Career choice...

[Pietro]

agreed with everybody else:

do something

until there is something you want to do

then do it

[三江源]

?

 

OK, if we follow this rationale we should talk about the following:

 

1. Cars. We need them for transport, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

2. Movies. We need them for entertainment, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

3. House repairs. we need them to live comfortably, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

4. News. They keep us informed about the latest social and political developments of our world, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

5. Travelling. We need to travel in order to learn and grow, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

6. Photography. It will show us different perspectives of our planet, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

7. Cooking. We need it so we can put food in our bodies, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

8. Cleaning. We need it to safeguard our cleanness, hence they are an important aspect of the Way

 

As you can see, the list could go on and on.

 

BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THE WAY.

 

So, why don't we change the name of this forum into something like:

 

THE NEW VOGUE FORUMS.

I wonder if you are posting from a haunted house , or if a vampire has got hold of you.

HOPE YOU ARE OKAY.

[Apech]

I wonder if you are posting from a haunted house , or if a vampire has got hold of you.

HOPE YOU ARE OKAY.

 

We could send a rescue party armed with super large font and caps lock.

[gendao]

If you can make use of that lack of motivation you can go far. As long as it's not apathy it's actually very healthy, the beginnings of a hermit or a monk type existence/mind-it's a prerequisite in all the non-materialistic wisdom traditions. 'Our' culture doesn't encourage a non-economic model of existence so everyone around you will try and make you feel guilty for not being a cog (including yourself ). I, like Guy Debord, have an "immense lack of ambition" . Paul

Most cultures don't encourage a non-productive model of existence because they don't work. If no one does any work, nothing gets done. If nothing gets done, you don't have much of a culture.

 

But as long as you can remain self-reliant, that's enough.

 

I know a few New Age people who are "too spiritual" (ungrounded) to work. Funny how they all have no problem living off handouts (inheritance, sponsorships, etc) from those who do actual work though. In short, all they did was pass the buck & hard work to others. Not a sustainable societal model.

 

I believe Wang Liping trained while still working as a factory worker. So, operating in the mundane world and spiritual realm are not mutually-exclusive. In fact, integrating & balancing the 2 is a "spiritual" challenge in itself. Hence, in Zen monasteries, they make the most mundane acts "spiritual."

 

If you can make sweeping a floor "spiritual," why not accounting or fixing a car too?

[Enishi]

Balancing out spiritual work with mundane work is easier IME if you're doing more repetitive types of mundane physical work with your hands. I've actually gotten quite a bit of good KAP work in while walking through the hallways pushing stuff at my job.

[Birch]

Yeah, I agree that what we do for a living is a very important part of the way. Need I say "Goldman Sachs..?" In fact THAT topic would be a good one to (try) to get through on here.

 

I would also suggest considering "work" rather than "a job". Lots of "work" doesn't involve having "a job" at all (with just one employer, I mean).

 

In addition, many "jobs" will require specific degrees and diplomas - which is why it might be a good idea to get one as soon as possible so you don't get caught out later when it might be useful to show you have one, but preferably one with very transferable skills like research skills, social interaction, critical thinking, and I'm sure there are other suggestions.

 

Each profession has it's own game rules. Being self-employed also has game rules but they are a bit different. If you become an employer, it gets different again.

 

Concerning the ethics of what you choose, it might not be immediately obvious. Temple Grandin apparently worked to make dying less frightening and painful for animals in slaughter houses? Imagining onself as being to some extent outside a system. Or working against one in some way could also be an option. Of course some people do that with varying degrees of success. See Pietro's eco-war post and the comment about "handouts".

 

"Sprituality" IMO should allow you to grow wings, a spine, balls (uh, for the guys;-) us girls have other stuff) and a heart with your feet firmly on the ground in reality.

[gendao]

"Sprituality" IMO should allow you to grow wings, a spine, balls (uh, for the guys;-) us girls have other stuff) and a heart with your feet firmly on the ground in reality.

I agree. Isn't spirituality about expanding your viewpoint...not shirking responsibility or escapism?

 

As the Zen saying goes:

Before Enlightenment, chop wood carry water.

After Enlightenment, chop wood carry water.

Whats the difference? The tasks are the same. The need is the same. What about the frame of mind? Who is chopping? Who is carrying water?

 

When you labor, stay awake. Notice the frame of mind you bring to your work. Do you approach your work as if it were a nuisance? Do you remove your consciousness from work so that you are filled with resentment or worry? What would you need to do to be more fully present in your work?

 

Practice mindfulness in work. It does little good to attain clarity of mind on your meditation cushion if you lose it as soon as you become active. Start with simple activities like brushing your teeth, ironing clothes, or washing dishes. Be fully alert as you move. Notice the position of your body in space. Notice the feelings in your body as you move. Pay attention to the thoughts that enter your mind when you do the task. See if you can let them go and just focus on the work itself.

