Interesting and gritty interview with a Tibetan monk

[goldisheavy]

If you are not Communist, what do you care?

 

Because I am not happy with Capitalism. As a critical thinker, I believe all things should be thought subjected to critical thinking, even if they work fine. And especially if they don't work fine.

 

Lol, that would exclude a majority of Americans here! You see, Socialists know the only way Socialism can work is if they only select the most productive members of a society and ban all the bottom feeders out.

 

This assumes that bottom-feeders only come from without.

 

You can't compare a country club with a homeless shelter, buddy!

 

Nice! You just compared Canada to a gated country club and USA to a homeless shelter.

 

You are a troll. It's obvious you don't give a damn about solving any problems or improving anything.

Edited April 28, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Sunya]

Um, newsflash. As I already pointed out:

 

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle already scientifically proved in the 20s that on the quantum level, consciousness DOES affect matter...and "xiantian matter" is essentially unknowable...because as soon as you know about it, you've already changed (collapsed) it into "houtian" matter.

 

Materialism, Marx's philosophical basis - has thus already been scientifically debunked for about 80 years now. Marx is a scientifically-proven false god.

 

 

Um... newsflash: Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is a thought-experiment that didn't prove anything, especially that consciousness effects matter. Go ask a physicist that man, he'll just laugh. Go ask any scientist what their views are. Most are hardline materialists. Are you drunk? hahah. Man this is great. I just wrote a huge paper on materialism for my philosophy class. I would've loved for materialism to have been "scientifically debunked" -- That would've made my argumentation extremely easier!

 

I'm not saying I disagree with you. I don't even believe in the distinction between consciousness and matter, but I think you have to get real about materialism. It's not connected with communism. Materialism is a view that came out once people stop believing in religion. Since communist states were the first to end religious institutions, they were the first to be materialist but the US and Europe followed suit extremely quickly. When you get rid of religion you're left with the explanations of science.. and all science gives us (so far) to explain consciousness is the brain. So most academics and scientists accept this view instead of the religious vew and thus are materialists.

Edited April 28, 2010 by mikaelz

[goldisheavy]

I've come to a conclusion that vortex is not a sincere party. He's a troll. He's just saying stuff to get us to waste our energy. It's obvious he doesn't intend to address any real criticisms or good points. He constantly attacks straw-men. The only proper response to such guy is to curse him out and leave him be.

 

If there are any people interested in a real discussion, it would be cool. But this is all that vortex cares about:

 

Anyhow, let's keep on track here & debate core tenets of "real" Marxism & Communism. Where's all the angry posters who were ferociously defending either of these ideologies? Let's hear your cases, don't be shy!

 

Maybe some people want to debate real Marxism with this guy. I don't. Just because I think Capitalism sucks major donkey balls does not mean I need to defend Communism or Marxism. Maybe some of you people have more energy/zeal than me, fine. I am pretty much done with this topic.

 

This is why USA can't move beyond partisan politics. Anything you discuss gets reduced to a binary choice. No one cares about nuances, tweaks to the system, slight improvements, etc. It's like 1/3rd of the country is still stuck in McCarthyism with all its Cold War fears.

Edited April 28, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Mal]

*Moderating*

 

Wow this thread is long, we have been getting reports on various posts (Thank you for those reports everyone) I was actually just reading one back on page 8.

 

GIH has been suspended from posting for a week. Please watch the language and personal insults.

 

btw Vortex certainly is not a Troll I personally value his post on TTB highly.

 

Thanks Mal

[innerspace_cadet]

*Moderating*

 

Wow this thread is long, we have been getting reports on various posts (Thank you for those reports everyone) I was actually just reading one back on page 8.

 

GIH has been suspended from posting for a week. Please watch the language and personal insults.

 

btw Vortex certainly is not a Troll I personally value his post on TTB highly.

 

Thanks Mal

 

I feel partly responsible for the way this thread has progressed; after all, I posted the first reply to the original post. Though I feel very strongly about Communism, I could have been less strident about what I said. I didn't anticipate that the thread would get so acrimonious.

[Mokona]

I don't like everything GIH posts, but I have been reading everything that has been posted here, on this thread becuase my knowlege of these matters is so lacking, and I've found it to be informative but beyond my level to join in discourse. I'd like to see him brought back to continue posting.

[Taomeow]

I don't like everything GIH posts, but I have been reading everything that has been posted here, on this thread becuase my knowlege of these matters is so lacking, and I've found it to be informative but beyond my level to join in discourse. I'd like to see him brought back to continue posting.

