Stilling the mind

[tyler zambori]

Is it hard to still the mind for a whole half hour?

Is that considered an advanced practice, or maybe just

intermediate?

 

I find I haven't been able to do it at all yet, but am

hoping some better techniques will help with this.

 

I'm deciding to go with "Qigong meditation" by Dr. Yang,

with all those breathing practices.

 

has anyone gotten that far with meditation that you can

do that?

Edited May 22, 2010 by tyler zambori

[fizix]

The mind is like water; it can only be seen through clearly while still. And alas, one finds nothing is there?

If you're going to use measurement terms like "intermediate" and "advanced", I would not say that 30 minutes of stillness is either; in that case, a 72 hour full lotus fast of pure stillness would serve as an intermediate feat in perhaps the grand scheme of things. But the principles of yin and yang serve as conceptual teachings that must be experienced, to know that there is only one, and quantifying and classifying things only serves to limit oneself perception. Do not worry about what level, stage or whatever you may perceive to be at, nor the pace at which you perceive yourself to "progress". A principle of stillness is perfect patience; the world does not wait for the sage, so the sage waits for the world, and finds they are one and the same.

 

edit: and yes, I can guarantee you that more than several on this forum have achieved 30 minutes of stillness meditation, but the semantics can be debated endlessly, it is better to just stop looking for answers and practice. for true answers come without having asked questions =)

Edited May 23, 2010 by fizix

[tyler zambori]

Don't worry I'm not worried about ranks.

 

So it's kind of a beginner thing. Thank you.

Ok then, hope I can achieve it.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Stilling the mind is fairly difficult until you are able to actually identify what it IS.. most beginners have already had decent experiences of stilled minds, but didn't recognize it as such . so.. it's difficult to do something that you have no working model for.. the 'words', "Still the Mind", don't tell you much..

 

Have you ever listened to certain music, usually instrumental, and found youself simply mesmerized, i am fond of Orlental and Native American Flute music, Hindu, Middle Eastern, North African, and Afro-Celtic Instrumentals.. there's a quality that seems 'trance like', where the Mind relaxes and there's a coherence/resonance between you the experiencer and the experience of the music.. there's no 'thinking', no thought.. the Mind is still but the Awareness is vibrant receptive Alive..

 

There's a technique i recommend for a 'quick-start' to stilling the mind.. find a comfortable posture/position.. agree with yourself that you intend to meditate, and.. extend your index fingers to the point that you feel a slight bit of tension along the inside (palm-side) surface of the fingers.. the positions of the other fingers is unimportant as long as they aren't 'pointing', too.. then, just sit, or stand, or.. even move a bit.. maintain the pointing/tension.. please, let me know how it works out for you..

 

Be Well..

[Birch]

I have a dumb idea. How about you don't concern yourself with the number of minutes?

 

This being said, I'd say IME qi-gong (like an MCO) got me faster to still mind. Which just means to me that there are no more verbalized thoughts going around in it. So what's left?

 

I'm sure some might say that MCO is still a thought though. Which would be very interesting indeed. A non-verbal thought, is it still a thought?

 

It's a diverting technique as far as I can tell. Maybe for some people it would be more accessible to start with than a focusing technique? I'm sure more technical and experienced TTB's could explain the different techniques and what and how and all that.

[anatman]

"stilling the mind"or my favorite term"quieting the monkey mind"is not easy.and then for some it's a matter of wording.

 

listening to a certain type of music,or finding a focal point works for some people(i find them distracting)and for some concentration on breathing works .the one thing i find to be true is get comfortable!not only position,but what your wearing(or not,nude meditation can be very nice)and the environment around you(temp,lighting,ect).

 

the one thing is not to fight with yourself.this only causes more stress,and as a result the"monkey will be bouncing off the walls".just accept what ever thoughts happen,and then you will find the quietness you seek.

