How does Taoist immortality work?

[Marblehead]

I was referring to this post by Starjumper...

 

 

 

And about how a Taoist achieves immortality...well, by doing Taoist practices.

 

That wasn't an answer to Gold's question. All it said is that he should go find out for himself.

 

And you say "... by doing Taoist practices."

 

Which Taoist practices would these be?

 

Gold asked an honest question. I think he deserves an honest answer from any member here who claims to believe in this concept.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

Edited June 10, 2010 by Tao99

[Marblehead]

goldisheavy, on 02 June 2010 - 01:13 AM, said:

So how does the whole thing work?

 

 

Sounds like you already know the answer and have given it.

 

Why not just leave it at that instead of badgering for an answer you obviously and with such certainty already know is false and doesn't work? Seems odd.

 

My post above was my opinion and understanding only. Others here have different opinions and understandings.

 

Maybe I am out of line. I don't know. I can see only with my eyes.

 

Peace & Love!

[Aetherous]

Gold asked an honest question. I think he deserves an honest answer from any member here who claims to believe in this concept.

 

I disagree, and am happy not dealing with this topic.

[Starjumper]

I think you should go ahead and make videos. Put them on youtube. I'll subscribe. I bet a lot of people on here would subscribe just to support getting the message out. They don't necessarily have to agree with the message, heck, I might not support what your message says, but I do support people who are willing to go out there and try and genuinely help people.

 

These videos we speak of aren't what you think. I will make a DVD or two because my friend asked me to but they will only be offered within our family (kung fu family) and they will consist of a form consisting of beginner level movements of my chi kung practice (actually nei kung, but few appear to know what that actually is) for health. One may be of beginning/intermediate level practices. I don't think I should bother offering them for sale on the internet, there are already enough good chi kung videos out there.

 

There is no point in making videos of special abilities, there are also plenty of those already out there on the internet, some are real and some are tricks. Some 'believers' are fooled by the tricks but all the non believers will assure you that the real ones are tricks; so what's the point?

 

Concerning Gold, I find his frequent pontificating about the negative aspects of teachers to be misleading to others and it is annoying to me so I will not teach him anything, even if he could learn. While I agree with what he says about teachers who only teach with words, he goes too far. If he had asked what immortal means in Taoism he may well have gotten an answer from someone but instead he assumed it meant something that it doesn't and writes his lengthy diatribe about how it can't be, which I didn't read much of.

 

Same old shit, over and over and over.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Sloppy Zhang]

goldisheavy, on 02 June 2010 - 01:13 AM, said:

So how does the whole thing work?

 

 

Sounds like you already know the answer and have given it.

 

Why not just leave it at that instead of badgering for an answer you obviously and with such certainty already know is false and doesn't work? Seems odd.

 

 

My post above was my opinion and understanding only. Others here have different opinions and understandings.

 

Maybe I am out of line. I don't know. I can see only with my eyes.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

These videos we speak of aren't what you think. I will make a DVD or two because my friend asked me to but they will only be offered within our family (kung fu family) and they will consist of a form consisting of beginner level movements of my chi kung practice (actually nei kung, but few appear to know what that actually is) for health. One may be of beginning/intermediate level practices. I don't think I should bother offering them for sale on the internet, there are already enough good chi kung videos out there.

 

There is no point in making videos of special abilities, there are also plenty of those already out there on the internet, some are real and some are tricks. Some 'believers' are fooled by the tricks but all the non believers will assure you that the real ones are tricks; so what's the point?

 

Concerning Gold, I find his frequent pontificating about the negative aspects of teachers to be misleading to others and it is annoying to me so I will not teach him anything, even if he could learn. While I agree with what he says about teachers who only teach with words, he goes too far. If he had asked what immortal means in Taoism he may well have gotten an answer from someone but instead he assumed it meant something that it doesn't and writes his lengthy diatribe about how it can't be, which I didn't read much of.

 

Same old shit, over and over and over.

 

There is a lot of assumptions going on in this thread.

 

It's not always the case that people say things because they want others to think that they are right...

 

Sometimes people say stuff because they know they are wrong and hoping someone comes in and corrects them. They, for whatever reason, do not admit they do not know. Maybe because they don't know that they don't know. Maybe because they are afraid to admit they don't know. Maybe because they are too prideful to admit they don't know. The reasons could be many or few, but the fact is: they want to learn, and they want someone to instruct them.

