Kundalini

[goldisheavy]

On the void.

 

Another poster (whose name I never seem to remember and further often confuse with others because they all have that Calvin and Hobbes tiger, sorry!) mentioned some very interesting things that I can relate to this.

 

It went along the lines of "cold" = absence of heat. Not "cold" = a "thing" but a "non-thing".

 

Could "yin" be (relatively) the absence of something ("yang") ? In which case yin could very well be "void" and then I might fall over from contemplating how it is again that a "something" can be relative to the absence of itself. Never mind how it got from non-being to being...

 

And at this point I'm confused. I had Shiva figured as "pure consciousness" and "Shakti" as something else. So I think I've got it all wrong. It doesn't change the blue/violet/dark black (yup) stuff though. Just that I can't explain it well enough

 

Help a girl out?

 

It's tricky to compare ideas like yin/yang to physics and materialistic ideas in general. Yin and Yang transcend thing-ness.

 

Yin and Yang appear when One is split. So Tao gives birth to One, and One gives birth to ying and yang, if I remember correctly. Either way, the point is that neither yin nor yang have any individually established standing.

 

So if you want to convert all this into a materialistic thinking you could say, "Tao gave birth to undifferentiated whole and undifferentiated whole was then spontaneously differentiated into presence and absence." In other words, the absence of stuff is just a feeling. It's not an actual absence. It's an artifact of cognition. The same is true of the presence. The presence of stuff doesn't mean there is actual stuff there. That too is an artifact of cognition. And Tao is the root of cognition.

 

So when we say that cold is just absence of heat, that's only by convention. In practice, you sense cold just as you to heat. It's a sensation. It's an artifact of cognition. It's not presence or absence of anything. Now, in a materialistic convention we will take these equal feelings and assign to them different meanings. When we feel hot, we assign the meaning of presence to this. And when we feel cold, we assign the meaning of absence (of heat) to this. But these meanings are conventional assignments. They don't speak of the ultimate nature of cognitions. From the point of view of unbiased awareness, feeling cold is just like feeling hot. Cognitions don't have inherent meanings. We are the ones that attach meanings to them. When we do this together, it's called a convention. When we do it alone, it's called "Crazy." But it's the same thing ultimately.

 

If there was nothing beyond yin and yang, and if yin and yang were the ultimate qualities, then the materialistic interpretations of them as absence and presence would be completely correct. But they are not the ultimate qualities. Yin and yang are children of the whole. Yin and yang have no meaning without the whole, so they don't have ultimate standing but really depend on something else for their standing. That something else is ultimately Tao, in a crude way of speaking.

 

Here's one more way to understand it.

 

Long and short define each other.

 

So long is not the absence of shortness.

 

Short is not the absence of longness.

 

Long and short define each other.

 

Hot and cold define each other just like short and long do. It's only by convention that we attach more baggage to hot/cold than we do to long/short.

 

What it means for something to be hot completely depends on what it means for something to be cold. And vice versa.

 

Because neither polarity has meaning by itself, they are contingent. So you have two mutually contingent polarities. This means polarities are purely of the nature of mind. They are artifacts of awareness and nothing more. Any other meanings we attach to the polarities are just conventions.

Edited April 22, 2010 by goldisheavy

[三江源]

ShaktiMama, thankyou for those links and the information.

 

It is the same Crone that I am familiar with from Jungian psychology... interesting to have a psychological archetype represented within the energy system in this way.. is there an equivalent colour manifestation for the Wise Old Man?

 

I am reading about the void and am interested in this aspect which I havent before considered :

 

In our bodies, the 'void' element is represented by our ability to think and communicate with others. Mentally and emotionally it represents our creative nature, as well as our personal means of self-expression as we identify with and operate in the world around us.

 

so practically speaking the void is an element...

 

I experience the void as.. well...

 

 

you must learn to perceive that which you cannot understand or comprehend.

I guess I stayed in that space.. perceived it and didnt think about it , because, well.. what's to think?!

 

it voids thought, it is a place devoid of thought 'about' ... yet "Mentally and emotionally it represents our creative nature'..

 

and is "represented by our ability to think and communicate with others."

Very helpful, thankyou..

