Gulf Oil Spill & Continuous Outpour

[gendao]

I have heard the CFR conspiracy for decades, yet, see no proof of mass manipulation on their part. If and only if there is mass hypnotic consumer manipulation on their part, then posit direct evidence. Otherwise, you are just using conspiracy theories to rest your arguments on.

You only see "no proof" because of who (mass media) you let control your "sight."

From one of the horses' own mouths itself...next?

One of the problems with the educational system in the U.S. is the lack of training students how to develop critical thinking skills. Instead, there is a mass psychology of groupthink being driven by fear and the corporate media. To blame liberals is ludicrous. I suggest you read up on the latest Texas School Board rulings.

That's merely recent (Christian) kneejerk pushback from years of (atheist) liberal-slanted content. And it hasn't even really taken effect yet since it just passed. (Although, I personally don't find either liberal or conservative version very accurate. Where's the Icke/Alex Jones/Ron Paul version? ) Maybe the best answer is to simply label historical viewpoints upfront like "Liberal History 1" or "Christian History 1."

 

But I am only blaming liberals specifically for our kids' lazy, self-entitlement attitude here. Which also includes an overfocus on identity politics over actual performance now. For example, while the liberal media grilled Sarah Palin as an "underqualified" VP...they've roundly applauded Obama's nomination of Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court.

 

Apparently, being a homosexual-feminist-Jewish-woman-yadda-yadda is considered an actual "accomplishment" by them today. Guess that's like a full house in ID politics poker... Unfortunately, the fact that she has NO ACTUAL JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE is deemed "irrelevant" in her case (becoming a lifetime judge in the highest court in our land). But again, what you ARE now supercedes what you've DONE.

 

And people wonder why productivity & business performance is plummeting in this country? While we're busy patting ourselves on the back for promoting the first "check special interest boxes here," Asian countries are busy promoting their highest performers & eating our lunch.

Then you equate being progressive with being "cool". A lot of marketing hype that claims to be cool, progressive and green, is just that, hype! Your greenbacks are what corporations are interested in!

I agree, hence I put it in quotes...

 

BTW, I am not all anti-liberal or anti-"progressive" at all. Mainly in just the areas I noted. I just see the world in my own way regardless of the prefab boxes that others might stuff things in. Where liberalism has gotten a "free pass" by our mass media and hence I feel the need to point out its dark side too.

Edited June 10, 2010 by vortex

[rain]

This is a forum with many great thinkers, great insights and sharing of information,

One year ago I took a couple of phones urging the government to make use of plain citizens

cleaning up the disasterous oil polluting our coastlines. No simple task to convince them but fortunately they had hundreds of similar calls.

I did post the event here, no one seemed to notice.

 

The people of Nigeria have long time waded in the toxinsand eaten deadly fish from BP's oilspill.

But ironically it never seems to reach the news.

 

I admit the military's and civilians first feeble attempts to clean the shores in Norway was a grim

farce.

Now all our rescue tools and resources are at your coastlines, and we are if anything should happen

at this very moment, far worse off with less protection than one year ago, no politicians

have even bothered to answer the official letter written by the major in the insulted county, asking for a conlusion of the matter. Silence. He askes what have we lerned, what are the imprved strategies? Nothing. Silence.

And why is this?

So many people including politicians are tied and tangled by their purchased oil-shares, by their business interests.

They are aware of the competing cheap sanded oil and aware of the fact that oil is running out and determined to sacrifice even more of our pristine norhtern coastlines to ensure that our country stays afloat while EU and the rest sink. Even if the government can give NO guarantees that this will not happen again.

Hardboiled businessmen believe the capitlist system has come to its end,

and what we are seeing is a hoarding mentality.

Edited June 10, 2010 by rain

[ralis]

You only see "no proof" because of who (mass media) you let control your "sight."

From one of the horses' own mouths itself...next? :lol:That's merely recent (Christian) kneejerk pushback from years of (atheist) liberal-slanted content. And it hasn't even really taken effect yet since it just passed. (Although, I personally don't find either liberal or conservative version very accurate. Where's the Icke/Alex Jones/Ron Paul version? ) Maybe the best answer is to simply label historical viewpoints upfront like "Liberal History 1" or "Christian History 1."