 

If you are cleaning a countertop, feel the sponge in your hand. Feel the wetness. Feel the texture. Observe how the sponge moves in your hand from the sink to the counter. Sense your movements as you scrub. What do your eyes see? What do you hear as you work? Clean that countertop as if it were the most important thing you could do. Move with fluid motions. Waste no energy. Allow yourself the grace of economy of motion. Be grateful for the countertop, the sponge, the water, the soap. Be grateful for the hand, the arm, the whole body that can move a sponge. Be thankful for the floor you stand on and the roof that protects you. Without letting your mind wander too far, be grateful for all the circumstances that put you where you are at that moment with that sponge and that water and that countertop.

 

We travel to the ocean or to mountains, rivers and canyons, in part to escape the mundane world of work, but also to experience the awe that arises more spontaneously in natures magnificence. We give ourselves an incredible gift when we can experience some of the same awe in the mundane world of our daily lives. The weed that grows in the crack of a sidewalk is a phenomenon as miraculous as the redwood tree that towers into the sky. The raindrops that streak the window are no less an occasion for awe than the spray that dampens our face at the waterfall. The fingers that tap a keyboard are as worthy of praise as the feet of a ballet dancer.

 

When we open awareness to the tasks in our lives they become lighter. When we are able to be in the moment, we no longer feel compelled to watch the clock. Whatever your work might be, bring all of yourself to it. When you are fully present, you may find that your labor is no longer a burden. Wood is chopped. Water is carried. Life happens.

Where is the drudgery? In the task at hand...or in your mind?

 

BTW, I'm not saying not to go off and become a wizard or healer if that is your path. I know some people who did that and are very successful at it too. My point is that if you can't reach that point yet, make whatever you can do in the meantime as "spiritual" and enjoyable as you can. Try redefining your work, instead of letting it define you.

Edited May 7, 2010 by vortex

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Most cultures don't encourage a non-productive model of existence because they don't work. If no one does any work, nothing gets done. If nothing gets done, you don't have much of a culture.

 

But as long as you can remain self-reliant, that's enough.

 

I know a few New Age people who are "too spiritual" (ungrounded) to work. Funny how they all have no problem living off handouts (inheritance, sponsorships, etc) from those who do actual work though. In short, all they did was pass the buck & hard work to others. Not a sustainable societal model.

 

I believe Wang Liping trained while still working as a factory worker. So, operating in the mundane world and spiritual realm are not mutually-exclusive. In fact, integrating & balancing the 2 is a "spiritual" challenge in itself. Hence, in Zen monasteries, they make the most mundane acts "spiritual."

 

If you can make sweeping a floor "spiritual," why not accounting or fixing a car too?

 

Beautiful point!

I'm loving this response!

[Guest paul walter]

Most cultures don't encourage a non-productive model of existence because they don't work. If no one does any work, nothing gets done. If nothing gets done, you don't have much of a culture.

 

But as long as you can remain self-reliant, that's enough.

 

I know a few New Age people who are "too spiritual" (ungrounded) to work. Funny how they all have no problem living off handouts (inheritance, sponsorships, etc) from those who do actual work though. In short, all they did was pass the buck & hard work to others. Not a sustainable societal model.

 

I believe Wang Liping trained while still working as a factory worker. So, operating in the mundane world and spiritual realm are not mutually-exclusive. In fact, integrating & balancing the 2 is a "spiritual" challenge in itself. Hence, in Zen monasteries, they make the most mundane acts "spiritual."

 

If you can make sweeping a floor "spiritual," why not accounting or fixing a car too?

 

 

 

I agree with most of what you say here, but thought that I'd chip in with the 'alternative' view to the capitalist model since no-one else will. There are many many risks to the model everyone is offering the young lad--how come no-one is talking about them (I imagine cause there is so little true alternative to the so-called mainstream). I don't think there are many Wang Lipings out there-they probably all got stuck doing the night shift at McDonalds and had to give up the rest?... Paul.

[Mal]

[~jK~]

Hey guys!

 

This probably isn't in the right section... but I really look up to you guys and would appreciate any input.

 

Thanks everyone -- you guys are awesome.

 

 

Hi Fat - don't worry - there will be a new military draft before long and you can go see the world for free! Just wait and see !

 

If you join now - you can go into the Navy where they have good food. - Later all Navy dudes get side swiped into the Marines where they teach you which parts of bugs is tasty

[~jK~]

Hey guys!

 

This probably isn't in the right section... but I really look up to you guys and would appreciate any input.

 

I finished school late last year and STILL haven't even had a job. Going to be 19 in July. I do realise that this is due largely to laziness... but I have been unable to identify any career path that would even slightly interest me in going down... nothing I have found resonates with me in any way. All besides spirituality -- but I am no Guru and have no profound knowledge. Like many I am but a complete beginner at this too. Currently there is pretty much zero direction in my life and as a result there is next to zero motivation for even doing anything about it.