 

But if the only people capable of instruction just look at the surface and say, "your cup is full, there's no way I can teach you"..... well, that's a loss

 

Plus there are more people that can be taught than the ones posting on this board- who knows how many people read these threads that you don't know about. I like to think of those people when posting too.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[yuanqi]

That wasn't an answer to Gold's question. All it said is that he should go find out for himself.

 

And you say "... by doing Taoist practices."

 

Which Taoist practices would these be?

 

Gold asked an honest question. I think he deserves an honest answer from any member here who claims to believe in this concept.

 

Peace & Love!

 

First the word immortal should be properly understood. Second, I agree that Gold needs an honest answer of how to do it, problem is there is NO ONE on this site or any other for that matter that actually knows the techniques exactly. Where they can sit and type it out. First do this, then do that, then after this amount of time you must do this and so on and so on. If they do then 99.9% of the time it will be the same metaphoric crap that is written in the classics and other books. This is the ENTIRE reason I switched from Taoist techniques to the Yogic methods. Very few want to achieve what should be the true goal. they are interested in Powers, or simple playing around, stilling the mind or whatever but only a few truly want to seek the ultimate. I have yet to get an answer about the elixir of immortality as the taoist call it so i can compare to what we call the divine nectar from one person on this board that supposedly knows something. talking about it and understanding how to produce it or any results for that matter are two different things. this again is why i switched to a true and tested method. scientific actually. do this and that, and you obtain this. do this techinque for this number of times and eventually this happens and so on and so on.there are two real keys- what is the technique is one and the other and just as important if not more so is the inner desire and commitment it takes to actually do what you have to do. it is easier said than done, believe me. i have some of the answers i had been looking for but it is still a matter of inner will power to sit and do it especially if your not on top of some mountain in the middle of China with nothing else to do.

 

who knows something about the taoist term immortality and what is the procedure for it??? its a hell of alot more complex than the orbit LOL the elixir isnt a pill, is it the embryo, doubtful but who knows, does it come from the upper dantien in one of the 9 chambers and drip on the tongue and is then swallowed, probably, maybe not, maybe it is just the saliva that is swallowed after gathering the 5 energies and breath and is mixed, does the tongue need to be in a certain postition to achieve this, most likely. but who knows, do you need to break thru the knots of the lower, middle and upper dantien, surely, do you concentrate soley on top of the head at a certain point? which chamber does it come from out of the nine in the upper dan tien perhaps the yellow court/niwan palace/cinnabar field where? oh, hand mudras surely they are used too? surely its just not circulating energy thru the du and ren channels, the tai ji pole comes into play at some point does it not? the heart or middle dan tian and its chambers are important along with the lower dan tian. since the third eye or hall of light is just a mirror and reflects the 6th chakra/palace of the jade emperor what needs to be done there? the 5 senses and airs have to be stilled, the stilled breath-is it ran thru the du, tai ji pole or what. everything must be internalized and is a complicated procedure so if someone does know something, then please enlighten us all........

Edited June 2, 2010 by yuanqi

[3bob]

I am curious about the vision of Taoist immortality. First a small amount of background info on where I stand with Taoism: I prefer information that's been made available in translation of Lao Tzu (Laozi), Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi) and Lieh Tzu (Liezi). Upon reading all 3 authors in translation (in English), and in some cases reading 2 or more competing translations, I come out in complete agreement with the 3 big dudes of Taoism. I agree with them. I think they raise interesting questions and tell interesting stories. And I think one can extract a lot of very valuable and practical advice for both day to day life and for esoteric practice.

 

However! And this is a big however, not only is there no mention of immortality in the 3 key Taoist texts, but what's even worse for the seekers of immortality, they appear to advocate embracing the change! All 3 talk about the seasons, and how there is a season for everything. How things take their turns. Chuang Tzu specifically talks about death and asks something to the effect of, "Is death really as bad as we think? Why not embrace it?" This seems completely opposite of the attitude of the immortality seekers (More Pie Guy, and other serious neigong practitioners, can you hear me? ). So I don't think real Taoism has anything to do with immortality. At the same time, I admit I find all the stories of immortals to be interesting and I don't dismiss them out of hand either, but this brings me to my questions.

 

So how does the whole thing work? First, do neigong practitioners really strive for immortality? It seems like many do, but I don't want to assume this. In particular, do any neigong practitioners on this forum want to become immortals?

