Stilling the mind

[dwai]

It's exactly the same as Tao. Once names and descriptions are removed, you are left with original mind.

This is what all the sages and enlightened masters from all traditions have been pointing to from time immemorial.

 

well said. Bravo!

[markern]

I never met a buddhist who was able to admit that, until now.

Thanks adept.

 

I know two so that makes three in total

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

It's exactly the same as Tao. Once names and descriptions are removed, you are left with original mind.

This is what all the sages and enlightened masters from all traditions have been pointing to from time immemorial

Unfortunately, the simple Clarity of this quote is balanced with the angst generated by the preferred method of 'pointing'..

 

We each climb the same mountain, different paths, same mountain..

 

Be well..

[thelerner]

Few sages have discussed this w/ the clear lucidity of those who write South Park. There is an episode called Starvin Marvin in Space. Young Ethiopian Starvin Marvin commandeers an alien spaceship and goes to an alien planet. Its called Marklar, he meets the people there who are Marklar, and learns there language which has only one word Marklar.

 

Within the satire there is deep philosophy going on. Its definately one of there most thought provoking episodes, damn funny too.

 

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103587/?autoplay=false

 

Sometimes the best way to still the mind is to tire it out from laughing. Within laughter there is a shared sympathy for the travails of life.

 

 

Michael

[Oleg Galkin]

The mind is like water; it can only be seen through clearly while still. And alas, one finds nothing is there?

 

Wonderful thought, thank you fizix!

 

By the way, Isolation Tank (Deprivation Chamber) can be used to achieve a stillness of mind. It is quite effective for a novice. With such a tank you can achieve stillness pretty fast, but you must work hard on the meditation, because you deal with pain in your legs and your back.

[Stigweard]

Is it hard to still the mind for a whole half hour?

Is that considered an advanced practice, or maybe just

intermediate?

 

I find I haven't been able to do it at all yet, but am

hoping some better techniques will help with this.

 

I'm deciding to go with "Qigong meditation" by Dr. Yang,

with all those breathing practices.

 

has anyone gotten that far with meditation that you can

do that?

Breathe ... just breathe.

[~jK~]

 

Through the words of Zen master Bankei, I have learned how to 'enter' stillness at any time, and not just in times of formal meditation.

 

Nothing to do with rules.

 

Nothing and everything . . . Form follows finction.

If U don't know the steps , how to walk the path?

This is the difference between the 'Believers path' and those that know how to see the Way.

 

U should not have moved from the way you were imersed in... http://www.dailyzen.com/default.asp

[C T]

Breathe ... just breathe.

Breathing is easy... its traversing the mindscapes after the last breath is drawn that may prove tricky for most.

[Birch]

"It's exactly the same as Tao. Once names and descriptions are removed, you are left with original mind.

This is what all the sages and enlightened masters from all traditions have been pointing to from time immemorial."

 

Huzzah! At last

[forestofclarity]

This is work that is alive,

Effervescent, free, liberated,

Gloriously enlightened,

True, and great.

Do you think it can be attained

By people who shut the door

And sit quietly with blank minds?

 

- Liu I-Ming

[adept]

This is work that is alive,

Effervescent, free, liberated,

Gloriously enlightened,

True, and great.

Do you think it can be attained

By people who shut the door

And sit quietly with blank minds?

 

- Liu I-Ming

 

This is very good. Thank you for sharing it.

[exorcist_1699]

If making a mind still has anything to do with Tao/Buddha Heart, then maybe you can grind a brick and turn it into a mirror for during that process, more likely you smother it to death than nourishing it ,let alone enabling the appearance of the moon ...

 

In Buddhist writings ,our mind is always compared to a pool of water, a lake..etc., it is said that only by stopping the ripples arising that Enlightenment is possibe .

 

In Taoism, mind is always referred as fire , only by by initializing "genuine water" that fire can be tamed, can be nourished ..in this sense, Taoist way is clearer and more practical .

 

 

Edited June 13, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[Spectrum]

Stilling the mind at first (by primary observation of consciousness ) observed first stillness as it occurs naturally in humans as sleep and as rest (resting postures; observe ushiba sitting) for example after activity passive stretching that cools down body or after the day sleep.... before sleep elongating the breathing pattern and lengthing the cross over times and cognition in sleep states resembling in experience hypnotic forms of regressive rythmic body pararraliss wave riding. If the veils of the physical are not immediately passed through the chance of choice in lucidity enables passage. Even daily routine enters dream anyone doing anything repetitive knows this, how much more then something you love, something you do.... Something you feel, something you've looked for .... And found! Something you've remembered. Walk through walls. Teleport. Jump a Mile. Just remember after that last breath before the fall.,,,, I love the feeling of falling backwards.... I love the feeling of falling backwards, into a nice ... Soft .... Fluffy....

