sleeping time /dream practise

[suninmyeyes]

Anyone out there does sleep time practise traditional/nontraditional,self-tailored?What is it?

I want to start awaking in the sleep more ,as i feel it has so much potential and is annoying me to waste too much time in slumber .

So if there is anything that works for you,something you found out and dont mind sharing?

What about sleeping qigong ,whats that about?Anyone practises it?

Thank you,

Sun

[Sloppy Zhang]

Don't know anything about sleeping qigong specifically but I've done a bit of lucid dreaming works. Takes a while to get consistent results from it, and once you're awake within the dream, it sometimes takes a while to get consistent in that too- sometimes the things you can do vary from dream to dream, as well as the places you'll be and the people you'll run into. More traditional methods might have a more structured way of doing things.

 

For me a large part of dream work involved what works for me personally. A lot of stuff people have out there just won't work for you, and some stuff will, and sometimes you need to tailor your method specifically to your own situation. And on top of that, what works is subject to change- a method might work for a couple of months, then suddenly not work anymore.

 

A good place to get started on lucid dreams specifically is ld4all.com

 

That said, a lot of my experiences done in lucid dreaming have mirrored things that Robert Bruce talks about in his book "Astral Dynamics", so you might wanna try checking that out, as he has some interesting theories on astral travel and how they relate to sleep.

Edited June 9, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Gjeken]

I've been practising from this book with good results so far after 2 weeks http://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Yogas-Dream-Sleep/dp/1559391014/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276119333&sr=1-1

 

Edit: you can read it for free at Google books

Edited June 9, 2010 by Gjeken

[suninmyeyes]

Sloppy ,i too feel a lot of stuff in the dreams is just dealing with subconciousness which is very individual.

I am also exploring idea -that if techniques could work in waking states there must be something used for sleeping state . Thanks for the book reccomendation ,ill definetley check it out.That is what im looking for some ideas and materials to explore and incorporate and try out.

 

 

Gjeken,i love free books .what a treat.Cheers!

[Ya Mu]

Anyone out there does sleep time practise traditional/nontraditional,self-tailored?What is it?

I want to start awaking in the sleep more ,as i feel it has so much potential and is annoying me to waste too much time in slumber .

So if there is anything that works for you,something you found out and dont mind sharing?

What about sleeping qigong ,whats that about?Anyone practises it?

Thank you,

Sun

Sleeping qigong and dreaming qigong are both within the system I practice and teach. First, one practices Stillness-Movement to raise the energy body vibration rate. Very difficult to jump through the non-sense astral level without first raising the energy body vibration.

[Sunya]

The purpose of dreaming is a mental cleansing isn't it? So wouldn't lucid dreaming run contrary to the purpose of dreaming? Bringing the conscious mind into that field will stop the automatic process that occurs every time you go to sleep. I can see dream practice as a very advanced practice for those who don't need this mental cleansing, but for most of us I'd guess we need stuff to get worked on and released automatically every night. Turning sleep time into a fantasy desire land (which is what many lucid dreamers do) doesn't seem very positive in my eyes. I could be wrong.

Edited June 10, 2010 by mikaelz

[Sloppy Zhang]

The purpose of dreaming is a mental cleansing isn't it? So wouldn't lucid dreaming run contrary to the purpose of dreaming? Bringing the conscious mind into that field will stop the automatic process that occurs every time you go to sleep. I can see dream practice as a very advanced practice for those who don't need this mental cleansing, but for most of us I'd guess we need stuff to get worked on and released automatically every night. Turning sleep time into a fantasy desire land (which is what many lucid dreamers do) doesn't seem very positive in my eyes. I could be wrong.

 

It depends on what you do. Also, there are different levels of lucidity. In some low level lucid dreams, you are merely aware of your actions, but have little ability to control yourself or change the outcome of events. In some, you have complete control. To a certain extent, it just comes with practice- first realizing you're lucid, not freaking out, knowing what you want to do before hand or reacting appropriately to the situation. However, I also think that your level of control depends on where you are or how far out you decide to go.

