The bridge is flowing, the water is not

[Mark Foote]

The buddhist monk Fuxi wrote a poem in about the fifth century C.E. that went like this:

 

An empty hand grasps the hoe-handle

Walking along, I ride the ox

The ox crosses the wooden bridge

The bridge is flowing, the water is still

 

I have been corresponding with John (apepch7) about some of the ancient Egyptian symbols, and in the course of our exchange I came up with this explanation of the Egyptian ankh and the last line of Fuxi's poem:

 

"For me, the key is the notion that the place of occurrence of consciousness leads the balance of the body, and so has impact on the fascial stretch that is in existence as consciousness takes place. The stretch of fascia can generate nerve impulses that cause muscles to contract, so there is action as a result of balance as consciousness takes place; this is usually subtle, amounting to no more than our normal postural adjustments and our preconscious reactions to sudden sensory overload.

 

In Tai-Chi, the single-weight posture shows us the movement out of fascial stretch. At least, I think it does! When I get all my weight on one leg, I feel the arrow in the stretched bow wanting to fly in the other direction, so to speak. If I relax, the movements flow out of the postures.

 

In one of my writings I describe the place of occurrence of consciousness as a tool used by the two autonomic respirations to initiate the activity necessary to open feeling from the spine through the body to the skin and hair. I make this description because I know that at some point in my practice, volition in the body affecting the movement of breath ceases, and instead the activity of the body appears to be just part of the breath.

 

In the lotus, the stretches induced by the cranial-sacral rhythm at the sacrum are brought forward, but they are there in any upright posture; these stretches generate activity that allows the whole body to be a part of the movement of the breath in, and of the movement of the breath out. This might be the meaning of the ankh (an Egyptian symbol); the activity generated by the cranial-sacral rhythm enters into the activity of breath (the ankh resembles the cross-section of a spinal vertebrae; in one painting, the ankh projects from the palm of the goddess Isis toward the nose of Queen Nefertari).

 

The mind moves, and activity and feeling follow. Because the occurrence of mind, of consciousness, has impact on the fascial stretch, there is a bridge (the "bridge" is the fascial stretch that the weight of the body impacts with the occurrence of consciousness). Because the occurrence of consciousness is freed as feeling is opened, the process is self-enabling, and the bridge "flows". Because the activity necessary to breath can now be generated from the place of occurrence of consciousness, without the habitual exercise of volition, the undercurrent of volitive activity is cut off. Hence, the bridge is flowing, the water is not."

 

 

I wanted to offer my explanation to everybody as a starting place for talking about Fuxi's poem, even though it's a little long.

 

Hopefully this is about Taoism, as well as Buddhism (and Egyptianism, for that matter); I look forward to hearing what everybody has to say, and thanks to the authors of Tao Bums for making it possible!

Edited May 5, 2010 by Mark Foote

[Cloudhand]

The buddhist monk Fuxi wrote a poem in about the fifth century C.E. that went like this:

 

An empty hand grasps the hoe-handle

Walking along, I ride the ox

The ox crosses the wooden bridge

The bridge is flowing, the water is still

 

I have been corresponding with John (apepch7) about some of the ancient Egyptian symbols, and in the course of our exchange I came up with this explanation of the Egyptian ankh and the last line of Fuxi's poem:

 

"For me, the key is the notion that the place of occurrence of consciousness leads the balance of the body, and so has impact on the fascial stretch that is in existence as consciousness takes place. The stretch of fascia can generate nerve impulses that cause muscles to contract, so there is action as a result of balance as consciousness takes place; this is usually subtle, amounting to no more than our normal postural adjustments and our preconscious reactions to sudden sensory overload.

 

In Tai-Chi, the single-weight posture shows us the movement out of fascial stretch. At least, I think it does! When I get all my weight on one leg, I feel the arrow in the stretched bow wanting to fly in the other direction, so to speak. If I relax, the movements flow out of the postures.

