How does Taoist immortality work?

[C T]

Yep. right. Taoism teaches and knows nothing about death. LOL.

 

PS good to know your view on the superiority of your path

No video links to your 'girlfriend' the gogo dancer today Tao99?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think it's funny how people go around proclaiming what tao is, others who go around proclaiming that they are wrong (which implies that they know what the right tao is), occasionally revealing it, and occasionally just saying, "well if you were really in the know then you'd just know that I'm right."

 

When really all we can speak for is our own experience. Why can't we just trust in the validity of another person's experience?

 

Maybe they are lying, and they are just an internet daoist (no real practice)- in which case, why don't we humor them, they already have enough issues most likely, and there's no need to drag them out into the street and beat them over it. If you think/know that someone is full of hot air, why do you feel the need to call them out publicly on it? Why not help them understand in a constructive manner rather than trying to put them down? Look to your own self before looking to others, or something like that. Set your own house in order or some such saying.

 

Then again, maybe they are telling the truth, and they really have had experiences that make them say something, in which case we should probably be listening.

 

Neither of those options involve finger pointing.

 

Which, by the way, calls to mind that we should NOT be looking at the finger

Edited June 2, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

hey sloppy, anyone who reads 3 books and proclaims themselves worthy of proclamations on taoism deserves to know they are shallow. Those who can't see that deserve to know they are dim.

 

Maybe you can help a fellow find the light switch?

 

Gold's thread was posed as a question- not a declaration. A question that stemmed from his understanding and trying to reconcile it with stuff that other people shared.

 

He also made it pretty clear that he wanted other people to respond so we could all get a bit of understanding for what we believe and why- he presented his understanding, and invited others to share theirs.

 

As someone who doesn't get all the finer points of Daoism, I am also curious about what others have to say- but instead the people responding are doing so with finger pointing and vague declarations about destiny and people seeing what they want to see and gogo dancers. Everyone reading this thread is left to shrug and not know what's going on. But maybe that's our destiny!

 

Maybe gold has some ulterior motive in making this post. I'm going to give gold the benefit of the doubt. And maybe he did have an ulterior motive. If so, a whole bunch of people just walked into it.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Starjumper]

Haha its even more fascinating to see a forum on Taoist practices dominated by quick-draw McGraw smart mouths who do not know how to transmit in the first place! Sorry but your views do not reflect accuracy and certainly not lacking in classic finger-pointing insinuations.

 

I only transmit what I feel has value to a very few people, and only in person, words alone have no value to me. However, a good friend is trying to talk me into making some videos. This person has abilities (both martial and energy) that most people here would not be able to believe, even if they had some of these abilities demonstrated to them and on them.

 

Hope you are not thinking that you are a serious Tao cultivator, are you?

 

Thinking? I would say I'm a smart mouth who doesn't know how to transmit in the first place.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I only transmit what I feel has value to a very few people, and only in person, words alone have no value to me. However, a good friend is trying to talk me into making some videos. This person has abilities (both martial and energy) that most people here would not be able to believe, even if they had some of these abilities demonstrated to them and on them.

 

Plenty of people are able and willing to believe. In fact, plenty of people out there WANT to believe. I've got plenty of friends who are science majors at the university level, people who are studying to become doctors, very skeptical, mind oriented people. I talk to them about energy stuff, psychic phenomena, and their eyes light up and they talk about all the possibilities.

 

The problem is no one is supplying! There is a HUGE demand for this stuff. People are starting to realize that living in your head SUCKS and gets you NOWHERE. It leaves you disconnected from your family, from yourself, and from life in general.

 

The only suppliers out there are either hiding behind the curtain of "oh well this is just so uber that you just wouldn't believe me even if I showed you" or "my skillz are 2 dedlee" or they are showing their skills on people who are honestly..... well, let's just say that they already seem to be drinking the cool-aid

 

If you can fly, FLY, fly in front of people, fly to work, fly everywhere. Let people see that you can fly, and they WILL believe. (fly can be taken as a metaphor for something else that's amazing or an actual skill)

[Starjumper]

I appreciate what you are saying, Sloppy, but there are a great deal of logistics problems relating to that.

[RongzomFan]

I am also curious how you become a taoist immortal. So far, noone has said actually how to do it.

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Sloppy Zhang]

knowledge hoarders

 

But everyone has flaws. If you are always waiting for the perfect person to pass it on to and always finding flaws in someone and reasons why not to teach them.... then aren't you...... uh..... hoarding..... knowledge........ maaaaaaaayyyyyybbbbeeeeee????