 

"Lucid dreaming", by definition, does not prescribe a set of actions- you can use it for spiritual cultivation or as a fantasy land amusement park. In my opinion though, the fantasy land tour is rather shallow.... literally, I mean it is a relatively easy thing to do in lucid dreams, it does not involve accessing parts of your consciousness that you don't normally have access to. It's pretty much a daydream on steroids. Depending on how many senses you have in a lucid dream, it could be as tangible as full blown waking reality, or it could be only slightly more vivid than a daydream. But in either sense, in my humble opinion, there's no real "work" necessary.

 

I've tried a few more.... intense things in lucid dreams- exploring states of consciousness, trying to access parts of my mind that normally aren't readily available, testing ways to enhance memory or learning, among other things. I've been in situations when even though I was fully lucid I had absolutely NO control over the surroundings or the people/things I was interacting with. I could only control myself and my responses. Maybe they were strong aspects of myself, maybe they were foreign entities- as of now, I have no confirmed answers. However, at the moment it is my belief that these are deeper/higher levels of lucid dreams that go beyond just the "daydream fantasy". To really master these areas like you would the more shallow areas requires real work. It's far from a fantasy land. Though thankfully I've never gotten to a point where I couldn't wake up. When things get too hot, it's nice to have an out!

 

I don't know how long this post will run, because I have a lot of thoughts based on experience, as well as stuff I've read from other systems, but here we go:

 

B.K. Frantzis talks about the different bodies we posses- physical, qi, emotional, mental, psychic, causal, etc. Each of these are subtler. We have all of them at all times, we just don't necessarily feel them and they aren't always energized optimally- all kinds of energetic and psychological residue has built up which prevents clear communication and control of the bodies. I think that part of what dreams do is they throw up whatever is there. For the average person, it's stuff that's swishing around in their head from stuff that happens in the day, from stuff they are stuck on in the past, worries they have about the future, etc etc. Many dreams involve this "sorting" process.

 

But let's say that through, say, meditation, you are able to clear some of this process. If you were to go into a deep meditative state, or go to sleep, and maintain awareness, then not only would you encounter this stuff, but you would CONSCIOUSLY encounter this stuff. And if you had already cleared away stuff from one layer, you could see through to the next layer.

 

But it doesn't always happen in that order, and it doesn't always happen consistently (at least not without training). Assuming this model is correct, we are receiving psychic info all the time- we just don't always realize it. Now let's say a strong bit of psychic info comes along- we might be able to pick it up. If you practice meditation or some kind of dreaming techniques, then you could get access to this stuff more easily.

 

If you're untrained though, then it's an on again off again thing. On some days you can do it, and on some days you can't. Maybe you have a good day where you feel very positive and confident and are very "clear" in terms of your mind or emotions- might lead to clear perceptions of something deep. But if you had a rough day or something is troubling you, it might prevent you from seeing something that's more than just your own thoughts.

 

And that's why it's good to practice a holistic system, like Ya Mu's, for example, that incorporates training so that you reach a point where it's NOT just an "on again off again" type of thing. Where you have a framework for dealing with problems not only in dream states, but in waking realms as well. So when you're in a dream state, or a deep meditative state, you don't have to file through all the paper work before you get to go out and do new stuff.

 

Like I said, most of this is from my own experience and thinking on it. It's how I see the situation at my point currently. I might be wrong, I might change my view of this further down the road, but for me it accounts for (almost) everything I've come across (and I'm working with that "almost" right now )

Edited June 10, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[suninmyeyes]

Sleeping qigong and dreaming qigong are both within the system I practice and teach. First, one practices Stillness-Movement to raise the energy body vibration rate. Very difficult to jump through the non-sense astral level without first raising the energy body vibration.

Hello Ya Mu,

Is there any reading material you would reccomend about sleeping qigong practise?Like an good introductory book or similar?

Is it a sort of a follow up practise that is being thought only after certain energetic change in mind-body occurs?

Cheers

[suninmyeyes]

The purpose of dreaming is a mental cleansing isn't it? So wouldn't lucid dreaming run contrary to the purpose of dreaming? Bringing the conscious mind into that field will stop the automatic process that occurs every time you go to sleep. I can see dream practice as a very advanced practice for those who don't need this mental cleansing, but for most of us I'd guess we need stuff to get worked on and released automatically every night. Turning sleep time into a fantasy desire land (which is what many lucid dreamers do) doesn't seem very positive in my eyes. I could be wrong.