 

But I am only blaming liberals specifically for our kids' lazy, self-entitlement attitude here. Which also includes an overfocus on identity politics over actual performance now. For example, while the liberal media grilled Sarah Palin as an "underqualified" VP...they've roundly applauded Obama's nomination of Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court.

 

Apparently, being a homosexual-feminist-Jewish-woman-yadda-yadda is considered an actual "accomplishment" by them today. Unfortunately, the fact that she has NO ACTUAL JUDICIAL EXPERIENCE is deemed "irrelevant" in her case (becoming a lifetime judge in the highest court in our land). But again, what you ARE now supersedes what you've DONE.

 

And people wonder why productivity & business performance is plummeting in this country? While we're busy patting ourselves on the back for promoting the first "check special interest boxes here," Asian countries are busy promoting their highest performers & eating our lunch.I agree, hence I put it in quotes...

 

BTW, I am not all anti-liberal or anti-"progressive" at all. Mainly in just the areas I noted. I just see the world in my own way regardless of the prefab boxes that others might stuff things in. Where liberalism has gotten a "free pass" by our mass media and hence I feel the need to point out its dark side too.

 

 

You seem to have the idea that education has been the domain of liberals. The last administration with it's "No Child Left Behind" agenda has contributed to nothing more than teaching kids tests! That agenda will have far reaching neg. consequences. Why? If one is only taught how to pass a test, then critical thinking that leads to sound rational judgments has been deleted. I think that is a right wing conservative agenda. If you don't believe me, then diligently research past history and the answer becomes apparent. Progressives in general, want an educational system free of religious dogma and right wing repressive agenda's.

 

I think you have been listening to Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and that has biased your opinion towards Elena Kagan. Your statement about her is an opinion of a bigot, and is not based on facts, just right wing propaganda. Furthermore, why is there so much interest from people such as yourself as to what race or sexual orientation a person is, that is cited as a determining factor, as to whether or not a person is qualified for a job or not.

 

 

ralis

[gendao]

You seem to have the idea that education has been the domain of liberals. The last administration with it's "No Child Left Behind" agenda has contributed to nothing more than teaching kids tests! That agenda will have far reaching neg. consequences. Why? If one is only taught how to pass a test, then critical thinking that leads to sound rational judgments has been deleted. I think that is a right wing conservative agenda. If you don't believe me, then diligently research past history and the answer becomes apparent. Progressives in general, want an educational system free of religious dogma and right wing repressive agenda's.

No, that law was intending to standardize curriculums and shift them to core subjects like English, math & science...and away from arts, social studies & foregin languages. Which I agree with - since technology & manufacturing are far more important for us to remain viable in the Digital Age global economy now.

 

Personally, I think school should just focus on mandatorily teaching the less subjective core subjects & minimize school hours. This will free up more time each day for students to then go home and study whatever else they wish. Not to mention, will also remove more bias from school - as it is far more difficult to bias things like math!

 

BTW, I love art & music and agree they can enhance the quality of life in any area...just don't think they necessarily need to be taught as required classes in school. I mean, why stop there, then? Why not meditation & neidan too? Why not qigong, etc?

Furthermore, why is there so much interest from people such as yourself as to what race or sexual orientation a person is, that is cited as a determining factor, as to whether or not a person is qualified for a job or not.

Lol, uh my whole point is that there SHOULDN'T be so much interest in her race or sexual orientation...instead of her actual QUALIFICATIONS & positions.

 

Personally, I would love to see some ENVIRONMENTALIST, alternative energy researcher, HOLISTIC HEALTH or consumer advocates (like Ralph Nader) on our Supreme Court.

 

Instead, we got the court stacked with industry reps like Clarence Thomas - who is now ruling in the case to approve Monsanto's GMO Roundup Ready alfalfa...despite having been a lawyer for them for 3 years in the late 70s. But apparently, he does not see this as a conflict of interest and has not recused himself.