Edited May 23, 2010 by anatman

[tyler zambori]

I read somewhere recently that with Taoism, how shall I put it,

the breath is what joins the body and mind (to achieve stillness)

so that is what I want to go with. I like it.

 

Just watching the mind either puts me to sleep. or lets the

monkey mind jump all over the place even more.

 

I was reading in that qigong mediation book that one should first

get a good grounding from that technique before trying the MCO.

 

being able to get a good grounding first is something I really look

forward to.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I read somewhere recently that with Taoism, how shall I put it,

the breath is what joins the body and mind (to achieve stillness)

so that is what I want to go with. I like it.

 

Just watching the mind either puts me to sleep. or lets the

monkey mind jump all over the place even more.

 

I was reading in that qigong mediation book that one should first

get a good grounding from that technique before trying the MCO.

 

being able to get a good grounding first is something I really look

forward to.

 

In Franz Bardon's method, watching the thoughts, and having the monkey mind jump around, is the first step.

 

The thing to watch out for is attaching to the monkey mind thoughts and following them. Instead you learn to recognize them as just a shifting mass of thoughts, and not attached to them. Eventually you get more and more distant from them, and they more distant from you, until they slow to a trickle.

 

From then, in his method, you hold on type of thought exclusively (a kind of focal meditation), and from that you then let that one thought go: stillness.

 

You take as much time as you need, and you stay in that state for as long as you can. Like Kate said, don't be concerned with time. Don't say "ah, I've only been still for 2 minutes, but I need to try for 30!" Because then you are wasting 28 minutes of your life trying to get to a spot and worrying over it, and that's just counter productive.

 

I found that in the beginning stages of meditation, I actually didn't spend that much time meditating! It's more important, like TzuJanLi said, to get a good understanding of the territory first. What is stillness of mind? Spend a little time trying to find it first, and then after that worry about how to get there consistently, THEN worry about how to stay there for longer and longer.

 

Oh, and don't worry.

 

[RongzomFan]

Read my signature

[dwai]

Is it hard to still the mind for a whole half hour?

Is that considered an advanced practice, or maybe just

intermediate?

 

I find I haven't been able to do it at all yet, but am

hoping some better techniques will help with this.

 

I'm deciding to go with "Qigong meditation" by Dr. Yang,

with all those breathing practices.

 

has anyone gotten that far with meditation that you can

do that?

 

Just lie down and be still...let your body relax...melt like a slab of butter on a hot plate.

As your body relaxes, your mind will pop to the surface of your consciousness. And the stream of thoughts will flow...like debris in a babbling brook...and then, between the thoughts...stillness, clear water with no debris. Then the gap increases...and stillness increases...a few seconds at first, and then a few minutes and then...

 

And more we meditate, the sooner we get to that state. Some days are however easier, some are harder...especially those days when you "desperately" want stillness, it never comes. When you simply lay down and flow, stillness comes. I guess lying down works from me (Shavasana)...sitting works for someone else...standing for yet some other, moving for someone else yet.

[doc benway]

If the mind is truly and completely still, how would you know?

[fizix]

If the mind is truly and completely still, how would you know?

You cannot know, you cannot describe, you can only experience. When one is truly and completely still, he is at one and at will with the Tao. 'Living in this state' is the first stage of "enlightenment". But the true Tao cannot be named.

Edited May 24, 2010 by fizix

[sinno]

Opening the Heart Chakra will still the mind, trust.

[Ya Mu]

I read somewhere recently that with Taoism, how shall I put it,

the breath is what joins the body and mind (to achieve stillness)

so that is what I want to go with. I like it.

 

Just watching the mind either puts me to sleep. or lets the

monkey mind jump all over the place even more.

 

I was reading in that qigong mediation book that one should first

get a good grounding from that technique before trying the MCO.

 

being able to get a good grounding first is something I really look

forward to.

