Vasectomies

[Apech]

 

Which is more selfish? A man who hides the fact of his sterility, claiming only he never wants children, or the woman who goes off her birth-control intentionally to become pregnant, forcing a man into parenthood against his wishes.

 

 

It has to be the woman - not because of her or him but because of the resultant child - the innocent third party in a relationship based on deception - not exactly an immaculate conception. Overall I would say that these are all destructive human games ... honesty is the only real path otherwise its manipulation which in the long run gets bad results.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Suddenly I remember why I don't post here much anymore. I disagree with virtually everyone on every topic.

 

I disagree sloppy. If a woman is content to be in a relationship with a man who has repeatedly explained he never wants children, but dumps him as soon as she discovers he's sterile that means she was planning on getting pregnant irregardless of his wishes. Yet if the man chooses to withhold the fact he is sterile to prevent such problems he is selfish, Malarkey! All that's ethically required imho is that you make your wishes for not having children firmly known, you are not required to tell a woman you can't have children.

 

Also note I am giving the advice to keep your sterility a secret because I made the mistake of telling my girlfriend(s) and it instantly ended the relationship as a result.

 

If a woman wants a child so bad they shouldn't date men who don't want children, and intend to stick them with children they never wanted to begin with.

 

just my $0.02

 

Selfish in the sense that if you're with a girl who you know wants a kid, you'd be more concerned with what you want and keeping your own interests at the top of the list while concealing facts from someone you're in a relationship with, rather than being upfront and honest with her.

 

She's investing so much emotionally in the relationship and you are not giving her the respect and courtesy of sharing important, life changing information. If she leaves because she wants a kid that badly, that's her right to follow through in her life choice. It's fine if you have made a different choice, but NOT if keeping it is at the expense of hers, and it's THAT which is selfish.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Okay, so I typed up a long post, but deleted it, and started writing a shorter post, but that turned out even longer, basically it came down to this:

 

You cannot base a relationship on false premises. Man or woman, you have to be honest when laying the foundation.

 

You have the moral obligation to help someone you love and are in a relationship with lead a fulfilling life. And sometimes that means breaking up and moving on to someone who will help them fulfill their lives.

 

This happened with my uncle. He started making a lot of money in his business, and started to become well known. He wanted to start up a family. He had always been really athletic (played football in high school and some in college), he had come from a large family (6 brothers and sisters, dozens of cousins). He wanted kids who were athletic and to grow up in a large family atmosphere like he did. Help each other out, meet on weekends to play football, have fun at holidays.

 

So he started looking around for women he thought were "fit". He really did. Would only date tall women from tall families, 'cause he wanted his kids to get bigger than he was (and he was already 6'2" or something). He met this woman who was smokin' hot. She was tall. Came from a good family, she also had a lot of siblings. They got along great. He was making lots of money, they just moved in to a big house.

 

Oh, and she couldn't have kids. And she knew it. My uncle did not. She hadn't told him.

 

So before they got married he would talk to her about having a lot of kids, he was like, "I grew up in a family with 7 kids, would you mind?" She was like, "oh no, no, that would be great, I also have a lot of brothers and sisters." I mean, they would talk about this at family gatherings, all the kids they were gonna have, how the family would get even bigger. She knew he wanted kids, and she just kind of went along with it, and hever told him. Then they got married.

 

And THEN he found out she couldn't have kids.

 

Well, at the time that side of the family was pretty religious, so getting a divorce was out of the question. And they were still rich and had a great house and nice cars, but my uncle still wanted kids. So they paid for all kinds of procedures to try and get my aunt pregnant. And she'd have a baby conceived and then the baby would die, and they went through this process dozens of times. Tore my uncle apart. They were finally in their late 30's before they had their first kid, and the drugs and procedure they used to have him is no longer legal today because of the risks to mother and child. The kid was really sick at first, but he turned out fine. They had a second kid two years later.

 

And that was it for the kids.