 

When I look at this world, I think the worst part is not so much that the life is limited in duration or that we are vulnerable, but that things are bureaucratic and that fearful and insecure people take actions that are too extreme for the situation or are not strong enough for the situation (judgment errors), and all these judgment errors accumulate and create a lot of unnecessary suffering.

 

Does anyone consider that if you could live forever on this planet, life would be boring? Are you planning to be am immortal on this planet or will you fly away? Does anyone think that having a lot of personal history is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage? On the plus side, you remember a lot of lessons, let's say, but on the minus side, as an immortal you carry a lot of historical baggage that prevents you from seeing in new ways. Try to imagine someone with a 1,000,000 year history. Is that helpful?

 

As a way of a small example, when I dream, on most occasions I do not remember who I am in the waking world (unless I am lucid, in which case I cam remember everything about the body being in bed, about who I am in the waking world, and so on). For the most part, not remembering who I am outside the context of a dream is not necessarily a hindrance or something bad. I've not really been inconvenienced by it. There are some things I do want to remember, but they tend to be more of a principle than remembering all the actual life events. So for example, I want to remember in all of my dreams that I am not controlled by my dreams. But I don't necessarily care to remember that in my waking life, 4 hours before I went to sleep, I drank a glass of water. That seems silly and useless. I think most life events are useless to remember. When I die, I don't necessarily want to remember all of this life, but I do want to remember some "takeaway points" if you will. Some useful transcendent principles. I actually would like to forget all the other fluff. But as an immortal, it seems like you'd have a very long (infinite?) personal history with lots of useless junk in it.

 

I also wonder about this: where do troubles come from? For example, why do people form insane bureaucracies? Is it because I am a mortal? So if I become an immortal, suppose I go to the Jade Palace, the land of the immortals. How can I be sure it won't be a yet another crappy bureaucracy? Why does everyone seem to be assuming that every other world out there, especially the ones immortals depart to, are really nice places to be, and so nice in fact, that one would wish to stay there forever in an eternal body? I think it's kind of funny, but imagine you arrive at the Jade Palace where everyone is an immortal, and so, first of all, you're no longer special. You're not an immortal among mortals. Now you are an average Joe in this new world. They tell you to take a number. You see a big line and start waiting. Eventually you reach a little window and they hand you out a little ID card and so on.

 

If these immortals live as a society, surely they'll have conflicting interests. And if that's the case, surely they'll have bureaucracies or worse to manage all the conflicts. On the other hand, maybe immortals are not really social. Maybe immortals are like lone cats that wonder through the universe(s) alone? But then I have to ask this: if you accept a departure from society in your psyche, surely you can be very resplendently happy right here and right now without going anywhere? Social conflicts only have meaning if you really care about society, are interested in it, want to be a social participant and so forth.

 

Then, let's say you are not bothered by any social concerns. Let's say the thing that bothers you is your bodily frailty. Now, suppose you practice neigong to refine your body, or give birth to a new body. This represent a change from one body to another, through effort. If you can accomplish a change in body through effort, doesn't it make sense that you'll need to continue to expend further effort to maintain this body in good shape, and that as soon as you stop expending effort, the body will collapse and die? In other words, if the body is not already and inherently immortal, and if it is your effort that made it immortal, what makes you think the body won't require further effort to stay immortal? This also means constantly worrying about the onset of mortality. So even if you're an immortal, you will still have constant worry and concern that if you're not vigilant, you can revert to mortal condition at any time. Isn't this kind of life as much hassle as being a mortal in the first place? What if you learn to accept bodily modifications, including any and all disease, pain, and so on, and learn to transcend it internally without requiring that your body itself be made immortal? How does that option sound?

 

Another thing is belief in substance. Do you, neigong practitioners, believe in substance? In other words, do you believe you are transmuting and dealing with subtle substances in the body when you practice neigong? In my opinion, if you believe that all phenomena are backed by some universal objectively existent substance, the best way to manipulate and study such substance is with the scientific method. On the other hand, let's say you reject the idea of an ultimate universal objective substance. This would mean you believe all phenomena are manifestations of the primordial objectless awareness, like a blind man seeing rainbows and like a deaf man hearing music, etc., just visions without any substance or objects behind them. This means you can learn to control and to orchestrate these visions, but then, why bother with such substance-tied ideas as energy and energy meridians? You have so much freedom if you believe everything is just mind. So why not use that freedom? Why make up a vision of energy channels that mimic the body's shape? What is the point of that? I can understand if you believe those channels are inherently there because that's how the universal objective substance is arranged, you have to follow what's been given to you at birth. But if you don't believe there's anything objective that's been "given" to you, and if you realize your own body is just a vision, why make another vision on top of it? Why create a vision of energy meridians on top of this already visionary body? Why not, for example, simply dissolve the body, or depart from it? Why tinker with it?