Breath control is not needed - if one starts thinking about using the breath the mind is not still. In my system we do 3 deep breaths letting each slowly out the mouth then stop using the mind with breath and breath naturally.

 

The key to "watching" is to be as a third party observer and practice non-indulgence in the thoughts. The more non-indulgence one practices the deeper the stillness.

 

Yes, MCO should be after one has created dan tian.

 

If the mind is truly and completely still, how would you know?

Funny you should mention that. One student of mine sits to meditate then all of a sudden comes out of it in exactly one hour - remembers nothing in between. But does Stillness-Movement during the session. When he said he though he had a problem and couldn't do Stillness-Movement I laughed to myself. He is a total natural.

 

What folks should remember about this subject is that everyone is different in ability to still the mind. About the only real truth that I know is that with practice it gets easier.

[Moonbar]

Yes i only realise after finishing my meditation that i may or may not have touched stillness, not during

[shaolin]

Try methods of "dropping" the mind.

If you identify with the mind, it will gain in strengh and you will "fight" to make it still and fail.

 

The dropping of the mind can be experienced when least expected, like during sudden and intense fear , when a person is "paralysed " by fear. Thats when the mind is dropped. perhaps only for a few seconds.

 

An easier way , is to focus totally on something, without thinking about it or anything else.

 

Try reading up on mindfulness meditation and then move on to other methods.

[WhiteTiger]

My personal advise to you is to get up to at least of 20 to 30 minutes of consistant stillness practice at least once daily (by yourself). Granted you have a teacher you end up doing at least 100 hours of stillness meditation (getting to a point of completely and utterly uninterrupted stillness meditation is very important) within a three months. Is what I would advise just for a bigenner but the recommendations change depending on your teacher.

 

This is the suggestion for creating the foundation. It is generally very important to creat a proper and solid foundation. I personally believe this not just for doing cultivation but rather just to be able to survive in real life.

 

What another WONDERFUL POST fizix.

 

The mind is like water; it can only be seen through clearly while still. And alas, one finds nothing is there?

If you're going to use measurement terms like "intermediate" and "advanced", I would not say that 30 minutes of stillness is either; in that case, a 72 hour full lotus fast of pure stillness would serve as an intermediate feat in perhaps the grand scheme of things. But the principles of yin and yang serve as conceptual teachings that must be experienced, to know that there is only one, and quantifying and classifying things only serves to limit oneself perception. Do not worry about what level, stage or whatever you may perceive to be at, nor the pace at which you perceive yourself to "progress". A principle of stillness is perfect patience; the world does not wait for the sage, so the sage waits for the world, and finds they are one and the same.

 

edit: and yes, I can guarantee you that more than several on this forum have achieved 30 minutes of stillness meditation, but the semantics can be debated endlessly, it is better to just stop looking for answers and practice. for true answers come without having asked questions =)

 

What another WONDERFUL POST fizix.

I couldn't agree with everything you said. I would have not said it as well as you for sure.

But granted you said it so well I'd like to add thing or two to try and make it sound better (I hope you don't mind) with the 72 hours fast of pure stillness you would also have it completely and utterly interrupted. (shutting out all outside distractions as well as having cleared any inside distractions which means you can consistantly practice to do a 72 hour fast in pure stillness)

 

fizix the edit part of the post was especially great.

[C T]

The funny thing about meditation is that there isn't really a goal (in this instance, 'a stilled mind') is there? That's what makes it worthwhile, for me at least... actually being conscious of the need to watch the movements of the mind, and then taking up the necessary practices to enable this process of observation is more rewarding imo, because a time will come when the mind naturally settles, and when that happens, all effort from then on can be set aside - and you will have achieved the ultimate... Wu Wei. After that it all comes down to getting used to this state. The Tibetan word for meditation is 'Gom', which literally means "to familiarize", or "get used to". Further to this, as one writer says, "The term 'Gom' is applied not only to the process of cultivation or development of familiarity, it is also applied to the resultant state achieved thru such processes. So, in this sense, meditation can refer both to the practice of disciplined cultivation as well as the cultivated result of such a discipline."