Edited April 22, 2010 by cat

[Mokona]

I read Gopi Krishna, his account sounded horrific, but then he gives examples how he could have made the process easier. It all seems like sound advice and raising Kundalini certainely sounds exciting.

 

So if I read the above correctly, Kundalini slaps all of your pyschological issues into your face and says: "Deal!"

 

or you flounder? Yikes!

[C T]

Two interesting Kundalini Yoga articles:

 

1/ Kundalini FAQ - - http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutzer/kundalini/kundalini-faq.html#top

 

2/ Kundalini and Tibetan Buddhism - - http://easternhealingarts.com/Articles/KundaliniTibet.html

 

(with grateful appreciation to the respective writers)

[Apech]

Two interesting Kundalini Yoga articles:

 

1/ Kundalini FAQ - - http://www.eecs.berk...ni-faq.html#top

 

2/ Kundalini and Tibetan Buddhism - - http://easternhealin...aliniTibet.html

 

(with grateful appreciation to the respective writers)

 

Thanks CowTao interesting reading - I'm beginning to get used to this idea of kundalini sufferers - as if its a disease

[C T]

Thanks CowTao interesting reading - I'm beginning to get used to this idea of kundalini sufferers - as if its a disease

Yes, A7 - i have had the good fortune of meeting many individuals from diverse spiritual traditions in my role as a volunteer at a good number of Buddhist retreats over the years, and have witnessed the distress shown by so-called 'unguided dabblers' of kundalini, many of whom present themselves at retreats displaying symptoms ranging from mild psychosis to full-blown schizophrenia. However, i have also met many k.practitioners who are extremely 'mature' (unsure if this is the app description?) and the majority of these have studied with the guidance of a teacher/s.

 

It would appear that K. is not some work that can be approached in a haphazard fashion, and plenty of caution is advised, and a grounded disposition seems in order. One teacher i know puts it this way, he said, " The decision to be initiated into higher spiritual practices (like Kundalini or Tantra Yoga) is like putting a snake into a hollow bamboo - its impossible to retract without abrasive consequences, so keeping to Samayas are extremely important." (samaya = precept)

[Apech]

 

 

It would appear that K. is not some work that can be approached in a haphazard fashion, and plenty of caution is advised, and a grounded disposition seems in order. One teacher i know puts it this way, he said, " The decision to be initiated into higher spiritual practices (like Kundalini or Tantra Yoga) is like putting a snake into a hollow bamboo - its impossible to retract without abrasive consequences, so keeping to Samayas are extremely important." (samaya = precept)

 

 

This sounds wise to me.

[Upfromtheashes]

Hey Shakti Mama -

What Role Does Philosophy play in regards to one who has awakened Kundalini?

[yuanqi]

Yes, A7 - i have had the good fortune of meeting many individuals from diverse spiritual traditions in my role as a volunteer at a good number of Buddhist retreats over the years, and have witnessed the distress shown by so-called 'unguided dabblers' of kundalini, many of whom present themselves at retreats displaying symptoms ranging from mild psychosis to full-blown schizophrenia. However, i have also met many k.practitioners who are extremely 'mature' (unsure if this is the app description?) and the majority of these have studied with the guidance of a teacher/s.

 

It would appear that K. is not some work that can be approached in a haphazard fashion, and plenty of caution is advised, and a grounded disposition seems in order. One teacher i know puts it this way, he said, " The decision to be initiated into higher spiritual practices (like Kundalini or Tantra Yoga) is like putting a snake into a hollow bamboo - its impossible to retract without abrasive consequences, so keeping to Samayas are extremely important." (samaya = precept)

I think that severe Kundalini problems are most often displayed in the unguided dabbler. It isnt something for dabblers and unfortunately the majority of people doing initiation, especially in the west are NOT qualified to do so. So most become what could be termed "dabbler". Granted things do arise after awakening and throughout the practice that could be considered "problems". If a person tends to have emotional or psychological problems then alot of times these are enhanced, addictions come to the surface as do alot of things.But these come about because of Kundalini purging the Nadis and it IS a purging process. After this it is no longer.