Hello Mikaelz,

It is possible to wake up in a dream totally lucid ,and this does not refer to astral travel,but waking up in own reality where one exists as a sort of vacuum reality from where sounds and light is coming and making us up as we are,shaping us.

So i suppose im interested to learn to traverse mindscape more regulary,efficiantley.Its like mind tricking its self out of its self.

I feel lucid dreaming has potential to be a good mental excersise ,but maybe i could be wrong too.

[~jK~]

Hello Mikaelz,

It is possible to wake up in a dream totally lucid ,and this does not refer to astral travel,but waking up in own reality where one exists as a sort of vacuum reality from where sounds and light is coming and making us up as we are,shaping us.

So i suppose im interested to learn to traverse mindscape more regulary,efficiantley.Its like mind tricking its self out of its self.

I feel lucid dreaming has potential to be a good mental excersise ,but maybe i could be wrong too.

 

I've posted it about 15 times - search for 'Savasana' or go buy a book on it.

[Spectrum]

Consider the transitions to and from sleep as opportunities....

[Ya Mu]

Hello Ya Mu,

Is there any reading material you would reccomend about sleeping qigong practise?Like an good introductory book or similar?

Is it a sort of a follow up practise that is being thought only after certain energetic change in mind-body occurs?

Cheers

 

No reading material. The system I teach and practice is the basis for the dream practice. The Gift of the Tao movements I have on DVD are results of dreaming qigong practice. And I am releasing Gift of the Tao 2 this summer. You can read about some of the dream practice experiences in my book but the book doesn't tell you how to - it would be impossible.

[Spectrum]

The most powerful dreams I've experienced were betweeen dream and the curls of reality, it is the daily window we open and close. In the most powerful examples of meditations effects on daily transitions of consiousness in my own journey it seems the opportunity for oobe's and lucid dream work is not so much to control te content of dreams ( self centered use of lucidity) but to aid in non attached observation and navigation of the dreamscape mind into deeper or surface levels of consciousness. Vibratoru state exists just as deep dreamless sleep exists. It is very very very interestig to meditate next to someone in rem... I actually enjoy meditating next to a dreaming dog. Sirius!

[rain]

No reading material. The system I teach and practice is the basis for the dream practice. The Gift of the Tao movements I have on DVD are results of dreaming qigong practice. And I am releasing Gift of the Tao 2 this summer. You can read about some of the dream practice experiences in my book but the book doesn't tell you how to - it would be impossible.

 

Certainly not so from my point of experience.

I was told to look & consentrate on my handsbefore I fell asleep and make a mental note/descision/intent to recontact my hands when dreaming.

I woke up in my dream as I was washing my hands. And could recollect the dream afterwards remembering the astonishment of keeping and succeeding with my intent of lucid dreaming. My hands were the first thing I looked at when I woke up the next morning and they were glowing with a fine red hue.

Later I was told that C. Castaneda knew of this way.

shrug but I aint selling nothing

 

Ah, One last thing.

You make the intent then place it in your heart

Edited June 15, 2010 by rain

[Ya Mu]

Certainly not so from my point of experience.

I was told to look & consentrate on my handsbefore I fell asleep and make a mental note/descision/intent to recontact my hands when dreaming.

I woke up in my dream as I was washing my hands. And could recollect the dream afterwards remembering the astonishment of keeping and succeeding with my intent of lucid dreaming. My hands were the first thing I looked at when I woke up the next morning and they were glowing with a fine red hue.

Later I was told that C. Castaneda knew of this way.

shrug but I aint selling nothing

 

Ah, One last thing.

You make the intent then place it in your heart

Yes, whoever told you this got it from Castenada. The power of suggestion. Hands actually didn't have much to do with it as it could have been anything and would have worked.

I will point you back to the post above by "Spectrum".