Edited June 10, 2010 by vortex

[rain]

the problem is all the talking

all the aces sitting

Edited June 10, 2010 by rain

[Ya Mu]

Oil spill estimates double

So sad. I remember Perdido Key from when I taught a workshop there. An absolutely wonderful beautiful place. Also spawning grounds for red snapper and many other fish. Now oil everywhere.

[rain]

call the local municipality and WWF, volunteer to join. they need people, make them admit it.

[Franklin]

[reddragon]

They're Making Benzaprine Out of the Ocean

 

---->

 

2-Butoxyethanol

Organic sulfonic acid salt Proprietary

Propylene Glycol

Material and Safety Data Handeling

 

Wiki:

Propylene glycol is used:

 

* As a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations. Notably, diazepam, which is insoluble in water, uses propylene glycol as its solvent in its clinical, injectable form.

Edited June 13, 2010 by reddragon

[reddragon]

They're Making Benzaprine Out of the Ocean

 

---->

 

2-Butoxyethanol

Organic sulfonic acid salt Proprietary

Propylene Glycol

Material and Safety Data Handeling

 

Wiki:

Propylene glycol is used:

 

* As a solvent in many pharmaceuticals, including oral, injectable and topical formulations. Notably, diazepam, which is insoluble in water, uses propylene glycol as its solvent in its clinical, injectable form.

 

 

Eventually they will burn and tons of Benzine will be distributed.

 

Benzine is an AMNESIAC

[Ya Mu]

[Sloppy Zhang]

Is this really something we can laugh about?

 

 

 

Sorry if it's already been posted, I haven't stuck with this thread since the beginning...

[de_paradise]

Even at this late stage, you see nothing of the *lets settle our differences, come clean, work together, leave self-interest behind* type of behavior needed for humans to acheive maximum results in battling a major objective.

 

A huge blowout in Saudi Arabia gulf, they sent out many many huge ships to lap up the oil as it came up. Jeez, what a easy plan. But look what happens in the USA, its just blaming, sueing, lying, greed, betraying in all strata of society, from the leaders to the deckhands, and it just continues.

 

In a battle of competing self-interested behavior, everyone will lose, as in the prisoner's dilemma in game theory. Its happening in real time.

 

Even at this late hour, you'd think these people could prevent half of Florida's coast becoming a toxic death hole. It hasnt happened yet. Why does it seem so likely?

[Trunk]

Even at this late stage, ..?

 

Well spoken.

[Ya Mu]

Even at this late stage, you see nothing of the *lets settle our differences, come clean, work together, leave self-interest behind* type of behavior needed for humans to acheive maximum results in battling a major objective.

 

A huge blowout in Saudi Arabia gulf, they sent out many many huge ships to lap up the oil as it came up. Jeez, what a easy plan. But look what happens in the USA, its just blaming, sueing, lying, greed, betraying in all strata of society, from the leaders to the deckhands, and it just continues.

 

In a battle of competing self-interested behavior, everyone will lose, as in the prisoner's dilemma in game theory. Its happening in real time.

 

Even at this late hour, you'd think these people could prevent half of Florida's coast becoming a toxic death hole. It hasnt happened yet. Why does it seem so likely?

Agree.

[ralis]

Here is a live video of the gusher. Just makes me sick!

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/20/live-gulf-oil-spill-video-feed_n_583682.html

 

 

ralis

[Enishi]

I stumbled across this article today. I really, REALLY hope it's wrong.

 

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2010/0610.html

[joeblast]

A huge blowout in Saudi Arabia gulf, they sent out many many huge ships to lap up the oil as it came up. Jeez, what a easy plan. But look what happens in the USA, its just blaming, sueing, lying, greed, betraying in all strata of society, from the leaders to the deckhands, and it just continues.

Read up on the Jones act - Unions love it because it "guarantees them work" in some twisted fashion. We've had tons of offers for help, most if not all ignored or declined because nobody in this administration wants to piss the unions off, after all they did to get them in office. Watch the news and you can see Gibbs, Browner, Thad Allen, all saying "well if we really had a need to wave the Jones Act, we'd do so, but there's been no requests." *cough*bullshit*cough* We had offers for help as soon as this disaster occurred and anything against the Jones Act was duly ignored.

