You can't do anything!

[C T]

What are these powers?

What can they do?

The powers of super-ordinariness.

Those that will not get one 'drunk'.

They open the diamond-eye so that things are seen as they are, without the need to add or take away anything.

 

 

 

"Thirty years ago I was born into the world.

A thousand, ten thousand miles I have roamed,

by rivers where the green grass lies thick,

beyond the borders where the red sand fly.

I brewed potions in a vain search for life everlasting,

I read books, I sang songs of history,

and today I have come home to Cold Mountain

to pillow my head on the stream and wash my ears."

 

- Han Shan (750 - 800 CE)

Taoist/Ch'an Hermit

[That Guy]

The powers of super-ordinariness.

Those that will not get one 'drunk'.

They open the diamond-eye so that things are seen as they are, without the need to add or take away anything.

 

how exciting.

What do you mean by drunk?

And what do you consider being ordinary for us?

[Vajrahridaya]

...Hum, or are these "powers of the mind ideas" really a neurosis presented as a cure?

 

They come about as a natural result of calming the neurotic tendencies and previously instinctual habit patterns. So, I'd so no... they are natural side effects of delving deeper into ones own potential.

[That Guy]

They come about as a natural result of calming the neurotic tendencies and previously instinctual habit patterns. So, I'd so no... they are natural side effects of delving deeper into ones own potential.

Potential to do what?

[-O-]

They come about as a natural result of calming the neurotic tendencies and previously instinctual habit patterns. So, I'd so no... they are natural side effects of delving deeper into ones own potential.

 

 

Or are they the natural progression of neurosis left unchecked by "quieting" critical thinking and ignoring lessons learned through trial & error over the course of ones life?

 

Said elsewhere - phenomena and awareness cannot be separated, objectivity is an approximation.... perhaps "powers of the mind" are delusion born of robbing our own natural and learned means of finding critical approximations. Maybe experiencing these things first hand would then only be an indication of how far the neurosis has progressed.

Edited May 14, 2010 by -O-

[ralis]

According to Buddhist dogma, everyone is infected with neurotic conditioning. Therefore, since the Buddhists have created this mentally disturbed category, only the Buddhists have the prescription for immediate and long lasting relief!

 

 

 

 

ralis

Edited May 14, 2010 by ralis

[xabir2005]

Great post. Thusness and I thinks you have expressed it well. This is true non-duality

 

p.s. here's a poem by Thusness years back, it's about the intensity of direct non-dual experience:

Division of subject and object is merely an assumption.

Thus someone giving up and something to be given up is an illusion.

When self becomes more and more transparent,

Likewise phenomena become more and more luminous.

In thorough transparency all happening are pristinely and vividly clear.

Obviousness throughout, aliveness everywhere!

 

In thorough transparency, both phenomena and awareness cannot be found, just vivid happening that is 'obviousness throughout and aliveness everywhere'

I've talked to Thusness about this... he commented that even after glimpses of non-dual and anatta, one may be unable to overcome tendencies especially for one that has engaged in too much concepts in the past. Because these tendencies are strong, it manifest in your disheartened-ness. Hence at this junction, it is important to boldly step out of the mental loop without further thought in the correct way and most direct manner. At this point, it is like the Zen master twisting the nose of the student ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/05/words-of-three-zen-masters-realization.html ), it is about Tada, the luminosity and suchness of things ( http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/04/tada.html ) - a direct pointing to the "vivid aliveness", i.e. the pain of the nose. One must know when to drop concepts when it is time and when to pick it up again. Otherwise one might have to face a period of confusion and suffering for a while. Edited May 15, 2010 by xabir2005

[C T]

how exciting.

What do you mean by drunk?

And what do you consider being ordinary for us?

"Drunk' as in a sort of daze. Or chasing after unrealistic fantasies, like powers, siddhis and such.

 

"Being ordinary" can be interpreted as remaining in equanimous poise at all times, where the mind-chatter subsides at will.

[Vajrahridaya]

According to Buddhist dogma, everyone is infected with neurotic conditioning. Therefore, since the Buddhists have created this mentally disturbed category, only the Buddhists have the prescription for immediate and long lasting relief!