If one is initiated by a true Yogacharya/Master then not only do you have that persons protection and guidance but the Kundalini was awakened properly by that persons spiritual power and guided appropriately, this is the biggest difference b/w someone that can do it and those that only think they can do it. I have not met anyone that had it done properly that is schizo. The master/guru protects and guides you. Sounds like crap but it is the God's honest truth. People may have slight depression and struggles but this is normal regardless whether you are on a spirtual path, you can just deal with it easier if practicing in my opinion.

Sometimes you may have a healing crisis as something was dormant and is brought to the surface. These things are temporary. I see internet sites that deal with Kundalini sickness/syndrome etc etc etc and I honestly believe that if the K was awakened properly and the person practices properly then there is no need to have a site like that. The Guru/Master is who you would contact if you had an issue, not the internet and other dabblers, if one has to go to the net to find out something and get support instead of their actual master/guru then a true Guru/Master didnt do the initiation obviously, or worse yet is their is no Guru/Disciple relationship. When it comes to Kundalini this is important, you can find people doing "awakenings" for 150-500 bucks on a weekend, this is what I am talking about. There maybe several that supposedly can do the "awakening" there and you may or may not ever hear from them again, or in a few years with money made they are gone.

My Guru has only authorized ONE person to do initiations and that person has practiced for over 30 years. We are talking full days at a time he sits. Not a couple times a day (like me LOL). This is how hard it is to be able to become eligible and reach high enough in your practice to do initiations. And guess what the rate equates to about 5 US dollars, but if you dont have it and you are sincere then no problem.

 

I like the way you described it as mature. Dont know if it is a proper term or not either but when referring past life practice it would make sense.

Edited April 22, 2010 by yuanqi

[Ramon25]

I read Gopi Krishna, his account sounded horrific, but then he gives examples how he could have made the process easier. It all seems like sound advice and raising Kundalini certainely sounds exciting.

 

So if I read the above correctly, Kundalini slaps all of your pyschological issues into your face and says: "Deal!"

 

or you flounder? Yikes!

 

 

Exactly what happens, deal or flounder!

 

I wasnt even dabbling in kundalini arts pursay. Just unrelated things and then bam! If I would not have met santi, I think my life would have gone in another direction totally.

 

I am actually writing a book about kundalini, how to awaken it, then intergrate and my perspective on spirituality in general. Point being there are many ways to activate kundalini. A grounded approach is best.

[ShaktiMama]

ShaktiMama, thankyou for those links and the information.

 

It is the same Crone that I am familiar with from Jungian psychology... interesting to have a psychological archetype represented within the energy system in this way.. is there an equivalent colour manifestation for the Wise Old Man?

 

I am reading about the void and am interested in this aspect which I havent before considered :

 

 

 

so practically speaking the void is an element...

 

I experience the void as.. well...

 

 

I guess I stayed in that space.. perceived it and didnt think about it , because, well.. what's to think?!

 

it voids thought, it is a place devoid of thought 'about' ... yet "Mentally and emotionally it represents our creative nature'..

 

and is "represented by our ability to think and communicate with others."

Very helpful, thankyou..

 

 

Crone/Wise Old Man are similiar. Crone energy is also similiar with Kali energy. I do not know if there is an equivalent for the Wise Old Man. I don't know if we can polarize the concept just into archetypes.

 

I am just sharing literature about the Void. Exploring it for yourself will bring a deeper texture, a richness to understanding what the Void is.

 

[ShaktiMama]

Hey Shakti Mama -

What Role Does Philosophy play in regards to one who has awakened Kundalini?

 

Not sure what you mean but one certainly can have their personal philosophy radically altered by a life long relationship with Kundalini.

 

In my experience of working and knowing hundreds of people in all stages of kundalini development, a fair number of them are eventually drawn to Advaita Vedanta.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

 

The other philosophy is Kashmir Shaivism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_shaivism

 

Those who are Christians or of other traditions are usually drawn into a new appreciation and deeper understanding of their spiritual heritage.

 

I don't run into very many Daoists who are working with k.

 

S

[ShaktiMama]

I think that severe Kundalini problems are most often displayed in the unguided dabbler. It isnt something for dabblers and unfortunately the majority of people doing initiation, especially in the west are NOT qualified to do so. So most become what could be termed "dabbler". Granted things do arise after awakening and throughout the practice that could be considered "problems". If a person tends to have emotional or psychological problems then alot of times these are enhanced, addictions come to the surface as do alot of things.But these come about because of Kundalini purging the Nadis and it IS a purging process. After this it is no longer.

