Kundalini

[C T]

his guru should have told him that is normal. That is the body "rewiring" to handle the higher voltage/power of the kundalini energy. Feeling as if ants with very hot little feet crawling all over our bodies is how I and some of my friends have experienced it.

 

This is not an unusual phenomenon. Even in medical qigong it is considered an auspicious sign because it shows that energy cultivation practices are working.

 

It's a process. Nothing makes that phenomenon go faster other than working on clearing the meridians and continue cultivating energy. Basic chi gong like standing stake can help. There are some things we just have to endure and get through the other side.

 

Like walking thru a muddy field by ourselves. It can be down right unpleasant. we can turn around and go back or continue on. No one is there to carry you.

 

Karma is to blame for we create karma out of our good and bad choices but the answer shows a serious lack of compassion and knowledge. One can do practices to speed up clearing of karma, like chod for example.

 

Being a leader, authority, guru, etc. is a serious responsibility. Some students, because of their upbringing, their psychological makeup, will give up everything to gain something from the guru. Those who are willing to give everything often finds someone who is willing to take everything.

 

I hope my answer brings clarity.

Thanks for the effort Susan. Much appreciated. Will forward this info when i next visit this person. Hope it will resonate in him.

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks for the effort Susan. Much appreciated. Will forward this info when i next visit this person. Hope it will resonate in him.

 

you are welcome. you can give him my email address if you like. [email protected]

 

sometimes, just knowing that someone understands what is happening to you and that you are not alone in this takes an enormous amount of stress and burden off of the person.

 

s

[markern]

Hi Shaktimama!

 

Are there anyway one can slow things down while continuing to practice? I cam a cross a guy on a forum that has attained first path through vipassana some time after getting kundalini. His problem is that although he feels he needs to ground and do some other things too balance himself out, anything he does seems to accelerate a process of "purification", or whatever you want to call it, that in it self is a huge problem. So although orbit, standing, secret smile etc. could be good in many ways, he feels he needs something that actually slows the process. Is that at all possible? He even stopped all practices for a month but it did not really slow down much.

[ShaktiMama]

Thanks.

 

What I had a problem relating to on this thread was that for me the subjective (if I can call them that) experiences like visions, energy movements, sounds, lights, weird body changes - I was/am quite at home with. I didn't think I was going mad and it didn't freak me out at all. I am not saying this to praise myself but just that is how I am built. What really freaked me out were the sudden and precipitous changes in my life, in my external world. I had great difficulty with the day to day world and couldn't understand it, I didn't know how it worked. Now looking back I would say that this was a major imbalance between inner/outer in me. The experience of raising energy made this worse and not better. I find it hard to describe this strange alienation I felt but it is as if you are suddenly precipitated into a foreign country where everyone else is speaking a different language. It took me a long, long time to sort this out and it wasn't very pleasant at all.

 

I just thought I would make this point because I don't suppose that I am alone in this.

 

John

 

you are right on with this john. I couldnt have said this better.

 

I had weird, dramatic things like you described but I was absolutely fascinated by the whole process. I was alone too. No teacher, guru, group to really help me. I felt like i was living in fantasy adventure story for grown ups.

 

The insights you share are not uncommon for a kundalite. Feeling like a Stranger in a Strange Land.

Sometimes it feels like the Peanuts characters listening to adults talk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUyLwXhqlWU

 

When I feel this most acutely is when talking to people who are convinced their Kundalini is awake and they have the superior knowledge because some ancient text said this. It is the difference between book knowledge and actual experience. My experience is often not in alingment with whatever book or sacred literature they are referring too. What I have found is my experience is often some thing that is talked about in oral traditions not written down unless in very occult language. Once kundalini is in gear occult language can become very clear to the kundalite.

 

For example, yesterday a student was telling myself and Vajrasattva that he was dreaming/visioning about killing a crocodile with Santi. Is it commonly known that crocodiles are a representation of the 2nd chakra? If one looks closely at a 2nd chakra yantra there is a tiny crocodile represented. The second chakra is water element too. In context of the conversation we know we are working on 2nd chakra development and this is a good sign, not to be feared, not a nightmare.

 

Yes, this can be an unpleasant experience to sort through, the alienation. What makes it a whole lot bearable is being in a community with people who understand what you are talking about. The alienation experience is common. I have yet to meet a kundalite who doesn't go through this experience in some degree.

