An article about America

[Sunya]

A bit sensational but the guy makes good points. I think its perhaps time to leave. What do you guys think who live in the States? Staying here till the bitter end?

 

http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/escape-from-america-the-grim-truth/

[Eternal_Student]

A bit sensational but the guy makes good points. I think its perhaps time to leave. What do you guys think who live in the States? Staying here till the bitter end?

 

http://www.escapefromamerica.com/2010/06/escape-from-america-the-grim-truth/

 

 

A FU#@!ng Men....

 

I have relatives in Finland and have spent time there. I can attest to their quality of living.

The US is heading into some weird territory, but by all means, keep intoxicating yourselves and watching sports. That pitcher was robbed of his no hitter, huh? You can tweet about that, but know nothing about what is happening...

 

 

What if we actually used all of our technology to clothe, feed and shelter everyone for free? What would happen after that? When will people realize they are part of a whole? That when you help someone out, you are helping yourself out...

 

[Thunder_Gooch]

That about sums it up.

 

Getting out seems nearly impossible unless you have some high paying in demand job/skill-set and plenty of money saved up.

 

I've pretty much given up trying to escape this hell hole, I'm just going focus on buying land, a camper and focus solely on my training. I don't want to devote any more of my life and or time than absolutely necessary to anything else but training.

Edited June 5, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[johndoe2012]

"Vitality, Energy, Spirit", p. 233. Liu I-Ming, Commentary on Yin Convergence:

 

"A sage said: 'If for one day you can master yourself and return to considerate behavior, the whole world will return to humanity.'

[Sunya]

A FU#@!ng Men....

 

I have relatives in Finland and have spent time there. I can attest to their quality of living.

The US is heading into some weird territory, but by all means, keep intoxicating yourselves and watching sports. That pitcher was robbed of his no hitter, huh? You can tweet about that, but know nothing about what is happening...

 

 

What if we actually used all of our technology to clothe, feed and shelter everyone for free? What would happen after that? When will people realize they are part of a whole? That when you help someone out, you are helping yourself out...

 

 

Only problem is that people aren't changing here. It's just the culture. Rabid individualism and not caring about your neighbor (and still worshiping Jesus, somehow). It's extremely difficult to get an immigrant visa anywhere decent, so we're stuck. I think the only solution is to form a small community somewhere rural and stick together and become self sustaining. I dont know..

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Only problem is that people aren't changing here. It's just the culture. Rabid individualism and not caring about your neighbor (and still worshiping Jesus, somehow). It's extremely difficult to get an immigrant visa anywhere decent, so we're stuck. I think the only solution is to form a small community somewhere rural and stick together and become self sustaining. I dont know..

 

I'm not American, I'm English but I have to say I've never looked back since leaving my country. It was surprisingly easy to do. Sell and go. I would imagine it would be a totally different situation with children though.

 

I will say what England does have over America is the health care system. But Dependant on which city you live in, many Americans do actually have a better quality of life(from those I've spoke to)than what I had in London.

 

The irony is many people, particularly in the east, seem to think that living in the west is like living in the 'land of milk and honey'. Even when I tell them otherwise they refuse to believe me. They think in simple terms such as higher salary, without considering that the cost of living makes sure most of that disappears.

 

Realistically, if I wanted to go out to a restaurant to eat in London I could do it maybe maximum 4 times a month(2 people), whereas where I am now, I could do it everyday without it making too much of a dent on my finances. Also if every month I wanted to buy a TV or other so called expensive item I could do so no problem. The only two things I couldn't afford to buy every month would be a house and a car. And what I earn isn't that much(at least in comparison to the west).

 

As far as I can make out, so called 'developed' countries are simply more expensive and more restrictive with laws ad-infinitum.

 

I remember reading a statistic a while back, and if I remember rightly, it was 1 in 4 British people want to leave the country for good.

 

Generally people leave before their thirties or in their mid fifties plus. Otherwise they have their duties to take care of. I advise before thirty, but it's better late than never.

[Sunya]

I'm not American, I'm English but I have to say I've never looked back since leaving my country. It was surprisingly easy to do. Sell and go. I would imagine it would be a totally different situation with children though.