If one is initiated by a true Yogacharya/Master then not only do you have that persons protection and guidance but the Kundalini was awakened properly by that persons spiritual power and guided appropriately, this is the biggest difference b/w someone that can do it and those that only think they can do it. I have not met anyone that had it done properly that is schizo. The master/guru protects and guides you. Sounds like crap but it is the God's honest truth. People may have slight depression and struggles but this is normal regardless whether you are on a spirtual path, you can just deal with it easier if practicing in my opinion.

Sometimes you may have a healing crisis as something was dormant and is brought to the surface. These things are temporary. I see internet sites that deal with Kundalini sickness/syndrome etc etc etc and I honestly believe that if the K was awakened properly and the person practices properly then there is no need to have a site like that. The Guru/Master is who you would contact if you had an issue, not the internet and other dabblers, if one has to go to the net to find out something and get support instead of their actual master/guru then a true Guru/Master didnt do the initiation obviously, or worse yet is their is no Guru/Disciple relationship. When it comes to Kundalini this is important, you can find people doing "awakenings" for 150-500 bucks on a weekend, this is what I am talking about. There maybe several that supposedly can do the "awakening" there and you may or may not ever hear from them again, or in a few years with money made they are gone.

My Guru has only authorized ONE person to do initiations and that person has practiced for over 30 years. We are talking full days at a time he sits. Not a couple times a day (like me LOL). This is how hard it is to be able to become eligible and reach high enough in your practice to do initiations. And guess what the rate equates to about 5 US dollars, but if you dont have it and you are sincere then no problem.

 

I like the way you described it as mature. Dont know if it is a proper term or not either but when referring past life practice it would make sense.

 

Dabbling is not a good idea where kundalini is concerned. I tell people that having your kundalini awakened is like moving from driving a tricycle to driving a Lamborghini. One must know more than how to sit in a seat, turn the key, and work the accelerator pedal and the brake.

 

I think it is important to recognize that other cultures who are not from the Asian continent have their own stories and practices around how best to awaken kundalini.

 

For example, Dr. Bradford Keeney, a noted psychologist and a recognized shaman by the Bushmen of the Khalari Desert says, "there are no kundalini accidents in the bush". Why is this so? Because the Bushmen spiritual tradition develops kundalini or what they call the Num in ecstatic shamanic group experiences. When the energy becomes too intense or problematic, they know how to harmonize energy flow. They know how to handle the Shadow. They do this in a family/tribal group setting.

 

Westerners almost always practice or dabble in kundalini as a solo practitioner. Generally, that would be an accident waiting to happen. Whether you choose a leader/guru/teacher to be with or work within a close group, either way the process will be easier.

 

I have one senior student in Utah who uses the Bushmen model for kundalini awakening for his students. Overall, they are a joyful bunch with not much in the way of energy deviations. He has studied in Africa with the Bushmen and is an apprentice to Bradford Keeney.

 

 

If you want to read more about how kundalini appears in other cultures I suggest you read his book, Bushman Shaman where he discusses the kundalini phenomenon in other continents like South America or in the Caribbean.

 

In my almost 20 years in this process as a student and teacher you will find many poster children for "kundalini gone bad". They like to get together and share their war stories about their solitary path on kundalini development. Also bad news makes good press. People want to hear the bad things about kundalini. People like to stop and stare at car accidents and discuss what happened. The process of kundalini awakening is no different.

 

Those who have a successful relationship with kundalini we don't hear much about. There are whole families that have active kundalini but to them it is as normal as having a particular hair color.

 

I think we do have a skewed perception of the dangers of kundalini because the bad things that happen by people who don't know what they are doing-the dabblers-makes such dramatic car crash story.

 

And yanqui is right. Once the purging begins we as kundalites experience all past problems...from old injuries to addictions to relationship issues...it's all passing through on the way out.

