Collection of facts

[Ya Mu]

Has this been posted before? I don't have great results with the search engine on this board so if it has never mind. Takes about 2 hrs to wade through but divided into 13 videos.

Lucas video

Here is full text presentation.

Earth changes - ancient writings - government behavior - brown dwarf (planet x) material

Lots of interesting facts where the presenter attempted to not give personal opinion.

Bet he staid up late a whole lot to put this together.

[Aetherous]

Wow, I am at the part about Denver International Airport. That is crazy!

[Ya Mu]

Wow, I am at the part about Denver International Airport. That is crazy!

Yeah, I think so too. When that airport first was built, I went there and felt the negativity. Told my wife there is something drastically wrong.

[UTI]

Talk about dropping a bomb on my mind

 

Nothing to do but run to the hills when the devil comes flying across the sky...

[markern]

Annah Lindh the swedish minister that was killed was killed by a serbian swedish man that had been a psyciatric patient and had previously stabbed his own father with a knife and threeatened and attacked several other people. He was seen killing Annah Lindh by FIFTEEN WITNESSES in the a SHOPPING MAL and he was caught on video by security cameras fleeing. By putting her murder in there and by starting what is written by writting about her resistance to the iraq war and other opositional statemnts and then following it with writing she was murdered it is implied she was killed because of this by this whole grand conspiracy. The CIA or whatnot. Clearly she was not. THe guy who wrote all this have either conciosuly omitted these facts to suport his theories or he is delusional enough to have pushed it out of his mind which, in such a case, is very very well done. Not a very trustworthy source or theorist I would say.

 

Also the crystal skull he writes about is a well known fraud. I saw an hour long documentary about it. Had he cared about truth rather than his theories he would have easily found this out. I wonder what grade I would have gotten if I had done this bad research for a paper in middle school?

Edited April 19, 2010 by markern

[Ya Mu]

Annah Lindh the swedish minister that was killed was killed by a serbian swedish man that had been a psyciatric patient and had previously stabbed his own father with a knife and threeatened and attacked several other people. He was seen killing Annah Lindh by FIFTEEN WITNESSES in the a SHOPPING MAL and he was caught on video by security cameras fleeing. By putting her murder in there and by starting what is written by writting about her resistance to the iraq war and other opositional statemnts and then following it with writing she was murdered it is implied she was killed because of this by this whole grand conspiracy. The CIA or whatnot. Clearly she was not. THe guy who wrote all this have either conciosuly omitted these facts to suport his theories or he is delusional enough to have pushed it out of his mind which, in such a case, is very very well done. Not a very trustworthy source or theorist I would say.

 

Also the crystal skull he writes about is a well known fraud. I saw an hour long documentary about it. Had he cared about truth rather than his theories he would have easily found this out. I wonder what grade I would have gotten if I had done this bad research for a paper in middle school?

 

It seems to me that he did try to not put personal opinions in his research - but of course we are all swayed by personal opinion and I am sure he was as well.

 

Now, just because you disagree with 2 of the many things brought up (and your statements actually prove nothing but reflect your opinion - which I grant is just as valid as his opinion), it seems you are going to dismiss all of the things brought up. Much of what he researched is absolute fact per best knowledge available and/or reported resources. IMO the pics alone are worth reading his research. I am certainly not arguing either way, but the old saying "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" should apply here.

 

Everyone should draw their own conclusions.

[hyok]

It's interesting that the cave drawings all depict the spiral yet the spiral witnessed recently was only visible in that region of the world and only became known to others because of the internet. Perhaps it will reappear in the future again?

 

Fascinating though. I stayed up till 4am last night reading/watching all of it. lol.

Edited April 19, 2010 by hyok

[UTI]

He DID say he had no idea if there was a connection to the anna lindh murder.

 

Another inaccuracy is the mention of the fuel lines being overly powerful at Denver. All airports pump fuel at that rate. It's needed since the fuel-depots are usually very far away, and there are several airplanes being fuelled at once.

 

I suppose the spiral thing will be repeated as it comes closer, if it is a phenomenon caused by it.

 

It really bugged me out... but I guess it's an opportunity to embrace the fragile nature of life, and the fact that death can come at any time.