 

He's been suspended for one week, and is welcome to come back and, provided he refrains from ad hominem attacks and name-calling, is free to express any and all views, however (un)orthodox. A repeat performance of insult policy violations would result in a longer suspension, however. Let's hope it won't happen.

[Apech]

I think there is a valid conversation to be had about politics here in relation to Taoism but I found that other posters didn't seem to want to read anything that they didn't agree with already. I think GiH's suspension is regrettable but I agree that argument should not lapse into personal insult.

 

What happened in Tibet, or what is still happening in Tibet is interesting because a small and overtly religious country has been swamped by a much larger and non-religious country. The experience of individuals and how they reflect on what it all means is, I think , valuable to us all - so I am glad the OP was made. What I can't quite get my head around is how anyone can see corporate capitalism as somehow upholding Taoist virtues.

[C T]

Its a pity that GIH has been ostracized temporarily. I for one enjoy his insights and the ways his mind works. Not that he is right all the time, but thats besides the point. What i admire is his willingness to engage, which is obvious - and its clear he puts his soul into his debates most of the time, and because of this, he enables that part of him to express itself freely, which i think is wonderful, and creative, to say the least.

 

At the beginning of my participation in this forum i thought he was the most arrogant and narcissistic individual here but after engaging with him on one or two occasions, and his posts having forced me to learn about my own prejudices and to quickly put them aside, i have noticed underlying all that is a good heart, which is a common quality found in many of the Bums here, and it is from this same quality that i believe we are all the same, all connected, sharing the common goal of bringing ourselves first, and then others, to 'the other shore'.

 

I hope to see GIH back soon.

 

My humble testimony to a friend i have not 'seen', but 'felt'.

[Apech]

Its a pity that GIH has been ostracized temporarily. I for one enjoy his insights and the ways his mind works. Not that he is right all the time, but thats besides the point. What i admire is his willingness to engage, which is obvious - and its clear he puts his soul into his debates most of the time, and because of this, he enables that part of him to express itself freely, which i think is wonderful, and creative, to say the least.

 

At the beginning of my participation in this forum i thought he was the most arrogant and narcissistic individual here but after engaging with him on one or two occasions, and his posts having forced me to learn about my own prejudices and to quickly put them aside, i have noticed underlying all that is a good heart, which is a common quality found in many of the Bums here, and it is from this same quality that i believe we are all the same, all connected, sharing the common goal of bringing ourselves first, and then others, to 'the other shore'.

 

I hope to see GIH back soon.

 

My humble testimony to a friend i have not 'seen', but 'felt'.

 

Wow - Cowtao well said! I agree with everything you put. Lets start the Goldisheavy appreciation society and we can vote for an early release on good behaviour.

[RongzomFan]

I am glad, someone had the sense to ban GIH.

 

He is always wrong about the points he makes, and when I correct him he never responds

 

GIH, you have more leeway to insult people if you are RIGHT

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Why do you avoid keeping the discussion focused on a critique of Capitalism?

 

 

I don't know about Vortex, but I have already totally demolished your main argument about evil corporations controlling America. Got anything else?

 

Again, I say, let the corporations keep doing a "terrible job" as long as the majority of Americans keep their middle class lifestyles.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Travel around Asia, and see just how much food is a luxury, especially meat.

 

Tyson, Cargill, Swift....these corporations should be given the Nobel Peace Prize and the thanks of a grateful humanity.

 

 

No response GIH?

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

btw Vortex certainly is not a Troll I personally value his post on TTB highly.

 

 

Amen to that!

 

Vortex is awesome

[RongzomFan]

As a critical thinker, I believe all things should be thought subjected to critical thinking, even if they work fine.

 

There is NO way you are a critical thinker. You honestly think ALL immigrants are illegal Mexicans, and based your entire argument on this.

 

And when I corrected you...surprise surprise...no response.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[Sunya]

I am glad, someone had the sense to ban GIH.

 

He is always wrong about the points he makes, and when I correct him he never responds

 

GIH, you have more leeway to insult people if you are RIGHT

 

You're a drunk arrogant child. You haven't said anything worth reading in this read nor have you proved anything.

 

I don't know about Vortex, but I have already totally demolished your main argument about evil corporations controlling America. Got anything else?

 

Oh really? hahaha How have you demolished it? By saying that America is so wonderful because immigrants move here and because we have meat??? Great argument. Seriously man you're in college so take classes in economics, politics, philosophy, history. Talk to professors. You're seriously sheltered and deluded if you don't know/can't see the kind of society we live in.