 

The piece of info about mentally ill people who are schizophrenic from kundalini is very high has been re-evaluated as much, much lower and retracted by the person who put that piece of info out there...Dr. Gabriel Cousins who used to run a spiritual emergency clinic for kundalites in San Francisco with Dr. Lee Sannella. Dr. Sannella wrote the book The Kundalini Experience: Psychosis or Transcendence which is now considered classic among kundalini research.

 

Schizophrenia does have a genetic component and it most often makes it's appearance in young adults. If you can make it into your mid 30s without becoming schizophrenic it is likely you never will. Some kundalini teachers out there have also posited a connection between k and bipolar disorder. Bipolar is also with a strong genetic component and results from a deficiency of an element in the body.

 

Going crazy in western culture is taboo. In more primitive cultures who value shamanism for example it is valued as an important process. I point this out because for the temporary time a person has the crazies from K, instead of supporting these people in a communal environment we often medicate and isolate them which makes the chi derangement worse.

 

As a nurse, I am all for using psychotropic meds but used appropriately and conservatively in spritual emergencies like kundalini awakenings.

 

Much of the chi derangements or kundalini syndrome symptoms are easily soothed if not eradicated entirely with the practice of the Secret Smile and the Microcosmic Orbit and learning to keep your tongue up behind the teeth at the roof of the mouth.

 

I hope this helps a little in understanding this process.

 

S

[Sunya]

Very interesting post Shaktimama, especially about how crazies are treated in Western culture and how that only makes things worse. I remember in Path Notes, Glenn wrote that "most religious writings are poppycock" since they don't mention epilepsy or schizophrenia or other fun characteristics of being 'touched by God' and not being able to bear the voltage."

 

If Kundalini is truly an intelligent force, and you say "She know what what's doing", how does that explain those that end up in a living hell for the rest of their lives because things go wrong? Does "she" truly know what she's doing?

[ShaktiMama]

Very interesting post Shaktimama, especially about how crazies are treated in Western culture and how that only makes things worse. I remember in Path Notes, Glenn wrote that "most religious writings are poppycock" since they don't mention epilepsy or schizophrenia or other fun characteristics of being 'touched by God' and not being able to bear the voltage."

 

If Kundalini is truly an intelligent force, and you say "She know what what's doing", how does that explain those that end up in a living hell for the rest of their lives because things go wrong? Does "she" truly know what she's doing?

 

 

Learning to surrender to Shakti is an art and a science. Those how have problems must learn how to relax and go with the flow. If you stand in front of a tsunami, you are gonna have problems. Respect the wave.

 

Resistance is futile.

 

 

s

[C T]

Those how have problems must learn how to relax and go with the flow.

 

s

Hello Susan

 

I was just wondering to myself if that would be good advice to offer someone who wakes up consistently during the night with a very pronounced feeling as though there are a million centipedes crawling all over his body. (Am citing a real example here btw - a kundalini initiate who surrendered his all, including leaving his wife and 2 kids, and donating all his material wealth to his wonderful 'guru', who then tells him his karma was to blame for the backlash of blockages strewn all over his path, but do not worry, these soon will fade - just be patient and remain steadfast in the power of shakti (and in the meantime he feels like he is slowly being 'eaten alive' by the critters).

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks.

[Birch]

It's tricky to compare ideas like yin/yang to physics and materialistic ideas in general. Yin and Yang transcend thing-ness.

 

Yin and Yang appear when One is split. So Tao gives birth to One, and One gives birth to ying and yang, if I remember correctly. Either way, the point is that neither yin nor yang have any individually established standing.

 

So if you want to convert all this into a materialistic thinking you could say, "Tao gave birth to undifferentiated whole and undifferentiated whole was then spontaneously differentiated into presence and absence." In other words, the absence of stuff is just a feeling. It's not an actual absence. It's an artifact of cognition. The same is true of the presence. The presence of stuff doesn't mean there is actual stuff there. That too is an artifact of cognition. And Tao is the root of cognition.

