Carlos Castaneda and Don Juan

[Jox]

Dear All...

What do you think or know about Carlos Castaneda, Don Juan and their lineage of sorcerers. I read all the books and for me, they all are prety cool. Do these lineage of sorcerers still exsist today?

Do we know out here some similar lineages of sorcery like Don Juan lineage?

 

Best wishes, Jox

[宁]

There is another book that you may have missed, it may answer some of your questions:

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/5348-encounters-with-the-nagual/

[Jox]

Thanx...

[Cloudhand]

He ended up like other cults, his followers killed themselfs. Carlos had a couple of good books Tales of Power and Ixtland. The thing I always thought was the guys a con and his books where soapy. Did he do the work, we will never know his students that did not kill themselfs are in hiding. I took him with a grain of salt. Now read some Dan Millman he's a real warrior and did the work too. Cloud

Edited April 12, 2010 by Cloudhand

[goldisheavy]

You can't really know if something is real or not because reality is ultimately your decision. You decide what's real and what's not. The right question is "Do I want to make this real?" And then if yes, "What does it take? What does it mean if I make it real? What are the implications?" And then you have to see if you're ready to accept those implications and consequences.

[TianXian]

Hello; My friends you should look and listen this video:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8575648331106173390#

 

Good Bye

[Cloudhand]

Hello; My friends you should look and listen this video:

 

http://video.google....48331106173390#

 

Good Bye

 

 

There you go my friend let it be known. Cloud

[Eviander]

Funny. Because I watched that video the other day. I really like the idea of a shamnistic way...but they all seem to end up in chaos every time. The only good shaman who wasn't a complete sociopath is Terrence Mckenna from my knowledge...but most of the better stories end up with the shamanistic practitioners turning to yoga and meditation..ect..

[Gerard]

Excellent author and IMO is best work was Teachings of Don Juan and Separate Reality. Whether he made up his work or not it is irrelevant. Look at the moon not the finger pointing at it.

 

Anyway his work has its roots in shamanism so it is very real.

[dwai]

Excellent author and IMO is best work was Teachings of Don Juan and Separate Reality. Whether he made up his work or not it is irrelevant. Look at the moon not the finger pointing at it.

 

Anyway his work has its roots in shamanism so it is very real.

 

I agree...Carlos' reputation might be dubitable, but his stories and words have power.

[sifusufi]

Hello; My friends you should look and listen this video:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8575648331106173390#

 

Good Bye

 

Too bad!

I had read "The Eagles gift" at 16 years old, a gift from my aunt for my birthday.

In the end most of the humans I held up in my youth fall from their lofty places.

 

My wife and I found this

http://shamansdrum.org/Pages/ReviewsTantraHimalayas.html

about two years ago, very informative, killin' photography.

[Gerard]

Too bad!

I had read "The Eagles gift" at 16 years old, a gift from my aunt for my birthday.

In the end most of the humans I held up in my youth fall from their lofty places.

 

It's the message what you should look at, and strive to perfect yourself, not so much about what other people do. Remember humans are humans not Buddhas, and Castaneda's message is still valid.

[Apech]

...was it real? If it works it's real, that's the only test. Ignore everything else as gossip.

 

IMO

 

Cheers

 

John

 

P.S. regarding the anthropologists just think how many scientist spend their time debunking qi gong etc.

[TianXian]

mm Tantra, how much i would like to see one of these very old Classics in English. And better in Spanish if possible

 

Well Castaneda reminds me about Master Kwan Saihung book Chronicles of Tao: The Secret Life of a Taoist Master, there the pics had been taken from other books and the history it looks like own summary of books like Water Margin and the Book of Five Rings. ( or maybe have some true pieces of histories told to him, when he went to these Mountains, but made after by Kwan Saihung, in his own way.)

 

[thelerner]

I think he was a good writer and synthesizer. IMO he made up the books, but they are good stories and have good practices in them. There are many insights and things to learn from them. He opened the door for many to esoteric practices.

 

There is a dark side, he grew more cult like as he went along and it contributed to his and others deaths.

 

 

Michael

[Apech]

I think he was a good writer and synthesizer. IMO he made up the books, but they are good stories and have good practices in them. There are many insights and things to learn from them. He opened the door for many to esoteric practices.

 

There is a dark side, he grew more cult like as he went along and it contributed to his and others deaths.

 

 

Michael

 

I agree about the last phase of his 'work' and wonder how much of Tensegrity is actually coming from him or was it those around him (the cultish bit). He died of liver cancer which for most people would invoke sympathy rather than criticism - and he clearly enjoyed an active sex life! - again this might otherwise be impressive if it were not for the context.

 

We only have one death of his 'party' proven so far - and if she chose to take her life after he died - well that's up to her I suppose.

 

I watched the BBC vid linked above and found that it was ok up till the last 15 mins when it seemed to loose all balance - it even blamed him for all the hippies who took peyote. He was portrayed as somehow culpable for it all while a couple who followed him around and stole his garbage were shown as acting completely normally as was the woman (whose name I forget) who was his one time lover but now quite happy to dish the dirt. So in the end I make up my own mind and trust my intuitive feel for his books (up to and not including magical passes).

 

John

[trailmaker]

CC was certainly writing about the power...