 

In one of my writings I describe the place of occurrence of consciousness as a tool used by the two autonomic respirations to initiate the activity necessary to open feeling from the spine through the body to the skin and hair. I make this description because I know that at some point in my practice, volition in the body affecting the movement of breath ceases, and instead the activity of the body appears to be just part of the breath.

 

In the lotus, the stretches induced by the cranial-sacral rhythm at the sacrum are brought forward, but they are there in any upright posture; these stretches generate activity that allows the whole body to be a part of the movement of the breath in, and of the movement of the breath out. This might be the meaning of the ankh (an Egyptian symbol); the activity generated by the cranial-sacral rhythm enters into the activity of breath (the ankh resembles the cross-section of a spinal vertebrae; in one painting, the ankh projects from the palm of the goddess Isis toward the nose of Queen Nefertari).

 

The mind moves, and activity and feeling follow. Because the occurrence of mind, of consciousness, has impact on the fascial stretch, there is a bridge (the "bridge" is the fascial stretch that the weight of the body impacts with the occurrence of consciousness). Because the occurrence of consciousness is freed as feeling is opened, the process is self-enabling, and the bridge "flows". Because the activity necessary to breath can now be generated from the place of occurrence of consciousness, without the habitual exercise of volition, the undercurrent of volitive activity is cut off. Hence, the bridge is flowing, the water is not."

 

 

I wanted to offer my explanation to everybody as a starting place for talking about Fuxi's poem, even though it's a little long.

 

Hopefully this is about Taoism, as well as Buddhism (and Egyptianism, for that matter); I look forward to hearing what everybody has to say, and thanks to the authors of Tao Bums for making it possible!

 

 

This is Seijaku stillness when many things are going on. Cloudhand

[3bob]

it is moving so very, very fast that it standing still everywhere at once

[Birch]

Cool!

 

I was considering that this might be one of the reasons that "internal" practitioners also often improve what would be considered "externals" as well. I'm not good enough technically but I've noticed qi-gong has actually improved my muscle tone.

 

So perhaps such "micro-movements" are at play here. What really gets interesting for me is the subtlety and range of such "micro-movements" - I'm referring back to that post about building a skyscraper 1 sheet of paper at a time. If we consider neural "pathways" and the idea that ideas and thoughts can actually effect "physical" changes in the brain (wherever we determine it is housed;-)) then I believe such practices may be better examined by westerners from that standpoint, rather than confusing them with ideas like "chi" and certain symbols that do not have currency for them (or that cannot point to "universals")

 

This eludes the "spirit" world, which I still wonder about.

[Mark Foote]

Cool!

 

I was considering that this might be one of the reasons that "internal" practitioners also often improve what would be considered "externals" as well. I'm not good enough technically but I've noticed qi-gong has actually improved my muscle tone.

 

So perhaps such "micro-movements" are at play here. What really gets interesting for me is the subtlety and range of such "micro-movements" - I'm referring back to that post about building a skyscraper 1 sheet of paper at a time. If we consider neural "pathways" and the idea that ideas and thoughts can actually effect "physical" changes in the brain (wherever we determine it is housed;-)) then I believe such practices may be better examined by westerners from that standpoint, rather than confusing them with ideas like "chi" and certain symbols that do not have currency for them (or that cannot point to "universals")

 

This eludes the "spirit" world, which I still wonder about.

 

Thanks, Cloudhand, 3bob, and Kate, for your thoughts. Kate, I agree about the neural changes. Yuanwu and Foyan, two 12th century Chan teachers, both talk about an interval of twenty to thirty years after the initial settling-in before an individual can be of any use to others. I think that's about building neural pathways.

