The Amazing Liver and GallBladder Flush

[Trunk]

A friend turned me on to this book:

 

 

What gets pooped out as a result of the process:

(will the horrifying wonders never stop? )

 

 

 

There are plenty more pictures under the book image at amazon. Plus there are 101 reviews. So, that should be enough to start a conversation.

[thelerner]

A friend turned me on to this book:

 

 

What gets pooped out as a result of the process:

 

There are plenty more pictures under the book image at amazon. Plus there are 101 reviews. So, that should be enough to start a conversation.

 

I looked through the overwhelmingly positive reviews from the book. Then looked deeper, here is the best site against it: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=93

 

 

Here are some excerpts:

 

"What has been done, however, is a lovely little study that suggests just how much self-delusion is involved in liver flushes. Like the case of colon cleanses, when seasoned con men learn how liver flushes actually “work,” they will be likely to tip their hats in appreciation for such simplicity and perfection, a scam, where the remedy induces the “evidence” of its efficacy. But on to the case report to which I refer that a group in New Zealand contributed to the Lancet:

 

A 40-year-old woman was referred to the outpatient clinic with a 3-month history of recurrent severe right hypochondrial pain after fatty food. [Note: Here "hypochondrial" means "below the ribcage,' not "hypochondriac."] Abdominal ultrasound showed multiple 1-2 mm gallstones in the gallbladder.

 

She had recently followed a “liver cleansing” regime on the advice of a herbalist. This regime consisted of free intake of apple and vegetable juice until 1800 h, but no food, followed by the consumption of 600 mL of olive oil and 300 mL of lemon juice over several hours. This activity resulted in the painless passage of multiple semisolid green “stones” per rectum in the early hours of the next morning. She collected them, stored them in the freezer, and presented them in the clinic.

 

Microscopic examination of our patient’s stones revealed that they lacked any crystalline structure, melted to an oily green liquid after 10 min at 40°C, and contained no cholesterol, bilirubin, or calcium by established wet chemical methods. Traditional faecal fat extraction techniques indicated that the stones contained fatty acids that required acid hydrolysis to give free fatty acids before extraction into ether. These fatty acids accounted for 75% of the original material.

 

Experimentation revealed that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi solid white balls after the addition of a small volume of a potassium hydroxide solution. On air drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard.

 

We conclude, therefore, that these green “stones” resulted from the action of gastric lipases on the simple and mixed triacylglycerols that make up olive oil, yielding long chain carboxylic acids (mainly oleic acid). This process was followed by saponification into large insoluble micelles of potassium carboxylates (lemon juice contains a high concentration of potassium) or “soap stones”.

 

In other words, the “stones” that liver cleansers are so proud of and go to such effort to strain their poo for after doing their flushes are not gallstones and were almost certainly the product of the actual flush itself! (Cue the con men tipping their hats in appreciation.) It makes perfect sense, if you think about it. These protocols usually involve fasting and then consuming up to a half liter or more of olive oil at one time. That could easily provide the conditions for this sort of reaction to take place.

 

Neat, isn’t it? The very sign of “success” of the liver flush is something that has nothing to do with gallstones and everything to do with the results of the flush itself. Indeed, it’s quite clear that, even if you don’t have gallstones, if you do a liver flush and then look closely enough, you’ll find things in your stool that very much look like gallstones that are really due to saponified oil. Now I know (and you do too) why virtually every liver flush protocol includes large amounts of olive oil or similar oils plus epsom salts or orthophophoric acid and fruit juices. Unfortunately, I have not seen any more recent studies, and I’m not sure if any are really needed after the investigators discussed above conclusively showed that they could mimic these “stones” chemically.

 

In any case, it’s a beautiful scam. People do these flushes, they see things that look to them like gallstones being “flushed” out, and they believe it works. Consequently, they keep doing it. Because these flushes involve materials that don’t have to be purchased from a “healer” (although certainly many “healers” sell various “supplements” to “aid” liver flushes), they can be viewed more as a means of healers to demonstrate their skill and keep the patient coming. (And going, too!) It also serves as a way of “demonstrating” the efficacy of “detoxification.” "

 

 

 

 

I found a discussion board on Liver Flushing; again many said it helped, but those who had the stones analyzed found they were a hardened olive oil/lemon juice mix, ie there is no flush, just round balls produced by the method itself.

