Keep memories after death?

[NeiChuan]

Opinions? Possible?

[Sloppy Zhang]

I would say so.

 

Some people claim they have past life memories.

 

I've heard advanced practitioners of Bardon's system tell that there is a spirit which helps you reclaim all of your past life memories.

[fizix]

I would say so.

 

Some people claim they have past life memories.

 

I've heard advanced practitioners of Bardon's system tell that there is a spirit which helps you reclaim all of your past life memories.

Yes, possible for memory to linger after death...but not for long.

[Gerard]

Opinions? Possible?

 

Yes.

 

You can dig them out in meditation, sleep, deep trance or by hypnosis.

 

Besides your current facial features are a remain of your last life.

 

I see this on people quite often.

 

 

For example:

 

 

Frederic Chopin (1810-1849), Polish composer.

 

 

 

Krystian Zimerman (1956- ), Polish classical pianist. Who interestingly launched his career when he won the 1975 Warsaw International Frederick Chopin Piano Competition. Not just a coincidence.

Edited June 11, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Taiji Bum]

From what I understand, the first level of Taoist spiritual immortality is when you are forever reborn with your past life memories intact or fully recovered before your 18 years old. That includes all past languages and knowledge, not just vague impressions or images. Its total recall.

[Gerard]

From what I understand, the first level of Taoist spiritual immortality is when you are forever reborn with your past life memories intact or fully recovered before your 18 years old. That includes all past languages and knowledge, not just vague impressions or images. Its total recall.

 

 

It sounds too dogmatic. Btw, you are already an immortal.

[Sloppy Zhang]

It sounds too dogmatic. Btw, you are already an immortal.

 

It doesn't sound dogmatic to me, just common sense-ical.

 

I mean, if you cultivate a high level of spirituality in one life, die, then reincarnate, why should you have to restart from scratch with vague impressions?

 

If you get to the level where you are borderline immortal (whatever you take it to mean, but I consider it to be not the immortal in the sense that, "we're all already immortal anyway") then small time stuff like past life memories should be like, no big deal.

 

It's like, you took a break when you died, and now you're back to spiritual practice.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

There is some emerging research/evidence that short-term memories exist in the body's Connective Tissue System (CTS) and are only 'processed' into thinking/analysis by the brain/mind.. all memories appear to be permanantly existent in the "Zero Point Field" as 'vibrational consistencies', that is ALL memories of ALL that has ever occurred.. for us, as individual unique Energetic Signatures, the 'recall' is a matter of resonance or coherence with the 'vibrational consistencies' those generated by 'our' experiences are the most readily available, and proximate by attraction to their source.. Interestingly, those people that claim 'past lives' or 'channeling', may very well be accessing those 'other' memories by their own expanded resonance or coherence.. and, further enhancing or embellishing those memories of others according to their own preferences or beliefs..

 

It is the 'stilled mind' that creates the least 'energetic resistence' in the accessing of memories, the coherence and resonance encounter no 'interference' by thought patterns.. in this condition the memories emerge as 'Whole-Being' recollections in the CTS, a nearly instantaneous 'Body-Mind' "Knowing", sometimes described as our 'Nature'..

 

Anyway, some interesting contributions from our friends dabbling in the 'Sciences'..

 

Be well..

[reddragon]

yeah, any being that maintains consciousness within or through a void space

retains form as body at what ever level that being is capable of. There are

hundreds of levels to view from in this world. Memories do continue forever

but total recall is unnecessary in any single worldly existence. It's a matter

of functionality and necessity what and when memories are recalled. In the end

Being Abilities cannot be seen as gained from life time experiences. Ability

is from essence and essence preseeds all experience.This world is for acquisition

of a permanent magnetic form. A conscious core that does traverse the voids.

Edited June 11, 2010 by reddragon

[RongzomFan]

After death you fall into a confused dream, where you do not even know that you are dead.

 

Actually you might be dead right now.

[Sloppy Zhang]

After death you fall into a confused dream, where you do not even know that you are dead.

 

Actually you might be dead right now.

 

Sort of like the ending to *spoiler alert*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lost.

[Gerard]

It doesn't sound dogmatic to me, just common sense-ical.

 

I mean, if you cultivate a high level of spirituality in one life, die, then reincarnate, why should you have to restart from scratch with vague impressions?...