 

thanks for sharing this,

s

[Upfromtheashes]

Not sure what you mean but one certainly can have their personal philosophy radically altered by a life long relationship with Kundalini.

 

In my experience of working and knowing hundreds of people in all stages of kundalini development, a fair number of them are eventually drawn to Advaita Vedanta.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

 

The other philosophy is Kashmir Shaivism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_shaivism

 

Those who are Christians or of other traditions are usually drawn into a new appreciation and deeper understanding of their spiritual heritage.

 

I don't run into very many Daoists who are working with k.

 

S

 

Hey ShaktiMama

Thanks for the Links

In regards to Philosophy I was curious as to if it takes a complete backseat to wisdom in relation to someone who is highly advanced - For example one may have a basic philosophy of kindness and generosity - Yet one who is operating from the void? or seeing or a different place that SEES more may take actions that may seem immoral or fly in the face of moral convention-( I mean say your teacher took an action like slapping you but it was just what you needed to free a bond - ok that is a small example - ( Crazy Wisdom maybe ) Or Hatsumi talks about the mind and eyes of god -

I guess what I am getting at is does one meld more with a higher power most of the time and let that guide one which would take a helluva lot of courage if what one was doing was against accepted social norms - or does one still rely primarily on a good moral code of conduct which is practical -

[3bob]

I'm no expert but I'd add that Kundalini Shakti is not really "female energy"; although an aspect of kundalini energy flow through the {ida nadi} is often related to what is termed the female side, while flow through the {pingala nadi} is related to the male aspect side. Further, when these male and female aspects balance then this universal (non-gender) kundalini energy enters and flows into the {sushumna nadi} which goes up the center of the spine, whereas the ida and pingala nadis and flows are normally related to the snake type shapes that curve around or near the spine.

 

I've read of some of the problems people have had, with some of those related to flows of energy not being balanced in the ida and pingala nadis, thus one of those nadis can become highly over-loaded with drastic effects resulting from incomplete and or other types of unguided and unwise attempts to arouse energy. Also I don't believe anyone here has mentioned chakras below the root (or the hell realms) but arousing energies or forms of prana and having some of it flow there because of incomplete and unguided efforts is no cake walk to say the least!

 

It is very easy to find all sorts of talks about kundalini on the web, and to me many of those posts are fantastical like while barely, or sometimes not even touching on the precepts of "yama and niyama" as related to moral and ethical wiring and safe grounding of Being, which some of us apparently see as slow, boring and maybe even skip-able! Next time you need electrical wiring done in your home hire an unqualified person to do it, which is about the same as having an unqualified or even partly qualified person teaching you kundalini. (btw I'm not qualified, and I know it but I do hope this post was of some useful information)

 

Om

Edited April 23, 2010 by 3bob

[ShaktiMama]

Hi Shaktimama!

 

Are there anyway one can slow things down while continuing to practice? I cam a cross a guy on a forum that has attained first path through vipassana some time after getting kundalini. His problem is that although he feels he needs to ground and do some other things too balance himself out, anything he does seems to accelerate a process of "purification", or whatever you want to call it, that in it self is a huge problem. So although orbit, standing, secret smile etc. could be good in many ways, he feels he needs something that actually slows the process. Is that at all possible? He even stopped all practices for a month but it did not really slow down much.

 

This is a good example of why people should not dabble. Not saying he is in this case either. Once the kundalini is awake, it's permanent. You no longer own your body. You are no longer in control. It will do what it needs to do to complete it's process whether you agree or not. It is the resistance to this psycho-spiritual-physical evolutionary drive that causes such problems.

 

I remember a story in the Bible where the King of Persia, was worshipped by his army as a god. They felt he could do no wrong. He took his throne and sat on it along the shoreline. He put his hands up and commanded the tides not to come in. Well, the tides came in.

 

I bring up this story because to tell Kundalini to stop is about as effective as telling the tides to stop. It's like a ten year old yelling at their parents, "i did not ask to be born!" Can a baby tell its' body to stop developing? Kundalini is a force of Nature.

 

The process can be slowed or maybe modified somewhat.

 

What one of the simplest things you can do is ask that the process be slower. I have done that. My life was havoc for awhile. I was blowing up computers at work. I was having these strong, bizarre kriyas in the middle of the day. Since I had no yoga, chi gung, or any internal cultivation practice, no teacher, no group, I was desperate for relief. In my desperation I spoke to kundalini and begged to have these manifestations stop. I asked for a bargain...let my days be quieter so I can work, pay rent, go grocery shopping, etc. and I would totally surrender to the flow at night.

