If energy flows downwards it gets deconverted into sexual energy?

[Non]

I've been confused as to the MCO and dan-tien storage practices.

 

I read that when energy flows upwards from the reproductive organs higher into the body it's being transmuted.

But the focusing on the dantien brings energy back down since it is in the lower torso and right above the reproductive organs, and is associated with them.

 

I'm also sure I need to not deny or neglect my reproductive organs, I do need energy there too or else it will become blocked. So how does one get energy into the organs without having the body produce semen? Not that I would necessarily get aroused but I had the idea that whenever energy flows down it automatically gets converted into semen and that when it flows up it gets transmuted. Perhaps this is wrong thinking? Can transmuted energy still circulate the entire lower extremes of the body and not become deconverted?

[Aetherous]

Refine by going up, replenish by going down.

 

[Ramon25]

I've been confused as to the MCO and dan-tien storage practices.

 

I read that when energy flows upwards from the reproductive organs higher into the body it's being transmuted.

But the focusing on the dantien brings energy back down since it is in the lower torso and right above the reproductive organs, and is associated with them.

 

I'm also sure I need to not deny or neglect my reproductive organs, I do need energy there too or else it will become blocked. So how does one get energy into the organs without having the body produce semen? Not that I would necessarily get aroused but I had the idea that whenever energy flows down it automatically gets converted into semen and that when it flows up it gets transmuted. Perhaps this is wrong thinking? Can transmuted energy still circulate the entire lower extremes of the body and not become deconverted?

 

 

Go here and stay there for a while. http://www.alchemicaltaoism.com/

[Non]

I will.

 

So perhaps it's the direction it goes up the back and front channels? Ie if it goes down from the coccyx it becomes deconverted into sexual energy?

[Sloppy Zhang]

The body always has semen produced. If you don't use semen after a while (no ejaculation) it breaks the semen down and new semen is made.

 

You don't "halt the process of semen production", and you certainly don't do it by not having any sexual energy.

 

Sex is part of humans. Sex is how you got here. You should not attach to sex or sexual thoughts. But you also should not attach to trying to not have sexual thoughts or sexual energy. That will only produce more sexual energy and give you a hard time.

 

Accept it without holding on to it. Energy going through the sexual organs is part of energy going through your body at all times. When you circulate energy it goes through the higher centers as well as the lower centers. The only reason it would cause a problem is if you have some kind of blockage or some kind of fixation surrounding your lower centers- energy will get stuck or otherwise pool there every time you try to do energy work, because that's where your focus, consciously or not, is.

 

And if you try to avoid the sexual energy and just not have sexual energy at all, and do work with everything else, as soon as you encounter some sort of sexual thing- a thought, an image, a word, well, energy flows from high density to low density, and if you have a high density of energy everywhere else in your body, but not a high density of energy where it comes to sexuality, well... guess where that energy is going? And guess where your focus is going to be?

 

And you will be back to square one.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Aetherous]

"deconverted"

 

It's not an all or nothing approach. You don't give up spirituality for sexuality. With Taoist methods, you have both at the same time.

[Non]

[Non]

Also.. what is considered sexual thought?

 

The mere thought of ejaculating? or what if you just liked thinking about the smile of a woman or the pleasure of her caress? Is that also sexual thoughts?

 

Some might say it is, but not enough to deconvert the jing as long as you keep your mind off of ejaculation. Others say it's sexual no matter what and is enough.

 

well, it's even hard to think about any of that without getting a boner tbh. Especially with the devious look most women have.

[Aetherous]

Brahmacharya holds a different POV.

 

Well Non, I gotta be honest, that sounds like a shitty point of view!

[markern]

[Sloppy Zhang]

Hm, well in general I don't like the extremism of the yogic philosophy, and I don't really like the nature of their practice or the verbiage use (it's very heavy on restricting things, on blocking, on strictly adhering to a certain something or another).

 

My own opinions aside, I don't see anything wrong with that description if it is something that you attract. Looking at the way Bardon describes things, physical things only manifest because there are things on the astral and mental levels which create them (and from what others have said, Bardon's system has many yogic elements in it) So, from that point of view, if you, through intense spiritual practice got control over the mental and astral realms, you could effect the physical realm, so if you did not want semen to form, you could make it so that semen could not form.

 

Look at how it is done. 12 years of intense spiritual practice. Yeah. Go up in a cave for 12 years and focus intensely on only spiritual practice. I bet you could do it. But think about what that involves. Getting away from everything. Everything. You're on the internet right now, which means you already fail. And even if you do go for 12 years, and think about how after 12 years you are going to be so free of everything, you know what I think is going to happen? I think you aren't going to get it. Do you know why? It has to do with (again) focusing on the negative. If all you are thinking is, "I'm never going to have any problems with sex", you are still focusing on the issue of sex. And that just isn't going to get you anywhere, I don't think.

