Zhan zhuang

[Spectrum]

Good thread! Enjoying the variety to the levels of discussion.

 

A Way was pointed to me. Taking Walks into different parts of the Forest to Practice. Specifically divining your Spots for Practice w your foundation. Observing Sensing Listening Energies. After a solid foundation sources of Vital Information can easily go un noticed, but very literally spring up from under you or pull you right down. It is very easy to get distracted w technical details of posture when what we are aiming for is a very simply harmony. Posture has a Way of taking care of itself when the practioner Faces each direction Whole Heartedly, Ready to take a single step. Our Feet are the first thing to arrive wherever we go! Feel the ground under your feet!

 

I wonder how what is below, psychophysically manifests above....

Edited June 17, 2010 by Spectrum

[ejr1069]

I am teaching my yoga instructor the Baduanjin. She sees me warm up with these 8 movements prior to class and says that she feels great energy from my hands when they point towards her. So I told her that I would teach her the movements.

 

I would also like to know, are there any Zhan Zhuang poses that can be done with a partner?

[Spectrum]

It is true the Pile Standing and The Eight Brocades are a kind of standing Yoga.

 

I would venture to say any of the fixed stance push hands circles would be suitible for starters, and once you find a flow w the handwork incorporate your foot work.

[RiverSnake]

I've been watching Lam Kam Chuens Stand still and be fit videos on youtube. Really good stuff, he gives good advice on form that are helping me better my posture when practicing.

 

-Found a good warm up exercise in Day 3, very refreshing and energizing.

 

[Old Man Contradiction]

I have been practicing Master Lam Cam Chuen's "Way of Energy" Zhan Zhuang for almost 3 years now. Also practice yoga and sometimes Kunlun. My Zhan Zhuang sessions have become very intense, my whole body or various parts of my body spontaneously shake, sometimes violently. I build much heat and sweat too. Having numbness in forhead and brow frequently and am often very tired.

 

Could I be developing too much chi for my nervous system to handle? Might that explain the tiredness? I am definitely experiencing Kundalini, or at least kundalini on the rise, maybe not a full blown Kundalini experience. I feel that I am on the verge of a breakrhough in consciousness. But I struggle with the tiredness. It truly impacts my ability to focus and work.

 

I am curious if anyone else has experienced this too.

 

Have you ever swatted a fly? You are holding your object of choice, the fly buzzes to land on the table in front of you. You stay cool, but completely focused. You re-affirm your grip, and prepare your body to strike quick and relaxed. This moment, right before striking the fly. This is the way you want to be while standing. Make it real. Maybe even more intense, like waiting for the bus to get a 10 feet in front of you before diving out of the way. Your body, sure as shit, would be energized and ready to fly if a bus was headed at you.

 

When standing, you want your body to be completely prepared to move, and to move fast. This takes more energy, but gives you more energy.

 

"If you don't use it you lose it."

 

And remember, the best way to learn is to do the natural action. Go shoot disks. Take note of the state of your body and mind after you say the word," Pull!". Concentrated mind, awake nervous system, relaxed but prepared body. Maintain that while standing and you'll have more energy.

 

Standing should make you feel more energetic, not more tired.

 

If you feel tired, don't do practices. Rest.

 

If you're still tired, look at other things that could cause it...

 

At a higher level of zhan zhuang, it becomes more effortless, with energy easily flowing and integrating your whole body and beyond.

 

"Effortless" is a common misconception. At higher levels of zhan zhuang, the actual amount of physical "effort" or exertion should be GREATER. However, it should be natural to your body, and therefor more effortless to your mind.

[Aetherous]

"Effortless" is a common misconception. At higher levels of zhan zhuang, the actual amount of physical "effort" or exertion should be GREATER. However, it should be natural to your body, and therefor more effortless to your mind.

 

You are at a high level of zhan zhuang? Lets see a video!

[Old Man Contradiction]

You are at a high level of zhan zhuang? Lets see a video!

 

You misrepresent what I said. I said at higher levels. Learning to relax and maintain structure is step one. Relative to that step, anything beyond those two simple requirements could be a considered higher level. When you start putting in the principals of the martial arts into your standing, the effort can be immense and the pain excruciating. I, also, most definitely did not attribute a title of "high level" to myself. Does it take a great baseball player to recognize a great baseball player? I'm no great baseball player, but I can easily see when someone is great at the game. If you would like to discuss zhan zhuang PM me. Maybe we can ask each other questions instead of recite our assumptions.

