know effilang I have doing those postures for a long time now and still can't get into full lotus!

[Lucky7Strikes]

From my childhood I had misalignment of knee joints and the legs. Staying in full lotus for more than 2, 3 minutes was excruciating to say the least. I tried the stretches but most were of no use.

 

With inquiry, I sat, almost spontaneously, in full lotus for 25-30 minutes in complete bliss.

 

2 cents.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Eviander]

I did it many years ago by practicing the best full lotus I could get into and then grabing a knee and pulling my body toward it and then changing knees.

 

As far as meditation goes, my best meditation has been on park benches, bus rides and in the AM after sleeping.

 

The best overall Yogic exercise for developmental meditation is by far the Savasana - here is the exercise: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11802-awakening-psychic-abilities/

 

The best exercise for aligning our body, clearing our electrical system and practicing meditation - using the full lotus can be found in a book called The Five Tibetans that is partially explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Tibetan_Rites

but is far better explained in the 85 page, with 10 full page pictures with large print book.

 

My day is to practice the Savasana at night, T5T (The Five Tibetans) in the morning and others as time, place, location and mood present themselves.

 

A booklet on how meditation is practised in Zen monasteries - Opening the Hand of Thought, Revised and Expanded Edition: Foundations of Zen Buddhist Practice (Paperback)

~ Kosho Uchiyama Roshi

 

Here's another page on the Zafu: http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/Z/zafuSewingInstructions.html

 

The Zafu raises your rear slightly to make the full lotus a bit more comfortable...

 

Actually I just started the Tibetan 5 rites according to a dvd, but the author of the book you mention would benefit my knowledge of this Tibetan yantra yoga (The only author I know who covered them is Samael Aun Weor). As for full lotus , I was hoping there was some trick into getting into it. I've been trying what you said, about just getting into the best lotus possible and sitting there for the stretch or pulling my knees but I guess it does not work that well. I will have to try the T-stretch. J/w..are there any tai-chi routines or qigong exercises for full lotus or would a general practice of the basics help regardless of what routine it is (which is not the case for hatha)

Edited April 12, 2010 by Eviander

[UTI]

[Gjeken]

Speaking from my own experience i don't think stretching mathers.

I tried stretching every day for months and i still couldn't last 5 minutes in full lotus without pain and numb legs.

Now my energy channels has started to open and i can sit in full lotus for 30 minutes without any problem and i haven't done any stretching at all lately.

[King Kabalabhati]

Chunyi Lin says if you can sit for a minute today, 2 minutes tomorrow, not mind the pain so much and keep on going then it will help open your channels and make you more flexible all in all. So full lotus is a stretch in itself

[~jK~]

Actually I just started the Tibetan 5 rites according to a dvd, but the author of the book you mention would benefit my knowledge of this Tibetan yantra yoga (The only author I know who covered them is Samael Aun Weor). As for full lotus , I was hoping there was some trick into getting into it. I've been trying what you said, about just getting into the best lotus possible and sitting there for the stretch or pulling my knees but I guess it does not work that well. I will have to try the T-stretch. J/w..are there any tai-chi routines or qigong exercises for full lotus or would a general practice of the basics help regardless of what routine it is (which is not the case for hatha)

 

The trick - in the book by the Japanese author who is the head monk in a Buddhist monestary - where they teach meditation to beginners for 8 hours per day, 3 days a week - is the Zafu and Zabuton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zafu

I was not familiar with yantra yoga so I searched - here is a video that I found: http://yantrayoga.org/

 

I live in Hong Kong where I have studied Asian culture, philosophy and meditation for a little over 10 years.

As far as Tibet, I've researched its history back for about 700 years to find that almost all of the culture & philosophy, in Tibet, came from either India or China.

 

What is in Tibet now is largely 'marketing for tourism' of which tourism is the main income. The monks are not like buddhist monks -or monks from a religion - they are the nobles of a feudal society who are the only ones allowed to own land. The situation there is largely this: http://library.thinkquest.org/10949/fief/lofeudal.html

Although it is changing . . . slowly.