 

*braces for impact*

[Sloppy Zhang]

I appreciate what you are saying, Sloppy, but there are a great deal of logistics problems relating to that.

 

I think you should go ahead and make videos. Put them on youtube. I'll subscribe. I bet a lot of people on here would subscribe just to support getting the message out. They don't necessarily have to agree with the message, heck, I might not support what your message says, but I do support people who are willing to go out there and try and genuinely help people.

 

Tao99 is glad that he didn't have the internet when he started, but personally I think that the internet lets messages reach to people who normally wouldn't have that message reached to them. If it weren't for the internet a whole lot of people wouldn't know that "Mike's Karate-Do" is a McDojo that has no real lineage of actual karate, doesn't teach you how to fight, and is a waste of time and money- they would spend years learning it the hard way, maybe at the risk of their own personal injury.

 

But now they get to find out about so many other different things in the world. Yes, there is more interference. But that's only natural. Stronger message, stronger interference. If they were in some small town in the middle of nowhere they might have less interference, sure, but there's no guarantee that they'd even receive a message in their lifetime.

 

So, yeah, the internet cuts both ways (strongly, both ways). But I'd say it's a good thing.

[Marblehead]

 

Maybe gold has some ulterior motive in making this post. I'm going to give gold the benefit of the doubt. And maybe he did have an ulterior motive. If so, a whole bunch of people just walked into it.

 

 

That caused me great laughter but I'm not going to say why.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Marblehead]

So you are saying it wasn't just a sincere question of How does Taoist immortality work? as the title says? Then this thread is going just as it should.

 

I think that Gold's question was very sincere and I also think that this thread is going exactly the way it should. Statements raise questions almost always. And this is how threads get side-tracked.

 

I don't yet see the answer to his question. Sure, it is a complex question but it is an honest one.

 

From this point on I will try to remain silent in this thread.

 

Peace & Love!

[Sloppy Zhang]

So you are saying it wasn't just a sincere question of How does Taoist immortality work? as the title says? Then this thread is going just as it should.

 

I for one DO think it's a sincere question.

 

A lot of people are acting like gold has some ulterior motive, or is pontificating, or doesn't know what's what. I think it is genuine.

 

However, if he DID have an ulterior motive, perhaps to stir up trouble, to hit people where they are vulnerable, to expose insecurities and fears that bring out peoples' irrational sides- then he succeeded in catching a whole lot of people.

 

But I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying that it was sincere.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[Aetherous]

I don't yet see the answer to his question. Sure, it is a complex question but it is an honest one.

 

Someone did answer him.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I read the whole thread again and did not find a single instance of this from Taoers. Point to a post full of 'fear, insecurity and irrational points'

 

It seemed to me that gold put a lot of thought into his original post into asking some serious questions. At first the discussion started out pretty good, but then.....

 

It's also fascinating to see a forum on Taoist practices dominated by a Muslim who hates teachers, one whose transmit button is stuck on and can't receive. More destiny. ... and so goes the world.

 

 

Haha its even more fascinating to see a forum on Taoist practices dominated by quick-draw McGraw smart mouths who do not know how to transmit in the first place! Sorry but your views do not reflect accuracy and certainly not lacking in classic finger-pointing insinuations. Hope you are not thinking that you are a serious Tao cultivator, are you? Gold Muslim? You gotta be kidding...

 

Destiny indeed!

 

 

Yep. right. Taoism teaches and knows nothing about death. LOL.

 

PS good to know your right view on the superiority of your path

 

 

Good to read on this forum people who have only read lang zu, chu zu, and poo poo and think they are in a position to deliver proclamations on Taoism LOL

 

 

No video links to your 'girlfriend' the gogo dancer today Tao99?

 

 

What do you do just LIE and call yourself great? She is not my girlfriend dummy. She is not a gogo dancer dimmy. And the motrher of the toa is way over your empty head full of smug and arrogant self superiority. Way to mock my religion lumpy. Now I'm lookin 4 u .. the black snake of karma shakes ...

 

 

hey sloppy, anyone who reads 3 books and proclaims themselves worthy of proclamations on taoism deserves to know they are shallow. Those who can't see that deserve to know they are dim. The one who has seen the canon and knows what's shallow deserves to say so.

 

 

with ur attitude .. with golds attitude.. with Cowtow's superior attitude .. pls. u need to read the T masters more.