[Old Man Contradiction]

I would also like to know, are there any Zhan Zhuang poses that can be done with a partner?

 

Maybe not what you are looking for, but what you are asking for could be a description of "push hands" and exercises like push hands.

[Aetherous]

Edited June 28, 2010 by Scotty

[johndoe2012]

Is contraction of the anus (ie. the huiyin point) recommended while exhaling?

 

I tried it twice during Zhan Zhuang and got spontaneous movements (arms and spine).

 

"Way of Energy", "Way of Power" and "Zhan Zhuang and search of Wu" says "breathe normally".

 

It seems the contraction of huiyin generates more qi at the expense of a less relaxed practise?

[thelerner]

Have you ever swatted a fly? You are holding your object of choice, the fly buzzes to land on the table in front of you. You stay cool, but completely focused. You re-affirm your grip, and prepare your body to strike quick and relaxed. This moment, right before striking the fly. This is the way you want to be while standing. Make it real. Maybe even more intense, like waiting for the bus to get a 10 feet in front of you before diving out of the way. Your body, sure as shit, would be energized and ready to fly if a bus was headed at you.

 

When standing, you want your body to be completely prepared to move, and to move fast. This takes more energy, but gives you more energy.

 

"If you don't use it you lose it."

 

And remember, the best way to learn is to do the natural action. Go shoot disks. Take note of the state of your body and mind after you say the word," Pull!". Concentrated mind, awake nervous system, relaxed but prepared body. Maintain that while standing and you'll have more energy.

 

 

"Effortless" is a common misconception. At higher levels of zhan zhuang, the actual amount of physical "effort" or exertion should be GREATER. However, it should be natural to your body, and therefor more effortless to your mind.

 

This reminds me of Adyashanti's teachings which say we meditate wrong. We put ourselves into a relaxed trance state and miss the whole point of what meditation should be about. I've been working with this concept and at first it feels like a step back, but has made my sitting deeper.

 

I'll have to keep your advice in mind when I stand. Thank you.

 

Michael

[Old Man Contradiction]

This reminds me of Adyashanti's teachings which say we meditate wrong. We put ourselves into a relaxed trance state and miss the whole point of what meditation should be about. I've been working with this concept and at first it feels like a step back, but has made my sitting deeper.

 

I'll have to keep your advice in mind when I stand. Thank you.

 

Michael

 

I don't meditate per say, but I can relate to what you say Adyashanti mentions. I like Adyashanti, seems like a really good guy. Some real good ideas in his last book (haven't read any of his others). I believe that applies to the martial arts too. People reside in a relaxed state and forget what it should be about. Wang Xiangzhai is, to my mind, the most notable person that has made it clear that commonly the essence of the internal martial arts is lost. I also feel that his theories and methods require of the practitioner the truest sense of "spirit". I'd recommend seeking some of his translated books and interviews online for anyone that is interested.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Is contraction of the anus (ie. the huiyin point) recommended while exhaling?

 

I tried it twice during Zhan Zhuang and got spontaneous movements (arms and spine).

 

"Way of Energy", "Way of Power" and "Zhan Zhuang and search of Wu" says "breathe normally".

 

It seems the contraction of huiyin generates more qi at the expense of a less relaxed practise?

 

I hate to say this but I'm confident that what you are experiencing is something other than Qi. As far as I know, qi takes a massive amount of work and a massive amount of time to cultivate. Reversing the consequences of bad lifestyle habits is a physically painful process too, which also needs to be done before one can start thinking about qi. Doing zhan zhuang is a great start. That's why it is a major part of my training too.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[johndoe2012]

I don't meditate per say, but I can relate to what you say Adyashanti mentions. I like Adyashanti, seems like a really good guy. Some real good ideas in his last book (haven't read any of his others). I believe that applies to the martial arts too. People reside in a relaxed state and forget what it should be about. Wang Xiangzhai is, to my mind, the most notable person that has made it clear that commonly the essence of the internal martial arts is lost. I also feel that his theories and methods require of the practitioner the truest sense of "spirit". I'd recommend seeking some of his translated books and interviews online for anyone that is interested.