 

On Yoga, To make a long story short, I would bypass Tibet and study more from India and China. India is where it developed - China is where it is evolving.

[Eviander]

The trick - in the book by the Japanese author who is the head monk in a Buddhist monestary - where they teach meditation to beginners for 8 hours per day, 3 days a week - is the Zafu and Zabuton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zafu

I was not familiar with yantra yoga so I searched - here is a video that I found: http://yantrayoga.org/

 

I live in Hong Kong where I have studied Asian culture, philosophy and meditation for a little over 10 years.

As far as Tibet, I've researched its history back for about 700 years to find that almost all of the culture & philosophy, in Tibet, came from either India or China.

 

What is in Tibet now is largely 'marketing for tourism' of which tourism is the main income. The monks are not like buddhist monks -or monks from a religion - they are the nobles of a feudal society who are the only ones allowed to own land. The situation there is largely this: http://library.thinkquest.org/10949/fief/lofeudal.html

Although it is changing . . . slowly.

 

On Yoga, To make a long story short, I would bypass Tibet and study more from India and China. India is where it developed - China is where it is evolving.

 

On the contrary Tibetan Buddhist practices are some of the most highly developed because of their dream yoga system which from my beginners knowledge, is quite amazing.

 

As for their yoga, I am not to aware of it past the 5 rites, but I am starting to lean out of yoga and look more towards tai chi, qi gong, or karate because of my lack of any real body awareness from yoga..(though there are a select few postures that seem fitting).

[voidisyinyang]

The trick - in the book by the Japanese author who is the head monk in a Buddhist monestary - where they teach meditation to beginners for 8 hours per day, 3 days a week - is the Zafu and Zabuton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zafu

I was not familiar with yantra yoga so I searched - here is a video that I found: http://yantrayoga.org/

 

I live in Hong Kong where I have studied Asian culture, philosophy and meditation for a little over 10 years.

As far as Tibet, I've researched its history back for about 700 years to find that almost all of the culture & philosophy, in Tibet, came from either India or China.

 

What is in Tibet now is largely 'marketing for tourism' of which tourism is the main income. The monks are not like buddhist monks -or monks from a religion - they are the nobles of a feudal society who are the only ones allowed to own land. The situation there is largely this: http://library.thinkquest.org/10949/fief/lofeudal.html

Although it is changing . . . slowly.

 

On Yoga, To make a long story short, I would bypass Tibet and study more from India and China. India is where it developed - China is where it is evolving.

 

That foot shake is pretty fascinating!

 

[King Kabalabhati]

I'm still somewhat stiff so when I go to the full lotus I sometimes bring my legs back straight after a while of enduring the strain. Then when I go into lotus again it feels much easier and after that I can sit for the half hour as I do the Small Universe. It does start to feel uncomfortable towards the end but at the same time kind of "super charged".

[gendao]

Here's a great vid of a gymnastics chick doing a full T-stretch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFQZTYbP39M

Notice how she lays down pretty much entirely flat on the floor while in the full splits - forming a perfect 'T'.

 

So, this is probably one of the best ones I've seen yet - although for full-lotus training you'd want to rotate your toes back as far as you can too.

Edited July 11, 2010 by vortex

[Seth Ananda]

^ I'm not sure how useful those stretches actually are now. Based upon personal experience since then, the primary stretch for full-lotus really seems to be the Upavistha Konasana "WASFB" or "T-stretch" (taken from this video):

Right now, my routine consists of a initial "toe-touch" to loosen my hamstrings...

Then I'll start with (trying) the American splits from 1 direction...into the Chinese splits...into the American splits in the other direction...& back into the Chinese splits.

(All these stretches are mainly just preparatory "warm-up" stretches for the WASFB/T-stretch. They themselves aren't directly going to help you get into full-lotus much.)

From that point, I'll then slowly bend down forward into the actual WASFB/T-stretch.

Similar to this routine here:

Then I'll finish up with a Bakasana "Crow" Pose, modified Butterfly Pose & "Asian squat" - using my elbows to push my knees apart - for a final bit of kua stretching.