 

My uncle's no longer really religious, and divorced her last year. Their marriage really fell apart in the last years they were together. There was a lot of deceit in their marriage besides the whole child thing.

 

But it basically boils down to, my former aunt KNEW that my uncle wanted a lot of kids. She was like, yeah, no big deal. But she withheld the information. Lived in a nice house. Bought a lot of nice clothes. Went on a lot of nice cruises. And got a boatload of money in the divorce. She basically stole the life from my uncle, in no small words- not only his present life, but the life that he could have had.

 

It's one of the lowest things you can do to a person, to take a life that they HAVEN'T EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO LIVE. You aren't even giving them the opportunity.

 

So maybe you should meditate on that. Dang, this post wound up pretty long too. Sorry.

 

And look, more pie guy, people can disagree and still get along. But this is a very large issue (large in the sense that it is a very weighty thing, kids, life, choice, etc). I don't have anything against you, but I do have some stuff against some of the actions that you are suggesting.

 

I don't agree with dishonesty in either end of the relationship. If there was someone on this board saying, "my boyfriend doesn't want to have kids, but I have secretly stopped taking the pill without telling him", then I'd be telling her, "that's wrong you need to tell him." But you're the one here right now, so you're the one that I'm responding to. No hard feelings against you personally. Seriously.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Thunder_Gooch]

Sorry Sloppy,

 

I don't follow your analogy. If she disclosed up front she never wanted children they never would have been married and the problem would have been averted. I see absolutely nothing dishonest about omitting your sterility status if you've made it clear to your partner that you do not want children. Your analogy does not hold, and in such an instance it is not basing a relationship on a false premise.

 

I still advise anyone seeking a vasectomy to keep it to themselves or don't have it done in the first place. Unless of course you or your partner have already had all the kids you want. Sperm banking might be a good idea in case you decide you want kids later on. Most young and healthy women are going to want children, telling such a woman "hey I am sterile" is like saying "yeah, my penis and testicles are fused into some monstrous mutated vestigial appendage" I think a better option is to be blunt and upfront about not wanting children.

 

 

 

Okay, so I typed up a long post, but deleted it, and started writing a shorter post, but that turned out even longer, basically it came down to this:

 

You cannot base a relationship on false premises. Man or woman, you have to be honest when laying the foundation.

 

You have the moral obligation to help someone you love and are in a relationship with lead a fulfilling life. And sometimes that means breaking up and moving on to someone who will help them fulfill their lives.

 

This happened with my uncle. He started making a lot of money in his business, and started to become well known. He wanted to start up a family. He had always been really athletic (played football in high school and some in college), he had come from a large family (6 brothers and sisters, dozens of cousins). He wanted kids who were athletic and to grow up in a large family atmosphere like he did. Help each other out, meet on weekends to play football, have fun at holidays.

 

So he started looking around for women he thought were "fit". He really did. Would only date tall women from tall families, 'cause he wanted his kids to get bigger than he was (and he was already 6'2" or something). He met this woman who was smokin' hot. She was tall. Came from a good family, she also had a lot of siblings. They got along great. He was making lots of money, they just moved in to a big house.

 

Oh, and she couldn't have kids. And she knew it. My uncle did not. She hadn't told him.

 

So before they got married he would talk to her about having a lot of kids, he was like, "I grew up in a family with 7 kids, would you mind?" She was like, "oh no, no, that would be great, I also have a lot of brothers and sisters." I mean, they would talk about this at family gatherings, all the kids they were gonna have, how the family would get even bigger. She knew he wanted kids, and she just kind of went along with it, and hever told him. Then they got married.

 

And THEN he found out she couldn't have kids.

 

Well, at the time that side of the family was pretty religious, so getting a divorce was out of the question. And they were still rich and had a great house and nice cars, but my uncle still wanted kids. So they paid for all kinds of procedures to try and get my aunt pregnant. And she'd have a baby conceived and then the baby would die, and they went through this process dozens of times. Tore my uncle apart. They were finally in their late 30's before they had their first kid, and the drugs and procedure they used to have him is no longer legal today because of the risks to mother and child. The kid was really sick at first, but he turned out fine. They had a second kid two years later.