[Sunya]

What a colossal waste of time spent on that website... bunch of data thrown together and viewed through a paranoid lens. This is the problem with the information age. Non-experts claim expertise and go crazy when they think they've uncovered something *huge* when it was just misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

 

I'll trust the experts on this one. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/1210/norway-spiral-a-rocket-scientist-explains-the-mystery

 

As for the drawings, if you want to see something you will.

[Aetherous]

Agreed, Mikaelz.

 

I looked more into the Denver International Airport mural, and it doesn't seem so bad. The horse is really ugly though.

[markern]

He did not say that he did not know the Anna Lind murder was connected or not in what he wrote. I have only read what was written not seen the movie so although he might have said that there, in his writing he did not and implied as strongly as possible that it was. By the way her statements are no more critical of the Bush government etc. than a huge amount of key european politicians. Plenty of them were more powerfully placed.

 

The dinosaur stuff from Mexico is also a hoax. HTe guy that found them actually paid some poor locals money for each such dinosour they could find for him. He ended up with 32 000 . I will post the links another day as I have to dig them up again and can`t be bothered today.

 

Have a look at this basic overview of the New World Order conspiracies:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29

 

You can probably divide them into about ten main groups that totally contradict each other. All of those again have around ten sub groups which also contradict each other. All of them are absolutely certain they have EVIDENCE that the "powers to be" or "they" consist of such and such and want this or that. They all of course use sources and references and critical thinking up to the highest academic standards . Kinda funny seeing new agers taking over conspiracy theories that have traditionally been reserved for the extreme right such as the federal exchange nonsense.

 

Has anyone been in Berlin? Look at the picture of the tower with the cross in the ninth row of pictures.

 

http://www.german-architecture.info/BER-032.htm

 

In the DDR they tried to eradicate religion as much as possible but still built this structure that reflects a perfect christian cross because of the sun so the result was the most prominent display of a christian cross you could get. WHat I was told when I was in Berlin was that the christian architect made it to be so and fooled the government but I will have to check that part. Anyway if it was a miraculous accident or if it was an ingenious plot by the architect this beats the swastika and penis at Denver airport hands down. And it shows that either the architect can put in such stuff for fun or it can happen by accident. Unless of course you belive that the DDR was secretly plotting to spread christianity at the same time they were working to eradicate it. Anyway why would the government or anyone other than members of a fertility cult or an architect having fun design stuff like this to look like a penis from the sky

 

Furthermore the amount they spent over budget wouldn`t scare anyone that are used to Norwegian oil platforms which has historically sometimes gone scandalously over budget. It shouldn`t really surprise anyone that has followed politics to a modest degree as going over budget to such a degree happens all the time. Other airports and public projects have also been built that failed completely at calculating the actual amount of usage either in terms of too little or too much use. Anyway, I have no problem imagining the US government building a huge civil airport in a mountain region to be used for military purposes in times of war or natural disaster. THat obviously means it would be built in ways that are not completely rational from a civil users perspective. All governments have crisis plans for how to use civil structures in the time of war and many have of course been built for dual purpose. Of course one prefers to keep the military part as secret as possible in most cases as you don`t want to give more information to your enemies then you need to. The US have been planing for invasion, nuclear war, terror and natural disaster for decades now so of course there will be plenty of secret facilities and and plenty of them secretly dual purpose. THat does not however prove or even imply they are there to welcome extraterrestrials or are there for specifically awaited phropecised comets.

 

The prophecies are kinda scary though and I am glad I read them. But the author of the site is so untrustworthy I feel a much stronger need to see them in the context they were originally written and even to verify they are not just made up then I would usually do. Plenty of what circulates around the internet and that is claimed to be by Nostrodmus is made up for fun but has fooled a lot of people. Especially after september 11 people had a lot of fun making up prophecies that gave strikingly precise predictions but are in none of his books. The author of this site probably fell for all of those hoaxes.

Edited April 20, 2010 by markern

[Ya Mu]

What a colossal waste of time spent on that website... bunch of data thrown together and viewed through a paranoid lens. This is the problem with the information age. Non-experts claim expertise and go crazy when they think they've uncovered something *huge* when it was just misinterpretation/misunderstanding.

 

I'll trust the experts on this one. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/1210/norway-spiral-a-rocket-scientist-explains-the-mystery

 

As for the drawings, if you want to see something you will.