 

My wish was granted and I was able to function better during the day.

 

The secret smile and other techniques will make the process go faster. We don't refer to this process as the Lightening Path for no reason.

 

This hyper process he is going through is a temporary phase. Once the k is finished with whatever task it is doing right now, the ramping up period will calm down. I observe the development is cyclical in the early stages. Periods of acute ramping up (a yang period) followed by periods of calmness (yin). Over time the periods between the cycling will lengthen moving from a day, to weeks, to months to years till an equilibrium is reached. I tend to cycle with the seasons now. Ramping up in late winter through spring. Slowing down as the winter approaches. The drama is not like it was in the early years.

 

It helps to change perspective. what he is going through means he is blessed. People struggle for years and years to attain what is happening to him now. It is always humorous to me when people come to me with these struggles when it is these struggles which bring them closer to the absorption of themselves within All That Is and recreates themselves as a natural human being who acts in spontaneous concert with the Dao and not as a mechanical, reactive lump of human protoplasm who inhabits a 3D meat suit.

 

He may have to seek out another adept who can work with him one on one to manage flow. Santi is better at that than I am due to the fact he is highly classically trained in IMA and energy cultivation. My expertise comes from being a survivor who thrived in her experience with k process without almost no guidance at all. I had minimal external training except that which comes from being a mystic who totally surrenders to the process in the confidence that it is divinely directed. My training is almost all directly intuitive and in downloads from Shakti. It mirrors much of what classically trained people are taught in the higher esoteric arts.

 

Eating meat and other heavier foods is one effective way of slowing down the process. Being a vegan or vegetarian almost guarantees the process will be intense. Why? Because those diets burn up/digest quickly and the body turns on itself to feed the fires of K. The heavier food gives more substance for the k to develop itself. This is one of those understandings that flows in the face of classical k teaching.

 

There are other things but it helps to talk to an individual because the process is so individual. Telling one to stop meditating and doing yoga may not be what another individual needs.

 

hope that brings clarity,

s

[markern]

THanks a lot for a very informative reply Shaktimamma!

 

Would "physicalising" the energy also help slow things a bit? I have read many people advice rather hard physical labour, weights and stuff because the energy gets pulled into the muscles (and bones?) and gets more physical, sort of, and that is not such a pain in the ass. I have sometimes myself done bodyscanning sessions were I choose to focus on the very physical muscular sensations to the exclusion of sensations of energy and I have found that energy then tends to disappear to a large extent. I am guessing I am moving from the energetic body to the physical body and find comfort in that.

[ShaktiMama]

Bob,

 

There are kundalites who would pleasantly disagree with you that kundalini Shakti is not female energy. To be more specific Shakti is a representation of the Divine Feminine which with the Divine Masculine gives a more anthropomorphic picture of the qualities of That Which Is.

 

Pathological energy manifestations do come from blockages in both main energy channels like the Ida and Pingala and all the minor channels and chakras.

 

There are an infinite number of chakras which I learned and experienced in my communion with Shakti. To some of us kundalites we have seen the Maha Chakra which all other chakras are but a reflection of it's attributes.

 

Hopefully, the electrician one hires has experience and does not qualify themselves as an expert because they read ehow on the internet.

 

s

 

I'm no expert but I'd add that Kundalini Shakti is not really "female energy"; although an aspect of kundalini energy flow through the {ida nadi} is often related to what is termed the female side, while flow through the {pingala nadi} is related to the male aspect side. Further, when these male and female aspects balance then this universal (non-gender) kundalini energy enters and flows into the {sushumna nadi} which goes up the center of the spine, whereas the ida and pingala nadis and flows are normally related to the snake type shapes that curve around or near the spine.

 

I've read of some of the problems people have had, with some of those related to flows of energy not being balanced in the ida and pingala nadis, thus one of those nadis can become highly over-loaded with drastic effects resulting from incomplete and or other types of unguided and unwise attempts to arouse energy. Also I don't believe anyone here has mentioned chakras below the root (or the hell realms) but arousing energies or forms of prana and having some of it flow there because of incomplete and unguided efforts is no cake walk to say the least!