 

And that was it for the kids.

 

My uncle's no longer really religious, and divorced her last year. Their marriage really fell apart in the last years they were together. There was a lot of deceit in their marriage besides the whole child thing.

 

But it basically boils down to, my former aunt KNEW that my uncle wanted a lot of kids. She was like, yeah, no big deal. But she withheld the information. Lived in a nice house. Bought a lot of nice clothes. Went on a lot of nice cruises. And got a boatload of money in the divorce. She basically stole the life from my uncle, in no small words- not only his present life, but the life that he could have had.

 

It's one of the lowest things you can do to a person, to take a life that they HAVEN'T EVEN HAD A CHANCE TO LIVE. You aren't even giving them the opportunity.

 

So maybe you should meditate on that. Dang, this post wound up pretty long too. Sorry.

 

And look, more pie guy, people can disagree and still get along. But this is a very large issue (large in the sense that it is a very weighty thing, kids, life, choice, etc). I don't have anything against you, but I do have some stuff against some of the actions that you are suggesting.

 

I don't agree with dishonesty in either end of the relationship. If there was someone on this board saying, "my boyfriend doesn't want to have kids, but I have secretly stopped taking the pill without telling him", then I'd be telling her, "that's wrong you need to tell him." But you're the one here right now, so you're the one that I'm responding to. No hard feelings against you personally. Seriously.

Edited May 29, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sorry Sloppy,

 

I don't follow your analogy. If she disclosed up front she never wanted children they never would have been married and the problem would have been averted.

 

Yeah, that's what should have happened if she wasn't being selfish.

 

I see absolutely nothing dishonest about omitting your sterility status if you've made it clear to your partner that you do not want children. Your analogy does not hold, and in such an instance it is not basing a relationship on a false premise.

 

It comes down to a lie of omission.

 

Premises she has upon which she is building a relationship:

 

1) You do not want children.

 

ACTUAL premises of the situation:

 

1) You do not want children

2) You have had a vasectomy so cannot provide them in the usual way

 

Seeing as how the stuff she is told does not line up completely with reality, they are false premises. Don't see how it can be any other way.

 

You owe it to someone to give them ALL the information so that they can make the most INFORMED decision BEFORE they invest anything in the relationship. You should give them ALL the fine print up front. (maybe not LITERALLY up front and all at the same time, but as the issue arises, and when the subject of "do you want kids" arises, you should be giving your significant other, man or woman, all of the facts. You owe it to them)

 

If you are withholding information because you don't want to break up with her, and you are disregarding the fact that she might want kids because, they, you already told her that you didn't want to have kids, that is a pretty clear cut act of selfishness.

 

But hey, that's according to my book. You've got your own book.

 

And that's about all I can say.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Thunder_Gooch]

I don't see how not being able to have children is even a relevant issue to bring up, if you've already explicitly stated you don't want children. The ONLY possible reason it would make a difference is if she is planning on getting pregnant against your wishes. Can you give any other possible reason why it would matter, because I honestly can't think of one. Because it's the right thing to do? oh please man spare me the self righteous BS, I am sure there are plenty of skeletons in your closet you wouldn't share with your partner.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what should have happened if she wasn't being selfish.

 

 

 

It comes down to a lie of omission.

 

Premises she has upon which she is building a relationship:

 

1) You do not want children.

 

ACTUAL premises of the situation:

 

1) You do not want children

2) You have had a vasectomy so cannot provide them in the usual way

 

Seeing as how the stuff she is told does not line up completely with reality, they are false premises. Don't see how it can be any other way.