 

 

 

 

ralis

 

Ah, Silar-ralis... famed Hero cereal killer on the TV show Heros... who is actually having a change of heart as of late!

 

With his demonic entity "The Joker" as an Avatar... speaks to us all!

 

But yes, as of right now on Earth... this is the medicine for not knowing the nature of your own self.

 

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche believes in past lives, Buddha realms, that the lineage of Buddhism as it stands right now is pure for the most part. That there might be secret lineages that are not that accessible to people hidden in mountains or whatever... but what's the point? You claim to be a Dzogchen practitioner or receiver of the transmission? But you don't believe anything he teaches.

[lifeforce]

According to Buddhist dogma, everyone is infected with neurotic conditioning. Therefore, since the Buddhists have created this mentally disturbed category, only the Buddhists have the prescription for immediate and long lasting relief!

 

 

 

 

ralis

 

 

Which normally involves merely existing, as opposed to LIVING a full life.

[Lucky7Strikes]

The usual "live life fully!" propaganda leads to much suffering, and it's really a meaningless greeting card expression. .

Edited May 16, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Mark Foote]

When you say you, you you. My question is what is this you that chooses. You won't find anyone there, because "you" is simply what is arising at this moment, whether that is your thoughts, whether it is dual perception, whether it is non-dual perception, whether it is driving....whatever.

 

You are this. And "this" does not choose in the traditional sense of there being an individual who will act among certain choices. It just is. All a one flow.

 

hey, Lucky7Strikes, thanks for the thread.

 

My experience is that in the moment where I witness how the place of occurrence of consciousness is conditioned by attachment to the pleasant, or aversion to the painful, or ignorance of the neutral feeling, in that very moment the occurrence of consciousness is freed. It's not that I do something, make an effort to see something; I suffer, I witness, I is gone. Sort of.

 

What I do notice is that although I can act from some kind of preconscious or unconscious place, like a state of self-hypnosis, it's my beliefs that ultimately determine that action. And what I think and experience goes into my beliefs. Also, the ability to feel throughout the body and seemingly beyond the boundaries of the senses is drawing me inexorably, and if I imagine I can do otherwise than surrender my actions become circular. I run in circles, over short or long periods of time.

 

So I agree, there is no volition that doesn't result in a station of consciousness (as the Gautamid put it), and consequently the whole sequence ending with the five skandas, or "groups of grasping (after a notion of self). At the same time, there is nothing we can do about it, except accept our own well-being and happiness as an inexorable force in our lives. Can't even do that, really, can we?

 

Hey, Ralis, nice to see your ugly face (love that picture)!

 

two-cents; thanks again, Lucky7Strikes, for falling up with this...

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

And, the charade continues.. Individual Beings, testing each other's intellects and egos by refining the fairy-tale that they don't actually exist, and that there's no free-will, or volitional Being.. Content to BE that which is pretensed as 'illusion', as long as no one spoils the game that feeds the Ego.. Still, even in the dismissal of the necessity of such volitional Beings, the necessity is played-out or the game would end..

 

When someone calls your name, Who is it that answers?..

 

Be well..

[ralis]

Which normally involves merely existing, as opposed to LIVING a full life.

 

Such as taking life way too seriously!

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

Greetings..

 

And, the charade continues.. Individual Beings, testing each other's intellects and egos by refining the fairy-tale that they don't actually exist, and that there's no free-will, or volitional Being.. Content to BE that which is pretensed as 'illusion', as long as no one spoils the game that feeds the Ego.. Still, even in the dismissal of the necessity of such volitional Beings, the necessity is played-out or the game would end..

 

When someone calls your name, Who is it that answers?..

 

Be well..

 

You're kind of a black and white thinker aren't you?

 

It's as if no other information makes a dent on your brain, so I question the openness you have experienced in meditation practice. It seems your peace and simplicity is merely a comfort zone and new perspectives bounce off of this comfort zone?

 

Once again though... I'll share with you the Buddhist position.