 

I will say what England does have over America is the health care system. But Dependant on which city you live in, many Americans do actually have a better quality of life(from those I've spoke to)than what I had in London.

 

The irony is many people, particularly in the east, seem to think that living in the west is like living in the 'land of milk and honey'. Even when I tell them otherwise they refuse to believe me. They think in simple terms such as higher salary, without considering that the cost of living makes sure most of that disappears.

 

Realistically, if I wanted to go out to a restaurant to eat in London I could do it maybe maximum 4 times a month(2 people), whereas where I am now, I could do it everyday without it making too much of a dent on my finances. Also if every month I wanted to buy a TV or other so called expensive item I could do so no problem. The only two things I couldn't afford to buy every month would be a house and a car. And what I earn isn't that much(at least in comparison to the west).

 

As far as I can make out, so called 'developed' countries are simply more expensive and more restrictive with laws ad-infinitum.

 

I remember reading a statistic a while back, and if I remember rightly, it was 1 in 4 British people want to leave the country for good.

 

Generally people leave before their thirties or in their mid fifties plus. Otherwise they have their duties to take care of. I advise before thirty, but it's better late than never.

 

Yea I'm 24, just got my first job. Planning on paying off all loans, saving up some $, and then thinking about where to move. I really liked Colorado but I hear its tough finding work there since everyone there is educated. Moving to Asia is another idea but where? Nepal.. Thailand.. not sure. China is out because I can't stand the fact that religion is looked down upon. I couldn't find a place to meditate when I was studying in Nanjing.

 

Where do you live?

[NeiChuan]

Just like one man can't force the idea that he is a part of one whole on himself, he can't on society. It takes time.. Society will get there, until then drop new perspectives and plant seeds.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Yea I'm 24, just got my first job. Planning on paying off all loans, saving up some $, and then thinking about where to move. I really liked Colorado but I hear its tough finding work there since everyone there is educated. Moving to Asia is another idea but where? Nepal.. Thailand.. not sure. China is out because I can't stand the fact that religion is looked down upon. I couldn't find a place to meditate when I was studying in Nanjing.

 

Where do you live?

 

I live in China, have done for quite some years now. I lived in Thailand for about a year before; Thailand is nice, but it's somewhat like living in your own country but with an Asian flavour...at least that's what I felt. I can't say China is fantastic or anything, I just found I became somewhat addicted to the sometimes infuriating cultural differences, it's quite marked, as opposed to Thailand... at least as a comparison in my mind.

 

Maybe after you have got some money together you should take a tour of Asia to really get a good idea as to what you like and are looking for. Vietnam seems to be getting more and more popular these days, at least amongst the expats I know. I'm not really sure why myself as I have never been there, but the general idea seems to be that there are foreigners there but not enough to spoil the overall experience of the place.

 

How long did you study in Nanjing for? You must meditate outside? Or you simply prefer to meditate outside?

[C T]

I emigrated from Malaysia when i was 29. Purely by chance ! At that time the economy was just about to go to bits. Out of the blues a Malaysian entrepreneur based in Hong Kong, who have heard of the work i was doing in Malaysia, offered me a retainer of a year to do some consultation work for him over there. Grabbed the opportunity without even a second thought, for 2 reasons - the economy going pear-shaped, and just after parting ways with girlfriend of 7 years. That year in HK was an immense growth opportunity that enabled me to solidify my finances and get a firm grip on the direction i wanted to take for the coming few years. The wage i earned in that one year was equivalent to what i would have got in Malaysia working 5 years, and the beauty was that the standard of living was almost the same as Malaysia, barring accommodation (provided for by the company in HK), which could be very expensive due to drastic space/land constraints there. For your info, Mikael, HK is pretty cool as a place to live. You will have every imaginable convenience at your fingertips 24/7 - its a bit like NY, the city that never sleeps! Had a really great time there, and the people are very open. You will definitely not experience any scornful restrictions or prejudicial 'stares' as regards your spiritual preferences. Au contraire, the people of HK love Westerners from what i have seen.