 

So when we say that cold is just absence of heat, that's only by convention. In practice, you sense cold just as you to heat. It's a sensation. It's an artifact of cognition. It's not presence or absence of anything. Now, in a materialistic convention we will take these equal feelings and assign to them different meanings. When we feel hot, we assign the meaning of presence to this. And when we feel cold, we assign the meaning of absence (of heat) to this. But these meanings are conventional assignments. They don't speak of the ultimate nature of cognitions. From the point of view of unbiased awareness, feeling cold is just like feeling hot. Cognitions don't have inherent meanings. We are the ones that attach meanings to them. When we do this together, it's called a convention. When we do it alone, it's called "Crazy." But it's the same thing ultimately.

 

If there was nothing beyond yin and yang, and if yin and yang were the ultimate qualities, then the materialistic interpretations of them as absence and presence would be completely correct. But they are not the ultimate qualities. Yin and yang are children of the whole. Yin and yang have no meaning without the whole, so they don't have ultimate standing but really depend on something else for their standing. That something else is ultimately Tao, in a crude way of speaking.

 

Here's one more way to understand it.

 

Long and short define each other.

 

So long is not the absence of shortness.

 

Short is not the absence of longness.

 

Long and short define each other.

 

Hot and cold define each other just like short and long do. It's only by convention that we attach more baggage to hot/cold than we do to long/short.

 

What it means for something to be hot completely depends on what it means for something to be cold. And vice versa.

 

Because neither polarity has meaning by itself, they are contingent. So you have two mutually contingent polarities. This means polarities are purely of the nature of mind. They are artifacts of awareness and nothing more. Any other meanings we attach to the polarities are just conventions.

 

 

Thank you GIH! And John! And Shaktimama and Cat and all on this thread. Very good stuff!

[Eviander]

Another thing...I have perceived a reptilian female entity(s)that looked inter dimensional many times on a few different entheogens. One of the times it (or they) carried with them profound fear and the thoughts of damnation and burning in hell...

 

Also on my latest shamanic quest I perceived the reptilian inter dimensional looking female and it at first brought fear of hell..fire..ect..then slowly turned into a sexual feeling and mixed emotions before the perception went away. (it was green during the less lucid visions...then it was green and turned purple in my latest and most lucid vision)

 

I have seen these female inter-dimensional looking reptilians on a few occasions on certain entheogens(psilocybin and salvia to be precise)..and was wondering what you taobums think..if I am actually for a limited duration in contact with an inter-dimensional being(s) ( I thought it was a demon the first few times I saw them or it). Because these thoughts keep coming up (you are going to hell..ect hell hell) and for a certain period of time I thought that these demons might be attacking me or be evil..

 

Now I am a bit more well versed in snake symbology and think it might be my minds projection of kundalini shakti (if others have experience it also could actually be an inter-dimensional being I don't know) but I did not know that kundalini could actually be symbolized by visions of inter-dimensional looking female snake beings..if anyone has information or sources on predecessors who have had the same visions or just has a well educated opinion on this strange phenomena I would like input..

[ShaktiMama]

Hello Susan

 

I was just wondering to myself if that would be good advice to offer someone who wakes up consistently during the night with a very pronounced feeling as though there are a million centipedes crawling all over his body. (Am citing a real example here btw - a kundalini initiate who surrendered his all, including leaving his wife and 2 kids, and donating all his material wealth to his wonderful 'guru', who then tells him his karma was to blame for the backlash of blockages strewn all over his path, but do not worry, these soon will fade - just be patient and remain steadfast in the power of shakti (and in the meantime he feels like he is slowly being 'eaten alive' by the critters).

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

Thanks.

his guru should have told him that is normal. That is the body "rewiring" to handle the higher voltage/power of the kundalini energy. Feeling as if ants with very hot little feet crawling all over our bodies is how I and some of my friends have experienced it.

 

This is not an unusual phenomenon. Even in medical qigong it is considered an auspicious sign because it shows that energy cultivation practices are working.

 

It's a process. Nothing makes that phenomenon go faster other than working on clearing the meridians and continue cultivating energy. Basic chi gong like standing stake can help. There are some things we just have to endure and get through the other side.

 

Like walking thru a muddy field by ourselves. It can be down right unpleasant. we can turn around and go back or continue on. No one is there to carry you.

 

Karma is to blame for we create karma out of our good and bad choices but the answer shows a serious lack of compassion and knowledge. One can do practices to speed up clearing of karma, like chod for example.