 

... In the most powerful examples of meditations effects on daily transitions of consiousness in my own journey it seems the opportunity for oobe's and lucid dream work is not so much to control te content of dreams ( self centered use of lucidity) but to aid in non attached observation and navigation of the dreamscape mind into deeper or surface levels of consciousness. Vibratory state exists just as deep dreamless sleep exists. ...

 

There are many approaches to this but I think the above post by Spectrum says much.

If one raises the energy body vibration then a lot of this will happen on it's own.

But there are specific techniques within specific systems that act to enhance, safeguard, and deepen the process.

 

edit: Rain, I think you misinterpreted my use of the word "impossible" in my above post you referenced. I mean it as it is impossible for me to write of the technique within my system to teach someone. Sorry, it was not clear.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Ya Mu]

Hi Michael, at what point do you teach dreaming chi gung to dedicated stillness-movement practitioners?

I've already started. Depends if folks continue with the practice.

[rain]

Yes, whoever told you this got it from Castenada. The power of suggestion. Hands actually didn't have much to do with it as it could have been anything and would have worked.

I will point you back to the post above by "Spectrum".

 

 

 

There are many approaches to this but I think the above post by Spectrum says much.

If one raises the energy body vibration then a lot of this will happen on it's own.

But there are specific techniques within specific systems that act to enhance, safeguard, and deepen the process.

 

edit: Rain, I think you misinterpreted my use of the word "impossible" in my above post you referenced. I mean it as it is impossible for me to write of the technique within my system to teach someone. Sorry, it was not clear.

 

 

Very good YaMu I know you were speaking of your practise when you referred to the impossible

 

therefore I felt compelled to share the possible practise

my way :0)

and with all respect

the hands and heart are important:)

but its impossible to describe why in my practise ;0)

 

and yes

 

dogs are

Edited June 15, 2010 by rain

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yes, I've heard of looking at hands both as a way of "reality checking" in wake time and dream time, as well as enhancing lucidity and stability of the dream once you've become lucid.

 

I've also heard rubbing your dream hands together, or spinning your dream body helps to stay lucid if you feel like you are using it.

 

Looking at my hands has led to some of my most tactile and realistic dreams I've ever had, so there may be something to it

[Ya Mu]

..

the hands and heart are important:)

...

 

So feet or toes would not work?

 

I am not sure Castaneda didn't make that up about the hands but millions seem to use it after he wrote about it.

I don't. Could, but don't see the need.

 

I still maintain that raising the energy body vibration is the single most critical aspect of this (and probably coincides with your "heart").

I think what happens without this higher vibration is that most people find themselves in lower astral levels. Can be entertaining but full of disembodied liars. Only when a person has actually raised their energy body vibration can they easily jump past this non-sense.

[thelerner]

Dream work is fascinating, I try to tackle it seriously every few years, but it ends up exacerbating my insomnia. There is an interesting schism in dream study. There is a Western Technique oriented approach which looks at it as a skill and more traditional approach that sees it as the result of deep cultivation and mature practice.

 

Rawn Clark's written about meetings with other high level people on the astral plane, later they'd call each other to confirm what was discussed and how it was interpreted. Rawn is a pretty mellow guy, but he seemed angry when people compared Bruce Roberts dream work with his. He considered Roberts work to be shallow (I don't agree).

 

Undoubtedly he'd consider Stephen LaBerge's material even more so, since LaBerge is all about practicality. Like Ya Mu and others, he sees a sacredness in dream work that shouldn't be done lightly.

 

Here's what I think works best in the Western quickie model; meditate before sleep 30 to 60 minutes. Clarify the intent to be awake in the dream. Then set an alarm or telling yourself strictly to wake up 90 minutes early. When you wake up, go to the washroom, walk around a little, then set a strong intent to be aware within your dream. With fresh intent in mind go to sleep, preferably in another room. The dreams done in the last REM cycle are easier to recall.

 

 

 

Michael

[Sloppy Zhang]

Dream work is fascinating, I try to tackle it seriously every few years, but it ends up exacerbating my insomnia. There is an interesting schism in dream study. There is a Western Technique oriented approach which looks at it as a skill and more traditional approach that sees it as the result of deep cultivation and mature practice.