 

Sooner or later someone was going to say something along those lines. You missed here one thing: impermanence. Your immortal Taoist spirit is also subjected to that unless they are able to escape rebirth.

[NeiChuan]

Yes.

 

You can dig them out in meditation, sleep, deep trance or by hypnosis.

 

Besides your current facial features are a remain of your last life.

 

I see this on people quite often.

 

 

For example:

 

 

Frederic Chopin (1810-1849), Polish composer.

 

 

 

Krystian Zimerman (1956- ), Polish classical pianist. Who interestingly launched his career when he won the 1975 Warsaw International Frederick Chopin Piano Competition. Not just a coincidence.

 

All good feedback, thanks everyone.

 

Durkhrod, yeah I've had the similar outlook in the subject. pretty cool =D

[Thunder_Gooch]

I believe it is possible, or at least I hope it is. Schools like John Chang's supposedly reach levels where spiritual immortality is possible.

[NeiChuan]

I believe it is possible, or at least I hope it is. Schools like John Chang's supposedly reach levels where spiritual immortality is possible.

 

Well the beginning levels are basically chi kung. But we could talk about john changs system all day, so lets not make this post like 1,000 others lol.

 

I don't doubt its possible in other systems either though.

[thelerner]

I wish I remember the title of the book I read at the library a year ago. A U.S. University's pych. department got an endowment to study children who remembered past lives. It was interesting because the writers and the school were very impartial to the idea, but they found amazing cases in the U.S. not just of Children who remembered past lives, but evidence that body features and strangely in some cases death wounds were evident on childrens bodies. Kids in general began to forget as they reached age 5 or 6.

 

Fascinating book because they weren't selling the latest fad. It was straight forward reporting of what they saw. Ofcourse when they visited India the phenomena was so wide spread as to considered a norm instead of weird unsubstantiated new age belief.

 

The book was a real eye opener for me. Few after life theories have the evidence behind them that reincarnation does. Still, in many taoists believes we're not reincarnations of past lives as much as sharing a soul shard w/ them.

 

 

Michael

[Thunder_Gooch]

I wish I remember the title of the book I read at the library a year ago. A U.S. University's pych. department got an endowment to study children who remembered past lives. It was interesting because the writers and the school were very impartial to the idea, but they found amazing cases in the U.S. not just of Children who remembered past lives, but evidence that body features and strangely in some cases death wounds were evident on childrens bodies. Kids in general began to forget as they reached age 5 or 6.

 

Fascinating book because they weren't selling the latest fad. It was straight forward reporting of what they saw. Ofcourse when they visited India the phenomena was so wide spread as to considered a norm instead of weird unsubstantiated new age belief.

 

The book was a real eye opener for me. Few after life theories have the evidence behind them that reincarnation does. Still, in many taoists believes we're not reincarnations of past lives as much as sharing a soul shard w/ them.

 

 

Michael

 

That explains it, my grandmother tells me that when I first learned to speak I told her I came from a world with two suns. XD

[suninmyeyes]

Opinions? Possible?

I hope not .I just so want to be dead when im dead.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I hope not .I just so want to be dead when im dead.

 

I hope it works like that too, but I'm not banking on it. We came out of nothingness (death) and then were born into this world and life at least once that we know of, I'd be willing to bet it will happen again in some similar way.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I might be missing something here, but since when did Daoism postulate reincarnation, as some of you have suggested?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but it seems contrary to Daoism.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I might be missing something here, but since when did Daoism postulate reincarnation, as some of you have suggested?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but it seems contrary to Daoism.

 

Chunyi Lin of SFQ, John Chang, and Wang Liping all seem to acknowledge rebirth.

 

I don't know anything for certain. I don't know if rebirth occurs or death is a finality, or something else altogether. I do know that reality supersedes any ism, daoism included. So whatever happens after death, does so irregardless of whatever ism we cling to.

Edited June 11, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[suninmyeyes]

I hope it works like that too, but I'm not banking on it. We came out of nothingness (death) and then were born into this world and life at least once that we know of, I'd be willing to bet it will happen again in some similar way.