 

So it seems, if you set out to tinker with the body, you must really believe in substance, but if you really believe in substance, then science is the much better way to study and to manipulate substance. But if you don't believe in substance, practices like MCO make very little sense.

 

Is it because MCO is traditional and thus, safe? Is there safety in tradition? Safety in numbers? So if you made up your own practice, you'd feel you are crazy, right? But if you follow what thousands of others have followed, you feel much safer, more sane, right? But if you are that attached to society and social conventions, then how do you expect to live a happy life as an immortal? Please refer to immortal bureaucracy above.

 

Please understand that I am not a doubting Thomas. I believe almost anything is possible. I believe you can go through walls if you want, and leave your footprints in the rock. None of this requires one to be an immortal or to practice MCO. I just think that the idea immortality and the idea that energy practice leads to immortality is... how shall I say it... not consistent with itself. It hides a lot of contradictions and it betrays a lot of hidden weakness. So for example, immortal should be fearless, but how can you develop fearlessness by attaching yourself to an old tradition for safety sake? Big contradiction there.

 

I don't want to inhibit anyone. I am not trying to convince anyone to be like me. I like the different things that people do and like I said, I do believe a lot of strange things are possible. I hope someone can respond to some of the questions I raise for my own enjoyment and elucidation, and hopefully it will be fun for other people as well.

 

That is always new, and always new is always freedom and joy!

 

"The rhinoceros finds no place in him into which to thrust its horn, nor the tiger a place in which to fix its claws, nor the weapon a place to admit its point. And for what reason? Because there is in him no place of death"

From Chapter 50 T.T.C.

Edited June 2, 2010 by 3bob

[gendao]

I am curious about the vision of Taoist immortality. First a small amount of background info on where I stand with Taoism: I prefer information that's been made available in translation of Lao Tzu (Laozi), Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi) and Lieh Tzu (Liezi). Upon reading all 3 authors in translation (in English), and in some cases reading 2 or more competing translations

 

there no mention of immortality in the 3 key Taoist texts

Zhuangzi Chapter 11:

Huang Di humbled himself by approaching from the North (a position of inferiority for an emperor) and entered by crawling forward on his knees. He then showed more respect by bowing his head to the floor before asking:

"I've heard, my dear sir, that you've reached the ultimate Dao, and I'd humbly ask you something. In what ways can I take control of my own body in order to be able continue for a long time?"

 

Guang Cheng Zi opened his eyes in amazement and sat up, saying:

"Very good! That question of yours! Let's get started, and I'll explain to you about the ultimate Dao.

"The inner essence of the ultimate Dao - deeply secluded, darkly obscure.

"The outer extremities of the ultimate Dao - dimly clouded, echoing silently.

"There's nothing to be inspected, nor anything to be heeded.

"Its spirit can be embraced through stillness.

"Its shape will adapt itself.

"You must be still; you must be quiet,

"Without exerting your body,

"Without agitating your essence,

"And only then will you be able to continue for a long time.

"When the eyes see nothing,

"The ears hear nothing,

"The mind thinks nothing,

"Your spirit will protect your body,

"And only then will your body be able to continue for a long time.

"Taking care of what's inside of you,

"Disregarding what's outside of you,

"Getting rid of all those thoughts.

"That will be the avenue for you to reach up to the great brightness, to the ultimate connection with the ultimate source of Yang. Then you can enter the door to deep seclusion and dark obscurity, to the ultimate connection with the ultimate source of Yin. Heaven and earth have structures that force compliance and Yin and Yang have hiding places for their many treasures. Carefully keep watch over your own person, and other things will thrive on their own. I guard the place where unity brings everything into harmony, and in this way I've been able to manage my body for twelve hundred years and my shape hasn't yet reached a point of decline that usually comes with old age."

 

Huang Di again lowered his head in respect and said:

"You speak words coming directly from the heavens!"

 

Guang Cheng Zi said:

"Let's go further! I've even more to tell you. That (ultimate Dao) within things can never be exhausted, yet people all tend to believe there's an end point. That within things can never be measured, yet people all tend to believe they can find the beginning and the end. One who achieves my Dao will be both higher than an emperor and lower than a king. One who misinterprets my Dao will look up to the brightness but remain in the dirt below. Today, in regards to the many things that flourish here, all of them are born from dirt and return to dirt.