 

Vibration Station

 

The stillness in the motion of tai chi movement : Steel in Fluffy Cotton

 

The first active meditations that involved placing a thumbtack on the wall and fixing the gaze aiming at complete zero point stillness on the center of the tack. This could be done sitting or standing in wUji or other stance. The task is to simple fix the gaze in absolute stillness upon the tack. Any wavering of your eye is failure, continual unbroken relaxed fixed gaze is the goal. The unfettered mind? The profundities presented are unique it seems to each individual but the end results of a unity and foci of awareness into a rather elusive obvious of the center which encompasesses all centers the one and all the one to three to ten thousand the interconnected web of all interacting life forces.

 

The Flower

 

I have reflections on the minds relationship to time at this crucial juncture in the journey, the first steps in my path to stillness seemed to involve at first not allowing the mind to fixate by letting go of passing thought, then accepting new ones as they came up which slowed down everything relaxed what is happening naturally anyways then continuing to let go and accept and release. The space between thoughts dialate, the awareness bandwidth expands as the language thought slows and gives a window to other informational sources of brain activity, the consciousness carrying nerves, and other sensory carrying organs. When your mind travels from thought to thought and you've been taught that intelligence is based on what can be put into words, what exists between thoughts the emotions the layers the motions and motives the mind and mother of all things produces, poetic justice is served with speechless detail. Like looking at the code of the matrix and not knowing binary.... The student knows to listen the disciple talks w the forest the master knows the forest and all it's paths the grandmaster knows all the paths and all the forest. It may be difficult to integrate into lingual terms the psycho physical passages involved in the removal of pain from the body but it is best said we are sacks of meat on sticks that need shaking in the wind to air condition the most advanced piece of biological evolution for a diameter of eight trillion light years. Sacred geometry and the symbolism associated are not just representations but metatative overlays that produce specific energetic fields.... Fields in the sense that a snowflake is a representation of earlier vibration fields its water was exposed to... The frame work of physical reality itself. The very perceptible poly synthenasiatic cross associative awarenesses of Genius schizofrenics mystics shamans and madmen alike. It is not so subjective the objective world of shared mystical experience when you don't talk about it.

 

Silence is Bliss

Edited June 15, 2010 by Spectrum

[exorcist_1699]

The wisdom of Taoist way is that it does not try to solve mind's issue by mind itself, does not try to liberate mind by mind itself, but by the way of jing-qi-shen , by finding out the solution on the other end ... Thinking that a mind must arise from our heart or brain is some kind of bias....

It is why the importance of "yang in Kan Trigram grasping the ying of the Li Trigram " repeatedly raised...

Edited June 16, 2010 by exorcist_1699

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

This is work that is alive,

Effervescent, free, liberated,

Gloriously enlightened,

True, and great.

Do you think it can be attained

By people who shut the door

And sit quietly with blank minds?

- Liu I-Ming

The door is not shut, and the mind is not 'blank'.. the 'still mind' dances with Life as it unfolds, it dances with Clarity.. it dances without the interference of 'thinking' it knows something about the Experience of Now.. the 'still mind' is fresh and Alive, vibrant in its clarity, exhilerating in its spontaneity..

 

Be well..

[Vajrahridaya]

It's exactly the same as Tao. Once names and descriptions are removed, you are left with original mind.

This is what all the sages and enlightened masters from all traditions have been pointing to from time immemorial.

 

The Buddha did not teach that there is an original mind that pre-exists everything. Just that mind and it's phenomena are empty of inherent nature since beginningless time, as in always, regardless of recognition. This is different from saying that there is a true existence called "original mind".

 

The Tao is generally considered to be a mother of all things, the beginning, or the source of all things. A substance beyond concepts that exists from it's own side which brings forth all myriad things. This is not the same as the teaching on Buddha nature which is just saying that all minds and phenomena are equally empty of inherent existence, thus malleable and without static power of bondage, thus radiant liberation is possible for all minds equally. This is not the same understanding of how things work and what enlightenment is. All "good" paths are "good" and lead to "good" re-birth but not all paths have the same "goal" per-say. Not all traditions agree on how the cosmos works and what liberation actually is.

[Vajrahridaya]

I never met a buddhist who was able to admit that, until now.

Thanks adept.

 

That's because this is not so for a true Buddhist. To say this is so is to fall into the extreme of Eternalism. This teaching only leads to formless "still mind" absorption and not a clear understanding or experience of what inter-dependent origination/emptiness actually means, the middle path is not realized and Buddhahood is not attained. At the end of a cosmic eon, these beings will be blissfully re-absorbed into the potential for another cosmos, thus final liberation is not realized by those that believe in the Buddhanature doctrine in this extreme way.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[nac]

Meh, all traditions have their failings. From time immemorial, the Taoist stumbling block seems to be high-fiving each other over how Buddhists have an incomplete understanding of the Tao. Come on guys, don't let such a lame attachment hold you back!

