Questioning some thoughts on "God" and human progress towards enlightenment

[Guest paul walter]

Please stay off of my thread. I don't want to hear from you.

There, I reported you to the moderators. I hope they do something.

How rude.

 

 

 

Therein lies your problem Tyler. You should take help wherever it comes from-Gold just happens to be a better source than most when it comes to guiding one out of the impasses created by our "selves". Don't get me wrong, I have fundamental disagreements with Gold as well, but I'm not so reactionary as to reject the input of someone who knows the minds of others. As to the Croatian thing --all the ones I've encountered or heard of on the news seem to be quite violent, traumatised and unstable , don't know how to say it in any other way . Best, Paul.

[C T]

 

Ok ,so my teacher is really really arrogant, moreso with people who are

not his students, and who don't seem at all like good prospects.

He is not an evil cult leader type, he just doesn't have that schtick going,

not enough charisma for it. He has been known to cut off all the students

who aren't making progress and announce that he wants to be left alone

with his four real students, (I'm not one of the four), then quite a while

later come back to making a public appearance.

Teachers come in all shapes, sizes, with their particular quality and unique style of teaching. Here is a list of 12 different aspects of gurus (according to Indian thought), just so there can be a little more clarity:

 

Datuvadi Guru - One who imposes austerities and penance via the yoga of 'action'. Emphasis is put on physical exercise, special pranic practices, tummo, and so on.

 

Chandana Guru - One who emits the fragrance of sanctity. Like sandalwood vine, the scent of which is attached to only a few exclusive trees near it, and not to others, even if they grow directly next to it, such a teacher is only capable of influencing those who have a receptive nature towards the guru.

 

Vichara Guru - One who appeals to reason and logic. Dispels doubts through the comprehensive exposition of teachings, dharmas, and debates.

 

Anugraha Guru - One who teaches without words, usually by means of a glance. Is known to transform devotees who are not especially learned.

 

Parasha Guru - One liken to a touchstone. Affinity plays a big part with such a teacher. Qualities are clear only when the right contact is in place, usually happens only after years of devotion.

 

Kashyapa Guru - One who is often viewed like a mythological tortoise, capable of nourishing its young simply by staring at them. This stare, called 'kripa kataksha', can inspire the devotee to great spiritual accomplishments.

 

Chandra Guru - One who is calm and exudes a soothing effect on disciples, just like the moon.

 

Darpana Guru - One who acts like a mirror to reflect the disciples' own qualities/weaknesses, yet is himself unblemished.

 

Chayanidhi Guru - One who bestows blessings by simply being there.

 

Nadanidhi Guru - One who heightens transformation and grants blessings when there is deep devotion and surrender.

 

Kroncha Pakshi Guru - One who can grant wishes astrally. Need not have to be physically present to spread teachings.

 

Suryakanta Guru - One whose very state acts like a magnifying glass. Disciples' weaknesses become magnified and intense, and when the time is right, such a guru will burn up the accumulated bad habits and propensities of the student.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully this can be a useful guide for those who are inclined to look, or not to look, for an appropriate teacher/s. Some may aspire to be 'gurus' themselves, so this could be a good yardstick to see if you have the necessary temperament or gift. (Some gurus can encompass two or more of the qualities listed above.)

Edited May 31, 2010 by CowTao

[C T]

Therein lies your problem Tyler. You should take help wherever it comes from-Gold just happens to be a better source than most when it comes to guiding one out of the impasses created by our "selves". Don't get me wrong, I have fundamental disagreements with Gold as well, but I'm not so reactionary as to reject the input of someone who knows the minds of others. As to the Croatian thing --all the ones I've encountered or heard of on the news seem to be quite violent, traumatised and unstable , don't know how to say it in any other way . Best, Paul.

It could be that Gold reminded Tyler too much of his Croatian teacher, thereby bringing up some adverse reaction. Just a thought. Sorry.