 

You owe it to someone to give them ALL the information so that they can make the most INFORMED decision BEFORE they invest anything in the relationship. You should give them ALL the fine print up front. (maybe not LITERALLY up front and all at the same time, but as the issue arises, and when the subject of "do you want kids" arises, you should be giving your significant other, man or woman, all of the facts. You owe it to them)

 

If you are withholding information because you don't want to break up with her, and you are disregarding the fact that she might want kids because, they, you already told her that you didn't want to have kids, that is a pretty clear cut act of selfishness.

 

But hey, that's according to my book. You've got your own book.

 

And that's about all I can say.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I don't see how not being able to have children is even a relevant issue to bring up, if you've already explicitly stated you don't want children.

 

I don't know, maybe because it's a fact?

 

The ONLY possible reason it would make a difference is if she is planning on getting pregnant against your wishes. Can you give any other possible reason why it would matter, because I honestly can't think of one.

 

Maybe she plans to convince you But really, because it's a fact, and she has a right to know what she's getting into.

 

Because it's the right thing to do?

 

Because, like above, she has a right to know the FULL PICTURE. She needs to be aware of all eventualities, everything that might happening, and everything that might not happen.

 

She might be thinking, "well he might change his mind in 5-10 years." She might think maybe years down the road, something that is not an option might become an option.

 

You need to explicitly tell her that it is never going to happen EVER and you have already made a commitment to not having children before you have even made a commitment to another person and you have done so by getting a vasectomy, and that if she decides to commit to you, she has to commit to the fact that having kids is NEVER going to happen (at least in the way that it usually happens).

 

Just like you need to reveal any other pertinent aspect of a relationship, and yes, having kids is a VERY pertinent aspect of a relationship.

 

And you know, if she really wants to have kids, if she wants that to be a part of her life, then she has a right to find someone else who also wants that as part of their life. And maybe that means leaving you. That's part of life, and that's something you are going to have to accept, and if you really care about that person, you should wish them well on their way.

 

oh please man spare me the self righteous BS, I am sure there are plenty of skeletons in your closet you wouldn't share with your partner.

 

Well, if it's pertinent, then I'd have to man up and tell her. If there's something that can impact our relationship, then I'd tell her. Better safe than sorry. I've inherited a genetic disorder that could drive me or our children insane when I hit 35.... uh, might be good to know.

 

But she doesn't need to know about all the porn I've watched

 

Or exactly how much of the Star Wars trilogy I have memorized

 

But she might need to know if I have another family living in Montana that I go visit every couple of months.

 

Starting to get a feel of what might be pertinent and what might not be?

 

Kids are kind of a big deal. You've said it yourself multiple times in this thread. A big enough deal to leave someone over. If they want to have kids to complete their life, WHY WOULD YOU NOT LET THEM COMPLETE THEIR LIFE?

 

Not something someone moving towards transcendence should be doing. Then again, I haven't transcended much, so maybe I'm doing it wrong

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Thunder_Gooch]

Sorry sloppy your position may be morally righteous, but it's also pretty retarded. Try being honest about everything and see how far that gets you. Hey honey! This girl I work with has the most amazing tits, if we weren't together I'd totally tap dat! Yeah it's kinda like that. Sure it's morally the right thing to do, but it's also retarded.

 

Speaking as a sterile male, I honestly see no reason to share any more information than "I don't want kids" with a potential partner. If that makes me a bad guy oh well. I'd rather be a sterile bad guy than a fertile good guy stuck paying child support for 18 years to some crazy bitch who wanted to trap herself a good man. Almost all my friends from high school married as a result of an unwanted pregnancy, and the ones I keep up with are miserable.

 

 

 

 

I don't know, maybe because it's a fact?

 

 

 

Maybe she plans to convince you But really, because it's a fact, and she has a right to know what she's getting into.

 

 

 

Because, like above, she has a right to know the FULL PICTURE. She needs to be aware of all eventualities, everything that might happening, and everything that might not happen.

 

She might be thinking, "well he might change his mind in 5-10 years." She might think maybe years down the road, something that is not an option might become an option.