 

From HK i moved to the UK for 2 years. Not much affinity for the place. Eventually took up residence in Ireland, and have been here since 1993. Lovely country with a very friendly, mostly laid-back culture. definitely not a land of milk and honey mind you. Its pretty unstable at the moment due to various major knocks to the economy recently. There was a mass exodus of Irish people to other countries a few decades ago, and its starting to happen again - its that serious. So definitely would not recommend immigrating here for the time being, generally speaking. Specifically, it could mean that the country may be experiencing some kind of a brain-drain, so there might be great opportunities here for the right 'brains'.... As far as i know, the immigration policy in Ireland is not as restrictive as say Singapore, Malaysia, Australia and the UK.

 

I would be hesitant to recommend Thailand. Its too politically unstable. Having said that, its a beautiful country though. You might be interested to know that B. Alan Wallace has set up a meditation and mind science academy in Phuket. Thailand. Might be worth looking into?

 

Check this out: http://www.phuketinternationalacademy.com/PIAMC/about_us.php

 

All the best!

[Seth Ananda]

You could try a political stunt to get out... Apply to Cuba for refugee status... tell them you are trying to escape an Insane Government...

 

Other than that, any country where the majority of the communities that make it up still live almost entirely off their own land, have a good chance to make it through any up coming rough patches...

 

South America has many good things going for it. What do you think of Cheves (lol is that how you spell it?) Also, would Border patrol be expecting Illegal immigrants trying to get across in the other direction ?

[goldisheavy]

Very interesting stories everyone, and a thought-provoking article mikaelz. I think the article is definitely exaggerating, but not terribly much. So there is some truth to it, but not enough truth to get depressed. Oh, that doesn't mean there is no reason to be depressed! I'm only talking about the article.

 

My 2c opinon:

 

The world is becoming more connected. What does this mean? It means there will be a period of economic and cultural equalization. It's going to have both positive and negative effects.

 

There are entire cultures (who shall remain nameless) that are stuck in the past. People from those cultures are scared. They see how things are changing and they want to stick to their centuries old brutal and unfair ways of life. These folks hate progress or change of any kind, good or bad change, doesn't matter to them, they will fight any change. This will have some effect on the world, but not terribly large, and yet, not so small that it will be completely invisible either.

 

Religion is in the process of being disentangled from spirituality all over the world. I view this as a positive change.

 

Economically, all the major corporations and rich people are searching for slave labor everywhere. However, there are physical limits to what people can take. And what's more, because the world is getting connected, these economic slaves are finding out how they are being abused, and they are beginning to stand up for themselves. Think Foxconn and Honda plant in China recently. That's just the very beginning! Indian labor in some industries is already either at parity or almost parity with USA. As India becomes more expensive, companies go to China. As China becomes more expensive, companies will go to Vietnam and so on. Eventually they will exhaust all the pools of slave labor. This will be a long and somewhat painful process for all concerned, except for the rich guys who will benefit nicely from this. I think some of those guys will eventually be killed by the people they've exploited out of revenge, but I am not sure if there is enough anger for a revolution or upheaval.

 

I also think that if there is going to be a major upheaval in one of the "important" countries, it will spread like wildfire to the rest of the "important" countries, due to global connectedness. I think the elites understand this, and this is why they constantly have summits like G20, G22, and their little secret get-togethers, like the Bilderberg Club (meeting soon or now in Spain) where they plan on how to mitigate the PR damage they are always doing to themselves.

 

What all this means, in my opinion, is that while you can somewhat run from a relatively worse place to a relatively better place, eventually you won't be able to run. Things will eventually equalize.

 

In USA, the fight for better healthcare is not over. It's just beginning. There is going to be back and forth. The rich fools won't easily give up their standing. Doing right by the people is definitely going to hurt some private interest. Just watch how vigorously some congresspeople in USA are fighting against Net Neutrality. It's disgusting, but the fight is far from over. In the end people will win, because resisting the will of the masses is futile. The rich, in the past, have been able to brainwash the masses so that the masses would act against their own self-interest. I don't think they'll be able to continue to do that in the foreseeable future, and the culture is going to change as a result. People will vote less and less against their own self-interests, and there will be a flattening of the power pyramid as a result.