 

 

Also, BP screwed up majorly here - they knew there were problems with the well but they pushed on ahead because they were behind schedule and paying $500k/day fees because Deepwater was due elsewhere!

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/06/bp-emails-show-disregard-for-nightmare-well.html

 

Internal discussion at BP in the days leading up to the explosion that sunk the Deepwater Horizon drilling rig and began the largest environmental catastrophe in American history reveal concerns about the well's integrity and a disregard for a key safety mechanism, according to emails obtained by a congressional investigation.

 

The original rig drilling at the well site for BP had been damaged by Hurricane Ida last November, and the Deepwater Horizon had been brought in to resume the operation. However, by the day the well exploded, April 20, the replacement rig was more than 40 days overdue for its next booked drilling -- BP was footing a daily overdue fee for the Deepwater Horizon rig of at least $500,000.

 

Under pressure to finish the job, BP apparently chose a cheaper and riskier method of casing the steel tubes in the well. In an email dated April 14, six days before the explosion, BP drilling engineer Brian Morel describes the Macondo well being drilled by the Deepwater Horizon as "a nightmare well."

 

A response by colleague Richard Miller reveals a risk that made some engineers uncomfortable: "We have flipped design parameters around to the point I got nervous." Later, however, Miller tries calming nerves by insisting, "All looks fine."

 

In a brief reply punctuating the conversation, a third BP engineer, Mark Hafle admits, "This has been a crazy well for sure."

 

In May, Hafle faced criticism before a joint Coast Guard-Minerals Management Service panel investigating the circumstances of the explosion and subsequent leak. At least one panel member suggested the casing that Hafle oversaw was responsible for the blowout and explosion, but Hafle insisted BP employed "sound engineering practice."

 

Separate email exchanges also reveal corners BP cut in a crucial safety device.

 

Centralizers are important mechanisms for insuring the casing runs straight through the well bore. It has been previously revealed in congressional testimony that Halliburton recommended 21 centralizers be used at this site, but ultimately, BP only used six. In the early morning of April 16, four days before the explosion, BP official Gregory Waltz identifies modeling data provided by Halliburton requiring additional centralizers. In response, Waltz emails colleagues, "We have located 15 Weatherford centralizers with stop collars."

 

Waltz's inquiry of the available centralizers is squashed that afternoon by John Guide, who writes in response, "I just found out the stop collars are not part of the centralizer as you stated. Also it will take 10 hours to install them ... I do not like this ... I am very concerned about using them."

 

In a separate conversation, also on April 16, BP official Brett Cocales at once emphasizes the centralizers' importance while shrugging off BP's neglect of them.

 

"Even if the hole is perfectly straight, a straight piece of pipe even in tension will not seek the perfect center of the hole unless it has something to centralize it," Cocales wrote. "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job... So Guide is right on the risk/reward equation."

 

Four days later an explosion killed 11 workers on the Deepwater Horizon and oil began gushing into the Gulf of Mexico.

 

The BP emails were among dozens of internal documents made public today by the House Energy and Commerce Committee as one of its subcommittees prepares to hear testimony from BP CEO Tony Hayward Thursday morning.

[gendao]

I stumbled across this article today. I really, REALLY hope it's wrong.

 

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2010/0610.html

Lol, well HOPE is what Americans voted for - and it's all we got now!

“the Obama White House and British Petroleum are covering up the magnitude of the volcanic-level oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico and working together to limit BP’s liability for damage caused by what can be called a ‘mega-disaster.’” Madsen cites sources within the US Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA, and Florida Department of Environmental Protection for his assertion.

 

Obama and his senior White House staff, as well as Interior Secretary Salazar, are working with BP’s chief executive officer Tony Hayward on legislation that would raise the cap on liability for damage claims from those affected by the oil disaster from $75 million to $10 billion. According to informed estimates cited by Madsen, however, the disaster has a real potential cost of at least $1,000 billion ($1 trillion). That estimate would support the pessimistic assessment of Kutcherov that the spill, if not rapidly controlled, “will destroy the entire coastline of the United States.”

 

According to the Washington report of Madsen, BP statements that one of the leaks has been contained, are “pure public relations disinformation designed to avoid panic and demands for greater action by the Obama administration., according to FEMA and Corps of Engineers sources.”