 

For myself, I started writing thinking I had something to offer others, and then I slowly realized it was really about offering to myself. This morning I find I am excited about my letter to John, which is the basis of this thread, and as a consequence the focus on the place the mind comes to rest is barely with me. Slowly, I recall everything I've ever written about the posture, and I return to the thing I wrote in my first essay on the web, "the mudra of zen"; motion in three directions, reflected in the activity where the little fingers touch the abdomen, and in the stretch behind the sacrum that allows the cranial-sacral rhythm to move the sacrum forward. Over and over, the same aspects of coordination, and to let the mind be the tool of the two rhythms is still a leap; there's something about the amygdala, the emotional brain, that requires a great deal of experience in connection with balance and activity I think. I love the book "emotional intelligence", by Daniel Goleman; here's an article on the amygdala that I found (scanning quickly) if you're interested:

 

oxfordjournals amygdala article

 

I'd also like to alert everybody to my animation of the relationships I describe in my letter to John; that would be here:

 

animation, "The Bridge is Flowing"

 

'morning, all.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Mark Foote

[gendao]

Slowly, I recall everything I've ever written about the posture, and I return to the thing I wrote in my first essay on the web, "the mudra of zen"; motion in three directions, reflected in the activity where the little fingers touch the abdomen, and in the stretch behind the sacrum that allows the cranial-sacral rhythm to move the sacrum forward. Over and over, the same aspects of coordination, and to let the mind be the tool of the two rhythms is still a leap; there's something about the amygdala, the emotional brain, that requires a great deal of experience in connection with balance and activity I think.

 

I'd also like to alert everybody to my animation of the relationships I describe in my letter to John; that would be here:

 

animation, "The Bridge is Flowing"

Cool animation dude!

 

Yea, sitting meditation has really helped open & increase my awareness of my whole kua (pelvis). Which I think is the point of sitting meditation because it is such a big & key junction in the body. This is about as "core" as it gets! The spine joins into it at the sacroiliac joint & the femurs join in by the sitz bones. Powerful ligaments tie in here & it normally gets very tight & fused up. As a result, it takes a lot of time & effort to open it up.

But continued practice allows you to slowly stretch it open & find the proper micro-alignments most conducive to better qi flow. You are basically realigning yourself at your core's core here.

 

For example, my pelvis has been tilted back on one side & I'm at the point now where I can feel the extra soreness & strain from my hamstring attachment there - because it is getting stretched farther due to the tilt. I'm hoping that this will actually realign my pelvis & pull it back into place, though. So, we'll see...

Edited May 6, 2010 by vortex

[Mark Foote]

Cool animation dude!

 

Yea, sitting meditation has really helped open & increase my awareness of my whole kua (pelvis). Which I think is the point of sitting meditation because it is such a big & key junction in the body. This is about as "core" as it gets! The spine joins into it at the sacroiliac joint & the femurs join in by the sitz bones. Powerful ligaments tie in here & it normally gets very tight & fused up. As a result, it takes a lot of time & effort to open it up.

 

But continued practice allows you to slowly stretch it open & find the proper micro-alignments most conducive to better qi flow. You are basically realigning yourself at your core's core here.

 

For example, my pelvis has been tilted back on one side & I'm at the point now where I can feel the extra soreness & strain from my hamstring attachment there - because it is getting stretched farther due to the tilt. I'm hoping that this will actually realign my pelvis & pull it back into place, though. So, we'll see...

 

In Tai-chi they talk about tenacious strength, as opposed to muscular strength. I think this has to do with the angonist-antagonist pairings of muscle groups/ligaments & fascia. Sinking into the posture stretches the fascia and the fascia generates nerve impulses to cause muscles to contract to relieve the stretch. The "reciprocal innervation" from side to side as ligaments stretch, contract muscles for relief, stretch on the other side, and contract muscles for relief I suspect strengthens the ligaments and fascia over time. That would be another reason it takes a lot of years once we let go of using strength to develop the coordination and posture that supports "putting the cranial-sacral rhythm into the breath"; let me see if I can find that picture of Isis and Nefertari to add. Ah, here it is:

 

Edited May 7, 2010 by Mark Foote

[gendao]

In Tai-chi they talk about tenacious strength, as opposed to muscular strength. I think this has to do with the angonist-antagonist pairings of muscle groups/ligaments & fascia. Sinking into the posture stretches the fascia and the fascia generates nerve impulses to cause muscles to contract to relieve the stretch. The "reciprocal innervation" from side to side as ligaments stretch, contract muscles for relief, stretch on the other side, and contract muscles for relief I suspect strengthens the ligaments and fascia over time.