 

So, as I see it, there is nowhere to hide from the oncoming rain of crap, er, I mean fertilizer.

 

At the same time, if I understand correctly, old Taoists practiced in extremely austere conditions. Why does Zhuangzi talk about rabbit snares? I don't think it's an accident. My guess is that some Taoists living in the caves would live that way. They'd collect water inside the caves, then they would catch rabbits using simple snares. Make fire using simple methods (friction, fire pistons, or flint stones). Cook the rabit (you can dig a hole in the ground, line the hole with clay, pour water in it, boil the water by moving hot stones from the fire into the hole, stick a rabbit in that hole. Voila! Fresh, bacteria-free rabbit soup, cooked right in the ground! If you eat the rabbit right after taking it out of the hole, it will be fine, even if you cooked it in a dirty ground, because boiling water will kill the germs. So if the ancient Taoists survived in these conditions, I think we have it really easy in comparison. Where would the ancient Taoists go for their dental plan?

 

I am not saying we shouldn't improve our culture. I think that by all means we should strive to improve our lot in life, but at the same time, if spiritual practice is all you care about, surely you'll do fine no matter what country and no matter what conditions you live in.

[markern]

You could try a political stunt to get out... Apply to Cuba for refugee status... tell them you are trying to escape an Insane Government...

 

Other than that, any country where the majority of the communities that make it up still live almost entirely off their own land, have a good chance to make it through any up coming rough patches...

 

South America has many good things going for it. What do you think of Cheves (lol is that how you spell it?) Also, would Border patrol be expecting Illegal immigrants trying to get across in the other direction ?

:lol: You just made my day with the Cuba idea! THat would even work. THey would LOVE for an american to do that. Castro even offered to send doctors to impoverished areas of the states where no one had health insurance as they send doctors to other countries in need.

 

Its spelled Chaves I think and he is messing up his country for the long term so that is not a good option.

 

I have read that there are suburbs and areas of cities in the US where there are so many alternative people it is almost difficult to find food that is not organic. I had that experience in a little town in Hawai were I spent two weeks doing yoga (it is called Hania I think). Al the food was organic, fair, short traveled, non fat and so on. Everyone who lived there were either a surfer a yogi or a washed up hippie with a drug habit. THere really should be enough places in the US were one could live agood life. If not for my family and friends back home and the lack of health insurance and free higher education I could certainly see myself living certain places in the US like New York and San Fransisco.

 

I think people are going to change a lot because of the research done into meditation, yoga and qigong. THe research done into how meditation changes the mind and how drastic the short and long term effects in terms of happiness are has really made the news many places and research into meditation is now getting much more funding. One example is the Shamatha project where a bunch of the worlds leading scientists have studies what happens when someone does shamatha 8-12 hours a day for a year in a retreat environment. They have scanned their brains on a regular basis, analysed changes in their facial expression done a bunch of psychological tests, empathy tests, blod pressure measurements and so on. Attention and committment therapy and mindfulness based cognitive therapy are two therapies both based on meditation and the psychology of meditation that are both showing way better results than conventional therapies such as conventional cognitive therapy. This is changing the whole field of psychology rapidly. In 10-15 years these therapies or stuff like it will be THE standard therapy everywhere. That means that every time someone goes to see a therapist they will be told to meditate or at least apply mindfulness and the psychology of mindfulness to their problems. Imagine what that will do to spread cultivation on a broad basis and to change how people think.

 

Sudarshan kriya, a form of pranayama, has in six studies showed as good effect against severe depression as electroshock with the side effects being better health in general whereas electroshock of course has heavy side effects. More research is on its way and once enough data is gathered this technique will start spreading as well documented and safer alternative to anti depressants. Similar will happen with other breathing techniques, yoga therapies and medical qigong. My meditation teacher is probably going to get to do a phd on the the effect of going from little to no practice to practicing meditation and qigong 1-3 hours a day for a 4-5 year period. Once more similar studies are done we will have precise data to convince people what a more high level practice can do for you.

