Interesting and gritty interview with a Tibetan monk

[Sunya]

It is my conclusion that 'alwayson' is a troll. He has no interest in civil discussion; he makes ludicrous claims which he cannot back up with evidence and when proved wrong simply retreats into a corner by attacking other posters by suggesting that they "should seek medical help." He should be ignored.

 

[RongzomFan]

Maybe if you posted a study or SOMETHING, you would be taken seriously

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[markern]

Oooooo you win!

 

Little or no indication of reduced food intake

 

Ok we agree.

 

And little in this context means :39,66% of food insecure people cut size of meal or skipped meal because they did not have enough money for food and 37,2% ate less than they felt they should. Which is rather A LOT in my opinion.

 

Anyway have a look at those with VERY LITTLE FOOD SECURITY and try to imagine how it is to live like that.

[Sunya]

The whole of American society is not feeling the same way you feel. That is insanity. That is basic psychological projection.

 

If you don't need medical help, who does?

 

Thanks for editing out your claim that I'm "suffering from depression" -- that really hurt my feelings

 

 

I'm not projecting. I sent you a sociology paper (your self proclaimed area of expertise) which talks about modern society as a "culture of fear". You said name one bad thing about corporatism and I gave you one. I also cited earlier that a large percentage of Americans are on anti-depressants and this number is rising. What more proof do you need that people aren't happy?

 

Should I just falsely admit, that the majority of Americans are unhappy?

 

It is not like you provided one shred of evidence of it, besides your own life.

 

I gave you evidence of sociological research that sociologists and psychologists recognize that modern society is very fearful. Here's more evidence that you probably won't read

 

http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Culture_of_fear

 

http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/asr/v007/7.1vargas.html

 

As for the use of anti-depressants:

 

http://www.jointogether.org/news/research/summaries/2004/many-more-americans-taking.html

 

http://www.biopsychiatry.com/antidepressants/usa.html

Edited April 28, 2010 by mikaelz

[RongzomFan]

 

I'm not projecting. I even sent you a sociology paper (your self proclaimed area of expertise) which talks about modern society as a "culture of fear". You said name one bad thing about corporatism and I gave you one. I also cited earlier that over 45% of Americans are on anti-depressants. What more proof do you need that people aren't happy?

 

 

first thing, is that your link doesn't work

 

Second thing, your exerpt does not support your position.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Anyway have a look at those with VERY LITTLE FOOD SECURITY and try to imagine how it is to live like that.

 

Yes, I agree with this, but this is a very small portion of the population.

 

You don't change an entire economic system for this.

 

If you do, everyone becomes poor.

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[Taomeow]

You might want to seek medical help.

Minimize your tv content, and go to the gym, is what I would suggest along with medical help.

 

 

 

dude, I am tired of pointing out your errors with these long posts.

 

Clearly you can't read

 

---Moderator's Warning:---

 

Alwayson, we do not diagnose, treat, or insult other members here without having been asked to. (There's yet another post of yours here I haven't quoted, about "go see a psychiatrist" -- another poor addition to the collection of moderation-worthy entries you've accumulated in this thread.) One more ad hominem peep and you get a TTB posting vacation.

 

Everybody else, please lend me your ears:

 

This thread was briefly locked due to human error, but I'm beginning to think it was not human, it was a higher self that moved the lower self's hand to lock the thread in anticipation and foreknowledge of its further deterioration. Whoever is interested in keeping this discussion alive, please think twice before resorting to personal attacks, or the lower self will go along with the higher one and lock the thread for good. This thread has been generating reports on a daily basis and the mods are getting fed up. Keep this in mind.

 

---Moderator's sword half-unsheathed in vigilance---

[gendao]

Anyway have a look at those with VERY LITTLE FOOD SECURITY and try to imagine how it is to live like that.

I think people in this country have become so accustomed to consumerism...that they have forgotten that food can also be GROWN, RAISED, CAUGHT OR HUNTED - NOT just BOUGHT. And not only are these methods far cheaper - but healthier too.

 

Plant a garden. Plant some fruit or nut trees. Go fishing. You can reap incredible harvests over the years with very little initial investment using horticulture. There are tons of wasted greenspace in this country that are just kept useless lawns.

 

People need to relearn self-reliance OFF THE GRID again. Remember, no one forces you to live on the grid. And the less dependent you are upon it, the better. Sell your TVs and go plant some trees, folks.

Edited April 28, 2010 by vortex

[RongzomFan]

---Moderator's Warning:---

 

Alwayson, we do not diagnose, treat, or insult other members here without having been asked to. (There's yet another post of yours here I haven't quoted, about "go see a psychiatrist" -- another poor addition to the collection of moderation-worthy entries you've accumulated in this thread.) One more ad hominem peep and you get a TTB posting vacation.

 

Everybody else, please lend me your ears:

 

This thread was briefly locked due to human error, but I'm beginning to think it was not human, it was a higher self that moved the lower self's hand to lock the thread in anticipation and foreknowledge of its further deterioration. Whoever is interested in keeping this discussion alive, please think twice before resorting to personal attacks, or the lower self will go along with the higher one and lock the thread for good. This thread has been generating reports on a daily basis and the mods are getting fed up. Keep this in mind.

 

---Moderator's sword half-unsheathed in vigilance---

 

 

I think you need a midol

[Sunya]

I think you need a midol

 

Taomeow just ban him, he's obviously trolling.