 

You need to explicitly tell her that it is never going to happen EVER and you have already made a commitment to not having children before you have even made a commitment to another person and you have done so by getting a vasectomy, and that if she decides to commit to you, she has to commit to the fact that having kids is NEVER going to happen (at least in the way that it usually happens).

 

Just like you need to reveal any other pertinent aspect of a relationship, and yes, having kids is a VERY pertinent aspect of a relationship.

 

And you know, if she really wants to have kids, if she wants that to be a part of her life, then she has a right to find someone else who also wants that as part of their life. And maybe that means leaving you. That's part of life, and that's something you are going to have to accept, and if you really care about that person, you should wish them well on their way.

 

 

 

Well, if it's pertinent, then I'd have to man up and tell her. If there's something that can impact our relationship, then I'd tell her. Better safe than sorry. I've inherited a genetic disorder that could drive me or our children insane when I hit 35.... uh, might be good to know.

 

But she doesn't need to know about all the porn I've watched

 

Or exactly how much of the Star Wars trilogy I have memorized

 

But she might need to know if I have another family living in Montana that I go visit every couple of months.

 

Starting to get a feel of what might be pertinent and what might not be?

 

Kids are kind of a big deal. You've said it yourself multiple times in this thread. A big enough deal to leave someone over. If they want to have kids to complete their life, WHY WOULD YOU NOT LET THEM COMPLETE THEIR LIFE?

 

Not something someone moving towards transcendence should be doing. Then again, I haven't transcended much, so maybe I'm doing it wrong

Edited May 29, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sorry sloppy your position may be morally righteous, but it's also pretty retarded.

 

Nothing morally righteous.

 

Just courteous, respectful of the other person's feelings, with a little bit of unselfishness thrown into the mix.

 

Try being honest about everything and see how far that gets you. Hey honey! This girl I work with has the most amazing tits, if we weren't together I'd totally tap dat! Yeah it's kinda like that. Sure it's morally the right thing to do, but it's also retarded.

 

That's not what I'm saying, and you know it.

 

I said PERTINENT to the relationship. You are taking it to an extreme in a poor attempt to refute my position. A classic straw man argument. Please stop, 14 year olds do it on youtube videos.

 

If you were, say, groping that woman's nice tits, yeah, that may be something you should tell your significant other. And if she winds up leaving you, well, now you can grope all the tits you want. Oh, wait, you want a girlfriend AND you want to grope all the tits you want? That's just being selfish. Oh, wait, I think I'm making my own strawman argument. Let's just stop that why don't we?

 

Again, PERTINENT TO THE RELATIONSHIP. Big letters. PERTINENT. If you don't know what that is, I suggest you start to find out.

 

Speaking as a sterile male, I honestly see no reason to share any more information than "I don't want kids" with a potential partner.

 

Speaking as a human being who takes other peoples' feelings and plans into consideration (especially when in a relationship) that's a rather self centered viewpoint.

 

If that makes me a bad guy oh well. I'd rather be a sterile bad guy than a fertile good guy stuck paying child support for 18 years to some crazy bitch who wanted to trap herself a good man. Almost all my friends from high school married as a result of an unwanted pregnancy, and the ones I keep up with are miserable.

 

It sounds to me like you are saying just enough to keep a girl around so you can do her whenever you want without consequences. And if you tell her you're sterile, she's going to leave. Yeah, that's not selfish at all. (and that sarcasm, by the way, it IS pretty selfish)

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

I read both sides.

 

Pie definitely wins the argument over Sloppy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Disclosing you don't want kids is pertinent, disclosing you can't have kids isn't. In my opinion it's a worse sin to plan to stick a man with a child he doesn't want, than it is to omit the fact you can't have kids. If a woman understands the man's wishes of not having children clearly going into the relationship she has absolutely no room to bitch when she can't get pregnant. It is an open and shut case here amigo.

 

I'd estimate that 95% of all single, healthy, young women that haven't had children, want children. For them dating men who don't want kids isn't an issue as men aren't usually in control of reproduction. However dating a sterile man who can't provide them with children is different than only dating a man who doesn't want them.

