You can't do anything!

[Vajrahridaya]

Clarity at the expense of honesty is not clarity. Buddhist cosmology...what kinds of reasons to you have for believing in all that?

 

I prefer Taoism's reverence for the Mystery.

 

Direct experience through meditation and contemplations. The same way that yogis of old realized multi-verse. That the cosmos is more than just a physical plain of being. Through meditation and subtlifying consciousness past the 5 senses.

 

Yes, I understand that Taoism revers mystery. Buddhist path unravels the mystery, thus enlightenment in Buddhism means, no more ignorance of how the cosmos works. Buddhism teaches penetrative insight and doesn't congratulate limiting comfort zones.

 

The path works to transcend and understand the senses from a deeper vantage point of perception, not to run away or hope for a better heaven. But rather that this universe is based upon a subtler one and even denser ones... it's rather quite vast and to understand the causes of ones ignorance is to free oneself from them. One can experience these things through meditation and penetrative contemplation, using the correct tools as offered by the Buddha and Buddhas in general.

[Vajrahridaya]

and the winner of this weeks Godwin's law prize goes to... Ralis

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Godwins: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1." circa 1990

 

This is hilarious!!! Somewhat sad... but also hilarious!!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

I've always picture the daoist as sitting on a tranquil mountaintop, sipping on soothing tea, and enjoying the vista.

 

This wrestling in the mud business seems much too strenuous and more apt for the worldly folks.

 

 

 

This is quite an example of contrasting duality. A sage of non-dual awareness could do both without actually identifying with doing anything. There is no concept of enlightened sage vs. worldly people within the inner experience of a truly realized sage, even if they do recognize the mundane designation of such ideas. Internally, bliss while sitting, and bliss while wrestling, the joy of liberation is everywhere because all things are equally empty of substantive self-hood and thus luminous and sparkly with the presence of non-dual ease.

[rakushun]

This is quite an example of contrasting duality. A sage of non-dual awareness could do both without actually identifying with doing anything. There is no concept of enlightened sage vs. worldly people within the inner experience of a truly realized sage, even if they do recognize the mundane designation of such ideas. Internally, bliss while sitting, and bliss while wrestling, the joy of liberation is everywhere because all things are equally empty of substantive self-hood and thus luminous and sparkly with the presence of non-dual ease.

Very true indeed for the thus-gone-ones. But for those us who are still stuck in duality world, the silence places seem the most conducive for making progress. Your point does help to partly open up my eyes to seeing past the heaviness that I have attached to my own reality. But for now, I will try to limit unnecessary "wrestling" until I get a taste of that non-dual treat.

[Vajrahridaya]

Very true indeed for the thus-gone-ones. But for those us who are still stuck in duality world, the silence places seem the most conducive for making progress. Your point does help to partly open up my eyes to seeing past the heaviness that I have attached to my own reality. But for now, I will try to limit unnecessary "wrestling" until I get a taste of that non-dual treat.

 

Of course Rakushun! I myself only experienced my first real tastes non-dual experience in solitude.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I've always picture the daoist as sitting on a tranquil mountaintop, sipping on soothing tea, and enjoying the vista.

 

This wrestling in the mud business seems much too strenuous and more apt for the worldly folks.

 

Just curious, and by no means intending disrespect: have you achieved non-dual conscious awareness? I myself have not done so.

 

Cheers!

 

 

This is quite an example of contrasting duality. A sage of non-dual awareness could do both without actually identifying with doing anything. There is no concept of enlightened sage vs. worldly people within the inner experience of a truly realized sage, even if they do recognize the mundane designation of such ideas. Internally, bliss while sitting, and bliss while wrestling, the joy of liberation is everywhere because all things are equally empty of substantive self-hood and thus luminous and sparkly with the presence of non-dual ease.

 

 

Very true indeed for the thus-gone-ones. But for those us who are still stuck in duality world, the silence places seem the most conducive for making progress. Your point does help to partly open up my eyes to seeing past the heaviness that I have attached to my own reality. But for now, I will try to limit unnecessary "wrestling" until I get a taste of that non-dual treat.

 

 

Of course Rakushun! I myself only experienced my first real tastes non-dual experience in solitude.

 

Hmm, no offense to anyone, but I don't think that shying away from a particularly good discussion that can shed light on our own beliefs, the beliefs of others, and the things that we claim to believe in because it is "unseemly" to "roll around in the mud" is a very good way of going about doing anything.

 

Wrestling in the mud helps you bounce ideas off each other, and since true self inspection is so hard, after all, no one wants to be critical of themselves, it's much easier to be critical to others and allow them to reflect to us the things that we do not like. Of course, we should also keep in mind that when people are critical of us we are acting as mirrors to them, so we shouldn't take it personally.