Kadour Ziani - one of the world's foremost dunkers with a 56" vertical...says he only does bodyweight exercises & stretches 4 HOURS per day!!!

Kadour Ziani Mix and Interview

Written by Greg

Tuesday, 21 November 2006

 

White men can't jump, short guys can't dunk, jump decays with age. These are some of the generalizations we make about dunking, but just about every generalization is shattered by Kadour Ziani. Like wine, Ziani has only gotten better with age, defying injury and constantly striving to new heights. He is recognized throughout the world for his amazing dunks, such as the double windmill, the 360s over people, and the "kick the rim".

 

Ziani is best known as one of the pioneers of Slam Nation. He traveled around the world showing his ability and building a very large fan base in the process. Some of his greatest highlights include winning the 2005 French All Star Game Slam Dunk Contest, and beating And 1 at halftime during their European Tour.

 

But Ziani isn't just a dunker, he is an amazing athlete. He played goalkeeper in a professional soccer league, he cleared 7'3" in the high jump, and he possesses jaw dropping flexibility. In an exclusive interview with Flying101.net, Ziani, now 33, shares his views on dunking and life...

 

Q: What is the secret behind your amazing jumping ability?

A: The definition of talent is someone who uses the time, the natural clock. Everyday, I stretch about 4 hours. People go to the gym and do the hard stuff, lifting weights, but they don't bother to do the easy stuff, like stretching, and then they go home and destroy all their hard work with the bad food they eat. It is a dedication of a lifetime. Dunking is a way of life. Everywhere I go, I adapt, I am a camilian. I don't have a gym or a playground, so I work with whatever I have. When I train, I train with death, I am ready to die whenever I dunk. Life is so precious, you have to savor every second. But life is also like a motorcycle, it is dangerous, so I accept that I may die with every dunk. Other people train hard, but no one trains with death like me.

 

Q: What is the significance of stretching in your training?

A: Stretching is like elastic energy. I use elastic energy for my jump. It's like a rubber band, the more you stretch it, the farther it goes.

 

Q: How has nature played a big role in your life?

A: My first teachers of life weren't humans, they were animals. Animals were my example. I used to get jealous of birds because they could fly. But I tried to imitate animals, like swinging from a tree like a monkey. Nature is my first home.

 

Q: Explain some of your philosophies behind eating right?

A: You have to eat right, you cannot poison your body with bad food. It is very important. One of the main fights in trying to get better is the fight with yourself. You have to be able to control your appetite.

 

Q: What would you say to people who want to jump like you?

A: Anyone can jump like me, I naturally don't have a lot of talent. Well maybe I have some, but I worked all my life. Dunking has been my way of life. It is my primitive language. If people work as hard as me, they could jump as high and as long as me. But nobody wants to work.

 

Q: What is the significance of a dunk to you?

A: For me, every dunk attempt is amazing, any height, whether it is a miss or make. Dunking is a person vs himself, not anyone else. The rim is like a persons limit, and to try to break it is amazing.

 

Q: Why is Charlie Chaplin important to you?

A: Charlie was a man who lead by example. He didn't have to talk. That's my philosophy, I don't like to talk, I want to lead by example. You can talk big, and have people come to see what you're talking about, but you have to back it up. Charlie Chaplin was able to use silence.

 

Q: Who else is a role model that stands out in your mind?

A: Marie Curie. Everybody thought she was crazy because for years she was studying something everybody told her was worthless. Then one day she discovered radium. She should be an example because instead of people talking big, they should silently work on whatever they are doing, perfect it, then one day show their stuff. Everyone will say, "wow"! is that the same guy?

 

Q: You're big on philosophy. Outside of religion, who or what are some people you study?

A: Heigle, Einstein, Bernard Werber, the Da Vinci Code.

 

Q: What dunker was a big influence for you growing up?

A: Spud Webb, because he showed the short people that dunking was possible.

 

Q: To you, what makes a great dunker?