 

The White House has been resisting releasing any “damaging information” about the oil disaster. Coast Guard and Corps of Engineers experts estimate that if the ocean oil geyser is not stopped within 90 days, there will be irreversible damage to the marine eco-systems of the Gulf of Mexico, north Atlantic Ocean, and beyond. At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.

 

Only after the magnitude of the disaster became evident did Obama order Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano to declare the oil disaster a “national security issue.” Although the Coast Guard and FEMA are part of her department, Napolitano’s actual reasoning for invoking national security, according to Madsen, was merely to block media coverage of the immensity of the disaster that is unfolding for the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean and their coastlines.

 

The Obama administration also conspired with BP to hide the extent of the oil leak, according to the cited federal and state sources. After the oil rig exploded and sank, the government stated that 42,000 gallons per day were gushing from the seabed chasm. Five days later, the federal government upped the leakage to 210,000 gallons a day. However, submersibles monitoring the escaping oil from the Gulf seabed are viewing television pictures of what they describe as a “volcanic-like” eruption of oil.

 

When the Army Corps of Engineers first attempted to obtain NASA imagery of the Gulf oil slick, which is larger than is being reported by the media, it was reportedly denied the access. By chance, National Geographic managed to obtain satellite imagery shots of the extent of the disaster and posted them on their web site. Other satellite imagery reportedly being withheld by the Obama administration, shows that what lies under the gaping chasm spewing oil at an ever-alarming rate is a cavern estimated to be the size of Mount Everest. This information has been given an almost national security-level classification to keep it from the public, according to Madsen’s sources.

 

The Corps of Engineers and FEMA are reported to be highly critical of the lack of support for quick action after the oil disaster by the Obama White House and the US Coast Guard. Only now has the Coast Guard understood the magnitude of the disaster, dispatching nearly 70 vessels to the affected area. Under the loose regulatory measures implemented by the Bush-Cheney Administration, the US Interior Department’s Minerals Management Service became a simple “rubber stamp,” approving whatever the oil companies wanted in terms of safety precautions that could have averted such a disaster. Madsen describes a state of “criminal collusion” between Cheney’s former firm, Halliburton, and the Interior Department’s MMS, and that the potential for similar disasters exists with the other 30,000 off-shore rigs that use the same shut-off valves.

 

there is a deafening silence from the very environmental organizations which ought to be at the barricades demanding that BP, the US Government and others act decisively.

 

That deafening silence of leading green or ecology organizations such as Greenpeace, Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club and others may well be tied to a money trail that leads right back to the oil industry, notably to BP. Leading environmental organizations have gotten significant financial payoffs in recent years from BP in order that the oil company could remake itself with an “environment-friendly face,” as in “beyond petroleum” the company’s new branding.

 

The Nature Conservancy, described as “the world’s most powerful environmental group,”10 has awarded BP a seat on its International Leadership Council after the oil company gave the organization more than $10 million in recent years.

thirteen entities that had offered the U.S. oil spill assistance within about two weeks of the Horizon rig explosion. They were the governments of Canada, Croatia, France, Germany, Ireland, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Republic of Korea, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, and the United Nations.

 

The U.S. response - Thank you, but no thank you, we've got it.

 

"..While there is no need right now that the U.S. cannot meet, the U.S. Coast Guard is assessing these offers of assistance to see if there will be something which we will need in the near future."

 

Dutch news site De Standaard also reported Belgian and Dutch dredgers have technology in-house to fight the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, but the Jones Act forbids them to work in the U.S.

 

A Belgian group--DEME-- contends it can clean up the oil in three to four months with specialty vessel and equipment, rather than an estimated nine months if done only by the U.S. The article noted there are no more than 5 or 6 of those ships in the world and the top specialist players are the two Belgian companies- DEME and De Nul - and their Dutch competitors.

 

The U.S. does not have the similar technology and vessel to accomplish the cleanup task because those ships would cost twice as much to build in the U.S. than in the Far East. The article further criticizes this "great technological delay" is a direct consequence of the Jones Act.

