What's the deal with hexagram 21-22

[Pietro]

In the i-ching each odd hexagram is strongly related to the even hexagram that follows it. To the point that often they point to the same situation, from opposite point of view. So you have hexagram 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 11-12, 13-14, 15-16, 17-18, 19-20.

But in some cases the relation is not so obvious. You might have noticed that I missed some pair above.

 

And yet no way is the relation more obscure to me than with the couple 21-22.

One is Fire over thunder, biting through. And it has to do with "administering justice", and the other is fire inside the mountain, "adorning".

 

Is the relation that you need discipline to appear beautiful?

 

Anything else?

 

P.

[Cloudhand]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Cloud

[三江源]

Maybe this link will help..

 

Online clarity

 

it articulates the issue thus:

The sequence leading from 21 to 22 says that 'beings cannot be united carelessly,' and indeed the moving lines of Hexagram 22 do describe marital and courtship ceremonies. After you have bitten through to the essence, you need to find ways to express it; inner work is matched by the task of finding a true face for the world.

[Procurator]

[Pietro]

[Cloudhand]

Thanks Cat,

that's the kind of explanations I had. And somehow it kept feeling it was artificial.

 

 

 

First because I am not sure that biting through has much to do with biting through the essence and not being biten by the law, or being the law and biting the criminal. The idea of the essence feels a bit of a modernization of it.

 

In this respect I love TianShi description:

 

 

 

 

So essentially it is the pollice recto, pollice verso of the romans. Makes sense.

 

And the idea of having bits and pieces cut away from you does not only follow my understanding of old chinese times, but also connects to Bruce modern teachings. "People in the old times were not doing tai ji to win push hands competitions, but to go to war coming back with as many of their pieces as possible. This gives a fairly different focus in the practice"

 

Although, TIanShi, I would love to understand better your sources. Do you have access to an independent oral tradition? Are you an academic scholar (the only academic scholar that uses "u" instead of "you" ;-) ).

 

Thank you in all cases,

problem solved, case closed.

Pietro

 

I Ching is not to bad for divination but if you want want to answer the question on beauty go to Crowley Taro deck all answers are there. Cloudhand ps; he's i ching is the best I seen.

[三江源]

Yes, TianShi, your input is good and crunchy. Thanks. (I'm trying to learn more about the I Ching.)

[Pietro]

I Ching is not to bad for divination but if you want want to answer the question on beauty go to Crowley Taro deck all answers are there. Cloudhand ps; he's i ching is the best I seen.

 

Thanks. I do not share the widespread fascination for Crowley. Beside my interest is mostly trying to understand Taoism by itself. Not in its most modern interpretations. As I am not interested in Crowley, and I do not believe Crowley could give me anything-but a modern interpretation of it, I really have no use for its work. But do not take my entry as a suggestion that you should not read Crowley. There is probably an important message there for you.

[Cloudhand]

Closed mind, Closed universe. Strange for a so called math person. Cloud ps; I would rather keep a open mind a lot of Taoism is hit or miss, just like budo it was made for bored samurais when there swords where banned.

Edited May 3, 2010 by Cloudhand

[Procurator]

 

 

Although, TIanShi, I would love to understand better your sources. Do you have access to an independent oral tradition? Are you an academic scholar (the only academic scholar that uses "u" instead of "you" ;-) ).

 

Hi Pietro

i am not getting paid for my reasearch and dont have a degree in the field so not a scholar. Also no independent oral tradition, which unlikely to go back 3000 yrs anyway.

 

for a sample of sources indicative of modern understanding of the history pls look at these links:

http://faculty.vassar.edu/brvannor/translation.html

 

http://gallery.sjsu.edu/sacrifice/chinese.html

http://zhouyi.sdu.edu.cn/english0/yiology/sub2/onTheConnection.asp

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=jWCMTyYjIicC&pg=PA157&lpg=PA157&dq=guicang&source=bl&ots=ea6wNJKTJK&sig=KMhcp7_jmUYb5NvgbtTbmKJ419A&hl=en&ei=0bWkS-D_H5Dq7APc0ui_Bw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CCYQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=true

 

the history of Yijing starts with oracle bone divination back at Shang dinasty, then it was wiped out by upheaval of Warring States and Qin dinasty cultural sea change. The meaning of oracle bone lines which constitute the basis for the book was forgotten and misconstrued in subsequent centuries.

 

So , the modern scholarshp that slowly re-discovers it based on archeological finds is my source.

 

 

E. g. note where the "pairing " of hexagrams comes from:

 

Paired divination charges were complementary (Keightly 1988:373), "We will receive millet harvest", and "We may not receive millet harvest,"(Keightly 1988:374) suggesting the Shang diviners were dualistic in their worldview-"auspicious and inauspicious", "victory and defeat", "life and death", "good and bad" (Keightly 1988:374). It may also suggest that the divination ritual had more credibility by embracing both possible outcomes of either good or bad-a sort of metaphysical equity (Keightly 1988:375). Overall, this paired, complementary approach to the divination charge suggests an early yin yang view of the universe (Keightly 1988:377).

http://www.cameronfreeman.com/index.cfm?Fuseaction=ArticleDisplay&ArticleID=349&SectionID=93

Edited May 4, 2010 by TianShi

[Pietro]

Hi Pietro

i am not getting paid for my reasearch and dont have a degree in the field so not a scholar. Also no independent oral tradition, which unlikely to go back 3000 yrs anyway.

 

for a sample of sources indicative of modern understanding of the history pls look at these links:

http://faculty.vassa...ranslation.html

 

http://gallery.sjsu....ce/chinese.html

http://zhouyi.sdu.ed...eConnection.asp

 

http://books.google....nepage&q&f=true

 

the history of Yijing starts with oracle bone divination back at Shang dinasty, then it was wiped out by upheaval of Warring States and Qin dinasty cultural sea change. The meaning of oracle bone lines which constitute the basis for the book was forgotten and misconstrued in subsequent centuries.

 

So , the modern scholarshp that slowly re-discovers it based on archeological finds is my source.

 

 

E. g. note where the "pairing " of hexagrams comes from:

 

Paired divination charges were complementary (Keightly 1988:373), "We will receive millet harvest", and "We may not receive millet harvest,"(Keightly 1988:374) suggesting the Shang diviners were dualistic in their worldview-"auspicious and inauspicious", "victory and defeat", "life and death", "good and bad" (Keightly 1988:374). It may also suggest that the divination ritual had more credibility by embracing both possible outcomes of either good or bad-a sort of metaphysical equity (Keightly 1988:375). Overall, this paired, complementary approach to the divination charge suggests an early yin yang view of the universe (Keightly 1988:377).

http://www.cameronfr...49&SectionID=93

 

Thanks.

The elements you pulled out make a lot of sense. Also I remember Alan (anthropologist) telling me how there was a tomb of thousands of years ago with a dragon inscribed with shells on the one side, and a tiger on the other. The buried king was in the middle.

 

Said that, I am not sure there are no oral traditions alive in China.

[Pietro]

Closed mind, Closed universe. Strange for a so called math person. Cloud ps; I would rather keep a open mind a lot of Taoism is hit or miss, just like budo it was made for bored samurais when there swords where banned.

 

You know, I find it surprising that you are 60.

[Cloudhand]

You know, I find it surprising that you are 60.

 

 

59 and half my brother. You can see my picture on facebook Tao Bums with my baby kate