[RongzomFan]

wow, that didn't get me banned yet?

 

Do I have to report myself?

Edited April 28, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

I think you all should report me, until I get banned

[Enishi]

This thread probably does need to be closed.

 

Rather than a capitalism vs. communism debate, I would like to see a discussion concerning the nature of voluntary vs coerced choices, their effects, and much of the things we see around us are due to this factors.

 

(Non-coercion is really the core tenet of libertarianism. The area where I do part ways with other libertarians is that I think many types of property "rights" really are a form of indirect coercion as well).

[Taomeow]

I think you all should report me, until I get banned

 

Patience, my friend, I'm busy.

 

Since you're volunteering, what's your choice of suspension time? -- we offer a minimum of one week for behaviors like yours, but you can get up to 90 days with due effort, or even a permanent ban if that's your heart's desire. Think about it and let me know. You might have to wait till you're actually denied access till later today though, sorry -- like I said, I'm busy...

[RongzomFan]

I will take the 90 day considering I was overly rude in this thread.

[Apech]

I will take the 90 day considering I was overly rude in this thread.

 

Take more if you want.

[Sunya]

Take more if you want.

 

LOL

[gendao]

Man another TB who lost it? Is our society reaching an underground breaking point? So much buried tension...

 

Anyhow, here is a personal story about life before & after Communism in Vietnam:

family rode the remaining 40 miles overland to Saigon, where Nguyen reported for duty at the national security section office.

 

"There was still hope, because the western part of Vietnam was still stable, and we believed we could establish ourselves there to resist and defeat the communists," Nguyen said.

 

With the withdrawal of American troops two years earlier, South Vietnamese forces could not hold off the communist advance. Saigon fell April 30. The war was over.

 

Nguyen, suddenly out of work with a wife and seven children to feed, operated a bicycle taxi for about six weeks. Then an order came for all officers of the defeated army to report to meetings.

 

In June 1975, Nguyen and hundreds of thousands of his fellow officers, intellectuals, religious leaders and others associated with the losing side were arrested and sent off to communist "re-education camps" for however long their keepers decided.

 

Nguyen spent the next 11 years being thrust into a series of filthy camps, subjected to desperate living conditions, intense indoctrination and hard labor in the jungle heat and mountain cold. It's not known how many inmates died from disease or were worked or starved to death in the camps.

 

Nguyen's wife, Que Pham, was left to fend for herself.

 

"My wife and children barely made a living by selling vegetables at the flea markets and collecting plastic bags to recycle," he said.

 

The government tried to entice detainees' families to move to remote settlements in the countryside, but Pham held out.

 

"These women were hopeless," Nguyen said. "They had to support themselves, raise their children, while being taken advantage of and were left without anything. They were deceived with promises that if they would go to these 'new economized places,' their husbands would be released early. ... It was an empty promise."

 

"The communists knew the wives were dedicated to their husbands, but they wanted the wives to go where they could not survive," Nguyen said. They wanted to wipe out a generation and all memory of freedom, he said.

 

Nguyen finally was released, and the family reunited in 1986, settling in Saigon, by now renamed Ho Chi Minh City, where he worked as a carpenter.

 

Vietnam's government has liberalized its social restrictions and economy since the mid-1980s, according to the CIA World Factbook, and foreign investment has pumped cash into the country.

 

Nguyen still despises the communists.

 

"They use propaganda to improve their image with the American people. They have no noble intention at all," he said of Vietnam's political leaders. "In Vietnam today, the people are oppressed so much."

 

The communists "still have control by taking advantage of capitalists who supply the money that keeps them in power," he said.

Like China, capitalism is the lifeline out of Communist poverty...

[Mal]

[gendao]

On a more positive note, look at how capitalism has transformed China within just a few years:

 

Before Capitalism:

 

After Capitalism (at the upcoming Expo 2010 Shanghai):

What a totally different vibe! One is like that of a fearful, abused child locked in a closet - the other of a healthy child free to roam out in the fields. Like going from B&W to Technicolor TV! A stunning display of the human potential unleashed by freedom & Darwinian competition.

Edited April 29, 2010 by vortex

[Sunya]

There is no arguing that capitalism has brought great progress to all nations that have embraced it, but as GiH rightly pointed out... there are problems with it too. No system is perfect and when criticized you can't just say "well look at the alternatives" That's silly. That's like a monarch saying "well look at how it was when you were nomads! I gave you all this progress because we settled down and began farming. Now you have consistent food! Sure most of you are slaves but look at the alternative!" Whatever alternative you come up with is only what's been done before, not what can be done in the future. Tweaking a system doesn't mean we should all become communists and critiquing corporatism doesn't mean I'd prefer to live in a hut.

 

btw if you're into true capitalism then check out the Austrian economic system -- seems like the truest system in terms of free market

 

http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp

 

Edited April 29, 2010 by mikaelz

[voidisyinyang]

[JustARandomPanda]

The other option is that we might move this thread into the pit, where it's un moderated and no longer an issue.

 

I think this is an excellent idea.

[Sunya]

I think this is an excellent idea.

 

I agree... unbanning gold is another excellent idea, imo. He's rough around the edges but that's just his nature. People get their feathers all ruffled here way too easily..

[Mal]