 

I enjoyed reading Wang's take on Taijiquan: http://taijijourney.blogspot.com/2005/07/interview-with-mr-wang-xiangzhai.html

 

I would say that I would prefer more emphasis on the foundation than the form in Taijiquan. That's why I'm doing Zhan Zhuang and looking at Yiquan as well. Whole-body movement is very important.

[Spectrum]

Yi Quan Lives On

[Old Man Contradiction]

I enjoyed reading Wang's take on Taijiquan: http://taijijourney.blogspot.com/2005/07/interview-with-mr-wang-xiangzhai.html

 

I would say that I would prefer more emphasis on the foundation than the form in Taijiquan. That's why I'm doing Zhan Zhuang and looking at Yiquan as well. Whole-body movement is very important.

 

That is a sound approach if you ask me. The cool thing about Yiquan is that it can be used in any style, or no style at all.

[Brian]

...

[Old Man Contradiction]

Anything in particular you (or others) would recommend? I have very recently developed quite an interest in zhanzhuang & yiquan and would like to explore a bit more...

 

 

 

Sifu Gregory Fong's articles are really good IMO. The "ZZ from an I-Chuan Perspective" is a perfect description of beginning to advance one's standing practice beyond simply standing in a relaxed posture. I've seen Fong in person and I'm seriously surprised he is not more well known online. I can't say enough good things about his martial art, based on my observation teachers of his caliber are rare.

 

Articles here

Edited July 12, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[adept]

J.P. Lau's Yiquan Research website is awesome. You can find it here

Xingyiquan's San Ti Shi here

Edited July 12, 2010 by adept

[Brian]

...

[bindo]

Chu nei kung is very specific; toes in, knees out, with most of the weight on the balls and outer ridges of the feet.

Blasto,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Master Chu suggests putting the weight on the heels and outer ridges of the feet.

[johndoe2012]

Shifting the discussion just a tad here.

 

I am curious what you all think about practicing the standing ZZ poses on your toes/balls of the feet. I tried this the other day and seemed to get 2 results:

 

1. I felt a stronger energy flow, espeically up my legs.

2. My calves were definitely tired after 20 minutes of standing on the toes.

 

Is standing on the ball of the foot possibly an advancement on the traditional poses? I am talking about for basic poses like Wu Chi, Holding the ball, standing in a stream,etc.

 

It is mentioned in Way of Energy that this is to train the calf muscles but in Way of Power it is stated that standing on the balls of the feet ("upper triangle") "unlocks the secrets of the explosive power in Da Cheng Quan" (yiquan).

 

This technique is also used in the level 1 Kunlun posture albeit sitting.

Edited July 15, 2010 by wtm

[Spectrum]

Yes. Heels and front of foot bubbling wells. Unspecific to kunlun. The practice I was introduced to along these lines of standing on the k1 points are to maintain posture and reach out in front of you at the same time and pull a tree closer to you(sensation of pulling), this is followed by grounding the heels and finding wuji. a simple way to find your 'center' when engaging in standing mediation in which you are engaging upward and downward flow.

 

Dragon and Tiger

 

Watch Bow Sim Mark open in this video and notice she opens and raises before sinking into wuji. Nice energetic forumlas all around.

 

You see this in Wudang forms as well.

 

Bow Sim Mark Leung Yee Chuan:

 

Edited July 16, 2010 by Spectrum

[Old Man Contradiction]

Every once in a while we'll stand on toes for twenty or so minutes, change between 8 or so arm postures. It's important to not neglect any part of your body. I think it's misleading for him to say that standing on the toes unlocks the secrets to I-Chuan's power, because standing on toes won't deliver those results. Zheng Li 'opposing force' is a major component to getting those results, and doing that type of work can work every muscle. A good measurement of how intensely you are applying opposing force in standing in Hun Yuan or Cheng Bao is if your hamstrings are burning.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[Spectrum]

Mid Summer Early Rise

These forms the formless manifests

sometimes after standing for while bringing the cog entirely above ground feels like flying

Going from slow to slower or quick to quickly now small to smaller or from time to an instant now

 

Wuji

Stillness

Mother of Eternal Movement