 

What do I think?

Half con, but not necessarily worthless, the site makes clear that Hulda is over reaching w/ the claims of parasites and the nature of stones, but it might be the the method has cleansing and detox effects, the stones are just a side show. You're almost literally creating soap inside your body!

 

What do I know?

Nothing, as per usual. If I suspected I had liver or gall bladder problems I might try it, but I suspect other forms of fasting might be better.

 

For what its worth the article and other sites have outlines on how to do the flushing.

 

 

Michael

[Trunk]

I looked through the overwhelmingly positive reviews from the book. Then looked deeper, here is the best site against it: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=93

Interesting.

Thanks for the research, which I certainly hadn't done.

 

Assuming the 'stones' are entirely bogus, self-induced by the 'treatment'. A natural following idea would be that any felt benefits (beyond just that "interesting stuff was pooped out") would be entirely self-delusion. Curious as to what felt resulting benefits people who've tried the flush claim, and if those benefits are easily attributable to self-delusion.

[gendao]

I found a discussion board on Liver Flushing; again many said it helped, but those who had the stones analyzed found they were a hardened olive oil/lemon juice mix, ie there is no flush, just round balls produced by the method itself.

 

What do I think?

Half con, but not necessarily worthless, the site makes clear that Hulda is over reaching w/ the claims of parasites and the nature of stones, but it might be the the method has cleansing and detox effects, the stones are just a side show. You're almost literally creating soap inside your body!

 

What do I know?

Nothing, as per usual. If I suspected I had liver or gall bladder problems I might try it, but I suspect other forms of fasting might be better.

 

For what its worth the article and other sites have outlines on how to do the flushing.

Ya, the jury is still out on whether the "green raisins" are actually gallstones...or soap produced from the concoction itself. I'm personally not sure. I've tried the flush myself & sometimes got way more raisins than other times...so it's not as consistent as you'd think if it were merely from the concoction. OTOH, I wouldn't be surprised if it was really just from the concoction itself, either.

 

But even if it is, I think it might still be helpful in flushing out the bile ducts & gallbladder. Basically, bile is a very alkaline substance that the liver produces to digest fats. So, what the liver flush does is prohibit you from eating fats all day long (so that all your bile stores up in your gallbladder) - and then has you chug a bunch right before bed, thus releasing a huge dump of this stored-up bile. This action is what supposedly "flushes" out the bile pathway.

 

BTW, I've tried colonics too - & I would say that those do seem to have a beneficial effect. My sides got a lot softer & slimmer afterwards. And my facial complexion would brighten up immediately after too. That's just my opinion based upon my personal experience though, and I can't state any supposed benefits for a scientific fact.

Edited April 26, 2010 by vortex

[Aetherous]

Related to liver/gallbladder flushing:

 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/chlorogenic.htm

[orb]

[Gerard]

It took me 5 flushes to get rid of gallbladder and liver stones and lose 5 Kgs of toxic waste in my body.

 

 

The all came out green which shos the association between the colour green-wood element (liver + gallbladder group) and the stones.

 

What you are really removing is the external manifestation of the Qi blockage in those organs due to external damage. According to the wisdom of TCM, the main role of the liver and gallblader in TCM is:

 

They depend on each other to perform their functions. They both play an essential role in the smooth flow of Qi throughout the body. In order to plan a good life (which is a function of the Liver), one needs good decision making skills (which is a function of the Gallbladder).

 

Needless to say that modern society badly damages the energy of internal organs, and block the flow of Qi in all of them given birth to what is called: MENTAL INSTABILITY or MENTAL ILLNESS, which plagues modern society.

 

I recommend a liver/gallbladder flush to anyone interested in higher spiritual cultivation, and of course improved health and mental clarity.

 

 

Thanks for bringing up this key topic, Trunk.

Edited April 26, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Trunk]

It took me 7 flushes to get rid of gallbladder and liver stones and lose 5 Kgs of toxic waste in my body.