 

What all this means is that whenever you are in contact with a psychologist, a psychiatrist or a medical doctor you will, eventually, be encouraged to do some sort of cultivation practice to cure your health problem or for general health because the data shows it to be the most efficient. Once all this data is in and docotrs and therapists start to do this corporations will also try to make their employees do these things as it reduces absence because of illness, increases IQ, increases concentration, increases efficiency and so on. It will make business sense and when it means they will make money of it they will push for it as many corporations today offer free or discounted gym memberships and so on for the same reasons. Actually some of this is being done already. A while ago I read an article about a large american corporation that had gotten 70% of their employees to meditate by paying for courses, allowing them to do it during work hours, making meditation rooms in the offices and encourageing the employees to learn it. Google is also offering courses at google university on meditation. Eventually there will also be research on what happens when a school has meditation and yoga session at the beggining of the day etc. and that will show such good results that teachers will want to implement it. Especially once the teachers understand how quiet the students will become . Actually several US schools are having mindfulness sessions with their students, walking meditation is an elective in a swedish school and many indian schools are making ALL their students do yoga. It WILL happen, it is just a matter of time. So unless society completely brakes a part this will be the future. THe critical part of this is that a fair share of the important research has been done and the rest is really on its way now and many psychologists, neuroscientists and doctors are very excited about this research and how it can be used. Read one of the mind and life dialogue books for an example.

 

So throughout your lifetime Mikaelz America will change profundly because of this. Much will be the same but there will be a fundamental change.

 

Edit:

 

Of course I know that people are lazy and don`t like doing the work but when it is what you are told to do by your doctor, therapist, health club trainer, your professor and your boss and possibly also by your teacher in school and you can do some of it for free in your working hours you will get a lot of results.

 

I also forgot to mention a couple of other forces that work in the same direction. If you dabble in the pickup community for some time you will encounter several people who encourage you to try out cultivation stuff. Aron Sleazy one of the hottest new pickup artists claims meditation was key to his success and teaches people to do zen meditation in his workshops. Cosy, a legendary poster on masf also has a heavy meditation background an talks about such stuff a lot. David Deida is pushed as one of THE books to read about realtionship. All the four central PUA sex gurus, Daniel Rose, David Shade, Stephan of ideagasms and Steve Piccus encourage meditation in some form. Meditation is also encouraged to overcome aproach anxiety by many on PU boards as well. A LOT of men spend some time in the PUA community and in the future there will be many more. Several people on thetaobums have said they started meditating because of the pua community.

 

Another big factor is the whole mulitorgasmic male thing. A lot of the bums came in to this stuff just because they read mantaks best seller and wanted multiple orgasms. On norwegian forums that have nothing to do with meditation I have noticed that both the multiple orgasms Chia style and the aneros stuff is starting to spread. It is becoming a fairly regular topic. Eventually it will spread a LOT more and that will bring more guys into cultivation. THe same can be said of tantra workshops and sexologists which will encourage more and more of these techniques in the future but already encourage quite a lot of it in many cases.

 

Also, if what they belive on this site is true: http://www.reuniting.info/

 

and I believe they are mostly correct. Then eventually we will have research proving they are right and it will lead to a huge spread of that kind of sex amongst couples.

 

 

 

 

 

-

Edited June 7, 2010 by markern

[RiverSnake]

Just like one man can't force the idea that he is a part of one whole on himself, he can't on society. It takes time.. Society will get there, until then drop new perspectives and plant seeds.

 

This whole debate reminds me of a conversation between Lao-tzu and Confucious:

 

"Confucious went to Lao-tzu and said, "I have read the Six Classics and consider myself an expert. Yet none of the seventy two rulers whom i advise have ever put my idea into practice! What am i doing wrong?

Lao-Tzu answered "You may have read the Six Classics, but keep in mind that these are only footprints, not the shoes themselves. Look at nature. Each animal reproduces according to its nature. Some are live bearers, others lays eggs, to give you a few examples. Every species has its own nature and that nature cannot be altered! The Tao cannot be stopped. When you have the Tao there isn't anything that you can't do, but if you don't have it, you can't do anything!