 

Also, I think you can run into some serious problems trying to purge yourself in this way.

 

And thus we come back to my reasoning for why I don't really like the yogic way of looking at things and teaching them. It is very easy to get hurt trying to force a practice. Trying to force yourself not to think sexual thoughts is just going to screw you up. Trying to force yourself to sit in lotus position if you can't do it is going to screw up your knees. Trying to force yourself to survive off a glass of milk for a month is going to damn near kill you.

 

These practices and these events should (in my opinion and in my experience) arise from naturally letting go and being relaxed. If you let go and relax this stuff WILL happen, but when the timing is right. There are times when during sex I don't ejaculate. I wasn't trying, I was just enjoying the moment. I don't feel bad, I don't feel unbalanced. It's just not a problem. Then there are times when I try to not ejaculate, and that's when there are problems. There are some times when I just don't feel like eating. I eat a little or not at all, sometimes for an extended period, and I'm fine. I'm just eating when my body is hungry. Then there are other days when if I try to eat less even during one meal I'll feel like I'm starving because, well, my body craves nourishment. And there are times when I think lustful or otherwise sexual thoughts. And there are times when I just run with them and let them go when they're done and it's no problem. But when I try to force myself to stop I fail. Every time. Every time I think this will be the time I will stop, and I fail. Every time.

 

It just doesn't work. I don't have a problem with the techniques or the methods. I have a problem with the way that these techniques or methods are reached. There are people out there who think, "if you attain enlightenment it won't matter anyway", "once you reach a high level of control over the astral you can just reconstruct your body so you can fix yourself." Right, well that's all well and good, but in the meantime? If you fail and are a complete mental and physical wreck? Well, I guess the effort gives you good karma so maybe you can succeed in a few more lifetimes.

 

I'm going to take a page from Christianity and say that you can tell whether something is good by looking at its fruit. If the fruit is good you know that where it came from was good. Good practices will help you physically and mentally. A practice that destroys you physically and winds up your mind so tightly that you can't even stand to think one sexual thought because "the mind is starved to death" is, in my opinion, not the best way to go about doing things.

 

Rather than focusing on starving out the bad things, I prefer to focus on nourishing the good things, while not attaching too much to the bad.

 

I also think markern has a very good point- given your past threads, I don't think this is a good undertaking. Because while you may be doing the right things, I think you would be doing them for the wrong reasons. And when it comes to extreme practices, you cannot do them for the wrong reasons. You will fail, and you will be hurt.

 

Which is again why I suggest you relax and let go from all of the stuff you are worried about. Then examine your motives. Get to the root of the problem. And this will be hard. You don't like seeing parts of yourself for what they are. And always examine what you are DOING, not what you SAY you are doing. You might "say" you are doing some great spiritual practice to absolve yourself of sexual desires so you can ascend and be one with the Divine.... but what are you actually DOING? You may very well be running away from a problem you are unable to accept and solve.

 

Whew, long post. Sorry if it seems very intense and heavy handed. I tried to use the phrase "I think" quite liberally, stressing this is all my opinion, but trust me, this comes from a lot of experience and a lot of self introspection and examination.

 

I hope you made it through at least a part of my post and can take something out of it.

[Non]

Hm, well in general I don't like the extremism of the yogic philosophy, and I don't really like the nature of their practice or the verbiage use (it's very heavy on restricting things, on blocking, on strictly adhering to a certain something or another).

 

My own opinions aside, I don't see anything wrong with that description if it is something that you attract. Looking at the way Bardon describes things, physical things only manifest because there are things on the astral and mental levels which create them (and from what others have said, Bardon's system has many yogic elements in it) So, from that point of view, if you, through intense spiritual practice got control over the mental and astral realms, you could effect the physical realm, so if you did not want semen to form, you could make it so that semen could not form.

 

Look at how it is done. 12 years of intense spiritual practice. Yeah. Go up in a cave for 12 years and focus intensely on only spiritual practice. I bet you could do it. But think about what that involves. Getting away from everything. Everything. You're on the internet right now, which means you already fail. And even if you do go for 12 years, and think about how after 12 years you are going to be so free of everything, you know what I think is going to happen? I think you aren't going to get it. Do you know why? It has to do with (again) focusing on the negative. If all you are thinking is, "I'm never going to have any problems with sex", you are still focusing on the issue of sex. And that just isn't going to get you anywhere, I don't think.

 

Also, I think you can run into some serious problems trying to purge yourself in this way.