 

As discussed in my analysis of the oil service sector, the European companies typically possess the knowhow in offshore and subsea; whereas their North American counterparts excel in onshore drilling and production technologies.

 

So, it is more than likely that European firms do have the expertise to clean up the spill quicker and more effectively as DEME asserts.

 

waivers of the Jones may be granted by the Administration in cases of national emergencies or in cases of strategic interest.

U.S. not accepting foreign help on oil spill

 

When State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley refused to tell reporters which countries have offered assistance to help respond to the BP oil spill, the State Department press corps was flabbergasted.

 

"As a policy matter, we're not going to identify those offers of assistance until we are able to see, you know, what we need, assess the ongoing situation. And as we accept those offers of assistance, we will inform you," Crowley said.

 

Then they mentioned Iran's offer of assistance, through its National Iranian Drilling Company.

 

"These offers include experts in various aspects of oil spill impacts, research and technical expertise, booms, chemical oil dispersants, oil pumps, skimmers, and wildlife treatment," the email read.

 

The Obama administration has been relentless in its messaging that it is doing everything possible to aggressively respond to the oil spill. But for the record, the current message to foreign governments is: Thanks but no thanks, we've got it covered.

Reality is that Obama is totally sold out to BP & unions in this country. And our leading environmental groups are heavily pro-liberal/Obama - so sold out as well by extension.

 

I used to donate to the Sierra Club, but was disgusted when I recently received a mailing from them listing Obama's election as one of their noteworthy "accomplishments." Gee, I didn't think environmentalism was supposed to be so partisan? And how is electing BP's biggest bribe-taker an environmental "achievement?" I want a refund if my money was basically a campaign contribution to this lame duck NW0 puppet!

 

And the fact that he is now not only dragging his feet on this catastrophic blunder...but ACTIVELY IMPEDING its better resolution - disgusts me beyond belief!

 

This is why I've felt the need to call out liberals too - because they don't deserve a free pass anymore than neocons. Both sides of the same false dichotomy.

Edited June 16, 2010 by vortex

[DarthBane]

Any practical ideas?

[idquest]

One of the first natural steps was to suspend all deep water driiling that was actually done recently: drilling was suspended for 6 months. Just yesterday I listened to an interview with some official from Louisiana who said people are quite unhappy with the suspension because it disrupts the whole state economy.

 

So it's not only BP, Obama and Co, but also ordinary people who want to keep dangerous drilling regardless of any possible consequences.

 

Who to blame? Us?

[reddragon]

the thing to watch is the amount of benzene entering the environment.

both from the Iceland volcano and now from the oil spill.

There are also microbs from very deep places in the earth being pumped

into the atmosphere. Some we have never been exposed to

 

Glutathione will remove Benzene from the body and Beta Glucan for microbs

 

Iodine is going to play a big role in survival

[de_paradise]

So its the Jone's Act preventing the Belgian high tech boats from helping in the spill. This makes about zero practical sense, less than zero, but it at least explains how the Saudi's were able to manage their blowout where Americans cant. I cant get my head around this, you might expect that kind of destructive decision making out of a Communist China or North Korea. These law-abiders are at a still lower cognitive level that I had previously thought. How do you risk you ecosystem for some temporary jobs? Who does that?

[Stigweard]

Worth watching:

 

BBC News - President Obama's TV address on oil spill

[joeblast]

So its the Jone's Act preventing the Belgian high tech boats from helping in the spill. This makes about zero practical sense, less than zero, but it at least explains how the Saudi's were able to manage their blowout where Americans cant. I cant get my head around this, you might expect that kind of destructive decision making out of a Communist China or North Korea. These law-abiders are at a still lower cognitive level that I had previously thought. How do you risk you ecosystem for some temporary jobs? Who does that?

Lots of things the Unions do make no sense! Unions bitch when the Jones Act is waived because they feel they're getting jipped out of "their work" - so since Obama is beholden to them ("we spent $60 million to get him elected") he's only going to piss them off once he's already pissed everyone else off - how many days in are we and the Jones act still hasnt been waived? You can knock Bush's Katrina response, but he waived that after 3 days and we had plenty of foreign help.