 

Rawn Clark's written about meetings with other high level people on the astral plane, later they'd call each other to confirm what was discussed and how it was interpreted. Rawn is a pretty mellow guy, but he seemed angry when people compared Bruce Roberts dream work with his. He considered Roberts work to be shallow (I don't agree).

 

Undoubtedly he'd consider Stephen LaBerge's material even more so, since LaBerge is all about practicality. Like Ya Mu and others, he sees a sacredness in dream work that shouldn't be done lightly.

 

Here's what I think works best in the Western quickie model; meditate before sleep 30 to 60 minutes. Clarify the intent to be awake in the dream. Then set an alarm or telling yourself strictly to wake up 90 minutes early. When you wake up, go to the washroom, walk around a little, then set a strong intent to be aware within your dream. With fresh intent in mind go to sleep, preferably in another room. The dreams done in the last REM cycle are easier to recall.

 

 

 

Michael

 

I was recently told that Robert Bruce had some good work out there, and when I read through "Astral Dynamics" I started to see a lot of things that had come up with me in my own dream work that I couldn't explain- so I have some respect for it because, well, I've validated it with my own practice beforehand, then again, everyone is different.

 

Rawn Clark has great work, it's too bad he doesn't like Robert Bruce's stuff

 

As far as methods, I really don't like the "set alarm, wake up, go back to sleep" method. Maybe it's cause I'm lazy and I don't want to get up before I have to I've never actually tried the method though, maybe it has fast results. For me the stuff that works is examining your dreams and trying to find recurring themes and elements, really focus on recognizing them, as well as increasing your awareness of various situations in real life, and fairly quickly you'll see some element in your dream and you'll realize it's a dream.

 

Recently though for me, I've become lucid without any dream signs. I'll just suddenly go "whoa, dream." It might have to do with general awareness that I cultivate through meditation, or it might be because of energy work. However, I DO suggest that training to get a continuous, fully engaged awareness at all moments will get you into lucid dreams fast (though admittedly it's hard to do with the monotony of life).

 

For me recently I've started to have a lucid dream in my first set of dreams, then in later REM stages gone into "regular" dreams, though there is some back and forth when it comes to when during sleep I have them.

 

It just comes down to practice, and attitude. Try to have fun

[Spectrum]

I've experienced the windows of lucidity as waypoints or bookmarks into Observation which seamed to bring the Vibration state available. Although there have been dreams in which detailed lucitidi has occurred the most impressive or imprinting on memory experience have been the instances in which lucidity pulled the conscious OUT of the REM state and into Vibration state. In this state it is possible to raise and lower your vibrational level, the three biggest setbacks, sleep paralysis (give up need to control) fear of falling, self awareness inducing wakeup.

[Ya Mu]

M, can you give us some examples of dream state experiences in the higher levels?

To me, dreaming qigong practice is not the same thing as lucid dreaming. What I am referring to is awakening to the Higher Level Self (the real, whole you) in dreamtime. This can be at night or during waking hours.

The light Warrior's Guide book contains many of these experiences. The Gift of the Tao vibratory movements are a direct result (observed) of this experience. And soon to be released Gift of the Tao 2. So an example is the movements themselves - vibratory states brought back from other worlds.

[Kameel]

Rainbow Vein- I know Ya Mu says it is not in the book...but it's in the book. Sometimes in the words, but mostly in the spaces. Read again in a meditative state and ask your Higher Self for instruction.

 

PS. I am playing with M's words slightly as he is correct; it is impossible to describe in the book,...but not impossible to experience. Keep going, and blessings on your path.

[Ya Mu]

Rainbow Vein- I know Ya Mu says it is not in the book...but it's in the book. Sometimes in the words, but mostly in the spaces. Read again in a meditative state and ask your Higher Self for instruction.

 

PS. I am playing with M's words slightly as he is correct; it is impossible to describe in the book,...but not impossible to experience. Keep going, and blessings on your path.

HA! Glad to see you picked up on the fact that the book is almost two totally different reads depending on the qi state of the reader. This is because I only wrote when in deep Stillness-Movement qi-state.