 

Being a leader, authority, guru, etc. is a serious responsibility. Some students, because of their upbringing, their psychological makeup, will give up everything to gain something from the guru. Those who are willing to give everything often finds someone who is willing to take everything.

 

I hope my answer brings clarity.

[Apech]

his guru should have told him that is normal. That is the body "rewiring" to handle the higher voltage/power of the kundalini energy. Feeling as if ants with very hot little feet crawling all over our bodies is how I and some of my friends have experienced it.

 

This is not an unusual phenomenon. Even in medical qigong it is considered an auspicious sign because it shows that energy cultivation practices are working.

 

..etc

 

 

Hi,

 

I'm actually beginning to get a handle on this kundalini discussion and relate it to my own experiences. I've got one observation and one point of clarification.

 

1) (the observation) I think what perhaps has not been pointed out is that awakening energy does not just produce internal or subjective 'stuff' but actually life direction changes. If your karma is 'challenging' to use the modern euphemism for 'bad' then your life gets difficult in ways it was not before. Its as if you have moved out of the safe zone and all sorts of situations emerge - people react to you in new ways which are not always positive. You can see where I am going with this. But I would say that this is all about learning and not about disasters - so you do have to learn to keep the faith ... because in a way you asked for it.

 

2 ) (the question) the energy, shakti knows what it is doing, so actually the stuff is generated from us not letting go and not wanting to change ... the energy is not doing weird things to us, we are doing weird things to ourselves through resisting. That is the question ... yes/no?

 

Cheers

 

John

[Birch]

My opinion only;-)

 

I suggest it gets easier if you "drop yourself" on a daily basis. Not the "new" one, for that one is really quite important! Precious even!

 

I mean the other one. I think (here we go again, but I'll do it anyway, my 5E analysis suggests no biggie ) that it's also dubious to start attempting to "overtrain" the new one in particular directions based solely on the "other" one's perceived shortcomings or desires (psi-training to get the girl/boy? Anyone?) Another reason that "self-development" gurus are making large wads of cash these days...not to mention PUA;-) but I'm almost OT.

 

What I mean is if you feel a definite pull towards (or away from) some discipline (or place, or person, or food, or whatever) or practice then it's worth looking at what that pull is. Is it oldself tugging on your (own/old?) strings? Mom's desire for you? Dad's fear of success? Why?

 

I think good basics (back to foundational practices again, man these are great!) that will stand anyone in good stead regardless of what is thrown at you as you do this - so at the very least you won't be slinging it at yourself;-)

 

Also, what the other folks said;-)

 

I love that we're talking about it. It's weird but not THAT weird really.

[ShaktiMama]

Hi,

 

I'm actually beginning to get a handle on this kundalini discussion and relate it to my own experiences. I've got one observation and one point of clarification.

 

1) (the observation) I think what perhaps has not been pointed out is that awakening energy does not just produce internal or subjective 'stuff' but actually life direction changes. If your karma is 'challenging' to use the modern euphemism for 'bad' then your life gets difficult in ways it was not before. Its as if you have moved out of the safe zone and all sorts of situations emerge - people react to you in new ways which are not always positive. You can see where I am going with this. But I would say that this is all about learning and not about disasters - so you do have to learn to keep the faith ... because in a way you asked for it.

 

2 ) (the question) the energy, shakti knows what it is doing, so actually the stuff is generated from us not letting go and not wanting to change ... the energy is not doing weird things to us, we are doing weird things to ourselves through resisting. That is the question ... yes/no?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

 

 

EXACTLY John.

 

I have not said in this thread But I have said other times other threads: if your life does not change, and sometimes that change is radical, then whatever is happening to you is not kundalini. Kundalini changes your life. It is the second birth. You will walk, talk, smell, look, think different. Who you were before will transform, transmute, change into another creature.

 

Resistant to change, resistant to the energy flow IS probably the biggest issue I see in people who are on the k path.

 

Resistance to What Is (movement of Shakti or cosmic energy through the body) causes suffering.

 

wooo hooo

 

people who don't resist move quickly in the process. People who are flexible, intelligent, and possess a child like nature of wonder and curiosity do great with the awakening process. People who are not afraid of being loved will do well too.