 

And thus we come back to my reasoning for why I don't really like the yogic way of looking at things and teaching them. It is very easy to get hurt trying to force a practice. Trying to force yourself not to think sexual thoughts is just going to screw you up. Trying to force yourself to sit in lotus position if you can't do it is going to screw up your knees. Trying to force yourself to survive off a glass of milk for a month is going to damn near kill you.

 

These practices and these events should (in my opinion and in my experience) arise from naturally letting go and being relaxed. If you let go and relax this stuff WILL happen, but when the timing is right. There are times when during sex I don't ejaculate. I wasn't trying, I was just enjoying the moment. I don't feel bad, I don't feel unbalanced. It's just not a problem. Then there are times when I try to not ejaculate, and that's when there are problems. There are some times when I just don't feel like eating. I eat a little or not at all, sometimes for an extended period, and I'm fine. I'm just eating when my body is hungry. Then there are other days when if I try to eat less even during one meal I'll feel like I'm starving because, well, my body craves nourishment. And there are times when I think lustful or otherwise sexual thoughts. And there are times when I just run with them and let them go when they're done and it's no problem. But when I try to force myself to stop I fail. Every time. Every time I think this will be the time I will stop, and I fail. Every time.

 

It just doesn't work. I don't have a problem with the techniques or the methods. I have a problem with the way that these techniques or methods are reached. There are people out there who think, "if you attain enlightenment it won't matter anyway", "once you reach a high level of control over the astral you can just reconstruct your body so you can fix yourself." Right, well that's all well and good, but in the meantime? If you fail and are a complete mental and physical wreck? Well, I guess the effort gives you good karma so maybe you can succeed in a few more lifetimes.

 

I'm going to take a page from Christianity and say that you can tell whether something is good by looking at its fruit. If the fruit is good you know that where it came from was good. Good practices will help you physically and mentally. A practice that destroys you physically and winds up your mind so tightly that you can't even stand to think one sexual thought because "the mind is starved to death" is, in my opinion, not the best way to go about doing things.

 

Rather than focusing on starving out the bad things, I prefer to focus on nourishing the good things, while not attaching too much to the bad.

 

I also think markern has a very good point- given your past threads, I don't think this is a good undertaking. Because while you may be doing the right things, I think you would be doing them for the wrong reasons. And when it comes to extreme practices, you cannot do them for the wrong reasons. You will fail, and you will be hurt.

 

Which is again why I suggest you relax and let go from all of the stuff you are worried about. Then examine your motives. Get to the root of the problem. And this will be hard. You don't like seeing parts of yourself for what they are. And always examine what you are DOING, not what you SAY you are doing. You might "say" you are doing some great spiritual practice to absolve yourself of sexual desires so you can ascend and be one with the Divine.... but what are you actually DOING? You may very well be running away from a problem you are unable to accept and solve.

 

Whew, long post. Sorry if it seems very intense and heavy handed. I tried to use the phrase "I think" quite liberally, stressing this is all my opinion, but trust me, this comes from a lot of experience and a lot of self introspection and examination.

 

I hope you made it through at least a part of my post and can take something out of it.

 

 

I appreciate it.

 

Actually. My friend says brahmacharya is not just about sex. It is about complete continence in everything. Ie passions, etc. All rooted in lust of course, but that's because all lust in life (for material things) is (said) to be rooted in sexual lust because the sexual energy is creative energy, jing is the essence the most densest form of energy in the body.

 

So it means, not just abstaining from sexual thoughts, etc. That may provide a foundation, but it's better to go about it all at once, controlling all passions. To not waste energy and be negentropic in a way. Do things that in the end are worth more than the actions themselves, or that generate more energy than what you exerted to get there, or in the end will result in more energy. And to keep the mind on divine things, ie "brahman". A state of purity and continence. Mind on God all the time.

 

Anyway.. that's how he put it.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

I appreciate it.

 

Actually. My friend says brahmacharya is not just about sex. It is about complete continence in everything. Ie passions, etc. All rooted in lust of course, but that's because all lust in life (for material things) is (said) to be rooted in sexual lust because the sexual energy is creative energy, jing is the essence the most densest form of energy in the body.

 

So it means, not just abstaining from sexual thoughts, etc. That may provide a foundation, but it's better to go about it all at once, controlling all passions. To not waste energy and be negentropic in a way. Do things that in the end are worth more than the actions themselves, or that generate more energy than what you exerted to get there, or in the end will result in more energy. And to keep the mind on divine things, ie "brahman". A state of purity and continence. Mind on God all the time.

 

Anyway.. that's how he put it.

 

That's good, but even then that's a focus on the positive, rather than the negative.

 

And if you think about filling yourself with divine energy, and focusing with your entire being on Brahman, or whatever you go with, well.... that includes the parts involving sex.

 

So you should be able to have energy circulate through there without being aroused. If stuff happens, don't attached and just let it go.