[goldisheavy]

I agree...Carlos' reputation might be dubitable, but his stories and words have power.

 

I agree. My favorite book was "The Art of Dreaming". I think people pay too much attention to personal character.

 

It's like "Well, I like what this guy said, but does he brush his teeth every day? No?? OUTRAGE! I must dismiss everything he writes." If you find truth in some writing, does it matter who wrote it and why? If something is useful in your life, it's good.

 

So for example, in The Art of Dreaming there is an exercise described for looking at your hands during lucid dreaming to increase clarity. I tried it and it worked for me. Do I care if Castaneda lied and completely invented this? If his invented bullshit actually works, it works. I don't care if it's an invention or "real." It worked for me, and that's all that matters to me.

 

I judge things by my own standard of logic and by practical application. If it's not totally incongruent with my understanding of reality, and if it has practical application, I accept it even if the original intent of the author was to deceive.

 

Personally I don't think Castaneda lied about anything or aimed to deceive. Maybe he exaggerated some things. I don't care too much because I don't take things too seriously anyway.

 

You know who cares about credibility and personal character? It's people who are looking to become an ist or a groupie. If I was looking to become a Castanedaist, or otherwise Castaneda's groupie, I would of course care about his character. Imagine I vest myself emotionally into Castaneda. I vest heavily. I start to worship all things Castaneda, not just wisdom, but all things. I am now a Castanedaist. Suppose later it comes to light that Castaneda abused some girls or raped some buys or something like that. I would be devastated, right? I would be hurt. Because I based big part of my own identity on Castaneda, my own identity would take damage from a (hypothetical) discovery of Castaneda's character flaws.

 

But I don't throw my lot in with Castanedas. I don't want to become a Castanedaist. Should it turn out that Castaneda was a liar, it would have exactly zero impact on my own identity, since I don't base myself on external people or groups. That's why I am not an -ist of any kind. That's why I am not a Buddhist, even though I like Buddhism and I am not a Taoist even though I like Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi). I only take what makes sense and what works. Of course my own idea of what makes sense is somewhat different from what's commonly accepted, but that's a different story.

[Apech]

 

 

But I don't throw my lot in with Castanedas. I don't want to become a Castanedaist. Should it turn out that Castaneda was a liar, it would have exactly zero impact on my own identity, since I don't base myself on external people or groups. That's why I am not an -ist of any kind. That's why I am not a Buddhist, even though I like Buddhism and I am not a Taoist even though I like Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi). I only take what makes sense and what works. Of course my own idea of what makes sense is somewhat different from what's commonly accepted, but that's a different story.

 

Well said GiH, its odd that so many people apparently seeking freedom want to tie themselves up in something and then get angry when that thing seems to let them down.

 

Its also interesting how keen certain people are to ridicule and destroy the reputation of anyone who writes something powerful which might actually impact on people's lives.

[宁]

Its also interesting how keen certain people are to ridicule and destroy the reputation of anyone who writes something powerful which might actually impact on people's lives.

 

Well said... it is a way people grow their own reputation by destroying the reputation of others... prooving them 'con artists', 'liars', you name it.

I think that, apart from closest friends and family, we are don't have the right to 'help' anyone in this regard.

Everyone has his life exams to pass. We can tell them our opinnion, but if it's too enthusiastic or passionate, we mix in their karma.

Is that good, is that bad?

[Oleg Galkin]

I also read all the books of Carlos and, despite his doubtable reputation, the books are worth of reading but not worshipping. This is very powerful books and I think they should be read carefully especially by young impressionable people.

[Mark Foote]

from the LA Times- Margaret Runyan Castaneda dies at 90; ex-wife of mystic author

 

...According to Margaret's memoir, Carlos had been deceptive since the beginning of their relationship, telling her, for instance, that he was born in Brazil, the son of a professor. Legal documents would later show that he was born in Peru and was the son of a goldsmith.

 

She theorized that Carlos came up with the name Don Juan Matus because of their mutual enjoyment of Mateus wine, which, she wrote, "he jokingly referred to as his most valuable teacher."

 

She also suggested that Carlos was inspired to structure his books as a conversation with Don Juan because of a remark she once made about Plato turning Socrates into a character in his famous dialogues.

 

"His books are conversations he is holding with himself," Margaret told author Richard de Mille in "The Don Juan Papers," a collection of essays critical of Carlos' work.

[oildrops]

I once brought Castenada up to an anthropology professor and she tore him apart. I think his work has long been discredited by serious anthropologists. It is pretty awesome fiction though, and really got me to think differently at a young age.

 

I may have been a Castenadaist for a year in highschool. I was a bit hurt to find out about his bad reputation. haha Part of what I loved about A Separate Reality when I read it, is that parts of it felt like such a hoax, but it didn't matter.

 

I have a couple of his books that I have yet to read, this is a good reminder. Going to watch that video now. I didn't know about all this suicide cult business! not cool mr carlos...

[konchog uma]

im with oildrops

 

very likable fiction

 

colorful and well written but nothing to base ones personal path on and think they are "a shaman" or something silly like that

 

specks of wisdom (like the idea of the path with heart) but overall very very questionable when it comes to practical application.

 

sitting in a box for years recapitulating your life for the eagle? don't recommend it.