 

It can be enjoyable, it can be fun. Suffering is optional.

s

[Ramon25]

EXACTLY John.

 

I have not said in this thread But I have said other times other threads: if your life does not change, and sometimes that change is radical, then whatever is happening to you is not kundalini. Kundalini changes your life. It is the second birth. You will walk, talk, smell, look, think different. Who you were before will transform, transmute, change into another creature.

 

Resistant to change, resistant to the energy flow IS probably the biggest issue I see in people who are on the k path.

 

Resistance to What Is (movement of Shakti or cosmic energy through the body) causes suffering.

 

wooo hooo

 

people who don't resist move quickly in the process. People who are flexible, intelligent, and possess a child like nature of wonder and curiosity do great with the awakening process. People who are not afraid of being loved will do well too.

 

It can be enjoyable, it can be fun. Suffering is optional.

s

 

 

Very interesting, I have had conversations with my wife, telling her how kundalini can be compared to being born again. Its like coming into the world crying, learning how to walk again, how to orient yourself in the world, how to relate to others. Coming in and grasping knowledge to help live. everythng does change, your life does change radically, as it has for me. I agree if your life did not change it is not kundalini. I do have a child like nature of wonder and curosity and I believe it has helped alot.

[Mokona]

Another thing...I have perceived a reptilian female entity(s)that looked inter dimensional many times on a few different entheogens. One of the times it (or they) carried with them profound fear and the thoughts of damnation and burning in hell...

 

Also on my latest shamanic quest I perceived the reptilian inter dimensional looking female and it at first brought fear of hell..fire..ect..then slowly turned into a sexual feeling and mixed emotions before the perception went away. (it was green during the less lucid visions...then it was green and turned purple in my latest and most lucid vision)

 

I have seen these female inter-dimensional looking reptilians on a few occasions on certain entheogens(psilocybin and salvia to be precise)..and was wondering what you taobums think..if I am actually for a limited duration in contact with an inter-dimensional being(s) ( I thought it was a demon the first few times I saw them or it). Because these thoughts keep coming up (you are going to hell..ect hell hell) and for a certain period of time I thought that these demons might be attacking me or be evil..

 

Now I am a bit more well versed in snake symbology and think it might be my minds projection of kundalini shakti (if others have experience it also could actually be an inter-dimensional being I don't know) but I did not know that kundalini could actually be symbolized by visions of inter-dimensional looking female snake beings..if anyone has information or sources on predecessors who have had the same visions or just has a well educated opinion on this strange phenomena I would like input..

 

Awesome dream, I've had purple girls show up in my dreams when I was younger. Dreams are nuts.

[Apech]

EXACTLY John.

 

I have not said in this thread But I have said other times other threads: if your life does not change, and sometimes that change is radical, then whatever is happening to you is not kundalini. Kundalini changes your life. It is the second birth. You will walk, talk, smell, look, think different. Who you were before will transform, transmute, change into another creature.

 

Resistant to change, resistant to the energy flow IS probably the biggest issue I see in people who are on the k path.

 

Resistance to What Is (movement of Shakti or cosmic energy through the body) causes suffering.

 

wooo hooo

 

people who don't resist move quickly in the process. People who are flexible, intelligent, and possess a child like nature of wonder and curiosity do great with the awakening process. People who are not afraid of being loved will do well too.

 

It can be enjoyable, it can be fun. Suffering is optional.

s

 

Thanks.

 

What I had a problem relating to on this thread was that for me the subjective (if I can call them that) experiences like visions, energy movements, sounds, lights, weird body changes - I was/am quite at home with. I didn't think I was going mad and it didn't freak me out at all. I am not saying this to praise myself but just that is how I am built. What really freaked me out were the sudden and precipitous changes in my life, in my external world. I had great difficulty with the day to day world and couldn't understand it, I didn't know how it worked. Now looking back I would say that this was a major imbalance between inner/outer in me. The experience of raising energy made this worse and not better. I find it hard to describe this strange alienation I felt but it is as if you are suddenly precipitated into a foreign country where everyone else is speaking a different language. It took me a long, long time to sort this out and it wasn't very pleasant at all.

 

I just thought I would make this point because I don't suppose that I am alone in this.

 

John