 

It is very easy to find all sorts of talks about kundalini on the web, and to me many of those posts are fantastical like while barely, or sometimes not even touching on the precepts of "yama and niyama" as related to moral and ethical wiring and safe grounding of Being, which some of us apparently see as slow, boring and maybe even skip-able! Next time you need electrical wiring done in your home hire an unqualified person to do it, which is about the same as having an unqualified or even partly qualified person teaching you kundalini. (btw I'm not qualified, and I know it but I do hope this post was of some useful information)

 

Om

[ShaktiMama]

THanks a lot for a very informative reply Shaktimamma!

 

Would "physicalising" the energy also help slow things a bit? I have read many people advice rather hard physical labour, weights and stuff because the energy gets pulled into the muscles (and bones?) and gets more physical, sort of, and that is not such a pain in the ass. I have sometimes myself done bodyscanning sessions were I choose to focus on the very physical muscular sensations to the exclusion of sensations of energy and I have found that energy then tends to disappear to a large extent. I am guessing I am moving from the energetic body to the physical body and find comfort in that.

 

yes...that would work...

s

[ShaktiMama]

Hey ShaktiMama

Thanks for the Links

In regards to Philosophy I was curious as to if it takes a complete backseat to wisdom in relation to someone who is highly advanced - For example one may have a basic philosophy of kindness and generosity - Yet one who is operating from the void? or seeing or a different place that SEES more may take actions that may seem immoral or fly in the face of moral convention-( I mean say your teacher took an action like slapping you but it was just what you needed to free a bond - ok that is a small example - ( Crazy Wisdom maybe ) Or Hatsumi talks about the mind and eyes of god -

I guess what I am getting at is does one meld more with a higher power most of the time and let that guide one which would take a helluva lot of courage if what one was doing was against accepted social norms - or does one still rely primarily on a good moral code of conduct which is practical -

 

Yes, one becomes "amoral" the higher one climbs up the ladder.One loses attachment to cultural mores. That is why training in compassion and virtues is important. One determines to act on ethical values rather than moral values.

 

Hatsumi would say that all people need a religious path for this reason. It's in Path Notes.

 

Yes it takes a helluva lot of courage and a disregard for self preservation. When one acts from that point it's very offensive to the public and be prepared to spend your time walking into buzz saws.

 

s

[Edward M]

Susan, hi!

 

You said once k is started it cannot be stopped. I had the experience i told you about when i had an energy drink and my vision suddenly went inside and i saw a green vine with stars on and they all closed up one by one.

 

Once the energy had descended i sensed entitys around me and would get lashes on my hands which were very painfull and left visible marks.

 

Since then not much has really happened in terms of k at all.

 

do you think i had a reaction to something in the drink which locked everything up. i had a dream the night before where i was told not to drink it! doh

 

as far as you know can medication for bi-polar/psychosis stop k working?

 

sorry im not being very clear with questions

 

thanks

Ed

[Upfromtheashes]

Yes, one becomes "amoral" the higher one climbs up the ladder.One loses attachment to cultural mores. That is why training in compassion and virtues is important. One determines to act on ethical values rather than moral values.

 

Hatsumi would say that all people need a religious path for this reason. It's in Path Notes.

 

Yes it takes a helluva lot of courage and a disregard for self preservation. When one acts from that point it's very offensive to the public and be prepared to spend your time walking into buzz saws.

 

s

 

Thank You

Do you know anything about Couatl And Unicorns?

 

To Follow The Horse

With The Golden Horn

The Heart Must Be Pure

Like A Baby Just Born

[3bob]

Bob,

 

There are kundalites who would pleasantly disagree with you that kundalini Shakti is not female energy. To be more specific Shakti is a representation of the Divine Feminine which with the Divine Masculine gives a more anthropomorphic picture of the qualities of That Which Is.

 

Pathological energy manifestations do come from blockages in both main energy channels like the Ida and Pingala and all the minor channels and chakras.

 

There are an infinite number of chakras which I learned and experienced in my communion with Shakti. To some of us kundalites we have seen the Maha Chakra which all other chakras are but a reflection of it's attributes.

 

Hopefully, the electrician one hires has experience and does not qualify themselves as an expert because they read ehow on the internet.

 

s

 

Hi Susan,

 

I'm not all that sure what a "kundalite" is in your definition? Anyway I have studied teaching materials related to kundalini (and met some of the people) from ongoing "Hindu" spiritual/mystical lineages that are thousands of years in standing. Thus with that as part of my background I see some problems and incongruity when Abrahamic related traditions and or people co-opt parts of originally Hindu teachings and its specific terms that are not really part of or used in the dualistic, Abrahamic traditions - many of which have also been throughly diced and or spliced in many other ways.