 

It would be great if you guys could help me out one way or another; suggest a direction, help me out of this irksome psychological pit, etc... any advice of any kind.

 

Thanks everyone -- you guys are awesome.

 

[ralis]

Go to college and get a broad education. If you live in the US that's pretty much mandatory since all schools have requirements, but take classes you find interesting and explore. Getting a Bachelors (and perhaps even a Masters) is a necessity these days for a decent non-physical labor job.

 

I'm just graduating and possibly will go for a PhD in Religion or maybe go to acupuncture school. I have no clue as of yet. Prior to college I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do so at least now I have some direction due to all the exposure i've had during college to various topics. So I really suggest you go to college. Go to a good one. The level of academic rigor at crappy schools will bother you if you're serious about learning.

 

Excellent advice! I spent seven years in college and loved every minute of it. Including 50 hrs. of math. LOL!

 

I always encourage my employees to further their education and better themselves in some way.

 

Are you interested in 5 element acupuncture? There are several good schools in the U.S. that teach 5 element. Probably the best system.

 

 

ralis

[Cloudhand]

That is taking control good job Sifu. I worked as a Med Tech in the late 60s and early 70s. Cloud

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Bumpin'

[Thunder_Gooch]

If I could go back I'd bust my ass and become a pharmacist. They can work 2 days per week still make apx $40,000 per year. Everyone says to do what you love doing, but if what you love doing doesn't pay the bills that isn't going to work out in the real world.

[Guest paul walter]

If I could go back I'd bust my ass and become a pharmacist. They can work 2 days per week still make apx $40,000 per year. Everyone says to do what you love doing, but if what you love doing doesn't pay the bills that isn't going to work out in the real world.

 

 

Problem is you'd probably go to hell from all the people you killed (inadvertently, of course!) Paul

[Thunder_Gooch]

Problem is you'd probably go to hell from all the people you killed (inadvertently, of course!) Paul

 

I'm probably going to hell anyway, I've killed several people this year alone. I sell people booze, and we've had several customers die in car wrecks drunk, a few die of cirrhosis of the liver, a few of lung cancer from all the cigarettes we sell them. I take all their money for lottery scratch off tickets, money I know should be feeding their 4 kids, but I take it anyway, hundreds of dollars each day from individual customers. I feed peoples addictions, I sell them booze, cigarettes, energy pills, lottery, junk food, I help them destroy themselves and their families. Maybe I will move to the city and get a better job as a computer tech, sometime soon. What I do for a living really eats at my conscience.

Edited June 12, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Eric23]

Interesting reading. After 30 years in my chosen field, at the same company it all came to an end last week. I happen to have worked in a sector of the economy and in a state that was decimated the worst. In a way it's a relief, was getting burned out, and the handwriting was on the wall for several months now . However I find myself needing to re-invent myself. Although I only have 5 - 10 years until retirement, I would really like to find something worthwhile. There are some safety nets in place, so the situation is not desperate. At my age another degree may not pay off, although a certificate program may be a great benefit. Companies don't seem to like hiring old farts, so some sort of entrepreneurial endeavor may be the answer. Planning on taking the summer off, working on stillness (and my art) and see what comes up.

 

Anyway a different perspective from the recent high school grad wondering what to do with his/her life.

[Mal]

Companies don't seem to like hiring old farts, so some sort of entrepreneurial endeavor may be the answer.

 

Perhaps not, there has been a big push (i.e. government TV advertising campaign ) in Australia to rehire the "Grey" i.e. older workforce. Lots of skills and life experience as opposed to having to train up staff that are going to move onto better things with their new skills.

 

My Dad retired a few years back but with the GEC lost most of his retirement money with shares devaluing to a point where he could no longer live on their income, so he has gone back to work at 65. He works as a trainer now in the electricity industry, teaching what he use to do 20 years ago. Went from a self employed "hobby" building fishing rods, to temporary teaching for the same electricity company he use to work for previously. Found out a job was going and now working full time again.

 

He though that his age would be an issue. In private industry it might have been, but not an issue for big government organisations. Finding jobs comes from networking, there is a reason that terms like nepotism and jobs for the boys exist But honestly if someone knows you and likes what you do vs hiring a new person, who looks good on paper, but might turn out to be a tool that nobody can get along with.

 

So use those life skills - perhaps it's a sign that you could step up your artistic activities and also get some pocket money from what you already love doing

 

 

MPG - while I could agree with your assessment of your industry.... if you honestly feel that way you should get out for your own sake. I was buying some beer on Friday afternoon after work at a big chain bottle shop. I don't usually go shopping at that time. WOW! what a mind opener. Talk about legalizing drug addiction. SO many people and SO much money, just to disconnect and escape from a mundane life. Although another way to frame it it would be bringing entertainment, release from troubles, and some much needed happiness to the population.