A: You can make a crazy dunk once, okay. But can you do that for years? For me, I've done my dunks 17 years, the double windmill for over 10 years. How many other people can you say that about. For me, I want to see someone dunk for many many years, not someone who does a crazy dunk and gets fat. A lot of people say I should do more dunks, but I don't need to. I am trying to copy myself. Copy myself for 17 years.

That would be another reason it takes a lot of years once we let go of using strength to develop the coordination and posture that supports "putting the cranial-sacral rhythm into the breath"; let me see if I can find that picture of Isis and Nefertari to add. Ah, here it is:

Maybe it was autosuggestion from reading this thread yesterday, but I thought I felt a sacral pumping while I was sitting in half-lotus this morning. It caused a very slight, gentle (forwards & back) rocking with a very light "pumping" action. Which I don't think was my heartbeat.

 

Anyhow, I want to try some craniosacral therapy now!

Your skull is composed of 29 small, moveable bones. The bones move against each other along sutures or a type of joint. These bones move as you breathe. As they move, they pump your cerebral spinal fluid (CSF) through and around your brain and spinal cord.

 

The basis or keystone of the human structure is the pelvis. The pelvis supports the spine and skull, the shoulders and arms and, below the pelvis, the legs and feet. The internal organs are suspended by ligaments that attach to the spine and pelvis. The large upper thigh and important back muscles, including those responsible for neck and shoulder stability, are all attached to the pelvis.

 

There is a minute regular pulsing rhythmic motion between the occiput and the sacrum that circulates the CSF around the brain and spinal cord and throughout the nervous system.

 

The sacral pump is the circulatory system of the brain and spinal cord and its function is paramount to normal health. This pulsing motion takes place every four seconds.

 

Things that shouldn't really matter will create structural changes and sometimes pain to the spine and pelvis affecting balance and stability of the sacro-occipital pump.

 

When your sacrum becomes imbalanced, it can create an imbalance in the skull and visa versa. This can interfere with the flow of CSF. And because your brain runs your body, problems can be created almost anywhere in your body if any of the bones of your skull shift or move out of place.

 

By removing stress between the cranial bones, the sutural motion normalizes the relationship of one bone to another. This allows for remodeling of the entire craniosacral system and enhances its function and improves its capacity for adaptation.

Now there are pumps in the body. One very important one is the sacral pump. When moving chi from the perineum to the coccyx it helps to activate the sacral pump. It pumps sexual force up the spine and transforms the energy at the same time.

 

The sacral pump is activated by humping -- i.e., moving the sacrum down and then pulling it up.

 

There's also a cranial pump in the back of the head. A sexual master activates both to pull the chi to the brain.

So, you can see how misalignment in your pelvis...can impede your sacral pumping...depriving your brain of CSF...which can then cause bodily dysfunctions anywhere else in your body. And by the same token, cranial misalignments can also cause the same problems in the reverse direction.

 

It thus makes sense why Eastern alchemy would focus heavily on opening the kua & also later, the cranial sutures (phowa).

Edited May 7, 2010 by vortex

[Mark Foote]

Kadour Ziani - one of the world's foremost dunkers with a 56" vertical...says he only does bodyweight exercises & stretches 4 HOURS per day!!!Maybe it was autosuggestion from reading this thread yesterday, but I thought I felt a sacral pumping while I was sitting in half-lotus this morning. It caused a very slight, gentle (forwards & back) rocking with a very light "pumping" action. Which I don't think was my heartbeat.

 

Anyhow, I want to try some craniosacral therapy now!So, you can see how misalignment in your pelvis...can impede your sacral pumping...depriving your brain of CSF...which can then cause bodily dysfunctions anywhere else in your body. And by the same token, cranial misalignments can also cause the same problems in the reverse direction.

 

It thus makes sense why Eastern alchemy would focus heavily on opening the kua & also later, the cranial sutures (phowa).

 

I know that John Upledger trains people to use the weight of a nickle to open the cranial sacral rhythm in places where it's stuck. The idea is that a trained practitioner can feel the places where the rhythm is moving well, add a little more movement in the right place, and the hydraulics of it will open movement in the places that are stuck.

