Ethics and Morality

[sean]

What if all the reference points for all our decisions, however mundane or important came from one place and one place only? And What if this place was your deepest, truest self, your Core, your Absolute?

YES YES! And take it all the way. This is the third stage. This is Brahman is the world. This is where you realize, even when you are not realizing, that you are already an expression of your True Will in every moment. There is no other choice but to be. Because "you" is relative and also a mental distinction. And part of this Great Perfection of True Will is for "you" to have confusion, is stages of moral development, is being uncertain about True Will, is having glimpses of True Will, is thinking intellectually we can ever be separate from True Will, is realizing that even though we already are True Will this doesn't abdicate the difficult, messy, painful process of being human in a crazy world ... and really trying to answer for ourselves what right and wrong and good and evil might be ... as a living Yoga of ethics. Emptiness is Form. True Will, Love, Truth, Freedom ... the Absolute is so so infinitely huge it actually holds these experiences of hate and confusion and relativity and and feelings of separateness and chaos and laughter and sex and death.

 

I used to have this unconscious fantasy, I think it's probably common among occultists, that goes something like: True Will is "out there" somewhere in a far away land with different rules ... somehow we need to align ourselves with it ... and when we hopefully do one day, we will "obtain" True Will for good. Then all of our need to think and work our way through complex decisions and terrible moral issues will vanish and all of our actions in each moment will automatically transcend conventional morality.

 

I don't buy into this anymore. True Will and little self are not separate. There is nothing you can do to separate yourself from True Will. Every single thought and decision you make is your True Will. And this is even the case when you think otherwise. And this truth doesn't make it pointless or meaningless to try to find your True Will. True Will is big enough to "contain" freedom to makes choices ... to hold (as itself) free will. Experiencing the truth that you are your True Will and could never be otherwise, could also be your True Will. And the results of this immersion into True Will could be part of a path to a higher expression of morality.

 

Personally I'm far from that point, of being able to lead my life from my Core outwards... I still have rules, fixations; I still make the effort, consider my movements before I make them etc... Some of the fixations and rules are very comforting... they support my 'identity' (small "i")... getting rid of them can be extremely painful and disorientating... it sometimes feels like you're shedding parts of you that are so You... often the shen/organ spirits feel as though you're killing a part of yourself, and so try and hang on to your fixations and illusions in any way possible... whether by defensiveness, anger, apathy, depression, or even happiness and bliss... I have all kinds of logical arguments and well-thought out points on why this process of deconstructing your illusions, your identity, your rules is a bad idea, and that it will keep me from what it is that I want... but this is exactly what a drug addict goes through... the only difference is that s/he's addicted to something they ingest consciously, where-as my illusions have been there from a young age and I'm addicted to the way they make me feel comfortable and certain about my self (small "s")...

It sounds like you are using doubt as a spiritual path much like Crowley prescribed. It's the path of "that is not true. that is not true. that is not true." I think it's a choice that has more to do with temperament than reality, but I guess at a certain point of immersion we have to, in your case perhaps ironically, have faith that our chosen paths will take us all the way. Osho talks about how Tantra is like saying yes to everything "and this is God. and this is God. and this is God." Different strokes I guess.

 

Ahh, I believe I've gotten myself gloriously confused now as well.

 

"I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning." --- Uncle Al

 

 

Sean

[cloud recluse]

...Have you ever found engaging in "unethical" action caused your life to be damaged spiritually or in other ways?

 

Is there room in spiritual practice for unethical or morally corrupt action or does this absolutely have to be cleared up first before a person can have an enlightenment experience or connection to the Tao etc

Having a healthier conception of ethics could have stopped me badly damaging the lives of others at various times,not just my own.Nondual experience in itself doesnt seem to require any ethical preperation,but its subsequent embodiment certainly does.So establishing that ethical conception first could be seen as a "leap of faith" in the nondual,introducing a degree of congruence before actual direct experience,as long as that approach also has the flexibility to move with direct insight when it occurs.Perhaps Im so emphatic about this because of my own regrettable actions.Apologies if Im starting to sound too preachy,but I think youve brought up a really crucial point Regards,Cloud.

