Evil Warlord/Neigung

[enouch]

How [haven't read all the book] was the evil warlord in isolation able to accelerate his training to level 52? Did he have a copy of the text? I'm referring to the Magus of Java

[Thunder_Gooch]

do you have page numbers? I'll go back and re-read and do some research online.

[enouch]

[Thunder_Gooch]

page 69 it was a different school than mo pai in which he studied. It never elaborates on which school it was. I wonder how many schools with 72 or higher level systems there are.

[enouch]

page 69 it was a different school than mo pai in which he studied. It never elaborates on which school it was. I wonder how many schools with 72 or higher level systems there are.

 

 

 

 

Acoording to Denty and others the 72 levels of power refer to the 72 energy centers in the body. This, you can find in many Indian systems...which may clarify how Damo,who was never a member of mo pai opened or reached level 72.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Acoording to Denty and others the 72 levels of power refer to the 72 energy centers in the body. This, you can find in many Indian systems...which may clarify how Damo,who was never a member of mo pai opened or reached level 72.

 

can you dig up any charts of a 72 chakra system? Any more info on the practices damo taught or anything else related?

[enouch]

can you dig up any charts of a 72 chakra system? Any more info on the practices damo taught or anything else related?

 

 

 

I'll try[it's pretty common knowledge] and as far as Damo,he taught the muscle tendon classic,brain/bone marrow cleansing and one other. He was a Indian [some say Buddha] responsible for Chan school of Buddhism. Just as a hint, Liang,Yan Xin, and Robert Peng have all been trained in shaolin systems. Damo is considered the patriarch of Shaolin. I know you doubt Peng, yet, Laurence Blair said his electric chi felt like Chang's. A lot of the kriya yoga techniques focus on the chakras.

Edited June 12, 2010 by enouch

[enouch]

page 69 it was a different school than mo pai in which he studied. It never elaborates on which school it was. I wonder how many schools with 72 or higher level systems there are.

 

 

 

 

 

What's worthy of note is the lack of morality or how virtue isn't important just an application of natural law, just like the natural world.what goes on behind the metaphysical curtain who can say.

[electric chi magnet]

i dont know man

 

it says in the magus of java that in 5yrs that john chang's sifu reached level 26!!!! and in another 5yrs level 30!!!!

 

wtf

 

 

So heres my question if such accelered training is possible then why does john chang not have a level 4 student? even though some of them have been training for years.

 

when i told my sifu about level 4 being dangerous to accomplish he said bullshit and laughed. at the time i thought my sifu was crazy but now i dont know.

 

so heres some more questions.

1.how does the lei shan dao's immortality stand up to the other taoist practices of immortality

2. is bio electricity only limited to the lei shan dao?

3. is the mixing of yin yang essential to all taoist immortality practices?

 

just some thoughts

Edited June 12, 2010 by electric chi magnet

[Sloppy Zhang]

The thing about hate, fear, and other more "negative" emotions is that they narrow your focus. They make your entire world revolve around one single thing.

 

Which can be good or bad.

 

If you channel that focus into something like, I dunno, spiritual/energy training, and block out everything else, then I'd say you have a good chance at progressing faster than someone who is gazing at all the pretty flowers as they walk down the road. If you're doing a full sprint because all you care about is the destination, well obviously you're going to get there faster. And that may or may not be a good thing.

 

As for the tea thing, I dunno, I haven't read the story in question But there is some saying about "killing with kindness" so who knows.

 

What's worthy of note is the lack of morality or how virtue isn't important just an application of natural law, just like the natural world.what goes on behind the metaphysical curtain who can say.

 

I was reading Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon not too long ago, and he said something along the lines of "there is no good or evil because all of them were created according to the Universal Laws". Which is a somewhat blasphemous thought I've kicked around myself a few times (the very act of which is blasphemy) and that is if God made everything then everything necessarily have a purpose and if God's plan is perfect then even "evil" things have to necessarily be perfect. Which screws up morality and "good vs. evil" and all that other stuff. (you can replace "God" with whatever Universal Cosmic Force you want to I guess)

 

Anyway, at the end of the day, don't be a jerk and don't use my ideas to hurt people!!!!!

[fizix]

i dont know man

 

it says in the magus of java that in 5yrs that john chang's sifu reached level 26!!!! and in another 5yrs level 30!!!!

 

wtf

 

 

So heres my question if such accelered training is possible then why does john chang not have a level 4 student? even though some of them have been training for years.

 

when i told my sifu about level 4 being dangerous to accomplish he said bullshit and laughed. at the time i thought my sifu was crazy but now i dont know.