 

To me the Divinity or Divne energy is not male or female per-se, although I would agree that various Beings (or certain manifestations) would have leanings or natures that tend towards male or female aspects even though they are connected to or essentially of the central, non-gender or beyond gender core of Divinity.

 

To me the Divne is Oneness in Unity, not just or only of male and female aspects. Btw, in Hinduism Siva is often shown as a male type being, but then again there is another well known representation of Siva as being of both male and female... see jpg below.

 

Good day.

 

Edited April 23, 2010 by 3bob

[ShaktiMama]

Thank You

Do you know anything about Couatl And Unicorns?

 

To Follow The Horse

With The Golden Horn

The Heart Must Be Pure

Like A Baby Just Born

 

cant say that i do.

 

[ShaktiMama]

Susan, hi!

 

You said once k is started it cannot be stopped. I had the experience i told you about when i had an energy drink and my vision suddenly went inside and i saw a green vine with stars on and they all closed up one by one.

 

Once the energy had descended i sensed entitys around me and would get lashes on my hands which were very painfull and left visible marks.

 

Since then not much has really happened in terms of k at all.

 

do you think i had a reaction to something in the drink which locked everything up. i had a dream the night before where i was told not to drink it! doh

 

as far as you know can medication for bi-polar/psychosis stop k working?

 

sorry im not being very clear with questions

 

thanks

Ed

 

drugs can dampen down the k from working.

s

[Trunk]

btw, it just struck me that oysters (obviously laden with minerals) are the yin to ox tail's yang. Also organic chicken liver is extraordinarily healthy, nourishing, and mostly tasteless if you prepare it right.

 

 

Also, as previously mentioned, adding Ch. herbs to soups.

 

All these approaches are *cheap*, too.

(vs. buying tonic herbs encapsulated)

[ShaktiMama]

Hi Susan,

 

I'm not all that sure what a "kundalite" is in your definition? Anyway I have studied teaching materials related to kundalini (and met some of the people) from ongoing "Hindu" spiritual/mystical lineages that are thousands of years in standing. Thus I see some problems and incongruity in Abrahamic related traditions and people co-opting parts of those teachings and terms that are not really part of or used in the dualistic, Abrahamic traditions - many of which have also been throughly diced and sliced in many other ways.

 

To me the Divinity or Divne energy is not male or female per-se, although I would agree that various Beings would have leanings or natures that tend towards male or female aspects even though they are connected to or essentially of the central, non-gender core of Divinity.

 

To me the Divne is One in Unity, not just or only male or female aspects. Btw. in Hinduism Siva is often shown as a male type being, but then again there is another well known representation of Siva as being of both male and female... see jpg below.

 

Good day.

 

 

kundalite is a term some of us with awakened kundalini refer to ourselves. it's short hand.

 

if we sit in the center of the domain of kundalini...where ever that might be...and look out. One can see different spokes radiating out as ways different people's traditions try to explain the phenomenon of kundalini to others and to themselves. There will be over lap and blurring of boundaries because people vary in their experiences of life and culture. Is there one tradition that accurately explains the phenomenon of kundalini? Based on my experience and the experiences/feedback of other kundalites there is not. There are some that get closer in some individual's opinion but it is subjective over all who really is the closest. Who is to say the the Bushman experience is less valid than the Hindu or of less value than the non sectarian practitioner? It is nice to have a variety of maps around.

 

This doesnt discount the explanations it just shows there are different ways to explain. It doesnt change the nature of what is being explained just illustrates the limitations of the explanation. It doesnt say that the experiential path of kundalites is in error.

 

You are looking at the traditions and the incongruities between them. One does choose a tradition that appeals to what ever reasoning and judgment process we have, yes? I sit at the Source of the traditions and see the seamless thread that connects them all. I see/experience no incongruity under the words. Co-opting to me is natural. Natural to me because exactness around the domain/structure of Spirit is no longer important but that is just me.

 

There is an attraction to creating form and structure people have around That Which Is. I find that trying to do that is like trying to nail jello to the wall. It won't happen but in doing so it gives people comfort in some way. Thinking we know something about Nothing is better than realizing we know nothing about Nothing perhaps?