 

I really see no weight to any of your arguments they just don't make sense, not in a logical manner anyway, perhaps some twisted idealist romantic sense which takes place in some ideal world we don't live on.

 

 

Nothing morally righteous.

 

Just courteous, respectful of the other person's feelings, with a little bit of unselfishness thrown into the mix.

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying, and you know it.

 

I said PERTINENT to the relationship. You are taking it to an extreme in a poor attempt to refute my position. A classic straw man argument. Please stop, 14 year olds do it on youtube videos.

 

If you were, say, groping that woman's nice tits, yeah, that may be something you should tell your significant other. And if she winds up leaving you, well, now you can grope all the tits you want. Oh, wait, you want a girlfriend AND you want to grope all the tits you want? That's just being selfish. Oh, wait, I think I'm making my own strawman argument. Let's just stop that why don't we?

 

Again, PERTINENT TO THE RELATIONSHIP. Big letters. PERTINENT. If you don't know what that is, I suggest you start to find out.

 

 

 

Speaking as a human being who takes other peoples' feelings and plans into consideration (especially when in a relationship) that's a rather self centered viewpoint.

 

 

 

It sounds to me like you are saying just enough to keep a girl around so you can do her whenever you want without consequences. And if you tell her you're sterile, she's going to leave. Yeah, that's not selfish at all. (and that sarcasm, by the way, it IS pretty selfish)

Edited May 29, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Sloppy Zhang]

Disclosing you don't want kids is pertinent, disclosing your can't have kids isn't. In my opinion it's a worse sin to plan to stick a man with a child he doesn't want, than it is to omit the fact you can't have kids. If a woman understands the man's wishes of not having children clearly going into the relationship she has absolutely no room to bitch when she can't get pregnant. It is an open and shut case here amigo.

 

I'd estimate that 95% of all single, healthy, young women that haven't had children, want children. For them dating men who don't want kids isn't an issue as men aren't usually in control of reproduction. However dating a sterile man who can't provide them with children is different than only dating a man who doesn't want them.

 

I really see no weight to any of your arguments they just don't make sense, not in a logical manner anyway, perhaps some twisted idealist romantic sense which takes place in some ideal world we don't live on.

 

I really so no weight to any of your arguments, they just don't make sense, not in any manner that is in any way elevated above some dude who just wants to fuck with no consequences and doesn't care about anybody's opinion other than his own. Whatever keeps the bitches in the bed is what works, right buddy?

 

You're right on the path to transcendence my friend!

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

sloppy, it is clear you have little experience with women.

 

you don't even read what pie is telling you.

Edited May 29, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

sloppy, it is clear you have little experience with women.

 

If you did, you would know that pie is 100% right.

 

Also it is very clear you don't even read what he is telling you.

 

I got enough experience to know that when you lie to them, it only hurts you.

 

[edit] And most women consider a "lie of omission" a lie.

 

[edit 2] At least in my experience

 

[edit 3] And I got enough experience with men (being one myself) to know when somebody just wants to fuck with no responsibility. I've tried to avoid saying that so far because I don't want to come across as attacking pie, but that's really what his argument sounds like. At least to me.

 

But hey, to him, my argument doesn't even make logical sense! So I guess it doesn't really matter, right?

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

sloppy, you just need more experience with women.

 

Then you will realize what pie is saying.

 

Women are analytical in everything, even to become sexually aroused. Don't feel sorry for them LOL. They can hold their own.

Edited May 29, 2010 by alwayson

[Sloppy Zhang]

sloppy, you just need more experience with women.

 

Then you will realize what pie is saying.

 

Pie's argument was better than yours.