 

I am hoping I get the same effect by following my consciousness in the lotus, and doing nothing intentional.

 

The sense of motion at the sacrum, and of stretches that generate activity, is how I am able to sit the lotus. Nothing fancy, usually 40 minutes in the morning and 20-30 minutes at night, but that's very impressive for a guy that couldn't even sit with his legs crossed thirty years ago and had to study anatomy and many other things to learn it.

 

good luck with the healing, hope you find a way or a practitioner who can help with that!

[Mark Foote]

I know that John Upledger trains people to use the weight of a nickle to open the cranial sacral rhythm in places where it's stuck. The idea is that a trained practitioner can feel the places where the rhythm is moving well, add a little more movement in the right place, and the hydraulics of it will open movement in the places that are stuck.

 

I am hoping I get the same effect by following my consciousness in the lotus, and doing nothing intentional.

 

The sense of motion at the sacrum, and of stretches that generate activity, is how I am able to sit the lotus. Nothing fancy, usually 40 minutes in the morning and 20-30 minutes at night, but that's very impressive for a guy that couldn't even sit with his legs crossed thirty years ago and had to study anatomy and many other things to learn it.

 

good luck with the healing, hope you find a way or a practitioner who can help with that!

 

 

Fun, fun, fun!

Edited May 23, 2010 by Mark Foote

[Marblehead]

BTW,

 

Returning to reality, the water is flowing, the bridge is not. (Although some bridges do flow if the water geets too high and forceful.)

 

Peace & Love!

[Mark Foote]

BTW,

 

Returning to reality, the water is flowing, the bridge is not. (Although some bridges do flow if the water geets too high and forceful.)

 

Peace & Love!

 

"Reality is more what you'd call "guidelines"...

 

(a slight rephrase of Captain Barbossa's line "...the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules", from The Curse of the Black Pearl)

 

Nice to hear from you!

[Apech]

BTW,

 

Returning to reality, the water is flowing, the bridge is not. (Although some bridges do flow if the water geets too high and forceful.)

 

Peace & Love!

 

Relativity mate ... Mr. Einstein was hot on this subject and was a scientist.

[Marblehead]

"Reality is more what you'd call "guidelines"...

 

(a slight rephrase of Captain Barbossa's line "...the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules", from The Curse of the Black Pearl)

 

Nice to hear from you!

 

Thanks. It was nice having a chance to talk with you.

 

Yes, guidelines. Normal conditions. If we are lying belly-up in the water and the flow is so gentle that we cannot feel its movement then when we pass under the bridge it is likely that we would say "A bridge just passed over me."

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Relativity mate ... Mr. Einstein was hot on this subject and was a scientist.

 

Yep. Everything is relative. (Our Buddhist friends should enjoy hearing me say that. Hehehe.)

 

But even Albert was wrong on occasion and admitted to it whenever he realized it.

 

Yes, the bridge is moving because it is in a stationary position on the earth are the earth is rotating around the sun. So I agree, if viewed from any position other than on earth the bridge is in fact moving. But, if viewed from a stationary position standing on earth close to the bridge then the bridge is not moving but the water is.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

Yep. Everything is relative. (Our Buddhist friends should enjoy hearing me say that. Hehehe.)

 

But even Albert was wrong on occasion and admitted to it whenever he realized it.

 

Yes, the bridge is moving because it is in a stationary position on the earth are the earth is rotating around the sun. So I agree, if viewed from any position other than on earth the bridge is in fact moving. But, if viewed from a stationary position standing on earth close to the bridge then the bridge is not moving but the water is.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Ahem.

 

At the risk of being a smart-ass ....

 

In relativistic theory if you take the water as the frame of reference then the bridge is moving. There is no such thing as a stationary position because there is no absolute frame of reference - all are equally valid - as demonstrated by the Michelson- Morley experiment.

 

John

B.Sc. (Hons) Physics 1974 Manchester University.

[Marblehead]

Ahem.

 

At the risk of being a smart-ass ....