"Experts" of the christian science monitor??? Almost busted a gut on that one

What do you feel when you go to the Denver airport?

 

Agreed, Mikaelz.

 

I looked more into the Denver International Airport mural, and it doesn't seem so bad. The horse is really ugly though.

What do you feel when you go to the denver airport? To me, the murals and everything else there feels oh so wrong.

 

Talk about "through the lens", it seems to me the desire to not believe something is as potent as the desire to believe something. This is the reason I posted this - to see which lens folks were looking through.

My suggestion is to go with what you feel instead of the intellectual "lens".

[markern]

"Experts" of the christian science monitor??? Almost busted a gut on that one

What do you feel when you go to the Denver airport?

 

 

What do you feel when you go to the denver airport? To me, the murals and everything else there feels oh so wrong.

 

Talk about "through the lens", it seems to me the desire to not believe something is as potent as the desire to believe something. This is the reason I posted this - to see which lens folks were looking through.

My suggestion is to go with what you feel instead of the intellectual "lens".

 

When people go with what they feel instead of the intellectual lens what we get is this crap:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29

 

Which includes a bunch of not only irrational but dangerous belief systems.

 

I am a strong beliver there are are situations were feelings are better to go by then intellect, the book Blink has interesting perspectives on that, but with regards to whether or not there is a secret conspiracy that is well aware that armagedon is approaching going by what you feel is a horrible idea. And what exactly would the something feels horribly wrong point to. That there is also a secret military base? THat it is part of a conspiracy?

 

"Talk about "through the lens", it seems to me the desire to not believe something is as potent as the desire to believe something. "

 

Sure, I agree that is often the case. But in this instance!!!??? The level of intellectual dishonesty and delusion at that site is incredible and if you cared to check up what has been pointed out to you would see that instantly. Or do you just "feel" that Anna Lind was murdered by the NWO and that the ridiculous 32 000 dinosaur artifacts are real so you do not need to relate to facts?

Edited April 20, 2010 by markern

[Aetherous]

I feel the mural is not a big deal.

 

The way it was presented in the video was very misleading.

[hyok]

I think this guy is on to something. It's not exact and the presentation isn't polished and pretty for information consumers and their crusty crew of ego-maniacal peer-reviewing nerd O' lanterns, but intuitively speaking, I say he is on to something. Great deluges aren't uncommon in ancient historical texts, couple all of this with the convergence of super-cycles and it makes a lot of sense in a very simple way.

Edited April 20, 2010 by hyok

[Ya Mu]

When people go with what they feel instead of the intellectual lens what we get is this crap:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_%28conspiracy_theory%29

 

Which includes a bunch of not only irrational but dangerous belief systems.

 

I am a strong beliver there are are situations were feelings are better to go by then intellect, the book Blink has interesting perspectives on that, but with regards to whether or not there is a secret conspiracy that is well aware that armagedon is approaching going by what you feel is a horrible idea. And what exactly would the something feels horribly wrong point to. That there is also a secret military base? THat it is part of a conspiracy?

 

"Talk about "through the lens", it seems to me the desire to not believe something is as potent as the desire to believe something. "

 

Sure, I agree that is often the case. But in this instance!!!??? The level of intellectual dishonesty and delusion at that site is incredible and if you cared to check up what has been pointed out to you would see that instantly. Or do you just "feel" that Anna Lind was murdered by the NWO and that the ridiculous 32 000 dinosaur artifacts are real so you do not need to relate to facts?

The brain and intellectual masterbation is the illusion. When I say "what you feel" I do not mean emotional - and agree that would be "crap" - but what you feel is happening through wu wei. In other words tuning into the "beyond brain".

Of course the guy that posted all that is a young man and his beliefs shaped what he posted.

 

"Or do you just "feel" that Anna Lind was murdered by the NWO and that the ridiculous 32 000 dinosaur artifacts are real so you do not need to relate to facts?"

 

I feel nothing of the sort - again - you are focusing on parts that have no meaning instead of looking at everything - I personally know nothing whatsoever about Anna Lind and could care less about that and am wondering why you are focusing on this aspect.

It is within the sphere of science - in fact many scientists believe that it is so - that dinosaurs and many other species were killed off by instant climate change. It seems obvious to me but NOW I could care less. What I do care about is what I feel happening through walking in the wu wei at each instant.