 

 

alwayson,

 

"There are prohibitions on the Tao. The stairway of [^%$$^#] is worth ten thousand pieces of gold, If you wrongly pass it on to someone unsuitable (profiteer, smiling destroyer from another religion, dilettantes, charm seekers, thugs, knowledge hoarders, trashers, big mouths, religion competitors, etc) a star of ill omen appears; if you lightly reveal the [%$%%*&^%$], calamity hovers near."

 

by not lang zu, wu zu, or poo poo

 

 

There are many such warnings that a bottle of clear water will quickly become a bottle of muddy water if you go around doing this. And in the end, there will be no more Tao - just a bottle of muddy crap. All serious students of Tao take this admonition from the ancient master craftsman of the Tao, dead serious. You see the problem?

 

Don't look for people to hand you the Tao because you ask. They are well trained to not do this for above reasons. You don't need someone to hold your hand and feed you. You need the karmic readiness and auspicious good fortune to find the classics of the ancients (now in English) and STUDY them. Get off the internet, stop pontificating your current knowledge and actively READ. I'm so glad there was no internet whenb I started 30 years ago. No dilettantes to confuse me, just the classics of the ancient T masters. Those who are not tuned to it can read it 100 times and see nothing. Those who are ready as above can read it once and say - it is all so clear! Nobody to blame but yourself. It takes years of personal hard ground work to prepare the ground. There are no shortcuts and you can't buy it as a medal to wear around your neck for the fun of it. I hope this helps.

 

I hate to become a hypocrite and start pointing fingers, but you, Tao99, were the first to point out that the "Tao" should not be passed on to people who are hoarders of knowledge, pontificates, and all other sorts of various things. Rather than respectfully answering the questions and helping someone to "turn the lights on", you explained all the reasons not only for why someone doesn't know what the truth is, but you then explained all the reasons for why you WOULDN'T help them out.

 

All mixed in with some personal insults, something that can be perceived as a threat, as well as various other knee-jerk reactions.

 

That's not very constructive, in my humble opinion.

 

If you don't intend on helping, your lack of posts in a thread is enough. The fact that you post so much about how you aren't going to help.... well, I can't help what conclusions a variety of readers are going to make!

 

 

And on THAT note, my time as a hypocrite is drawing to a close! I don't think I need to point out anything for the sake of the readers of this thread- they will draw their own conclusions. At first I wanted to abstain from not supporting the conversations in this thread myself, but I just thought I should give a friendly wave towards you and let you know that not everyone is appreciating the way that certain elements in this conversation have unfolded.

 

But perhaps that's just the nature of this thread

 

Aaaaaaaand with that, I will also abstain from conversation unless I have something meaningful to post!

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99

[yuanqi]

Learn what the various levels of immortal actually mean in Taoism and it will answer your question. The word immortal is not to be taken literally in a Western sense, and yes, they are mentioned in the TTC.

 

EXACTLY.

 

I know when I first started reading and studying Taoist thought 22 years ago I thought about and wondered what they meant by immortal. And like starjumper said, it has many meanings. a realized being can be termed an immortal, when i say realized i am not talking about 99% of the people that give seminars and write books on the esoteric arts. they can be older than the norm and realized and be considered an immortal. One who has left body consciously can be termed immortal. or for instance, we are all immortal due to us having souls. it absolutely doesnt mean living in the physcial body for eternity. LOL who would want to anyway? if they are advanced enough to have that ability there is no way they would! which is why it doesnt mean that. there is a video on youtube about a taoist named the bee immortal if i remember correctly, that doesnt mean he is a couple thousand years old. immortal can be a term of respect for a simple sage that is accomplished.

 

My Guru could easily be termed an immortal due to His accomplishment spiritually, He is only 77. Hints He wont live to be 80 and will exit before then. Could He live to be a true immortal being on this planet. Surely. But like I said, why would He? It is the spiritual attainment that counts. Thru stilling breath one can live a long long time this is why some live an outlandish amount of years, but they live that long only because they are advanced enough to know what other work they must accomplish before departing. this way they arent cycled back. its a karmic understanding.

Edited June 2, 2010 by yuanqi

[Marblehead]

Someone did answer him.

 

Would you be kind enough to point out which post that is? I just can't seem to find a post that describes how a Taoist achieves immortality.

 

Peace & Love!

[Aetherous]

I was referring to this post by Starjumper...

 

Learn what the various levels of immortal actually mean in Taoism and it will answer your question. The word immortal is not to be taken literally in a Western sense, and yes, they are mentioned in the TTC.

 

And about how a Taoist achieves immortality...well, by doing Taoist practices.

[Tao99]

Edited July 9, 2010 by Tao99