 

In relativistic theory if you take the water as the frame of reference then the bridge is moving. There is no such thing as a stationary position because there is no absolute frame of reference - all are equally valid - as demonstrated by the Michelson- Morley experiment.

 

John

B.Sc. (Hons) Physics 1974 Manchester University.

 

 

No fear on the SA thing, okay?

 

True what you said. Even the wave over from your position in the water will be moving relative to your position.

 

BA Accounting, UNF. Didn't help me at all in this conversation. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Mark Foote]

No fear on the SA thing, okay?

 

True what you said. Even the wave over from your position in the water will be moving relative to your position.

 

BA Accounting, UNF. Didn't help me at all in this conversation. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

you guys are weirdos.

 

BS mathematics, UCSC 1972. Love ya!

Edited May 24, 2010 by Mark Foote

[Mark Foote]

No fear on the SA thing, okay?

 

True what you said. Even the wave over from your position in the water will be moving relative to your position.

 

BA Accounting, UNF. Didn't help me at all in this conversation. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

 

but about that bridge; here's Shunryu Suzuki from David Chadwick's Crooked Cucumber site (wonderful interviews with the early SF Zen Center guinea pigs, who bore the brunt of the difficulties of the start-up institution):

 

"When you see something, you may think that you are watching something else [outside yourself]. But, actually, you are watching your mudra or your toe. That is why zazen practice represents the whole universe. We should do zazen with this feeling in our practice. You should not say, "I practice zazen with my body." It is not so.

 

Dogen-zenji says, "Water does not flow, but the bridge flows." You may say that your mind is practicing zazen and ignore your body, the practice of your body. Sometimes when you think that you are doing zazen with an imperturbable mind, you ignore the body, but it is also necessary to have the opposite understanding at the same time. Your body is practicing zazen in imperturbability while your mind is moving."

 

Don't think it was Dogen, it was Fuxi in 6th century C.E. China. Mind is moving describes the way consciousness moves the balance of the body, simply by taking place; I don't experience the mind as moving until the mind is a part of the breathing and the balance, but this is as close as dropping the mind and body. The water is still is the difficult thing to describe; I think this is a description of how volitive action, willful action normally affects the movement of breath, but when the mind is a part of the breathing and the balance, then the movement of breath effects the location of mind, as it were. The bridge is moving, yo.

 

You can walk on the bridge, Marblehead, but you'd best make like an ox. Here's my song:

 

walk like an oxen

bark like a dog

forget about romance

and roll like a log

 

that's what it takes, to keep a love alive;

that's what it takes, to keep a love alive.

 

maybe someday I'll get a chance to sing it for you, ha ha. My girl is laughin' at me for chuckling to myself, that's a good thing!

Edited May 24, 2010 by Mark Foote

[sifusufi]

Something like this... Borrowed from Micheal Starbird

 

Zeno and his various paradoxes of motion. To recap the paradox of an arrow flying through the air: if that motion is divided into infinitely smaller and smaller increments of time and distance, in what sense can we say the arrow is "moving" at all? How can a single instant have an actual "speed"? Philosophers can be so tedious sometimes. For all practical purposes, calculus resolves that paradox, and thanks to Michael Starbird's spiffy DVD calculus course, I now have a reasonable grasp of how it does this. (Yay me!) On the whole, Starbird keeps things reasonably simple. He began with the most basic example. Since the derivative is a measure of change -- how temperature changes, how the Dow Jones average changes, etc. -- the most basic example is motion: change in position with respect to time. So Starbird envisions Zeno driving a car (Jen-Luc points out it should really be a chariot, but we'll grant Starbird some artistic license) along a straight road at a steady unchanging speed, and in the process, running a stop sign. As luck would have it, Officers Newton and Leibniz are on duty and pull Zeno over. Zeno denies he ran the stop sign. As proof, he presents the officers with a time-stamped still photo taken of the car just before its nose passed the stop sign. How can they prove the car was moving at that point, and not stopped?