 

Confucious spent the nex three months alone in his house, meditating on Lao-Tzu's words. When he returned to visit the Master, he told him, "I have it now! I understand that each animal reproduces in its own unique way in accordance with its own nature. I have my own part in the harmony: when i did not teach the rulers in harmony with the natural way, how could i expect to change them?

 

Lao-Tzu replied, Now you have got it!" (Simple Taoism, Pg 18)

[Sunya]

How long did you study in Nanjing for? You must meditate outside? Or you simply prefer to meditate outside?

 

I was there for 5 months.. I meditated in my room but was just curious if I could find any meditation halls or anything. There were none in the city because China is officially atheist. That sorta bothered me. Even though I prefer to meditate alone... it just bothers me that a country is so dogmatic. Also, it bothered me when I spoke to Chinese people about Tibet. They are so brainwashed to believe that the Dalai Lama is the devil, it broke my heart. Perhaps I take these things too seriously... China was really beautiful. The language though, extremely difficult! All the characters kill me! And the cultural differences, wow. How did you manage to become fluent (I imagine you have to)? And what sort of work are you doing?

Edited June 8, 2010 by mikaelz

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I was there for 5 months.. I meditated in my room but was just curious if I could find any meditation halls or anything. There were none in the city because China is officially atheist. That sorta bothered me. Even though I prefer to meditate alone... it just bothers me that a country is so dogmatic. Also, it bothered me when I spoke to Chinese people about Tibet. They are so brainwashed to believe that the Dalai Lama is the devil, it broke my heart. Perhaps I take these things too seriously... China was really beautiful. The language though, extremely difficult! All the characters kill me! And the cultural differences, wow. How did you manage to become fluent (I imagine you have to)? And what sort of work are you doing?

 

I don't think you should let it bother you too much that China is officially atheist, because they still have mosques, temples and churches. Perhaps you can look at it another way, that they have the right to choose to be atheist in just the same way as everyone else has the right to choose to be religious. As far as I have seen all the major religions are represented in China. The practice of those religions is 'fairly' free. I say fairly, simply because each sanctioned/allowed church/temple and so on, has a communist party official attached to it. They simply don't want religion to become an impetus to revolution. It is true that they actively discourage it through education though. But I don't see any difference anymore, due to the simple fact that in my education Christianity was actively encouraged.

 

Tibet and the Dalai lama...ooohhh, that is a hot potato. There's not even a starting ground for debate with that one here due to them having no idea in the first place as to the western idea of the history. I will say this though, everything is not quite as it seems. The history between China and Tibet is quite intricate, it's not as simple as Tibet used to be independent, as far as Chinese history goes it only became independent after the British left in the early 1900's. Before that time it was considered a vassal state. I honestly can't say who is right anymore, I'm long past caring to be honest. There is some truth in the Chinese argument that the Tibetan people were kept in poverty by the 'ruling' classes(lamas)but that may only be subjective due to the Chinese considering money, wealth and possessions to be God. A further point would be if it were true that the Tibetan people were kept in poverty then why didn't China choose to do anything when it was a vassal state.

 

Honestly the whole Tibet topic is a real headache, and the main problem is the Chinese are very emotional when it comes to pieces of land, as far as I can make out they can't differentiate between themselves, their government, their country and their mother(on an emotional level). That would be, for the most part, due to very effective propaganda, but also the way the Asian mind works.

 

I wouldn't say I'm fluent in the language, I would say I'm only at an intermediate level with a few bells and whistles to spice it up a bit. I've never taken a class, In general I learn by doing, I'm a poor student where sitting down and studying is concerned. Oral Chinese isn't that difficult once you get the hang of the tones, although they like to think it is, it's actually the characters that are difficult, but they find that difficult too, there are characters that they don't even know. I'd rather not say what work I do, but it's nothing special.

[idquest]

An old joke.

 

A frequent emigrant is asked:

 

- What country do you like the most to live in?