[Seth Ananda]

That's because this is not so for a true Buddhist. To say this is so is to fall into the extreme of Eternalism. This teaching only leads to formless "still mind" absorption and not a clear understanding or experience of what inter-dependent origination/emptiness actually means, the middle path is not realized and Buddhahood is not attained. At the end of a cosmic eon, these beings will be blissfully re-absorbed into the potential for another cosmos, thus final liberation is not realized by those that believe in the Buddhanature doctrine in this extreme way.

Thanks Vajra now all the Blah blah starts again... Really Boring... Go drink some more beer.

Many real Buddhists Including the Dalai Lama have said that they believe that their enlightenment is the same as other traditions, just described with a different set of conceptualisations.

Non Conceptual Realisation is Non Conceptual! If you are out side concepts your out side concepts! Wow did I just repeat myself twice? twice?

[Vajrahridaya]

If making a mind still has anything to do with Tao/Buddha Heart, then maybe you can grind a brick and turn it into a mirror for during that process, more likely you smother it to death than nourishing it ,let alone enabling the appearance of the moon ...

 

In Buddhist writings ,our mind is always compared to a pool of water, a lake..etc., it is said that only by stopping the ripples arising that Enlightenment is possibe .

 

In Taoism, mind is always referred as fire , only by by initializing "genuine water" that fire can be tamed, can be nourished ..in this sense, Taoist way is clearer and more practical .

 

 

 

In Dzogchen and Vajrayana there is a different treatment. In Dzogchen, by realizing the empty nature of mind and thought through contemplation and transmission from lineage, the state of luminosity happens naturally without having to still the mind by the mind. It naturally releases into the state of Rigpa through proximity with masters and then we learn in Vajrayana to utilize the thought processes creatively through visualizations, and physical movements to come to the same conclusion of vibrant luminosity by channeling one's energy through the central channel around the spine.

[nac]

Thanks Vajra now all the Blah blah starts again... Really Boring... Go drink some more beer.

Many real Buddhists Including the Dalai Lama have said that they believe that their enlightenment is the same as other traditions, just described with a different set of conceptualisations.

Non Conceptual Realisation is Non Conceptual! If you are out side concepts your out side concepts! Wow did I just repeat myself twice? twice?

He's right in this case. I don't understand this urge to delude oneself into believing that all traditions lead to exactly the same goal. Where did the Dalai Lama say that Buddhist enlightenment is the same as in every other tradition? Because if he did say it, I hereby officially cease to believe anything the Dalai Lama tells me. Being this much of a statesman is downright unskillful IMO.

Edited June 18, 2010 by nac

[Vajrahridaya]

Thanks Vajra now all the Blah blah starts again... Really Boring... Go drink some more beer.

Many real Buddhists Including the Dalai Lama have said that they believe that their enlightenment is the same as other traditions, just described with a different set of conceptualisations.

 

The Dalai Lama has never said this. Again Seth you make these statements without any supporting evidence and when asked to procure some evidence, you don't. The Dalai Lama has said that there are "Brahma paths" that lead to higher rebirth but not complete liberation from Samsara, and I can quote the Dalai Lama on this. This is what the Buddha taught as well. Your path Seth is a Brahma path.

Non Conceptual Realisation is Non Conceptual! If you are out side concepts your out side concepts! Wow did I just repeat myself twice? twice?

 

Actually there is defined in Buddhist texts two types of non-conceptual realization. Non-substantial and substantial. Yours is substantial based upon the premise that all things are one single substance that transcends all things and concepts but is one with all of them. Buddhist realization is different and the non-conceptual realization or the "great stance" is not the same. Just because you are in a state without concepts, does not equal to liberation. There are many formless samadhi's described in the Jhanas of the Buddha where one seems to be free from concepts, but it's really just a state of focus or surrender to an infinite concept, infinite space, infinite nothingness or beyond being and non-being. The conclusion is still different, even if one seems to be in a state beyond concepts.

 

Your realization is still tainted with the extreme of Eternalism so is not the same non-conceptual realization. The subtle differences are very important, because when you get to these stages, the differences are deeply subtle.

 

I do not want to drink any beer, thank you. A little red wine might be nice... but, I don't have any, so I'll just drink my prana.

[nac]

Is speaking one's mind equivalent to lunatic raving in this community unless one accepts the official consensus?

 

[Raymond Wolter]

Meh, all traditions have their failings.

 

 

Except Buddhism?

[Vajrahridaya]

Except Buddhism?

 

Individual interpretations may have their failings, but the Buddhadharma has no failings at all. It is good in the beginning, middle and the end. The Buddhadharma was defined as the Sanatana (Eternal) Dharma (Path to Truth).