 

So we can say these are the rules or the laws in describing a form or expression of That Which Is because as a species we don't like living without boundaries. But the structure that we create can feel like a cage to the kundalite for we have experienced or are experiencing that which people try to explain with their knowledge without direct experience. Knowledge is only as good as it's accumulation. We know far less about what we don't know than what we do know. We still try to explain the Unexplainable rather than just sit with the Unexplainable and let It be.

 

The Ardhnarishwara is another representation of the Divine Androgyne. The Androgyne is not an unfamiliar concept in Western Alchemy.

 

Spirit is Androgynous. No gender. I get that. But in my living in Duality, I choose to work with the Divine Feminine/Divine Masculine Archetypes. It serves me to do so.

 

Shiva without Shakti is nothing. Shiva is the platform upon which Shakti dances. Shiva and Shakti are not different sides of a coin. They are on the same side so hence we see the representation of Ardhnarishwara.

 

The insistence on exactness of terms is undertandable. It helps provide structure to the unknowable. Someday there while come a time on the kundalite's path this structure is not necessary anymore. This cause considerable consternation to the non kundalite because it looks like we don't play by the rules.

I would say that is true. Liberation is an interesting thing.

[ShaktiMama]

btw, it just struck me that oysters (obviously laden with minerals) are the yin to ox tail's yang. Also organic chicken liver is extraordinarily healthy, nourishing, and mostly tasteless if you prepare it right.

 

 

Also, as previously mentioned, adding Ch. herbs to soups.

 

All these approaches are *cheap*, too.

(vs. buying tonic herbs encapsulated)

 

I am a sucker for tobiko. I would consider flying fish eggs fairly yin but I could be wrong.

[suninmyeyes]

Thanks everyone for your posts.Very intersting and insightful thread,with some really good info.

 

By the way that tobiko has nice colour.Prefer an orange though.

[Ramon25]

I find organic pastured butter to be very nourishing.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Ramon25

[3bob]

 

kundalite is a term some of us with awakened kundalini refer to ourselves. it's short hand.

 

if we sit in the center of the domain of kundalini...where ever that might be...and look out. One can see different spokes radiating out as ways different people's traditions try to explain the phenomenon of kundalini to others and to themselves. There will be over lap and blurring of boundaries because people vary in their experiences of life and culture. Is there one tradition that accurately explains the phenomenon of kundalini? Based on my experience and the experiences/feedback of other kundalites there is not. There are some that get closer in some individual's opinion but it is subjective over all who really is the closest. Who is to say the the Bushman experience is less valid than the Hindu or of less value than the non sectarian practitioner? It is nice to have a variety of maps around.

 

This doesnt discount the explanations it just shows there are different ways to explain. It doesnt change the nature of what is being explained just illustrates the limitations of the explanation. It doesnt say that the experiential path of kundalites is in error.

 

You are looking at the traditions and the incongruities between them. One does choose a tradition that appeals to what ever reasoning and judgment process we have, yes? I sit at the Source of the traditions and see the seamless thread that connects them all. I see/experience no incongruity under the words. Co-opting to me is natural. Natural to me because exactness around the domain/structure of Spirit is no longer important but that is just me.

 

There is an attraction to creating form and structure people have around That Which Is. I find that trying to do that is like trying to nail jello to the wall. It won't happen but in doing so it gives people comfort in some way. Thinking we know something about Nothing is better than realizing we know nothing about Nothing perhaps?

 

So we can say these are the rules or the laws in describing a form or expression of That Which Is because as a species we don't like living without boundaries. But the structure that we create can feel like a cage to the kundalite for we have experienced or are experiencing that which people try to explain with their knowledge without direct experience. Knowledge is only as good as it's accumulation. We know far less about what we don't know than what we do know. We still try to explain the Unexplainable rather than just sit with the Unexplainable and let It be.

 

The Ardhnarishwara is another representation of the Divine Androgyne. The Androgyne is not an unfamiliar concept in Western Alchemy.

 

Spirit is Androgynous. No gender. I get that. But in my living in Duality, I choose to work with the Divine Feminine/Divine Masculine Archetypes. It serves me to do so.

 

Shiva without Shakti is nothing. Shiva is the platform upon which Shakti dances. Shiva and Shakti are not different sides of a coin. They are on the same side so hence we see the representation of Ardhnarishwara.

 

The insistence on exactness of terms is undertandable. It helps provide structure to the unknowable. Someday there while come a time on the kundalite's path this structure is not necessary anymore. This cause considerable consternation to the non kundalite because it looks like we don't play by the rules.