...

I recommend a liver/gallbladder flush to anyone interested in higher spiritual cultivation.

Curious, if you'd be so generous and if it's not too personal..

Aside from the fact that you pooped out that wild green stuff, did you notice any changes in your health before / after?

... of either by any subjective measures of sense of well-being (ex's, "some pain went away", "I felt more energetic", etc) or by any external measure (ex's, "I could run further", "skin condition cleared up", etc).

 

~ edit ~

It took me 7 flushes to get rid of gallbladder and liver stones...

Did you follow the same protocol each time?, and was there a diminishment of the amount of 'stones' that you passed from 1st to later flushes?

 

- Trunk

[devoid]

Indeed, we have to be careful with turning to wonder cures and easy flushes.

 

Here's another article debunking the cleansing myth based on lab reports that show that the green stones are in fact only soap-like formations from the coagulated olive oil occasionally tainted green by bile:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/flushes.html

 

I studied this topic intensely trying to cure myself from choledochololithiasis (aka clogging of the common bile duct). I should note that I did manage to treat myself using non-invasive techniques outlined in the article I posted under the link below.

 

In researching the topic deeper I also found that nothing which you ingest will ever reach the liver (except through the bloodstream, of course). There is a good explanation for this based on anatomy: Following the stomach, you have the duodenum - a pipe which transports what we ate from the stomach onto the intestines. Somewhere in the middle of the duodenum is a tract (kind of an injection pipe, if you like). This pipe is the common bile duct, which transports bile from the liver and gall bladder as well as 'juices' (enzymes, etc.) from the pancreas. Between the common bile duct and duodenum sits a small sphincter called the Sphincter of Oddi (aka SO). The common cure for a clogged up bile duct is to cut SO and then manually (using a pointy object jerk around the opening and let the bile and juices from the pancreas flow. There is just one problem here: A cut sphincter does not heal and as a result, there is a lifelong risk of reflux (i.e. the flow of matter from the duodenum back up into the common bile duct, and from there potentially causing inflammations of the liver or pancreas (pancreatitis).

 

I created a way to massage this away (without sphincterotomy!) which I described on: http://www.justalittleqi.com/choledocholithiasis-manual-fix.html

 

Since clearing my bile duct, my liver has been able to regenerate quite a bit from very fatty liver to a more lean / regular liver (i.e. where the liver cells are no longer enlarged, causing strain on the cell walls potentially leading to scarring of the liver and cirrhosis.

 

Thus, to conclude my point I want to say two things:

1. The liver itself is an amazing organ which can take a lot of hardship as well as quite remarkably: It can also regenerate itself. Indeed, certain herbs can help stimulate the production of bile (I know of research indicating that Chinese rhubarb, artichoke leaves as well as milk thistle). Yet, for the liver to recover, it really needs some rest from what makes it work so hard, i.e. fatty foods and alcohol which should be brought down to an absolute minimum or better even; avoided altogether.

2. If the exhaust system is blocked, the engine chokes, and won't be able to regenerate. With this I mean that should the common bile duct become clogged (symtoms may include yellow feces, jaundice, etc.) the liver probably won't be able to recover much on its own, no matter what good you try to do it. In fact (and although rare) a fully clogged up bile duct will lead to death. Finally, please note that liver specialists consider cholodoholithiasis (clogging of the common bile duct) to be a fairly rare condition.

 

Best regards,

-matt

[reddragon]

..

Edited April 27, 2010 by reddragon

[reddragon]

..

[Gerard]

Curious, if you'd be so generous and if it's not too personal..

Aside from the fact that you pooped out that wild green stuff, did you notice any changes in your health before / after?

 

Certainly, a lot of stuff:

 

1. Less and improved sleep

2. Less food

3. More energised

4. Calmer attitude, zero restlessness

5. Improved tendon and muscle flexibility, lowered tightness of both (Baguazhang has helped a lot anyway due to tendon changing process of this internal art)

6. Minimal emotion swings

 

 

Summing up,

 

When the liver functions smoothly, physical and emotional activity throughout the body also runs smoothly.