 

As long as you keep what you are doing in mind, wrestling in the mud, there's no need to take things personally. For some reason, this is one of the few message boards in which I very rarely take stuff personally, and I can't count the number of super long and intricate posts I've typed up before erasing it saying, "eh, not worth it." If it doesn't help myself or others, I don't say it. If it's just some personal thing, I let it go.

 

Now other forums is a different story

 

And if non-duality is not the point, then one should be able to find that non-dual area whether they are in solitude or in a big crowd, right? Since it's not really identified with any one thing.

[Vajrahridaya]

[RyanO]

 

Wonderful quote! One of my all time favorite movies.

 

Well there's something we can agree on!

[Vajrahridaya]

Well there's something we can agree on!

 

It's the perfect quote for forums like this. If you take things personally... you know you're having an issue.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

What many Taoists don't get, is that the cosmos is much vaster than the philosophy holds.

The First Actual Truth: The story dancing in your mind, is not the Truth.

 

As for "Noble Truths", they are neither Noble nor True.. they are statements of one person's beliefs, adopted as "Noble Truths" by those too timid to see for themselves..

 

Be well..

[ralis]

It does for a Buddha because they've released their cognizance from it's binding conditions of duality. That's what makes enlightenment so grand! You finally see the truth of the cosmos free from dualistic concepts and identities. Even while you use them to communicate, they hold no power of bondage over a speaking Buddha.

 

You have no idea what objectivity means! Why not just admit it. Here is a link to a simplistic definition.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Greetings..

 

 

The First Actual Truth: The story dancing in your mind, is not the Truth.

 

As for "Noble Truths", they are neither Noble nor True.. they are statements of one person's beliefs, adopted as "Noble Truths" by those too timid to see for themselves..

 

Be well..

 

What head? This labeled collective connected to endless other collectives? Anyway... yes it's true, I'm not a fully realized and omniscient Buddha and cannot travel inter-dimensionally to the degree that a Buddha can. Very true... I am limited by my lack of realizations.

 

As far as your opinion about the Noble Truths... The Buddha labeled them as Noble Truths to begin with. He fashioned an entire system of tools for which people could use to free themselves because people are generally too distracted by their subjective opinions to see the truth.

 

You are absolutely free to not use these tools. Of course, most likely your path does share influences with the Buddhadharma.

[Vajrahridaya]

You have no idea what objectivity means! Why not just admit it. Here is a link to a simplistic definition.

 

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/objective

 

 

ralis

 

Thanks for clearing that up ralis!

 

It's quite true though... I don't fully know what being objective is because I'm still subject to many neurotic tendencies...

Edited May 14, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Oh God, he's back... and more 'so' than ever...(groan)

[rakushun]

As long as you keep what you are doing in mind, wrestling in the mud, there's no need to take things personally. For some reason, this is one of the few message boards in which I very rarely take stuff personally, and I can't count the number of super long and intricate posts I've typed up before erasing it saying, "eh, not worth it." If it doesn't help myself or others, I don't say it. If it's just some personal thing, I let it go.

Really good information, I'll definitely put this into practice.

 

Now other forums is a different story

Hmmm, should it be a different story? Cheers!

[rakushun]

[ralis]

Thanks for clearing that up ralis!

 

It's quite true though... I don't fully know what being objective is because I'm still subject to many neurotic tendencies...

 

Buddhist teachers, especially Lama's love to use the term "neurotic conditioning". However, the term is loosely used and out of context. To say that all humans suffer from neurotic conditioning is bogus.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Buddhist teachers, especially Lama's love to use the term "neurotic conditioning". However, the term is loosely used and out of context. To say that all humans suffer from neurotic conditioning is bogus.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurosis

 

 

ralis

 

It's just prideful Westerns who think they are so smart but have little inner inter-cosmic experience who think they are actually sane, but are just suckers for popularly accepted 5 sense verifiable reality and have no idea the powers of mind that lay dormant inside far past this neurosis. Or they are prideful of their very little sense of logic and reason? Or they think they are smarter than the teachers who have transcended their stupidity but they are too ego-maniacal to know it because their too busy projecting their hurt, neurotic egos onto the teachers?

 

Your statement and most of them are very neurotic ralis. Not to mention, complete representations of mis-understanding. You exist on an entirely different dimension of perceptual reception, because you claim to be a follower of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's teachings but have no grounding in what he's actually teaching. You should read some of his precious vase, because though nothing other than Guru Yoga is considered compulsory, for you it seems highly necessary! But, you want to keep that "grounded sense of reasoning" nice and snug, don't you? Nothing too far out man.... no way! Are you scared of flying ralis?