[Stigweard]

The one that annoys

And disturbs you most of all

Call that one 'teacher.'

 

-----------

 

A 'good' teacher inspires the student to discover their own self accomplishment, in order to do that the student must effectively stalk the social conditionings that are responsible for their spiritual ensnarement. Coming face to face with the socialized addictions of our contrived personality is not a pleasant thing, quite the contrary, it is often terrifying and deeply horrifying to honestly face and acknowledge the demon-like qualities that we have allowed to harbor within ourselves.

 

Some students need the allure of sun-swept glades of paradise to make this journey, others need a swift slap up the side of the head. A 'good' teacher will know the right motivator for the student.

[suninmyeyes]

.. As to the Croatian thing --all the ones I've encountered or heard of on the news seem to be quite violent, traumatised and unstable ,

don't know how to say it in any other way . Best, Paul.

 

 

And what are you trying to say in this way?

[Marblehead]

And what are you trying to say in this way?

 

Hi Suninyoureyes,

 

Hehehe. I think he is saying that you Croates are a little crazy. I'm glad we aren't talking about we Americans - talk about crazy! (Yeah, my ancestory is German so I can't say too much to this. Hehehe.)

 

Peace & Love!

[suninmyeyes]

Hi Suninyoureyes,

 

Hehehe. I think he is saying that you Croates are a little crazy. I'm glad we aren't talking about we Americans - talk about crazy! (Yeah, my ancestory is German so I can't say too much to this. Hehehe.)

 

Peace & Love!

And maybe Paul is implying to stir away from those Balkan barbarians ..

Maybe they are not even human.But desendents of secret part of Atlantis aliens engenireed by Superpowers of Lemuria from the Moon to bring unstable trauma to the Earthlings and make them fart as the punishment till the rest of their lives.

Edited May 31, 2010 by suninmyeyes

[Marblehead]

And maybe implying to stir away from those Balkan barbarians .

Maybe they are not even human.But desendents of secret part of Atlantis aliens engenireed by Superpowers of Lemuria from the Moon to bring unstable trauma to the Earthlings and make them fart as the punishment till the rest of their lives.

 

 

Hehehe. Funny. I'm glad you saw the humor in this affair.

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

And maybe implying to stir away from those Balkan barbarians .

Maybe they are not even human.But desendents of secret part of Atlantis aliens engenireed by Superpowers of Lemuria from the Moon to bring unstable trauma to the Earthlings and make them fart as the punishment till the rest of their lives.

As John Denver used to say... "Far out!" Great imagination Sun! Go get 'em, fart and all!

[suninmyeyes]

Yes ive got farting powers dont come near me or ill infect you,i cant belive im actually writing this.hahaha.

[Marblehead]

Yes ive got farting powers dont come near me or ill infect you,i cant belive im actually writing this.hahaha.

 

Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Most girls fart in secret, don't they?

 

Not so for guys...

[tyler zambori]

Therein lies your problem Tyler. You should take help wherever it comes from-Gold just happens to be a better source than most when it comes to guiding one out of the impasses created by our "selves". Don't get me wrong, I have fundamental disagreements with Gold as well, but I'm not so reactionary as to reject the input of someone who knows the minds of others. As to the Croatian thing --all the ones I've encountered or heard of on the news seem to be quite violent, traumatised and unstable , don't know how to say it in any other way . Best, Paul.

 

 

Do not tell me whose help I should or should not take.

 

Cow Tao, what book did that come from?

 

Stigweard: demon-like? Do Taoists even believe in demons?

Edited May 31, 2010 by tyler zambori

[C T]

Hey Tyler,

 

The list above came from notes i picked up at an inter-faith dialog i attended about 20 years ago in Malaysia.

 

I just googled a minute ago to see if i could verify this list, and this came up: http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/article/what-are-the-different-types-of-gurus-as-per-our-scriptures.html - its almost similar anyway.