 

A big change IS happening and anyone tuned in can "feel" it. I am not arguing anything whatsoever concerning what that guy posted that I linked to (with the exception of denver airport does not feel right- I try to avoid it) - I found it interesting. I stated quite clearly that IMO everyone should draw there own conclusions. My personal conclusions are a bit different and involve 2 worlds.

 

Anyone that hasn't "seen" that there have been many civilizations on this planet simply hasn't bothered to do so.

 

I feel the mural is not a big deal.

 

The way it was presented in the video was very misleading.

 

I meant what do you feel at the airport? Sure he put a slant on it; still is weird as heck - but, when you are there, what do you feel (not emotional feel)?

[Ya Mu]

I think this guy is on to something. It's not exact and the presentation isn't polished and pretty for information consumers and their crusty crew of ego-maniacal peer-reviewing nerd O' lanterns, but intuitively speaking, I say he is on to something. Great deluges aren't uncommon in ancient historical texts, couple all of this with the convergence of super-cycles and it makes a lot of sense in a very simple way.

Yes to non-polished. My understanding is he created it just for his friends and it kinda snowballed.

But yeah - IMO there is something happening.

[hyok]

The website doesn't seem to exist anymore. CREEPY! lol.

[Sunya]

Agreed, Mikaelz.

 

I looked more into the Denver International Airport mural, and it doesn't seem so bad. The horse is really ugly though.

 

I drove past it recently when I was in CO, and yeah its really ugly! The eyes glow red too, LOL.

 

"Experts" of the christian science monitor??? Almost busted a gut on that one

 

 

Well they had a rocket expert on there explaining what happened, it does make sense. I do admit it could very well be a cover-up. I have a degree in philosophy, if I can question that this whole world is an illusion that I can easily question whether or not such a conspiracy is possible, and it is.

 

But the question is, why would these people go through all this trouble to cover up an impending doom? Why continue to fight wars? Why not just make peace and live a good life? Why not put all the money that was spent on wars during the past 20 years and use them for research into how we can possibly stop all this from happening? It just doesn't add up. I can't accept that our leaders are that stupid.

 

What do you feel when you go to the denver airport? To me, the murals and everything else there feels oh so wrong.

 

I was there recently and didn't feel anything, but I'm not sensitive. I rather enjoyed the murals I saw and took pictures. There was one where there was a large group of people, of different ethnicities, all crowded together looking at a beautiful flower. And there are animals all over those murals. I found them beautifully expressive of a progressive ideal toward respecting nature and each other. Quite apt for Colorado since its a very progressive state.

 

All this business about feeling. Not that I doubt, but how do you know what you feel is accurate? Many people have wrong intuitions, are yours 100% accurate? Is anyones? I do think its entirely possible to feel incoming possibilities but at the same time, there has to be some skepticism involved.

Edited April 21, 2010 by mikaelz

[gendao]

Some interesting data points there, although I think they can all be interpreted in a number of ways..

 

For instance, he talks about petroglyphs "showing" people going up higher where goats go. Well, let's say that is what the ancient artists were trying to depict. Well even if that were so, why does he think they might be some ancient prophecy...and not a record of their own ancient history?

Like many peoples, the Incas had a story about a great flood that wiped out a race of wicked and unruly people. The flood myth says that during ancient times people were cruel and greedy and failed to pay proper attention to the gods. Only in the highlands of the Andes mountains were the people not given over to evil. One day two worthy shepherd brothers there noticed that their llamas were sad and acting strange. The llamas told the brothers that a great flood was coming. The brothers took their families and herds to high caves, and then rain fell for months, drowning the world below. Finally, the sun god Inti appeared again, and the warmth of his smile dried the waters. The families descended to repopulate the world. Legend says that although people now live everywhere on earth, llamas remember the flood and live only in the highlands.

Since there is no indication of time on these petroglyphs, it could be one or the other.

 

I did find the Cambodian Stegosaurus carving pretty interesting.

 

And I have been to DIA & personally taken photos of their murals! They have already been modified & "toned down" though due to all the subsequent controversy.