 

Your argument is nothing but an ad hominem argument, another trick in the 14 year old youtuber handbook

[RongzomFan]

I don't understand what the harm is in saying "I don't want kids" while keeping the vasectomy secret

 

 

You are still being honest, yet keeping your medical info private

Edited May 29, 2010 by alwayson

[Thunder_Gooch]

Actually I have no interest in women. The only reason I got into a serious relationship to start off with is she claimed to share my dreams and passions which she didn't. After we moved in together the subtle talk of babies began, condoms smell bad, the pill gives me acne, just pull out it will be ok, I took matter into my own hands got a vasectomy and she was gone before I healed from the operation.

 

Since then I've pretty much kept to myself, I am not looking for even casual sex. If it gets thrown in my face I might accept it but I am not looking for relationships of any kind.

 

The only way I would consider a relationship is if I were certain that the female truly shared my dreams and aspirations and I've only met one other person like that and she wasn't even serious about it, it was more her telling me what I wanted to hear so she could move in with me.

 

Chang's master slaughtered an entire village women and children included and he's further up the transcendence ladder than almost 100% of the human population. I'd say morality has very little to do with it.

 

I am certainly not very far along, Its been three years already and I haven't even filled my LDT, but I'm trying, and when I have saved enough to buy property I plan on working part time and living only with the bare minimum for survival. That is the only reason I continue to live, the dream that maybe one day I can transcend this world.

 

 

 

 

I really so no weight to any of your arguments, they just don't make sense, not in any manner that is in any way elevated above some dude who just wants to fuck with no consequences and doesn't care about anybody's opinion other than his own. Whatever keeps the bitches in the bed is what works, right buddy?

 

You're right on the path to transcendence my friend!

Edited May 29, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Sloppy Zhang]

Actually I have no interest in women. The only reason I got into a serious relationship to start off with is she claimed to share my dreams and passions which she didn't. After we moved in together the subtle talk of babies began, condoms smell bad, the pill gives me acne, just pull out it will be ok, I took matter into my own hands got a vasectomy and she was gone before I healed from the operation.

 

Did you try talking to her about having the operation? Beforehand, I mean.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RongzomFan]

who is Chang?

[Sloppy Zhang]

who is Chang?

 

I presumed he meant John Chang.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Did you try talking to her about having the operation? Beforehand, I mean.

 

Yes of course, she went with me when I had it done. After that I was no longer attractive to her, I couldn't give her a child, she left before I had healed from surgery. We are still friends, she told me her body wants children and that it no longer desired me after I was sterile in not so many words.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes of course, she went with me when I had it done. After that I was no longer attractive to her, I couldn't give her a child, she left before I had healed from surgery. We are still friends, she told me her body wants children and that it no longer desired me after I was sterile in not so many words.

 

Good to know, thanks.

[Dreamingawake]

Pie,

If you only want to get into a relationship with a woman who shares your dreams and aspirations, then wouldn't honesty be an easy way to find out? In fact it's the only way. If you say you're sterile and she bails then she's just shown that she's not a good enough match for you. If you choose to withhold such life-changing information, then you are showing that you don't really care if she's a good match and just want to get laid.

 

If a woman leaves because you've had a vasectomy then that means your wishes' were too different for your relationship to prosper. If you withhold that information because you think she'll leave you over it, then you're proving that you don't really care what she wants out of life as long as you get what you want from her.

 

You're now advising other people to disregard the deepest dreams and aspirations of the people they're supposed to care about most!? How can you claim to love someone when clearly you couldn't care less what they want or how they feel? And your excuse is basically that you'd rather get them before they get you! That is childish and selfish in the extreme. Assuming that all women will simply trick you rather than leave demonstrates some rather serious trust issues.

[Oolong Rabbit]

I've been considering getting a vasectomy at some point in my life. What I'm wondering however is whether or not this would interfere with one's cultivation? Does anyone have any knowledge concerning this?

 

I've been through this whole gammut when I was considering it. The bottom line: vasectomies are not natural, so by extension not in accordance with the tao. Our bodies are bio-energetic systems. It's just not a good to start snipping wires. That's my 2 cents, and obviously others will disagree.