 

Well ,one way or another when my good luck fairy(that fullfils 3 wishes )comes around ,i will ask her for it.Its on top of my list.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I wish I remember the title of the book I read at the library a year ago. A U.S. University's pych. department got an endowment to study children who remembered past lives. It was interesting because the writers and the school were very impartial to the idea, but they found amazing cases in the U.S. not just of Children who remembered past lives, but evidence that body features and strangely in some cases death wounds were evident on childrens bodies. Kids in general began to forget as they reached age 5 or 6.

 

Fascinating book because they weren't selling the latest fad. It was straight forward reporting of what they saw. Ofcourse when they visited India the phenomena was so wide spread as to considered a norm instead of weird unsubstantiated new age belief.

 

The book was a real eye opener for me. Few after life theories have the evidence behind them that reincarnation does. Still, in many taoists believes we're not reincarnations of past lives as much as sharing a soul shard w/ them.

 

 

Michael

 

 

That explains it, my grandmother tells me that when I first learned to speak I told her I came from a world with two suns. XD

 

I have a friend of mine who says that her parents tell her that when she was a kid, she was adamant about the fact that she had just been a doctor (in Geneva, I think it was?) and her parents were like, "nooooooo, you're too young for that." And she was like, "noooooooo you're wrong."

 

I might be missing something here, but since when did Daoism postulate reincarnation, as some of you have suggested?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, but it seems contrary to Daoism.

 

We had a thread about that here: here

 

I took this excerpt from B.K. Frantzis' book "The Great Stillness" on the subject:

 

In their philosophy, the Taoists prefer to focus on life here and now. Neither in the I Ching, the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tse, nor in Chuang Tsu's works is there a strong focus on reincarnation. The Taoist view is that the energy of life is at death mulched in the energy of the Tao and spun out again as another new living manifestation. Chuang Tsu, for example, says: "How marvelous the Creator (the Tao) is! What is he going to make of you next? Where is he going to send you? Will he make you into a rat's liver? Will he make you into a bug's arm?" (Chuang Tsu, Basic Writings, trans. Burton Watson (New York: Columbia University Press, 1964), p 81)

 

Many Taoists believe that the vast majority of human beings do not have the capacity to reincarnate intact. They believe that when a soul dies, its consciousness breaks up and later combines with parts of other fragmented souls, thereby reincarnating as a mosaic soul. This idea is also represented in other traditions, especially shamanic ones, where it is held that a human's body can be composed from different past lives of various entities. Thus, some Taoists believe that the human desire to become integrated is based on a literal need.

 

The primary spiritual purpose of the preparatory and intermediate chi practices of Taoist meditation for achieving spiritual maturity involves gathering all the energies of an individual into one integrated, whole energy or consciousness. This unified energy/consciousness creates a "ling", the Chinese word for "soul". A unified ling can reincarnate intact; a fragmented or nonintegrated human consciousness cannot.

 

Since many Taoists believe that most people will not come back as a unified being, they consider talking about reincarnation to be a waste of time. They do, though, discuss karma, which they often characterize as the Law of Return. In this concept, the energy you put out eventually comes back to you in some form, though it is not certain when or how that will happen. Responsibility for the deeds you do and the psychic energy you put out is critical to the Taoist philosophy of how life and justice works.

 

The life-affirming Taoists seek a primal route to experiencing nature of the nontemporal "soul" by training the body to be fully conscious and aware. By placing attention on the living human body and on Consciousness (which they deem to be immortal) (my note-this isn't your "mental consciousness", but the part of "universal consciousness" that you are connected to at all times, and which you cultivate an awareness of during meditation), Taoists hold that focusing on this present life is as equally important as giving credence to the concept of an afterlife.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Seth Ananda]

I hate to drag 'anecdotal experience' into a subject like this But havent many of you had experience with the dead? They seem to retain a great deal of their Memory, some for a long time... Or were all the Shamanic cultures and every Culture that practiced ancestor worship just Deluded Natives?

I 'Know' that my Dad and my Nanna still drop in sometimes, But I haven't seen Gramps in a while.

 

What about the spate of near Death research?

 

Someone else may be able to tell me as I can't remember right now, but one of the popular NDE books is by a doctor.

This man was given the Job of compiling a Data collection system for some rare disease so people in any country with any language could put in Details about symptoms, experiences, anything that might help find out more Info on the subject. Also any discharged patients who had submitted Info would be sent out 6? monthly review's so they could add any other details. (for the next few years)

after he finished he thought the program would also be good to collect Data on NDE's. So he sent it out to hundreds of Hospitals and years Later he had thousands of patients NDE's, from all different traditions, country's, belief's and age category's, some as young as 6.