While the most extreme claim maintains that a massive underground facility exists below the airport where an alien race of reptilian humanoids feeds on missing children while awaiting the date of government-sponsored rapture, all of the assorted theories share a common thread: The key to decoding the truth about DIA and the sinister forces that control our reality is contained within the two Tanguma murals, "In Peace and Harmony With Nature" and "The Children of the World Dream of Peace."

 

Barkun wasn't really surprised by DIA's Freemason-to-Illuminati-to-New World Order conspiracy connection, but he was intrigued by how DIA conspiracies intersected not only with UFO and 2012 "millennialist" contingents, but also the conspiracy branches concerned with underground military bases and reptilian aliens. Left-wing radicals, fundamentalist Christians, UFO hunters, white nationalists, hippie mystics, Vietnam veterans and anti-U.N. Libertarians are all able to pick out evidence within the main body of DIA infatuation to support their competing perspectives.

 

David Icke, for example, has written twenty books in his quest to prove that the world is controlled by an elite group of reptilian aliens known as the Babylonian Brotherhood, whose ranks include George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, the Jews and Kris Kristofferson. In various writings, lectures and interviews, he has long argued that DIA is one of many home bases for the otherworldly creatures, a fact revealed in the lizard/alien-faced military figure shown in Tanguma's murals.

 

"Denver is scheduled to be the Western headquarters of the US New World Order during martial law take over," Icke wrote in his 1999 book, The Biggest Secret. "Other contacts who have been underground at the Denver Airport claim that there are large numbers of human slaves, many of them children, working there under the control of the reptilians."

 

On the other end of the conspiracy spectrum is anti-vaccination activist Dr. Len Horowitz, who believes that global viruses such as AIDS, Ebola, West Nile, tuberculosis and SARS are actually population-control plots engineered by the government. The former dentist from Florida does not speak about 2012 or reptiles - in fact, he sees Icke's Jewish alien lizards as a Masonic plot to divert observers from the true earthly enemies: remnants of the Third Reich.

 

Evangelical Christians have also found messages in the murals. In a 2003 newsletter, biblical research group Cephas Ministry included photos of the murals, along with the caution that they referred to bio-warfare, 9/11 and paganism. "They are frightening to Christians as well as American citizenry since one speaks of death to Christianity as we know it," the newsletter noted.

 

The idea that [DIA] is a temple or monument to the New World Order, it almost in some bizarre way makes sense

 

Phil Schneider turned up dead - officials determined it was a suicide, but conspiracy theorists recognized it as an assassination, and he has since become a martyr for underground-base believers. Christopher became fearful for her life and her children's safety. "And so for them, I shut up and disappeared and decided to see if somebody would take the material and let it take on a life of its own so that their focus would be somewhere else," she says.

 

the now-defunct New World Airport Commission, which orchestrated DIA's opening festivities, Ansbacher would be a prime candidate for the conspiracists' Illuminati puppet master

Well, it does make sense if there is some huge "underground" government program to build a giant facility within a major airport complex. Would make moving large amounts of things much easier logistically and opaquely. Edited April 21, 2010 by vortex

[de_paradise]

From the heaps of interesting facts and pretty biased neo-facts, I don't find myself concluding that a big asteroid is going to smack the earth this year as he does. We get 5 foreign English movie channels here, and at any given time there is nothing but ultra-violence and fear on every channel, small wonder why some people see conspiracy everywhere, when their minds get poisoned on a daily basis. (just a fact, not an opinion, lol)

 

There's this youtube video on the Denver airport, and there's this highly rated comment that says something like "why dont you yanks quit your feckin whining and do something about it" I was thinking yeah, go try sleuth down a tunnel in Denver airport, otherwise you're just giving yourselves over to negative apocalyptic fantasy.

 

Its ironic how much horror is broadcast on mainstream tv, but when its in a medium they are not used to, such as oil on canvas, people baulk. They have not yet been taught how to react, so they react fearfully. Maybe they could start a facebook group

"petition to replace the blue stallion with a pink hello kitty"

[Ya Mu]

I drove past it recently when I was in CO, and yeah its really ugly! The eyes glow red too, LOL.

 

 

 

Well they had a rocket expert on there explaining what happened, it does make sense. I do admit it could very well be a cover-up. I have a degree in philosophy, if I can question that this whole world is an illusion that I can easily question whether or not such a conspiracy is possible, and it is.