I would say that is true. Liberation is an interesting thing.

 

I'm familiar with such reasoning and understand the drift of what you are saying but again... I do not always see such correlations as always lining up as you imply; and at times I've more or less been a correlation addict along lines such as these! I submit and or agree that we may have bits and pieces (so to speak) and sometimes we make correct correaltions among or across traditions from our experiential framework but not always or in all instances. For instance considering your words above you have reached a long ways into the "Tattvas" but you have not included "Parasiva" beyond the tattvas of Siva-Sakti manifestations (which is sometimes called "Nataraja") and which has been attained by Self-Realizied masters - which btw you have said yourself you are not, and me niether - thus exactly where you are sitting as alluded to above is not clear from your own statements, regardless of whatever mine may touch on.

 

Om

[ShaktiMama]

I'm familiar with such reasoning and understand the drift of what you are saying but again... I do not always see such correlations as always lining up as you imply; and at times I've more or less been a correlation addict along lines such as these! I submit and or agree that we may have bits and pieces (so to speak) and sometimes we make correct correaltions among or across traditions from our experiential framework but not always or in all instances. For instance considering your words above you have reached a long ways into the "Tattvas" but you have not included "Parasiva" beyond the tattvas of Siva-Sakti manifestations (which is sometimes called "Nataraja") and which has been attained by Self-Realizied masters - which btw you have said yourself you are not, and me niether - thus exactly where you are sitting as alluded to above is not clear from your own statements, regardless of whatever mine may touch on.

 

Om

 

Parasiva is the realization of the God Self. Self realization. Direct knowing of God. Sometimes called nirvikalpa samadhi, This happens when kundalini pierces the crown is one description. So there is the experience of the non experience of That Which Is. But to describe That which cannot be named denigrates/corrupts understanding That Which Is. The only way we know that this happened or is happening is because there are changes, permanent changes in one's perspective. I would also add permanent changes in one's body, spirit, mind, and emotions.

 

To live in Parasiva is impractical for a human who lives in the world as a practicing human being.

 

Yes, what you call Parasiva has happened to me more than once. Does this make me self realized? I like to think not because I don't live in that state all that time. I do live in a state of That Which Is is present with me, near to me in awareness, all the time. Where or when I focus my consciousness will enlarge or diminish my experience of that state of being.

 

Again, precision in terms does become irrelevant to kundalites. What I know and some of my fellow kundalites know is that attachment to precision of terms is more helpful to those who want to understand what it's like to dwell in the House of the Divine. Again, the terms help us know what the rules are but the rules are like training wheels. They will eventually not be necessary when one understands and has practices which naturally arise that exhibits evidences that shows itself as living in concert with the That Which Is. Life becomes a spontaneous expression rather than a rule based or fact checking practice that depends on structure that was created by a mind. The irony comes when that life will often naturally reflect the spirit found in the listing and defining of virtues and ethical behavior. When kundalini is in play, when The Way is freely expressed without resistance from the human organism, we will naturally become responsible citizens of this planet. It is our nature then to be naturally virtuous. I am not there in that place.

 

It is of less importance to me in my daily life whether I getting off on the 7th floor or the 40th floor on the elevator of Divine Consciousness. It is all magnificent in it's manifestations.

 

A little cup of the Divine Water or swimming in the Oceans of Mercy, it is all deeply transforming. If i lived in a state of nirvikalpa samadhi I would have to live in isolation, have attendants look after me for I would not be able to look after my bodily needs due to being absorbed in 24 hour meditation on the Absolute. I have some who disagree with me but it is really hard to drive a car in nirvikalpa samadhi. I suppose with practice I could but there are more fruitful ways to spend my time than learning to drive in this state.

 

I am a practical person. I choose to live with the people and make my home on the Earth. I think of the pursuit of and living in samadhi as extremely selfish. I would rather teach people a way that will bring them to their own experience of samadhi so they can make their own decisions, their own self determnation.

 

So as far as my implied correlations go they are limited but I hope they help people in reaching clarity. They are signposts not the place and I am not attached to the signposts. They are as malleable as our perceptions of reality.

 

No, I am not a master although I am on the path to self mastery. It's been a difficult one for me. I am more of the elder sister in a big family. By virtue of living longer in the kundalini process I have acquired more knowledge and techniques, life experiences and a more mature persepctive. That doesn't mean I am better than anyone else in the family. It just means I have been at it longer by virtue of being alive longer after the second birth known as kundalini awakening. I think kundalini awakening makes one more of an egalitarian in world view rather than a specialist in one spiritual tradition.