He was shocked to discover such a similar range of experience, in round 98% of cases following, exact details...

Tunnel of Light,

Dead Family members and/or Spiritual guides or teachers,

( there were a number of people who had family waiting who they had never met or seen, then like a year later they Inherit a photo from some weird uncle or some how end up with a rare pic of that relative and lo and behold is the exact person they met.)

Life review of things learned and obstacles that needed more work...

360 degree vision and an ability to just comprehend with ones Being...

 

After this was over, patients often reported back a Major positive change in the Psyche, and complete redefining of Lifes value systems, towards Love and relating and service.

 

One of the cool things about this researcher is that he was an Athiest, but began to think that Life after Death should be considered a scientific Fact.

His key points (that I remember) were,

 

-Its Testable - Over and over again people will have and experience the same things when having this experience.

 

-Patients consistently have vivid accurate perceptions of events in surgery room, (pre tunnel of light) even while being clinically brain dead for several minuits - In some cases the patients Brain has been hooked up to very sophisticated equipment and it has said -Brain Dead! Zero activity! Dead you hear me! so any form of perception should be Impossible.

 

-Its different to dreams and Hallucinations, which it often gets dumped in with. In dreams and hallucinations one may see any number of beings some of which will be living people that you know, and much content may be Nonsensical. This never Happens in NDE's. No one ever meets beings that are not already dead. And its not a weird land of psychological strangeness (after tunnel of light stage), Its A Highly coherent space of consciousness and Deep understanding...

 

That's all I remember for Now, But it seems to me that this may be the first time In History that Humanity has been able to really study NDE out side of cultural and religious Dogma. This seems very Important to me. It could be what helps us to get a clear understanding Of what Spiritual reality is actually like.

 

Remember- religions want to control the way you see Life after Death. If the church has you thinking An angry god or hell is waiting if you dare to challenge its authority, its likely you will be a 'Good' boy or girl and will Support the church for guaranteeing you a pass through the pearly Gates.

 

And if the Monastery has you thinking that if you do not meditate half your life, you are going straight to confusion, lost in the bardo's, then just getting recycled like some old garbage, Then you will probably also Tow the Line and support the Lamas.

 

All the post tunnel of light experiences (recorded by this Doctor's program) experience A Deeply Compassionate, Fully Loving benevolent presence, That Loves and cherishes them, Understands the Basis of every decision they ever made and does not judge them for it, and often sends them back with a Total Knowing of their purpose for being here, which allows them to live with a renewed sense of meaning and fulfilment. (which the Lamas try to strip from us by saying we do not have a Self)

 

On a Side note, I think it may be possible for a rigid belief system not based on universal experience, Like the Bardo's, to be used and experienced by profound meditators as a tool to try and achieve whatever it is they are trying to achieve. I think it is probably always possible for ones consciousness to exert it's structures over reality, and a life time of Imagining it in a certain way, and doing countless practices, and spending a lot of your time with others who do and support the same view. That must have a powerful magic to it.

Its probably a great way to make sure you reincarnate just down the street if you want to be a monk again.

 

[C T]

Hey Seth - I believe the researcher you are referring to is Dr Ian Stevenson.

 

Btw, the Bardos are not the monopoly of lamas, and its understanding is actually more relevant to living than dying. For those who wish to grasp the fundamental significance of the Bardo, simply pay attention to the breath... notice the intermediate point, that gap between the in-breath and the out-breath? That is a bardo. In plain language, 'Bardo' means 'transition', the cognizant yet empty phase when one moment ends and before the next moment arises. It is this, and only this phase where the potential for transformation is at its peak. Why else would cultivators and seekers from across all traditions and cultures place such astoundingly heavy emphasis on 'stillness'? What is this 'stillness'? In which bodily function can one begin to familiarise oneself with this 'stillness', if not the breath?

 

When i first learnt about the bardos and how it relates to the breath, it dawned on me then that the intervals between inhalations(yang) and exhalations(yin) are nothing but 'little opportunities' to experience the Absolute. As time passed, these intervals have stretched a bit, so its quite nice like this...

Edited June 12, 2010 by CowTao