 

But the question is, why would these people go through all this trouble to cover up an impending doom? Why continue to fight wars? Why not just make peace and live a good life? Why not put all the money that was spent on wars during the past 20 years and use them for research into how we can possibly stop all this from happening? It just doesn't add up. I can't accept that our leaders are that stupid.

 

 

 

I was there recently and didn't feel anything, but I'm not sensitive. I rather enjoyed the murals I saw and took pictures. There was one where there was a large group of people, of different ethnicities, all crowded together looking at a beautiful flower. And there are animals all over those murals. I found them beautifully expressive of a progressive ideal toward respecting nature and each other. Quite apt for Colorado since its a very progressive state.

 

All this business about feeling. Not that I doubt, but how do you know what you feel is accurate? Many people have wrong intuitions, are yours 100% accurate? Is anyones? I do think its entirely possible to feel incoming possibilities but at the same time, there has to be some skepticism involved.

 

 

But the question is, why would these people go through all this trouble to cover up an impending doom? Why continue to fight wars? Why not just make peace and live a good life? Why not put all the money that was spent on wars during the past 20 years and use them for research into how we can possibly stop all this from happening? It just doesn't add up. I can't accept that our leaders are that stupid.

If this is true, then the obvious reason to me would be that there would be anarchy and the govt would lose control. After all, if everyone knew the world would end then hey, gonna get me a maximum dollar 5 year mortgage with one big balloon payment due May 2013. Why go to work? etc. The very mention of wars - and you can't believe our leaders are that stupid?

 

All this business about feeling. Not that I doubt, but how do you know what you feel is accurate? Many people have wrong intuitions, are yours 100% accurate? Is anyones? I do think its entirely possible to feel incoming possibilities but at the same time, there has to be some skepticism involved.

 

Not totally accurate because it is way too easy to caught in the mundane. But, through time&effort practice, alignment with Spirit, and knowing what different things feel like, Listening becomes easier and more accurate. I am a big skeptic; I am not skeptical of anything.

 

Some interesting data points there, although I think they can all be interpreted in a number of ways..

 

For instance, he talks about petroglyphs "showing" people going up higher where goats go. Well, let's say that is what the ancient artists were trying to depict. Well even if that were so, why does he think they might be some ancient prophecy...and not a record of their own ancient history?Since there is no indication of time on these petroglyphs, it could be one or the other.

 

I think his point was that this is a repetition of history, but yeah, could be either way.

 

... They have already been modified & "toned down" though due to all the subsequent controversy

I saw them when it first opened. Haven't kept up with it and didn't know they had been modified.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I don't believe in conspiracies. Human nature being what it is, people end up talking, nothing stays secret, unless you live in the tribal region of Waziristan. There's no way that someone wouldn't talk about stuff, especially on their deathbed or somesuch. The more people, the less likely that a 'conspiracy' will survive as a secret.

[Ya Mu]

From the heaps of interesting facts and pretty biased neo-facts, I don't find myself concluding that a big asteroid is going to smack the earth this year as he does. We get 5 foreign English movie channels here, and at any given time there is nothing but ultra-violence and fear on every channel, small wonder why some people see conspiracy everywhere, when their minds get poisoned on a daily basis. (just a fact, not an opinion, lol)

 

There's this youtube video on the Denver airport, and there's this highly rated comment that says something like "why dont you yanks quit your feckin whining and do something about it" I was thinking yeah, go try sleuth down a tunnel in Denver airport, otherwise you're just giving yourselves over to negative apocalyptic fantasy.

 

Its ironic how much horror is broadcast on mainstream tv, but when its in a medium they are not used to, such as oil on canvas, people baulk. They have not yet been taught how to react, so they react fearfully. Maybe they could start a facebook group

"petition to replace the blue stallion with a pink hello kitty"

Yeah, those dang fearful and whinin Americans. Here is an example of their paranoid and fearful mass hallucinations concerning meteors.

[Ya Mu]

I don't believe in conspiracies. Human nature being what it is, people end up talking, nothing stays secret, unless you live in the tribal region of Waziristan. There's no way that someone wouldn't talk about stuff, especially on their deathbed or somesuch. The more people, the less likely that a 'conspiracy' will survive as a secret.

Wonder where these people get this stuff