 

Be sure you do all these stretches slowly and know your limits, though. The wushu lady in that 2nd video is obviously extremely flexible and so can just drop into each stretch fully & effortlessly. Most of us likely can't do that yet.

 

And as was said earlier - the focus should be on opening your kua (groin & hips), not distending your knees or ankles..

 

End result:

 

Weird, I am not that flexible in hams but have no trouble with them in Full lotus. I don't see how spending alot of time on stretches that have nothing to do with loosening the things that get tight in Lotus would help one get into Lotus.

Did these (all the ham stuff) actually help you get into or spend longer in full Lotus?

The stuff that works for me is the stretches that loosen the hips and buttock region, and at its simplest just sitting legs crossed with one leg a bit further forward, and just stretching/reaching forward slowly drawing stomach to the floor. The tightness I feel there is what I aim for with any other stretch I may do that hits those areas.

 

These loosen everything up enough for me to be able to spend up to an hour or two in lotus no problem. If it has been a while and I am having dificulty, i just do them again and 'Presto!' all good again.

 

I am wondering if deeper into the stretches you showed would do the same thing, but I am not flexible enough, and can't be bothered working towards that. If I need Lotus, I want quick results. heheh

[voidisyinyang]

Weird, I am not that flexible in hams but have no trouble with them in Full lotus. I don't see how spending alot of time on stretches that have nothing to do with loosening the things that get tight in Lotus would help one get into Lotus.

Did these (all the ham stuff) actually help you get into or spend longer in full Lotus?

The stuff that works for me is the stretches that loosen the hips and buttock region, and at its simplest just sitting legs crossed with one leg a bit further forward, and just stretching/reaching forward slowly drawing stomach to the floor. The tightness I feel there is what I aim for with any other stretch I may do that hits those areas.

 

These loosen everything up enough for me to be able to spend up to an hour or two in lotus no problem. If it has been a while and I am having dificulty, i just do them again and 'Presto!' all good again.

 

I am wondering if deeper into the stretches you showed would do the same thing, but I am not flexible enough, and can't be bothered working towards that. If I need Lotus, I want quick results. heheh

 

Yeah I'm the same way but still my chi body channels have closed up quite a bit. For real meditation you want to be in full lotus at least 2 hours straight nonstop without any discomfort -- so the chi channels fill the body. In that case you'd probably could stretch pretty easily. When I was in that state I wasn't interested in stretching but more interested in how the electromagnetic fields affected people around me at a distance -- 10 feet, etc. -- more interested in how the chi created telepathy through the middle of my brain, and how I had telekinesis through my hands, and precognitive visions, etc. More interested in seeing spirits, etc. So I never did try stretching. Damn.

[gendao]

Did these (all the ham stuff) actually help you get into or spend longer in full Lotus?

The stuff that works for me is the stretches that loosen the hips and buttock region, and at its simplest just sitting legs crossed with one leg a bit further forward, and just stretching/reaching forward slowly drawing stomach to the floor. The tightness I feel there is what I aim for with any other stretch I may do that hits those areas.

I think that would accomplish about the same thing as the WASFB - except you won't also be working your splits too. It will also stretch your hamstrings as well as increase the rotational range of your hips. But the splits are optional because they don't really help your full lotus anyways. I just do them because I want to open my kua more in general.

 

And yes, these stretches HAVE helped me a lot! I started nearly a year ago with a very tight half-lotus and a bent back. My half-lotus is now far more comfortable with a straight back and I just test drove a pretty comfortable full lotus yesterday for an easy 10 minutes. My current goal is to be able to meditate fairly comfortably in full lotus for an hour - so, hopefully I'll be able to reach that in a few months..

 

(I am purposely taking my time, not forcing it and making sure my knees are not strained.)

Edited July 12, 2010 by vortex

[Aetherous]

And yes, these stretches HAVE helped me a lot! I started nearly a year ago with a very tight half-lotus and a bent back. My half-lotus is now far more comfortable with a straight back and I just test drove a pretty comfortable full lotus yesterday for an easy 10 minutes. My current goal is to be able to meditate fairly comfortably in full lotus for an hour - so, hopefully I'll be able to reach that in a few months..