 

Buddhists don't believe that they don't exist, just that everything exists relatively and not inherently and that there is no absolute "self" existence. Also, Buddhists don't believe that there is an illusion, just that absolute self existence is an illusion of appearance that falls pray to impermanence eventually.

[Vajrahridaya]

Such as taking life way too seriously!

 

 

ralis

 

At the same time, being born with the ability for self awareness on deep, deep levels as the tools of being human grant, is a seriously wondrous blessing! So, being human is also a seriously great place to be, in order to cultivate deeper awareness of things because this body too shall pass, unless you realize Jalus of course.

[ralis]

At the same time, being born with the ability for self awareness on deep, deep levels as the tools of being human grant, is a seriously wondrous blessing! So, being human is also a seriously great place to be, in order to cultivate deeper awareness of things because this body too shall pass, unless you realize Jalus of course.

 

What do you mean by "human grant"? I am not a superficial person as you would like to believe.

 

ralis

[ralis]

 

Buddhists don't believe that they don't exist, just that everything exists relatively and not inherently and that there is no absolute "self" existence. Also, Buddhists don't believe that there is an illusion, just that absolute self existence is an illusion of appearance that falls pray to impermanence eventually.

 

More rhetorical nonsense. Why not put your experience in your own words.

 

BTW, if you still live in Florida, why not go out and enjoy the white sandy beaches before they turn black with oil.

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

What do you mean by "human grant"? I am not a superficial person as you would like to believe.

 

ralis

 

The tools of being human grant: the ability to see more deeply than lets say being born through the karmic tools of a fish.

 

Ok... good ralis. I'm much happier about you to know that you are not as superficial as I have come to believe through our debates.

[Vajrahridaya]

More rhetorical nonsense. Why not put your experience in your own words.

 

BTW, if you still live in Florida, why not go out and enjoy the white sandy beaches before they turn black with oil.

 

ralis

 

I'm on the East Coast of Florida. I work on Beach Drive for a living.

 

Anyway... these are my own words coming from my own experience and understanding of the Dharma. It's not rhetorical, you just don't have the capacity to understand my use of the English language. I don't take your mis-understanding as a sign that I should change for you, because I speak in a way that comes naturally for me in reference of experiential understanding. Plenty of people understand the meaning of my words and compliment me. Are they wrong and you're right? Maybe you should read more slowly, or ignore me.

[Vajrahridaya]

For ralis,

 

Buddhists don't believe that they don't exist, just that everything exists relatively (as in things and ones self arises dependently upon causes and conditions seemingly outside of itself) and not inherently (as in not from it's own self) and that there is no absolute "self" existence (as in an existence that exists from it's own nature). Also, Buddhists don't believe that there is an illusion, just that absolute self existence is an illusion of appearance that falls pray to impermanence eventually.(An illusion does not exist, but one can be fooled by ones perception of things and through the illusion of permanence comes attachment and suffering when that illusion is destroyed by the fact of impermanence.)

[Lucky7Strikes]

hey, Lucky7Strikes, thanks for the thread.

 

My experience is that in the moment where I witness how the place of occurrence of consciousness is conditioned by attachment to the pleasant, or aversion to the painful, or ignorance of the neutral feeling, in that very moment the occurrence of consciousness is freed. It's not that I do something, make an effort to see something; I suffer, I witness, I is gone. Sort of.

 

What I do notice is that although I can act from some kind of preconscious or unconscious place, like a state of self-hypnosis, it's my beliefs that ultimately determine that action. And what I think and experience goes into my beliefs. Also, the ability to feel throughout the body and seemingly beyond the boundaries of the senses is drawing me inexorably, and if I imagine I can do otherwise than surrender my actions become circular. I run in circles, over short or long periods of time.

Yes, and when we see where those beliefs and habits come from, it comes from interacting within the world and others. But of course, there is no objective world beyond sentience (note: consciousness and its object are are not nouns but adjectives/adverbs) all sentient beings are conditioning and being conditioned by one another, an infinite matrix of dependence.