 

- The best is on the plane between the countries...

[joeblast]

In USA, the fight for better healthcare is not over.

Best on the planet, its just expensive and the finance model doesnt accurately reflect the usage model, part of the reason for the cost. But "better?" If you're talking quality, then we're at the top here for a reason. If you're simply bemoaning that our government isnt the nanny, I guess you can always go march with the seiu and try to take the place in the direction of venezuela!

 

When someone takes care of everything for you, that simply breeds laziness within you.

 

Consequentialist theories of morality contend that moral propriety is determined by the consequences of actions, not the actions themselves. The ends justify the means.

 

A nonconsequentialist approach holds that morality is rooted in principles that must be followed, even if the outcome is made less desirable by doing so. We are a nation of laws, not a nation of the whims of man.

 

Which path do you follow?

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Best on the planet

 

Really? Explain your position on this, please.

[joeblast]

Where's the best cutting edge technology? Here. When the shit hits the fan, where do you get the fastest and best treatment? Here. Provided your insurance will cover it, of course. I wasnt talking cheapest, I wasnt talking easiest, because dealing with insurance companies is a real pain in the ass. Exclude the huge amount of factors that the WHO includes in its statistics to make the US's numbers look relatively shitty and there's quite a different picture painted on quality and expertise.

 

But let's not muddle the point, Consequentialist thinking is part of what created this debacle

Edited June 9, 2010 by joeblast

[Encephalon]

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Blasto, I be a fan of you!

[Encephalon]

Blasto, I be a fan of you!

 

 

Warning:

 

My fan club consists of perverts, cretins, and scoundrels.

[Seth Ananda]

 

 

Its spelled Chaves I think and he is messing up his country for the long term so that is not a good option.

 

 

I think people are going to change a lot because of the research done into meditation, yoga and qigong. THe research done into how meditation changes the mind and how drastic the short and long term effects in terms of happiness are has really made the news many places and research into meditation is now getting much more funding. One example is the Shamatha project where a bunch of the worlds leading scientists have studies what happens when someone does shamatha 8-12 hours a day for a year in a retreat environment. They have scanned their brains on a regular basis, analysed changes in their facial expression done a bunch of psychological tests, empathy tests, blod pressure measurements and so on. Attention and committment therapy and mindfulness based cognitive therapy are two therapies both based on meditation and the psychology of meditation that are both showing way better results than conventional therapies such as conventional cognitive therapy. This is changing the whole field of psychology rapidly. In 10-15 years these therapies or stuff like it will be THE standard therapy everywhere. That means that every time someone goes to see a therapist they will be told to meditate or at least apply mindfulness and the psychology of mindfulness to their problems. Imagine what that will do to spread cultivation on a broad basis and to change how people think.

 

Sudarshan kriya, a form of pranayama, has in six studies showed as good effect against severe depression as electroshock with the side effects being better health in general whereas electroshock of course has heavy side effects. More research is on its way and once enough data is gathered this technique will start spreading as well documented and safer alternative to anti depressants. Similar will happen with other breathing techniques, yoga therapies and medical qigong. My meditation teacher is probably going to get to do a phd on the the effect of going from little to no practice to practicing meditation and qigong 1-3 hours a day for a 4-5 year period. Once more similar studies are done we will have precise data to convince people what a more high level practice can do for you.

 

What all this means is that whenever you are in contact with a psychologist, a psychiatrist or a medical doctor you will, eventually, be encouraged to do some sort of cultivation practice to cure your health problem or for general health because the data shows it to be the most efficient. Once all this data is in and docotrs and therapists start to do this corporations will also try to make their employees do these things as it reduces absence because of illness, increases IQ, increases concentration, increases efficiency and so on. It will make business sense and when it means they will make money of it they will push for it as many corporations today offer free or discounted gym memberships and so on for the same reasons. Actually some of this is being done already. A while ago I read an article about a large american corporation that had gotten 70% of their employees to meditate by paying for courses, allowing them to do it during work hours, making meditation rooms in the offices and encourageing the employees to learn it. Google is also offering courses at google university on meditation. Eventually there will also be research on what happens when a school has meditation and yoga session at the beggining of the day etc. and that will show such good results that teachers will want to implement it. Especially once the teachers understand how quiet the students will become . Actually several US schools are having mindfulness sessions with their students, walking meditation is an elective in a swedish school and many indian schools are making ALL their students do yoga. It WILL happen, it is just a matter of time. So unless society completely brakes a part this will be the future. THe critical part of this is that a fair share of the important research has been done and the rest is really on its way now and many psychologists, neuroscientists and doctors are very excited about this research and how it can be used. Read one of the mind and life dialogue books for an example.