 

The practices, whatever they may be, or whatever you decide you are comfortable with, sort of help fine-tune the way 'mind' is perceived. Or they can be a means towards identifying what 'stillness' really means to you personally, and not what others think they mean (for themselves). I think this is very crucial. To begin, it will be good to know your level of tolerance (For some practitioners, it takes a lot to distract their state of equilibrium, while others, at the slightest influence, becomes distracted immediately). When this is known, you will begin to understand what can and cannot disturb or distract your level of stillness. This insight will come to you during the practice itself, as it will gradually be evident if you stick to the investigation of mind/stillness long enough. How long would depend on what you have mentally accumulated over the years - the lighter the baggage, the swifter one walks, as they say.

 

If you become too focussed on a goal, then things can get very tight and pressure will build and stress ensues, but if you are too laxed, then there will be dullness and stupor, and interest is lost. The process of investigation, in principle, is the exact same as tuning a string instrument, say a guitar for example: tune it too tight, and the string might snap; too loose, and the guitar loses its potential. So for optimum performance, it has to be neither too tight or too loose. This approach may be quite helpful for those who seek to begin understanding what 'stillness' really means.

 

Just some thoughts...

 

A wish: May you enjoy the journey, without being too concerned about the destination

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

It is my experience that i can actually 'let/allow' the mind relax or rest.. it seems to only be a type of conditioning that compells the mind to incessantly chatter.. after just a few sessions of effort to find stillness, the mind seems to appreciate 'time-off'..

 

It is also my experience that there is no 'goal' other than the clarity.. without the 'chatter' fragmenting the sensory input, the sensations of existence are 'connected', fluid, vibrant, symbiotic, and consistent.. sensations, unhindered by 'mind-play', reveal much more than the classic physical senses, the experience of existing becomes (W)holistic.. beyond the mind's categorizing, conceptualizing, and intellectualizing, there is the Clarity that simply refines your 'Nature'.. when you become the Life you Live, not the memories reshaped by programming..

 

Bed well..

[adept]

.

Edited July 20, 2010 by adept

[tyler zambori]

Good points, adept. I like "Wanting Enlightenment Is a Big Mistake: Teachings of Zen Master Seung San."

Even though it's Buddhist.

 

What is Unborn Buddha Mind, and how is it different than the Tao?

Sounds like Tao to me.

[suninmyeyes]

Im not too sure about stilling the mind .It sound as hard as trying to say to the Sun to stop shining.

Maybe refine the mind would be more appropriate.

The nature of the mind is to be active,it is made out of thoughts.

Dont know if this goes with any doctrines or theories ,its just my expirience.

So stilling the mind sounds useless job,like "emperrors new clothes ".

There is a life beyond the mind though.I think its like falling in love,slowly that becomes more attractive than anything else.So one can go beyond the mind into quietness.

[tyler zambori]

Im not too sure about stilling the mind .It sound as hard as trying to say to the Sun to stop shining.

Maybe refine the mind would be more appropriate.

The nature of the mind is to be active,it is made out of thoughts.

Dont know if this goes with any doctrines or theories ,its just my expirience.

So stilling the mind sounds useless job,like "emperrors new clothes ".

There is a life beyond the mind though.I think its like falling in love,slowly that becomes more attractive than anything else.So one can go beyond the mind into quietness.

 

 

Well, maybe that is a better way of putting it - what you said.

You have to still the thoughts to find the life beyond the mind.

Sounds good to me...

[adept]

.

Edited July 20, 2010 by adept

[tyler zambori]

It's exactly the same as Tao. Once names and descriptions are removed, you are left with original mind.

This is what all the sages and enlightened masters from all traditions have been pointing to from time immemorial.

 

I never met a buddhist who was able to admit that, until now.

Thanks adept.