[3bob]

Teachers come in all shapes, sizes, with their particular quality and unique style of teaching. Here is a list of 12 different aspects of gurus (according to Indian thought), just so there can be a little more clarity:

 

Datuvadi Guru - One who imposes austerities and penance via the yoga of 'action'. Emphasis is put on physical exercise, special pranic practices, tummo, and so on.

 

Chandana Guru - One who emits the fragrance of sanctity. Like sandalwood vine, the scent of which is attached to only a few exclusive trees near it, and not to others, even if they grow directly next to it, such a teacher is only capable of influencing those who have a receptive nature towards the guru.

 

Vichara Guru - One who appeals to reason and logic. Dispels doubts through the comprehensive exposition of teachings, dharmas, and debates.

 

Anugraha Guru - One who teaches without words, usually by means of a glance. Is known to transform devotees who are not especially learned.

 

Parasha Guru - One liken to a touchstone. Affinity plays a big part with such a teacher. Qualities are clear only when the right contact is in place, usually happens only after years of devotion.

 

Kashyapa Guru - One who is often viewed like a mythological tortoise, capable of nourishing its young simply by staring at them. This stare, called 'kripa kataksha', can inspire the devotee to great spiritual accomplishments.

 

Chandra Guru - One who is calm and exudes a soothing effect on disciples, just like the moon.

 

Darpana Guru - One who acts like a mirror to reflect the disciples' own qualities/weaknesses, yet is himself unblemished.

 

Chayanidhi Guru - One who bestows blessings by simply being there.

 

Nadanidhi Guru - One who heightens transformation and grants blessings when there is deep devotion and surrender.

 

Kroncha Pakshi Guru - One who can grant wishes astrally. Need not have to be physically present to spread teachings.

 

Suryakanta Guru - One whose very state acts like a magnifying glass. Disciples' weaknesses become magnified and intense, and when the time is right, such a guru will burn up the accumulated bad habits and propensities of the student.

 

Hopefully this can be a useful guide for those who are inclined to look, or not to look, for an appropriate teacher/s. Some may aspire to be 'gurus' themselves, so this could be a good yardstick to see if you have the necessary temperament or gift. (Some gurus can encompass two or more of the qualities listed above.)

 

Great information CowTao... Jai Sat Guru

[tyler zambori]

Hey Tyler,

 

The list above came from notes i picked up at an inter-faith dialog i attended about 20 years ago in Malaysia.

 

I just googled a minute ago to see if i could verify this list, and this came up: http://www.hindujagruti.org/hinduism/knowledge/article/what-are-the-different-types-of-gurus-as-per-our-scriptures.html - its almost similar anyway.

 

Thanks Cow Tao. Hmm...maybe I'll go get Georg Feuerstein's book about

trickster gurus, might help me understand better.

[Stigweard]

Stigweard: demon-like? Do Taoists even believe in demons?

Depends which Taoists you are asking about

 

From a pure energetic vision stand point tho, our psycho-screw-ups definitely appear demonesque. It can be a humbling moment to observe this and realize, "Oh my god! That's me!"

 

[goldisheavy]

It could be that Gold reminded Tyler too much of his Croatian teacher, thereby bringing up some adverse reaction. Just a thought. Sorry.

 

Everything is possible. But I like to imagine that I don't abandon people and I don't hole myself up together with my elite band. As long as the person is curious, and I am not in need of a healing and restoration myself, I am there.

 

I also don't tell people "just do this." I might suggest something and if someone can't do what I suggest, I will be interested to know why not. I will try to listen and to understand what is causing interference. I am open to possibly discovering that my original suggestion was not a good one.

 

Another way I am not like that Croatian guy is that I don't believe I am in charge of anyone. I can be opinionated at times and a little on the fiery side, but I don't want to own people. I don't want to dominate their souls. I like when people are free and powerful. Therefore I like to empower people even if this is dangerous for my own well-being. Healthy people should have some power in my opinion. I believe it's wrong to create a culture of submissiveness.