 

 

I also forgot to mention a couple of other forces that work in the same direction. If you dabble in the pickup community for some time you will encounter several people who encourage you to try out cultivation stuff. Aron Sleazy one of the hottest new pickup artists claims meditation was key to his success and teaches people to do zen meditation in his workshops. Cosy, a legendary poster on masf also has a heavy meditation background an talks about such stuff a lot. David Deida is pushed as one of THE books to read about realtionship. All the four central PUA sex gurus, Daniel Rose, David Shade, Stephan of ideagasms and Steve Piccus encourage meditation in some form. Meditation is also encouraged to overcome aproach anxiety by many on PU boards as well. A LOT of men spend some time in the PUA community and in the future there will be many more. Several people on thetaobums have said they started meditating because of the pua community.

 

Another big factor is the whole mulitorgasmic male thing. A lot of the bums came in to this stuff just because they read mantaks best seller and wanted multiple orgasms. On norwegian forums that have nothing to do with meditation I have noticed that both the multiple orgasms Chia style and the aneros stuff is starting to spread. It is becoming a fairly regular topic. Eventually it will spread a LOT more and that will bring more guys into cultivation. THe same can be said of tantra workshops and sexologists which will encourage more and more of these techniques in the future but already encourage quite a lot of it in many cases.

 

Also, if what they belive on this site is true: http://www.reuniting.info/

 

and I believe they are mostly correct. Then eventually we will have research proving they are right and it will lead to a huge spread of that kind of sex amongst couples.

 

 

 

Cool

So its spelled Chaves. From what I have heard from Travellers through that Area and from some South American friends, Its American propaganda saying he is screwing it, and American Interest's trying to make Him fail...

My friends said there are grass roots community gardening projects springing up Everywhere there, and more often than not they are permaculture gardens.

They have said the community effort is astounding on many levels, from capitalist/socialist business enterprises where every member of a business gets paid the same as the others, from janitor to chairman, equal cut of the profits, which of course means every member feels very Inspired to make the business work...

 

On going to see a shrink, In the DSM-4 all mystical experiences are considered pathology with the various medications to be prescribed. But all this is changing.

in 2013 the DSM-5 will be released, which considers Mystical experiences, Shamanic journeys... to be valid psychological experiences not requiring medication, but maybe requiring the expertise of a skilled navigator in these areas...

 

And Sex, Awesome!

I do agree that the Sacred Sex Industry and Pua stuff are reaching a lot of people and instilling many Ideas with a spiritual or potentially spiritual leaning to them. This is at the same time though where Porn is completely destroying many Mens ability to love or connect with a Woman.

 

Its Interesting watching as more people start trying to become conscious, society has a pull in the other direction, where possibly many more people start priding themselves on being Dumb Asses. Look at the sudden spate of Hollywood movies portraying complete Dumb Asses as Hero figures... To me it still looks like the Majority are leading towards the future portrayed by Idiocracy (a badly written, acted and directed film with brilliant social commentary)

 

but who knows... I do think Consciousness will win over in the end...

[Sunya]

 

On going to see a shrink, In the DSM-4 all mystical experiences are considered pathology with the various medications to be prescribed. But all this is changing.

in 2013 the DSM-5 will be released, which considers Mystical experiences, Shamanic journeys... to be valid psychological experiences not requiring medication, but maybe requiring the expertise of a skilled navigator in these areas...

 

 

Are you sure? I can't really find anything.

 

http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevisions/Pages/proposedrevision.aspx?rid=149