[lezlie]

Way late in the game and probably a good thing for me.. I don't typically play well with others when everyone is suffering from a post retrograde hangover.

 

Although, I didn't read every single word in the thread, because of well... WORDS WORDS WORDS, I did pick on the general theme.

 

That being said I did want to comment on this quote (said early on by Freeform):

 

"Ok... One of my favourite of his practices was to not use the word "I" for long periods of time... He managed to do it for two years apparently... of course the classic Crowley twist was that if you did utter the forbiden word you'd have to immediately punish yourself - such as biting hard on your thumb. I tried this for a week - for the first few days I had my thumb in constant pain - but after a while you start to learn and the effect was fantastic... I had to become much more creative with my language and way of speaking, and I found myself losing my rigid identity and ego..."

 

Just yesterday I was talking to Sean about something along these lines. I was part of a meeting at my job last week where I noticed the "uppers" kept chiming in with "I think" to introduce their statements. It was really confusing to me at some point, because I couldn't get a real grasp on what needed to be changed with the tool we were discussing. My brain was like "ok, he thinks this, and he thinks this, and then the other one... he thinks this WTF?" It didn't really matter what any of them thought and it became overwhelmingly obvious that opinions from these individuals weren't going to fix any problems we were going over. The only thing these "I think" statements were presenting were cover-ups or "quick fix solutions" to a much much bigger problem. Granted, in certain situations what people THINK is vital and important to understand, say in a theraputic session with someone who is trying to peel away your layers, etc., but in a professional setting they really have no place. What the trial and error results are thinking, would be much more useful to consider... if they could think. So, my musing was how to get this "I think this" type of mindset out of my interactions, especially when it comes to subject matters where emotional involvement is not useful or needed. I wasn't aware that Crowley had practiced a ritual to relieve himself of this very thing. Very interesting! The ritual of biting the thumb wouldn't work for me (I would do better with a reward system instead of a punishment system), but gives me something to think about, or look more into, at the very least.

 

The magic books that I have been reading lately are Modern Magick, Modern Sex Magick (both written by Donald Michael Kraig), and then 777 and other Qabalistic Writing of Aleister Crowley, which includes Gematria and Sepher Sephiroth. The majority of the content in the 777 book is WAY over my head, but gives a better glimpse into Crowley's workings and teachings than reading about him in an article or hearing second hand from a friend. The book talks about why he choose 666 as his symbol, partly being because of what is talked about in part 1 (666 representing last of the mystic numbers of the sun, the spirit of Solomon, the Satanic trinity, and also the name of Jesus, then examples of the number in 4 parts of a divine name, an angelic name, a name pertaining to the fomative world, and then a name of a spirit or blind force) and partly to do with the apocalypse, him seeing the beast as a lion and leo being his rising sign. He writes much more on the number 418, if anyone is interested...

 

The other two books mentioned above (again written by Donald Michael Kraig) are an easy to read introduction into understanding magick and how to start practicing today. His thoughts and views take into consideration Crowley's teachings, but pulls references and resources from everywhere, since magic isn't something that came from one specific source. Kraig is also really into tantra, so that influences the Sex Magick book greatly.

 

Here is something that can be shared, but would be trite for me to try and sum up in my own words, so I'll just quote it:

 

(From Modern Sex Magick)

Because every action has a magical result, it is hard for a non-magician to deal with the seemingly unknowable reality of the universe. How many times have you heard someobody say something like "Just when everything seemed fine, it all fell apart?" If that person had been a magician, he or she would have been able to either prevent the disaster through magick, ease its effects, or at least see that it was coming. But that did not happen.

 

That is because non-magicians believe we are dependent on chance happenings: fate, luck, kimset. By not being able to tell what will happen as a result of their actions they are spun around helplessly by the results of those actions. Everything in life seems a mess, alternatively by doing little, a person can live a peaceful life. No actions, no magical reactions. But also no personal control or adventure.

 

... A magician will accept or deal with any problems he or she creates. It's called "Personal responsibility."