 

Why can't people be happy with good friends? Why do they need a dominant father-like figure? I don't think I can understand that. Well, I guess I can. People want the responsibility for making them safe to fall on the shoulders of a strong and perfectly dependable man. I think such desire is spiritually regressive.

 

Tyler:

 

I don't mean to hijack your thread. I am guessing you really like the idea of God. The thing is, I am looking at the pain that the idea of God is causing to you and I have hard time keeping my mouth shut. It's obvious to me that what you believe God is, is causing tension, contradiction and dashed hopes in your life. Why doesn't God help Gurus be nicer? Seriously, why not? For someone who believes in God, that not a question that can be answered satisfactorily, without creating some kind of consternation in the psyche.

 

If a teacher shows such dismissive attitude toward you, how do you resolve it? If you simply accept the situation at face value, you probably have to believe one of the following:

 

1. "I am not good enough for my teacher. Maybe I really am as stupid as my teacher says."

 

2. "My teacher is not a good enough teacher. My teacher doesn't understand how to reach me."

 

If you keep coming back to the teacher after being dismissed, it seem more likely that you believe you really are sub-par, a substandard specimen. Well, I don't know you, but I don't believe that you're inherently incapable. I think you can achieve anything you want given enough time and effort.

 

I don't like it when people think overly poorly of themselves.

Edited June 1, 2010 by goldisheavy

[tyler zambori]

Blah blah blah

Edited July 26, 2011 by tyler zambori

[fizix]

Tyler is right Goldisheavy, you are a classic co-dependent type; I see your kind almost everyday. It would also help if you actually had any real experience in Taoist practice rather than being an armchair scholar/theorist who thinks he's validated because of a self-hyped, but subpar writing ability.

 

Go meditate.

[3bob]

"I mean seriously, if human enlightenemnt is the point of the whole game,

then why leave it to such a chance? Or could it be....that "God"

actually doesn't have a human personality with a personal interest

in what humans do or do not do to gain enlightenment? And that

is why we are left with struggling with cultural dysfunction and

personality quirks, on top of our own problems? yeah". TZ

 

Is there anything else we can do but to keep at it in one way or another?

 

Chance? I don't see it that way, to me it's all law and grace, with grace being the deepest and most amazing law.

[tyler zambori]

yet more change of opinion.

Edited July 26, 2011 by tyler zambori

[fizix]

Why doesn't God help Gurus be nicer? Seriously, why not? For someone who believes in God, that not a question that can be answered satisfactorily, without creating some kind of consternation in the psyche.

Wow, are you serious right now? Thank you for that epitomizing, exemplary statement of a sad attempt to blind one eyed men. Is this really your best rhetoric in some attempt to sway those who believe in a higher power than themselves? Fixating some hapless classic scenario of "why doesn't God help..." just wow. This type of insistence does nothing but shed psychological insight on the light of your own personal turmoil of the ego. "For someone who believes in God, that's not a question that can be answered satisfactorily, without creating some kind of consternation in the psyche..." you really have to be kidding me, you must have a long habitual, pathological history of petty manipulation and voluntarily speaking for other people who would rather not have your words put into their mouths. It's sad that you are not happy with your life, I urge you to give online discussion forums a pause, and go outside and breathe.

[sifusufi]

Tyler,

Maybe you have seen this.

Not my opinion just a feeling, always pulls up something deep down

Please view in it's entirety

 

Peace, Robert

[tyler zambori]

hi Sifusufi,

 

I watched the whole thing as you requested. It was all right ,

and I got the point, but sorry Carlos Santana can beat the crap

out of him. Carlos Santana can use those notes to play my

spine-strings like they were his...Duende duende oh

holy effing shakti up the spine, hehe.

 

Try some Carlos Santana, you'll see....

 

Thanks for sharing the video though .

Edited June 1, 2010 by tyler zambori