 

Gold gave many points about how money (corporations) control politics. I gave many points about how they control the psychology of men by continually reinforcing the sense of lack and telling you everyday what you need, what you want. We are slaves to this consumerist lifestyle where we are brainwashed to need stuff and buy stuff. We are taught to be insecure. Did you miss that whole post of mine?

 

There is NO way you are a critical thinker. You honestly think ALL immigrants are illegal Mexicans, and based your entire argument on this.

 

And when I corrected you...surprise surprise...no response.

 

Gold never said all immigrants to the US were Mexicans. His own parents were immigrants to this country from the USSR. Stop being a troll.

 

---

 

I for one abhor the oligarchy's decision to ban Gold because some children got offended. What is this day care? Words get thrown around during such discussions. Be brave about it.

Edited April 28, 2010 by mikaelz

[RongzomFan]

My formal education in economics, sociology and history probably is greater than anyone else's here.

 

Also I have lived in various places in Europe and Asia.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

I gave many points about how they control the psychology of men by continually reinforcing the sense of lack and telling you everyday what you need, what you want. We are slaves to this consumerist lifestyle where we are brainwashed to need stuff and buy stuff. We are taught to be insecure. Did you miss that whole post of mine?

 

 

 

Honestly, you have REAL mental problems. This doesn't make any sense. Stop watching TV!

 

Is someone forcing you to watch TV?

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Gold gave many points about how money (corporations) control politics.

 

 

I already addressed this.

 

As long as the majority of Americans live middle class lifestyles as defined by sociology, I don't give a flying fuck who controls politics.

 

As far as I am concerned we should thank the corporations for their leadership in maintaining our middle class lifestyles.

 

The middle class lifestyles are derived from corporations.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[Sunya]

My formal education in economics, sociology and history probably is greater than anyone else's here.

 

Also I have lived in various places in Europe and Asia.

 

Honestly, you have REAL mental problems. This doesn't make any sense. Stop watching TV!

 

Is someone forcing you to watch TV?

 

Wow.... and you wonder why people ignore your posts? You're clueless man. Your formal education is in economics sociology and history (and of course its greater than everyone's here) and you don't understand what the consumerist lifestyle is?

 

Nobody is forcing me to watch TV, but our whole economy is run on a system where people are manipulated psychologically to desire buying products. The majority of Americans watch TV; this is a social commentary not an individual one.

 

How can you claim to have better understanding of sociology and economics than anyone here and not know this?

 

You don't have better education than anyone here, you just have greater arrogance. Living in Europe and Asia doesn't mean jack shit. I lived in China and India and was born in Europe. Doesn't mean anything.

Edited April 28, 2010 by mikaelz

[RongzomFan]

Since you feel "insecure", go to a psychiatrist.

 

Don't take it out on everyone here. Atleast not on me please.

 

Your personal situation is not applicable to this thread

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Some corporations should be given the Nobel Peace prize and the thanks of a grateful humanity, not the jealous scorn of left wing idiots.

 

As long as the majority of Americans live middle class lifestyles as defined by sociology, I don't give a flying fuck who controls politics, even if it is corporations.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[markern]

[RongzomFan]

don't care as long as American middle class lifestyles as defined by sociology are preserved

[markern]

 

 

As long as the majority of Americans live middle class lifestyles as defined by sociology, I don't give a flying fuck who controls politics, even if it is corporations.

 

Despite the majority living such lives this is also the case:

 

One of the most disturbing and extraordinary aspects of life in this very wealthy country is the persistence of hunger. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) reported that in 2008:

 

Of the 49.1 million people living in food insecure households (up from 36.2 million in 2007), 32.4 million are adults (14.4 percent of all adults) and 16.7 million are children (22.5 percent of all children).

17.3 million people lived in households that were considered to have "very low food security," a USDA term (previously denominated "food insecure with hunger") that means one or more people in the household were hungry over the course of the year because of the inability to afford enough food. This was up from 11.9 million in 2007 and 8.5 million in 2000.

Very low food security had been getting worse even before the recession. The number of people in this category in 2008 is more than double the number in 2000.

Black (25.7 percent) and Hispanic (26.9 percent) households experienced food insecurity at far higher rates than the national average.

 

http://www.frac.org/html/hunger_in_the_us/hunger_index.html

 

Do you not see the desperate need to improve the lives of these people? US capitalism has done little to nothing over the last 30 years to mitigate this problem. An increase in minimum wage and state welfare measures could eradicate this problem easily but you choose not to and let them suffer and wonder were their next meal is coming from.