 

"So, I'm going to leave you now, to enter the doorway to infinity and travel to the limits of boundlessness. I'll join with the brightness of the sun and the moon. I'll share the constancy of the sky and the earth. Whatever I come into contact with, I'll make a bright connection with! Whatever has passed me by, I'll merely observe as a shadow! People exhaust themselves and die, but I alone keep on living!"

In this way I have cultivated myself for one thousand and two hundred years, and my bodily form has undergone no decay.

 

He who fails in attaining it, in his highest attainment will see the light, but will descend and be of the Earth. At present all things are produced from the Earth and return to the Earth. Therefore I will leave you, and enter the gate of the Unending, to enjoy myself in the fields of the Illimitable. I will blend my light with that of the sun and moon, and will endure while heaven and earth endure. If men agree with my views, I will be unconscious of it; if they keep far apart from them, I will be unconscious of it; they may all die, and I will abide alone!

When the eye does not see, the ear does not hear, and the mind does not know, then your spirit will protect the body, and the body will enjoy long life. Be cautious of what is within you; block off what is outside you, for much knowledge will do you harm. Then I will lead you up above the Great Brilliance, to the source of the Perfect Yang; I will guide you through the Dark and Mvsterious Gate, to the source of the Perfect Yin. Heaven and earth have their controllers, the yin and yang their storehouses. You have only to take care and guard your own body; these other things will of themselves grow sturdy. As for myself, I guard this unity, abide in this harmony, and therefore I have kept myself alive for twelve hundred years, and never has my body suffered any decay.

 

But he who fails to attain my Way, though he may see the light above him, will remain below as dust. All the hundred creatures that flourish are born out of dust and return to dust. So I will take leave of you, to enter the gate of the inexhaustible and wander in the limitless fields, to form a triad with the light of the sun and moon, to partake in the constancy of Heaven and earth. What stands before me I mingle with, what is far from me I leave in darkness.9 All other men may die; I alone will survive!

1) Always question the assumptions...before assuming a question.

2) Talk less about, and talk more OF.

3) Talk less OF, and DO more.

4) Do less, BE more.

5) Be less...

 

Next?

Edited June 2, 2010 by vortex

[Sloppy Zhang]

Zhuangzi Chapter 11:1) Always question the assumptions...before assuming a question.

2) Talk less about, and talk more OF.

3) Talk less OF, and DO more.

4) Do less, BE more.

5) Be less...

 

Next?

 

So does this mean the thread is finished?

 

Sources and everything, great job vortex.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Marblehead]

[Marblehead]

That is always new, and always new is always freedom and joy!

 

"The rhinoceros finds no place in him into which to thrust its horn, nor the tiger a place in which to fix its claws, nor the weapon a place to admit its point. And for what reason? Because there is in him no place of death"

From Chapter 50 T.T.C.

 

Ah! But let us not forget the first line (Henricks translation):

 

1. We come out into life and go back into death.

 

It's not that they are not going to die, it is that they are not going to die before their full potential is reached because they are aware of their surroundings and they do not put their life in harm's way.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Hi Vortex,

 

Nice reference. But remember, we need to take Chuang Tzu's stories with a grain of salt. You don't really believe that the Sage was twelve hundred years old, do you?

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

So does this mean the thread is finished?

 

Sources and everything, great job vortex.

 

Hehehe. You gotta be joking. We've just got started. The opening post was made only today. Only old posts fade away, young posts live a very long time.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

Someone said we haven't even defined immortality yet ... which I think would be a good starting place.

 

I agree with Marblehead when he hit the nail on the head by saying we all die (well there's Jesus I suppose but we're not sure about him).

 

Since we all die then maybe we should ask why ... why do we all die? And if we don't die completely just the body... then why is that? And if something of us persists then what is that? And what does that tell us about who we are anyway?

 

Is physical immortality possible? Then what would a physically immortal body look like that is different to one that dies?

 

?

[Marblehead]

Hi Apepch7,

 

I'm surprised you decided to jump into this pool of mud.

 

Yes, even Jesus (the body) died. What happened to what many people call the soul? Well, of course, it went back up to Heaven.

 

Yes, there is a great difference between physical immortality and spiritual immortality.

 

I can speak only to the physical aspect because I know nothing about spiritual immortality that preserves the identity of the individual.