 

so heres some more questions.

1.how does the lei shan dao's immortality stand up to the other taoist practices of immortality

2. is bio electricity only limited to the lei shan dao?

3. is the mixing of yin yang essential to all taoist immortality practices?

 

just some thoughts

 

Why doesn't John Chang have a level 4 student? How do you know he already doesn't? Perhaps the reasons are irrelevant compared to how an early 20th century monk accelerated so quickly; some people are geniuses in the spiritual sense (lao tzu, buddha, jesus) and indescribably surpass their peers in experience.

 

How is your Sifu related to the Mo Pai school or understand the mechanics and apparent safety of level 4? Maybe your Sifu isn't crazy, but plenty of them are.

 

2. Lei Shan Dao is just a commercial lineage that David Verdessi made up comprising out of several well known systems.

 

4. The mating of yin and yang to compliment the all ONE the Tao into non-duality represents enlightenment/immortality and as the Mo Pai system aims to accomplish this mating as a literal feat of ying and yang chi, well, one can only guess unless one is John Chang.

[electric chi magnet]

fizix,

 

1. does john chang have a lv 4 student? ive heard no but please correct me.

2. if the term leishandao is fake then what branch of taoism does the mo pai belong to or which branch or kind of taoist alchemy is it? please correct me.

3. i already knew what the joining of yin and yang is suppose to represent. What i was asking is how does that stack to the other forms of taoist alchemy that leads to immortality. that was the question.

4. i dont think the sifu liao was a genius in cultivation i do however believe and can safely say that either way he had a better way of training. Period (that's obvious) but whats unclear is if john chang's teacher either invented or learned a faster method then why didnt he pass it on to john and if he did then why doesnt john pass it on to his students. Or if he has then i will ask again who else out of the mo pai has reached level 4?

 

so you didnt answer anything i was asking and basically wasted my time and yours by posting something that everyone already knew anyways.

[fizix]

fizix,

 

1. does john chang have a lv 4 student? ive heard no but please correct me.

2. if the term leishandao is fake then what branch of taoism does the mo pai belong to or which branch or kind of taoist alchemy is it? please correct me.

3. i already knew what the joining of yin and yang is suppose to represent. What i was asking is how does that stack to the other forms of taoist alchemy that leads to immortality. that was the question.

4. i dont think the sifu liao was a genius in cultivation i do however believe and can safely say that either way he had a better way of training. Period (that's obvious) but whats unclear is if john chang's teacher either invented or learned a faster method then why didnt he pass it on to john and if he did then why doesnt john pass it on to his students. Or if he has then i will ask again who else out of the mo pai has reached level 4?

 

so you didnt answer anything i was asking and basically wasted my time and yours by posting something that everyone already knew anyways.

ahahahhah, you are asking questions that are pointless to speculate on, THAT is the waste of time here. Your external interests in lineage lore and semantics is indicative of your lack of spiritual achievement; you are wasting your time in this arena. I urge you to go and begin actual practice, instead of obsess on matters that are of no relevance to you, you will get nowhere but further away from the path.

[electric chi magnet]

ahahahhah, you are asking questions that are pointless to speculate on, THAT is the waste of time here. Your external interests in lineage lore and semantics is indicative of your lack of spiritual achievement; you are wasting your time in this arena. I urge you to go and begin actual practice, instead of obsess on matters that are of no relevance to you, you will get nowhere but further away from the path.

 

wow i didnt think you would repeat the same mistake twice but you did. You replied and did not answer any questions and or drop some other relevent information. Then you assume that i dont know anything when it is clear that you dont know the answers to my questions. Plus you act as if your some insider.

 

Just to let you know i am a taoist and i know alot about taoist theory and practice. I practice a different form of alchemy than mo pai and i just wanted to see how i stack up. Thats why i was asking but go ahead if you want to challenge my knowledge on taoist alchemy lets do it ill embarrass you ill drop a post that has so much knowledge that you wont know whether to be impressed or insulted.

[Aetherous]

ill drop a post that has so much knowledge that you wont know whether to be impressed or insulted.

 

Bring it!

[electric chi magnet]

Scotty,

 

well id like too but id like my questions answered first i just cant stand being told im wrong for asking a question by someone who does not know the answers himself. id still like an answer to my questions.

[宁]

How [haven't read all the book] was the evil warlord in isolation able to accelerate his training to level 52? Did he have a copy of the text? I'm referring to the Magus of Java

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z18prjuvkA

 

You'll find the answer watching this movie. Excellent!