 

So, one can describe, create structure, follow blue prints and say, "Look, I followed the directions, I have the building materials and I was able to create a person who operates in a predictable way." We can disagree and criticize and analyze the building plans but what is missing is this person is not enlivened by Kundalini Shakti. In comparison, people power the body/mind/spirit with gasoline or with rubbing two sticks together. What they don't know is when the kundalini is activated now they are empowered with the kind of energy that creates stars. If your body is 30 years old or 17 or 65 it takes awhile to learn how to live with kind of energy when it is activated. Kundalini has to work against and transform all those unhelpful belief structures and traumas that are crystallized in the body. Kundalini's job is to help you reach your highest potential.

 

These are my thoughts based on my personal life experiences in living with kundalini. If people get benefit that's wonderful. If people don't get benefit that's a good thing too. One less thing to be concerned about in their journey through life.

[S-Curve]

This is a good example of why people should not dabble. Not saying he is in this case either. Once the kundalini is awake, it's permanent. You no longer own your body. You are no longer in control. It will do what it needs to do to complete it's process whether you agree or not. It is the resistance to this psycho-spiritual-physical evolutionary drive that causes such problems.

 

 

 

Hi everyone, i was lurking on the discussion (only recently found the forum) and thought i'd put in my 2 cents to the discussion Markern brought up. Its even possible that Markern is talking about me!

 

I have recently realized an injury due to K. Possibly, it was an injury that was there for many years, but has only recently been revealed by the Kundalini process. The type of injury that is hidden because it has been compensated for by slight anatomical imbalances, for example.

 

This injury is preventing from doing even light asanas, qigong, and to a certain extent any type of meditation simply because the pain is so pronounced in meditation. Normally i am quite physically active in addition to my practice, but at the moment i am unable to do anything but walking.

 

I am in a "crisis" mode, fyi. I am trying to keep the current K process from overwhelming me (I have a lot of experience with this), but at the same time I want to promote slow and steady growth, because i feel like it is necessary for me to get through this crisis in a timely manner.

 

It is an interesting dilemma, and although i have encountered aspects of it in the past, i am finding it very difficult to manage my K progress effectively because none of the normal "tools" are working at the moment.

 

Keep up the great discussion!

[C T]

Hi everyone, i was lurking on the discussion (only recently found the forum) and thought i'd put in my 2 cents to the discussion Markern brought up. Its even possible that Markern is talking about me!

 

I have recently realized an injury due to K. Possibly, it was an injury that was there for many years, but has only recently been revealed by the Kundalini process. The type of injury that is hidden because it has been compensated for by slight anatomical imbalances, for example.

 

This injury is preventing from doing even light asanas, qigong, and to a certain extent any type of meditation simply because the pain is so pronounced in meditation. Normally i am quite physically active in addition to my practice, but at the moment i am unable to do anything but walking.

 

I am in a "crisis" mode, fyi. I am trying to keep the current K process from overwhelming me (I have a lot of experience with this), but at the same time I want to promote slow and steady growth, because i feel like it is necessary for me to get through this crisis in a timely manner.

 

It is an interesting dilemma, and although i have encountered aspects of it in the past, i am finding it very difficult to manage my K progress effectively because none of the normal "tools" are working at the moment.

 

Keep up the great discussion!

Hello S Curve,

 

Sorry to hear about your current experience, which i hope you will be able to transcend in due course. You appear to have a fair grip on things happening in and around you, which i can see as a great way to be.

 

It would be interesting to learn more of your association with kundalini, for eg, how you came to be initiated and thru which mode, whether it was directly transmitted person-to-person or by some other means? There seem to be insufficient awareness surrounding the potential dangers and pitfalls of a laissez-faire approach towards invoking the serpent (K), hence the request.

 

Many whom i have met seem to disregard the fact that submersion in K requires enormous amounts of devotion, dedication and Discipline, so it would be wonderful if you will share some of your 'past notes' with us. Unfortunately there are many who seem to promote the activation of K as if its the gateway to paradise, and then these promoters also say that the nature of K is so vast, so malleable, therefore structure and system ought to be of secondary concern. Just do what one feels is right, they say... which i find hard to buy, maybe becos i am old school, or have been cultured differently. What are your thoughts in general?

 

Thanks SC.