 

 

Did you follow the same protocol each time?, and was there a diminishment of the amount of 'stones' that you passed from 1st to later flushes?

 

Yes, but the diminishment varied. The first three flushes released small stones, the 4th and the 5th released the largest stones, as you can read in here:

 

http://www.durkhrodchogori.com/2010/01/more-on-liver-health.html

 

The 6th and last flush came up completely clean.

[Trunk]

DC,

 

The Ch. medical adage is that "the Liver rules spreading and flowing".

 

Certainly, a lot of stuff:

(lists improvements)

...

 

Yes, but the diminishment varied. The first three flushes released small stones, the 4th and the 5th released the largest stones, ... The 6th and last flush came up completely clean.

Thank you for your experienced-based feedback.

The friend who referred me to the program also experienced very substantial improvement in conditions. I've known him for a long time, he is a dr of Ch.medicine and also a serious cookie (w/ a sense of humor that you wouldn't believe). I believe his observations about his improvements: they're quite substantial enough to not be delusional, imho.

 

Seems to me that the 'liver flush' does something. What that is, I don't know. And I really don't know what those things are; I'm certainly not convinced that they're gallstones (at least probably not entirely), especially given the counter arguments presented. If the program produces improvement, that's the bottom line for me. As to knowing exact mechanics, that's a distant lower priority (though of course would be cool, just not always easy/possible).

 

I paid $22 for the book via amazon (obviously not all of that goes to the author). Other than that the main expense is organic apple juice (all of the elements of the diet are commonly bought items). If I do it multiple times it's definitely the apple growers who are going to win $$; personally, I think that they're behind the conspiracy.

 

There is no 'fast'. You continue eating meals, just not heavy stuff like steaks.

 

- Trunk

 

~ edit ~

p.s.

Also, since you applied the same protocol but ultimately got a 'stone'-free poop, that says that ... well, something changed inside. Sounds like there was progressive change. So, imh conclusion, the process itself doesn't create an entirely bogus result independent of your internals: it does something. And the beneficial results that you've stated and that my friend stated do line up with Ch.medical views of Liver function. Whether the mechanics & results are exactly what the book author claims, ... (the discussion goes on)

[三江源]

.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 三江源

[Ya Mu]

 

...

The all came out green which shos the association between the colour green-wood element (liver + gallbladder group) and the stones....

 

 

green = bile

[bindo]

An alternative to Hulda Clark's liver cleanse.

 

Other info and links. Liver flush info & links.

[Seth Ananda]

[RedFox]

did you notice any changes in your health before / after?

 

For me at least, the change was undeniable.

 

Maybe 10 years ago, I had stubbornly allowed pain under my right ribs to go undiagnosed and untreated, for a year, maybe closer to two. At first it was just light chronic pain, but after that long a time, it had gotten to where I almost couldn't ignore it anymore. Happened to see a chiropractor at the time for a back injury, and mentioned it, and was given a flush recipe that included lemon juice, coca cola, and olive oil. It was the most disgusting concoction I'd ever drank up to that point.

 

When I woke up the next morning, I took citrate of magnesium, and proceeded to spend a great deal of the morning on the toilet. The green stuff was kind of interesting, but what fascinated me was that I was completely pain free for the first time in a very long time. It was bliss, it was so unmistakeably different from what I'd gotten used to. I was pain-free for three days before light symptoms returned. I tried it again a week or so after the first time, and the pain was pretty much gone.

 

Initially, I had to keep using it every few months to stay out of pain, until one day I realized that I needed to just change my diet.

 

I can't swear that if I'd been examined by an M.D. that they would've taken my gallbladder out (what I learned about the symptoms I had, I can suspect it.) I don't know what other people experience and if it's got a belief/hype aspect to it. I don't think it's for everybody, and I don't think it's a long-term solution (it really drained my energy for 1-2 days afterwards). I do think it has applications, though, and it was effective for me.

[Gerard]

green = bile

 

Green = bile = sap = tree= wood.