 

... To make a comparison a non-magician is like a person falling endlesly through the air. Spinning and flipping, he or she is out of control and at the mercy of gravity and winds. The position of his or her body is a result of being out of conrol. The magician, on the other hand, is like a person in a hang glider. He or she must also deal with gravity, winds, and the position of the body, but the magician uses magick (the wings of the hang glider) to control the fall, move up and down, move to the sides, and do whatever he or she desires.

 

Being a magician... does not make one superior to others in any way. A magician just has a differnt way of appreciating life and the universe and interacting with his or her environment.

 

This speaks to me in many ways. An individual really must read it with an open mind to fully appreciate the message. The message is there is a path of ritualistic work that involves an energetic expansion of the mind to embrace responsibility of your life totally and completely. This is not unlike the work that many life coaches will teach you. Magic (magick) is a simple fancy word that gets you interested in a system that brings more awareness to your being. It's a symbol, a tool, coming from a single place. You can use this tool to find the center where everything meets. You can use this tool to bring wealth and health into your life. You can use this tool to get off your fatass and start exercising. You can use this tool to try and make bad things happen.

 

You can do all of these things without magic, and your results could possibly be the same.

 

A passage that fits in with this thead of good / evil, in regards to magick:

 

(From Modern Sex Magick)

Theorem Seven - Magick is magick

Nobody talks about good electricity and bad electricity, yet people often talk about white and black magick. In Modern Magick I talked about white, black, and grey classifications of magick, but only for communication purposes. Even so, I still get letters from people attacking me for believing in different shades of magick.

 

I don't believe that way. Magick is magick. People can use magick for different purposes, some good and some bad. Likewise, you can use electicity to light up a dark room or to kill a person.

 

A trained magician has no desire to do magick that will in any way harm another because he or she knows that the result will bring harm back to the magician. To do so would simply be stupid. The question is, how does a magician avoid it?

 

If you are interested in the answer, then pick up the book

 

Magic is not something you do, it is something you are.

Edited April 11, 2006 by lezlie

[Cameron]

Lezlie, what would you say is the diffference between Magick and Alchemy? Or would you classify alchemy, changing or controlling states to another state, under the magick category?

[lezlie]

Cam, Sean is your man for that question, since he knows much about both.

 

I am tempted to say they are basically the same thing, or they access the same things, and whatever terms you choose to wrap the practices up in, depends on your character, coupled with the language and attitude you find in the literature and teachings. What appeals to you, that is... I am assuming you are referring to Taoist Alchemy, which is most likely borrowed and put in some type of rituals and practices in magick, or at least I would think.

 

It's weird, the first practice in Kraig's Modern Magick book that he has you do is called the relaxation ritual. You take golden light or a golden glow and imagine it at the base of your feet, then you pull it into your feet and up the legs, and up the entire body. Then he has you send the light to anywhere in your body you feel tension building.

 

The week before I began his book, my acupuncturist had me do THE EXACT SAME THING, except she had me use purple since it is my "color". I looked up more about this online and found the chakra cleansings with colors information. I am quite sure my acupuncturist is not teaching me to do ritual magick. She was having me focus on my chakras, my third one in particular.

 

After studying what I have so far about magick, it reveals itself more and more in every little thing, from Tony Robbins teachings to the plan I hear my friend lay out on how she's going to approach her boyfriend with a sensitive subject. It's everything we do.

[Cameron]

Not neccissarily Taoist alchemy .Though that has deifnetly been my main attraction as far as alchemy goes. The western traditions(or what's left of them) are interesting from the bit I have read.

 

Perhaps the tradition of magick comes from alchemy to begin with(East or West)?

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform

[Cameron]

I suppose I am not really attracted to magick in the sense you do it since I am more on the Taoist vibe. All my main teachers are really about allowing things to be as they are rather than manipulate.

 

I guess you could argue doing qigong is like manipulating your health and vitality in a way but I don't think that is the same thing as what Tao Te Ching talks about.

 

No judgment I know some quite entertaining people into magick and it certainly is interesting. I once asked Eric Yudelove why do you do magick? He said because it is my true nature to do so.

 

I guess we can leave it at that.

Edited April 12, 2006 by Cameron

[freeform]

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Edited December 18, 2019 by freeform