 

As luck would have it, Officers Newton and Leibniz are on duty and pull Zeno over. Zeno denies he ran the stop sign. As proof, he presents the officers with a time-stamped still photo taken of the car just before its nose passed the stop sign. How can they prove the car was moving at that point, and not stopped? Too bad he got caught by Newton and Leibniz, the co-inventors of calculus.

 

Here's where the details start to overwhelm the story arc a little, but they are admittedly necessary. That straight road is divided into intervals at every possible distance, even infinitesimally small ones, and at each point there is a traffic camera that takes a time-stamped still photo of the car as its nose passes that point on the road. This makes it a pretty magical road, but we're good at suspending our disbelief in order to achieve a greater truth. Officers Newton and Leibniz can pull out their own photographic evidence: an infinite number of still shots taken at smaller and smaller intervals along that amazing road. So they can show where Zeno was at the two-minute time, subtract where Zeno was at the one-minute time, and from that determine how far the car traveled: one mile. Divide that by the time it took to travel that distance, and you get the car's average speed: one mile per minute.

 

It might be possible for Zeno to argue with that one counter-example, but not with an infinite accumulation of evidence. Newton and Leibniz offer similar evidence for ever-smaller intervals (eg, at the 1.1 mark, the 1.01, mark, ad infinitum), performing the same exact calculations each time, and the answer is always the same: 1 mile per minute. Ergo, Zeno's car did have a speed at that instant, and that speed was 1 mile per minute. According to Starbird, the evidence doesn't lie in looking at what the car was doing at that very instant, because Zeno was correct when he said that an object can only be in one place at a single moment. Rather, it lies in the accumulation of evidence taken from every possible increment of time (before and after) the critical mark in question.

 

 

Ingenious! Also incredibly tedious. Our hats are off to Newton, Leibniz, and untold mathematicians before and after them who repeated the same exact process of calculation, over and over again, until they'd compiled sufficient "proof" that the derivative formula works. It takes a Special Kind of Person to do that. We are not that special. At least I'm not a smartass like this self-proclaimed mathematical genius. (Jen-Luc Piquant, on the other hand....)

 

No not my phrasing. Starbirds! Change and Motion: Calculus Made Clear, 2nd Edition

 

Robert,

 

"Formally self taught" (Jaco Pastorius Quote)

Edited May 24, 2010 by sifusufi

[Marblehead]

You can walk on the bridge, Marblehead, but you'd best make like an ox. Here's my song:

 

walk like an oxen

bark like a dog

forget about romance

and roll like a log

 

that's what it takes, to keep a love alive;

that's what it takes, to keep a love alive.

 

maybe someday I'll get a chance to sing it for you, ha ha. My girl is laughin' at me for chuckling to myself, that's a good thing!

 

Yeah, laughing is good.

 

And it's true that relativity is important.

 

I still like the paradox: Everything matters but nothing matters.

 

And I agree that we must keep love alive. Without love life is just life and that gets boring after a while.

 

So is my mind moving or not. Well, yes and no. Moving in relationship to what? Relativity.

 

Yes, I can bark like a dog but I'm not sure I can walk like an ox. I have been blinded by the light. (No idea where that came from.)

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Hi Sifusufi,

 

Yes, space/time is important in discussions such as this. Change over a period of time.

 

If we capture only any given point in time then there is no change - neither the water nor the bridge are moving. But if we take two picture at different points in time we will recognize whaere the is change. But then, depending on what we are viewing, there may be no change.

 

Okay. Wierd thought. There are conditions that are static if viewed relative to only one other condition and within a relatively short period of time. But Tao is always dynamic. Or perhaps it is only our perception?

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

I have been blinded by the light. (No idea where that came from.)

 

Peace & Love!

Remember this? Where were you when THIS SONG

was number ONE? Enjoy!

[Marblehead]

Remember this? Where were you when THIS SONG

was number ONE? Enjoy!

 

Yes, that is it. But I have no idea why it popped into my mind because it has been a long time since I heard the song or anything from Manfred.

 

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I did listen to the whole thing just for the memories.

 

Peace & Love!