 

So if Gold comes back to his thread maybe we can get him to define whether he was asking about the physical or the spiritual.

 

Your questions are all valid to this topic. But I'm staying mum for the moment. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Ah! But let us not forget the first line (Henricks translation):

 

1. We come out into life and go back into death.

 

It's not that they are not going to die, it is that they are not going to die before their full potential is reached because they are aware of their surroundings and they do not put their life in harm's way.

 

Peace & Love!

 

When death dies there is no going back to it, or to life that is tied to it.

In my understanding the meaning of the first line is related to that my friend; for "When one is out of life, one is in Death" Thus the ending lines of chapter 50 point to that beyond those states commonly called life and death.

 

Om

[Marblehead]

When death dies there is no going back to it, or to life that is tied to it.

In my understanding the meaning of the first line is related to that my friend; for "When one is out of life, one is in Death" Thus the ending lines of chapter 50 point to that beyond those states commonly called life and death.

 

Om

 

Nice understanding 3bob. Prettier than mine, I must admit.

 

We come out of the Mystery into life and upon death we go back into the Mystery. (We were nothing [no thing] until born and become [no thing] at death.)

 

So yes, one could attach the concept of immortality to this but I don't because "I" no longer exist at death.

 

And I agree that the line: Because there is in him no place of death. could easily be understood that this person has gone, in his/her mind, beyond the self and has become one with the All. But isn't that just saying that they no longer fear death because, in their mind, their spiritual essence is as eternal as Tao?

 

Peace & Love!

Edited June 3, 2010 by Marblehead

[forestofclarity]

I would say that immortality is not something you gain, but something you already are. We cannot become infinite by adding finite things to ourselves--- rather, it is my belief that we are already infinite but fail to realize it.

 

So I would say that we don't gain immortality, but lose our mortality.

 

Pursue knowledge, daily gain

Pursue Tao, daily loss

[RongzomFan]

ok how do you achieve PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY for those that believe in it?

[Starjumper]

Very informative post by Vortex. The age of 1200 may be an exaggeration but it could well be accurate or close to the truth. There are other immortals in other systems, both some mysterious ones, past and present, and at least one well documented Chinese one.

 

There are seven levels or types of immortal in Taoism, and they were spelled out on my forum, but I just deleted my forum yesterday.

 

Abandon beliefs, there are too many beliefs here.

 

As long as I'm here on Goldisheavy's thread I will mention that I have an opening for a new student as one of them just flunked/was kicked out, and since the primary function of this forum is for teachers to display their wares I could do it too.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Marblehead]

I would say that immortality is not something you gain, but something you already are. We cannot become infinite by adding finite things to ourselves--- rather, it is my belief that we are already infinite but fail to realize it.

 

So I would say that we don't gain immortality, but lose our mortality.

 

Pursue knowledge, daily gain

Pursue Tao, daily loss

 

Yes, that is one of the established beliefs concerning immortality. Taoists who also hold to Buddhism would surely accept this, I would think.

 

I like your closing quote. I sometimes wish I didn't enjoy discussing Taoism so much and just lived it.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

ok how do you achieve PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY for those that believe in it?

 

Excellent specific question. I, of course, cannot answer it. Someone else will have to come in.

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

Edit to add: Nice post Starjumper7.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Marblehead

[Starjumper]

I would say that immortality is not something you gain, but something you already are.

 

It IS something you gain, it takes a lot of determination and hard work, both in this life and previous ones, it takes a golden attitude towards giving, and it takes a bunch of good luck.

 

--- rather, it is my belief that we are already infinite but fail to realize it.

 

true in a way, but not really as it applies to Taoist physical immortal, but in most ways it's religious dogmatic belief.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

Here are some of the types of immortals, and they can occur in any and probably all of the true spiritual systems.

 

* A lower level immortal person has a human flesh body, but never becomes old, he can live in the human world for as long time as he like.

 

* A higher level immortal person has matured his divine body so that he can abandon his flesh body;

 

* An even higher level immortal has not only matured his divine body, but also converted his flesh body into light (photons). he can transform himself to anything and can have many dividing bodies, so that he can appear as various forms synchronously at many places, or be invisible to human eyes.

 

* For an immortal of the level higher than the above, the whole universe is his body, all things in the universe are his manifestations. he can also appear as an individual being, but even heavenly gods cannot recognize him.

 

This information was written by my good friend, Alphone.