[thelerner]

 

View PostTzuJanLi, on 12 May 2010 - 09:20 PM, said:

Buddhists are 'glass half empty kind of folks' anyhow..

 

 

 

"Half Empty!?" No no... it's AAAAALLLLLLLLLLLL empty!! This gives plenty of space for my laughter!!

 

 

Brilliant IMHO

[-O-]

... the powers of mind that lay dormant inside far past this neurosis. ... Are you scared of flying ralis?

 

 

...Hum, or are these "powers of the mind ideas" really a neurosis presented as a cure?

Edited May 14, 2010 by -O-

[xabir2005]

I use to think that the dichotomy of observer dependent on the observed held true, but all such distinctions themselves do not hold. Phenomena and awareness are one not because they are two elements, but both are characteristics of any experience in itself. Experience has always been non dual. Neither phenomena not awareness can be found.

Great post. Thusness and I thinks you have expressed it well. This is true non-duality

 

p.s. here's a poem by Thusness years back, it's about the intensity of direct non-dual experience:

Division of subject and object is merely an assumption.

Thus someone giving up and something to be given up is an illusion.

When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!

 

In thorough transparency, both phenomena and awareness cannot be found, just vivid happening that is 'obviousness throughout and aliveness everywhere'

Edited May 14, 2010 by xabir2005

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Division of subject and object is merely an assumption.

Thus someone giving up and something to be given up is an illusion.

When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!

There is no "Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!".. there is no one to observe or appreciate those qualities.. those qualities are conceptual descriptions of 'someone's' experiences.. return to Clarity, see Life for what it IS, not what Buddha tells you it is.. be authentic..

 

Be well..

[xabir2005]

Greetings..

 

 

There is no "Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!".. there is no one to observe or appreciate those qualities.. those qualities are conceptual descriptions of 'someone's' experiences.. return to Clarity, see Life for what it IS, not what Buddha tells you it is.. be authentic..

 

Be well..

Hi, I wrote my own experiences on this over a year ago. Which is actually similar to what Thusness said

 

(6:49 PM) An Eternal Now: the more the self disappears the more everything manifest its clearness

(6:50 PM) An Eternal Now: and naturalness

(6:51 PM) An Eternal Now: and spaciousness... but spaciousness is not like void.. but the more spacious the more clear everything is..

(6:56 PM) An Eternal Now: today im surprisingly awake even though i only slept 2 hours

[ralis]

It's just prideful Westerns who think they are so smart but have little inner inter-cosmic experience who think they are actually sane, but are just suckers for popularly accepted 5 sense verifiable reality and have no idea the powers of mind that lay dormant inside far past this neurosis. Or they are prideful of their very little sense of logic and reason? Or they think they are smarter than the teachers who have transcended their stupidity but they are too ego-maniacal to know it because their too busy projecting their hurt, neurotic egos onto the teachers?

 

Your statement and most of them are very neurotic ralis. Not to mention, complete representations of mis-understanding. You exist on an entirely different dimension of perceptual reception, because you claim to be a follower of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's teachings but have no grounding in what he's actually teaching. You should read some of his precious vase, because though nothing other than Guru Yoga is considered compulsory, for you it seems highly necessary! But, you want to keep that "grounded sense of reasoning" nice and snug, don't you? Nothing too far out man.... no way! Are you scared of flying ralis?

 

 

Are you a licensed psychologist? I doubt it and you have no legal right to make a diagnosis of my mental state! Buddhists use these terms out of context to make themselves feel above it all. You claim lowly neurotic ignorant westerners need to be saved by your version of the dharma. Your incessant preaching is no different than Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the rest of the fundamentalist ilk that infects this planet.

 

I can be far out and fly! However, I don't need your Buddhist semantics or any other belief systems to be liberated.

 

The Buddhist have created an infinite gap between suffering and liberation that no one can attain. Buddhists put themselves under an infinite microscope to search out infinite microscopic negativity that sucks the joy and fun out of life. I tried that methodology and created more stress than I cared to have.

 

BTW, since you have very little understanding of power and authoritarian structures, I suggest you read this book that is freely available to all.

 

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

 

http://www.whale.to/b/reich.pdf Another excellent read to help understand the dangers of power and authoritarianism.

 

 

ralis

Edited May 14, 2010 by ralis

[That Guy]

the powers of mind that lay dormant inside far past this neurosis.

What are these powers?

What can they do?

Edited May 14, 2010 by That Guy