 

Awesome...that motivates me to stretch. Thanks!

[NeiChuan]

One way I found myself that got me able to do full lotus fast and for a long time.

 

Its pretty simple and can be painful too. This isn't for energy practices, its really just to get yourself use to full lotus so you can start sitting on the floor and doing your practices ect.

 

So you go to a very fluffy bed.. One you'll sink in, put a pillow at your tailbone so you can sit up and not slouch excessively. Now put your self as far in full lotus as you can go, be careful though, then to sort of lock your ankles slightly lean foward.

 

Then just hold. The pain may be pretty bad but if you can sit through it for maybe 5 minutes, (I use to over do it, would not advise that do to numbness) then you should be able to move on to doing it on flat ground.

 

The reason I find it useful is your not struggling to hold it rather just endure the pain, some may disagree with me saying its a bit masochistic or something but it works.

 

The results are I can hold full lotus for pretty much as long as I want to. I meditate about 45 minutes so it works out, the longest I have is an hour and a half.

 

Good old fashioned stretching will do its job.. Hip flexor stretches people often leave out. So just stretch if you don't want to go through all that over stretching I just mentioned.

[Seth Ananda]

I think that would accomplish about the same thing as the WASFB - except you won't also be working your splits too. It will also stretch your hamstrings as well as increase the rotational range of your hips. But the splits are optional because they don't really help your full lotus anyways. I just do them because I want to open my kua more in general.

 

And yes, these stretches HAVE helped me a lot! I started nearly a year ago with a very tight half-lotus and a bent back. My half-lotus is now far more comfortable with a straight back and I just test drove a pretty comfortable full lotus yesterday for an easy 10 minutes. My current goal is to be able to meditate fairly comfortably in full lotus for an hour - so, hopefully I'll be able to reach that in a few months..

 

(I am purposely taking my time, not forcing it and making sure my knees are not strained.)

 

Cool, and thanks for the point on the Kua, maybe ill reconsider the splits stretches.. It would be nice to have more ham flexibility.

Lotus is just my favourite meditation position. I think though its really Important to protect the knees and I do that with the hip stretches... if my hips are tight there is pressure on the knees.

 

when my daughter was a baby she would grab her big toes in her fists, while on her back and just sort of roll around [still on her back] stretching out her ham strings.

I copied and found it a really good way to work on them as i could ease in and out of the strong pressure really easily. That was good for me cause I hate the ham stretches...

Anyone tried any similar 'Baby Yoga'?

[joeblast]

 

when my daughter was a baby she would grab her big toes in her fists, while on her back and just sort of roll around [still on her back] stretching out her ham strings.

I copied and found it a really good way to work on them as i could ease in and out of the strong pressure really easily. That was good for me cause I hate the ham stretches...

Anyone tried any similar 'Baby Yoga'?

http://www.shiatsu-yoseido.com/meridians.php

 

 

NeiChuan...lock the ankles? That doesnt sound proper - the ankles should be up on top of the thighs and not touching each other, if you're "locking" them together that seems to indicate that only the toes are up on the thighs...and that will bend/stretch the hell out of your feet/ankles, could cause injury.

[NeiChuan]

http://www.shiatsu-yoseido.com/meridians.php

 

 

NeiChuan...lock the ankles? That doesnt sound proper - the ankles should be up on top of the thighs and not touching each other, if you're "locking" them together that seems to indicate that only the toes are up on the thighs...and that will bend/stretch the hell out of your feet/ankles, could cause injury.

 

I guess what I meant was to keep tension and just hold, it won't be to hard when you've sunk in and lean foward a bit. My ankles aren't touching when I do lotus, sorry for the mix up.

[Dainin]

I came across this DVD today and ordered a copy:

 

 

Lotus Pose Padmasana: Preparations and Variations by Erich Schiffman

 

 

It contains loads of exercises and the price is quite reasonable. I read his book years ago and thought it was one of the better ones I've seen on hatha yoga.

 

 

Before long I'll be ready to hit McDonalds!