 

 

Anyway,

 

I know feel my liver like a tree connected to all joints, tendons, muscles and bones as if they were all branches of a tree. Baguazhang has helped me to feel very in tune with my internal organs and I clearly understand now why Taoists associated the liver with the status of being the "General" of all the organs.

 

Trunk,

 

Thanks for your feedback as well. From a health perspective, liver cleansing is one of the best decisions I have made in my life.

[Taomeow]

I've studied traditional (i.e. authentic, not corporate) medicine of many countries and have a vast library on same. I have never, ever come across a tradition that doesn't include all manner of cleanses in its repertoire. Ayurveda is practically obsessed with them, considering the accumulated impurities the root of most unhealthy states. They cleanse the brain with nasyas, the circulatory system with lepas, the internal organs with enemas, etc. etc.. They scrape the tongue and bathe the sinuses in drops that feel like a bullet through the brain and can rewire your brain and cure even autism, epilepsy and stupidity.

 

Liver/galbladder flush done the modern naturopathic way is not part of any tradition I'm aware of, being too harsh -- and dangerous in case there's a large stone sitting there that will get going and block a bile duct -- but there's liver/galbladder cleanses all over these traditions which are gentler, slower, and surer, usually involving bitter herbs, special diets, and external applications of heat with oil with herbs to the right side while lying on the right side.

 

The big caveat with modern flushes/cleanses is that it is a method disconnected from the traditional way to do it that always takes into account the season, the phase of the moon, and the patient's constitution. No tradition ever advocates the use of a harsh cleanse with a very weak, emaciated person, or anyone with any advanced "deficiency" symptoms, or the "wrong dosha" in the case of Ayurveda, etc.. The season to do it is spring, sometimes autumn, never winter and never summer. The moon must be vaning. For a woman, the phase of her cycle is taken into account. And so on.

 

As for the debunkers of all things natural, without a single exception they are paid prostitutes of the big Pharma, not scientists. What you get from them is what you get from any whore: catering to the paying customer. Drug companies being the only customer who's ever paid for all those "studies" that invariably debunk absolutely anything that can bring the sales of any drug down by making anyone at all a bit healthier.

[reddragon]

Can the bullet through the brain drops be purchased anywhere?

[Gerard]

...

 

The big caveat with modern flushes/cleanses is that it is a method disconnected from the traditional way to do it that always takes into account the season, the phase of the moon, and the patient's constitution. No tradition ever advocates the use of a harsh cleanse with a very weak, emaciated person, or anyone with any advanced "deficiency" symptoms, or the "wrong dosha" in the case of Ayurveda, etc.. The season to do it is spring, sometimes autumn, never winter and never summer. The moon must be vaning. For a woman, the phase of her cycle is taken into account. And so on....

 

Certainly. I did my liver & gallbladder cleansing during spring time and following new moon phases. I forgot to include this info on my page. Need to update that section. Thanks for the reminder.

 

I missed including the position of the east, the celestial animal dragon and the ruling planet Jupiter in this alchemical transformation process. I wish I had a Taoist wizard alongside that could teach me this stuff.

[Trunk]

For me at least, the change was undeniable.

 

Maybe 10 years ago, I had stubbornly allowed pain under my right ribs to go undiagnosed and untreated, for a year, maybe closer to two. ..

 

.. what fascinated me was that I was completely pain free for the first time in a very long time. ..

 

Initially, I had to keep using it every few months to stay out of pain, until one day I realized that I needed to just change my diet.

 

Thank you. Interesting. Always gold to hear from direct experience.

 

And, TaoMeow, some interesting points. Certainly for women the time in cycle would be important. For everyone, season especially I'd think (as well as any specific personal conditions). Early spring-time ideal, I'd suspect.

[三江源]

.

Edited March 17, 2015 by 三江源

[Ya Mu]

Green = bile = sap = tree= wood.

...

I just don't agree with the TCM tie-in you posted. But what the heck, whatever works for you.

 

About this flush.

IMO it is way too harsh.

 

What I prefer is naturopathic evidence based botanical formulas. My favorite is a product called super milk thistle x by Integrative Therapeutics. It consists of milk thistle, artichoke, dandelion, and licorice.