 

But as for practice, I think Cow Tao's thread on Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche is on point about effortless abiding: once it is realized that the light is on, there is no need to continuously press the light switch.

 

So I agree, there is no volition that doesn't result in a station of consciousness (as the Gautamid put it), and consequently the whole sequence ending with the five skandas, or "groups of grasping (after a notion of self). At the same time, there is nothing we can do about it, except accept our own well-being and happiness as an inexorable force in our lives. Can't even do that, really, can we?

Right. We can't do anything, and we couldn't have done anything all along. But this must be understood with emptiness and no-self teachings, otherwise it can be abused as an excuse to certify the ego's desires.

 

It took me a long time to come to terms with this, Xabir and I bickered (well at least I did) for more than 20 pages on the existence of free will. It is hard to accept that all the suffering and evil are also an intricate part of whole of existence and that there is no one to blame. That everything is already in perfect harmony (the Buddha supposedly resides in the middle, so he eternally acts as an equalizing agent deploying skillful means to...bring balance to the force? He serves the world consciously, being awake, and everyone else does but unconsciously, as if asleep).

 

The spiritual path, its struggles, suffering, practice, realization and enlightenment are all conditioned risings of existence. It is extremely humbling to realize this and for me personally, I felt very thankful to...well...no one!! (well I should thank Xabir for taking my crap). Just very thankful, freeing, abiding in what has always been, and letting the path reveal to me whatever effortlessly arises.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[ralis]

The tools of being human grant: the ability to see more deeply than lets say being born through the karmic tools of a fish.

 

Ok... good ralis. I'm much happier about you to know that you are not as superficial as I have come to believe through our debates.

 

Your explanation of "human grant" still makes no sense in the context of your statement. You accuse me of not having the capacity to understand what you write. So I guess it is my fault if I don't understand incorrect grammatical syntax.

 

 

ralis

[Mark Foote]

 

The spiritual path, its struggles, suffering, practice, realization and enlightenment are all conditioned risings of existence. It is extremely humbling to realize this and for me personally, I felt very thankful to...well...no one!! (well I should thank Xabir for taking my crap). Just very thankful, freeing, abiding in what has always been, and letting the path reveal to me whatever effortlessly arises.

 

Thanks for reading my post, Lucky7Strikes; I can hardly make sense of it rereading it. Have to make more of an effort to talk to myself, I guess, 'cause it seems I get confused when I think I'm talking to anyone else.

 

My own thought this morning was that my understanding must change like everything else, and I am well-served by Tao Bums so long as I aim to say the thing fresh, as it were.

 

I'm not happy until the weight of my body is in it. The weight of my body is not in it unless it's a necessity of breath. Where's the joy in that, you might ask, and I am so lucky to have made the acquaintance of apepch7 with those beautiful symbols of ancient Egypt when I ask myself that: I'm convinced it's the Ankh entering the breath. Here's the illustration:

 

 

How does the occurrence of consciousness, sans intent, generate the activity of the current posture? Bouncing off the stretch in existence at the moment, the occurrence of consciousness leads the balance to shift the weight of the body into the stretch. That stretch depends on the cranial-sacral rhythm, and in particular on the way the movement at the sacrum stretches fascia and ligaments. I have an animation, here:

 

The Bridge is Flowing

 

Nothing to be done, but the occurrence of consciousness has impact, and the impact causes activity that opens feeling. The witness of attachment, aversion, or ignorance with respect to feeling is spontaneous, too. In sum, awareness is action, even without intent. Nothing to be done, but awareness is action, even the simple awareness of the parts of the body in sitting.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Mark Foote

[Vajrahridaya]

Your explanation of "human grant" still makes no sense in the context of your statement. You accuse me of not having the capacity to understand what you write. So I guess it is my fault if I don't understand incorrect grammatical syntax.

 

 

ralis

 

When someone grants you something? Being human grants you the ability? This is all English dude.

 

My English is fine. Your pre-conceptions, and personal condition gets in the way of understanding what you read when what you read is out of your comfort zone.

Edited May 17, 2010 by Vajrahridaya