[NeiChuan]

i dont know man

 

it says in the magus of java that in 5yrs that john chang's sifu reached level 26!!!! and in another 5yrs level 30!!!!

 

wtf

 

 

So heres my question if such accelered training is possible then why does john chang not have a level 4 student? even though some of them have been training for years.

 

when i told my sifu about level 4 being dangerous to accomplish he said bullshit and laughed. at the time i thought my sifu was crazy but now i dont know.

 

so heres some more questions.

1.how does the lei shan dao's immortality stand up to the other taoist practices of immortality

2. is bio electricity only limited to the lei shan dao?

3. is the mixing of yin yang essential to all taoist immortality practices?

 

just some thoughts

 

I really think the energy is just different.. On the fundamentals you may listen to a mopai practitioner.. But what works and what doesn't, may be another matter all together.

 

What works in nae gong maybe be well interpreted by a mo pai practitioner.. But Chi kung probably won't be.

 

For example. If you have a chi kung method where you see benefits through the roof, a mo pai practitioner may see nothing.. But if the energy is similar to that of mo pai, or meridians developed, its a different story.

 

Thats just what I've gathered really.. Anyway it takes long enough just to differenciate yin and yang chi.. Whether chi kung or nae gong, so I would'nt be so quick to take advice about pushing the two together.

 

There are lots of different methods of fusing the two.

[Non]

uhhhh

 

what book are you all talking about, with the levels and stuff? where can I get information on this sytem?

[mjjbecker]

fizix,

 

1. does john chang have a lv 4 student? ive heard no but please correct me.

2. if the term leishandao is fake then what branch of taoism does the mo pai belong to or which branch or kind of taoist alchemy is it? please correct me.

3. i already knew what the joining of yin and yang is suppose to represent. What i was asking is how does that stack to the other forms of taoist alchemy that leads to immortality. that was the question.

4. i dont think the sifu liao was a genius in cultivation i do however believe and can safely say that either way he had a better way of training. Period (that's obvious) but whats unclear is if john chang's teacher either invented or learned a faster method then why didnt he pass it on to john and if he did then why doesnt john pass it on to his students. Or if he has then i will ask again who else out of the mo pai has reached level 4?

 

so you didnt answer anything i was asking and basically wasted my time and yours by posting something that everyone already knew anyways.

 

1. Last I heard, which is going back several years now, is no. That does not mean that no student is, or is not, capable. As far as I know, no-one has taken up the mantle. Things, as I understand, are very closed door now, so we aren't likely to get any answers.

2. It isn't 'daoist'. The school does, despite the comments made by someone here, originate from Mo Tzu. The practices do have similarities with more than one school (hardly surprising). I won't add to that (because I am not allowed to-I took an oath not to discuss the details).

3. Don't know. I think to answer this one would have to be deeply intimate with different schools and methods. Perhaps Wang Liping, given the depth of knowledge within his lineage, might be able to answer this question if he wanted to. Outside someone of his level, they would be speculating. People are entitled to speculate, but it must be remembered that it is only that in the end-speculation.

4. The Magus of Java is not a 'bible' and certain points within it were deliberately obfuscated (I know this for a fact. 'Why' is not for me to say). One point about there being one successor per generation is correct. That means, to use Hollywood parlance, 'there can be only one'. Why? Haven't a clue, but it seems to be the way of the school. Another point though, about this being a mountain practice, I have made before. Progress needs seclusion. Again, not unusual as it is the case with other traditions. Modern MP practitioners lead modern lives, which is going to make progress rather difficult. It must be remembered that for a person to actually complete level one is rare, never mind anything beyond this.

 

For all we know, The Magus of Java could be mostly fiction. Who did what, how and when is something we have no direct experience of. So, this discussion is based on zero direct knowledge. No one here has attained 'level 4'. No one met Liao sijo. No one met this 'warlord'. No one witnessed the destruction of the village, nor has anyone provided any documentation to prove it actually happened. So, all in all just a lot of blind speculation. Something worth remembering.

 

@ Neichuan,

 

'Chi Kung' or qigong, is simply a modern all encompassing term for the various different practices. This is a historically documented fact. The term was adopted by the PRC in the late 1940's. There are neigong systems labelled as qigong-something which happened when several famous teachers published books on their methods in Chinese.

 

Regarding 'virtue', a lack of it may not restrict someones ability to do neigong. That does not mean that said practitioners are 'released' from the consequences of their actions. They may have 'escaped' rebirth, but they will not have escaped answering for their actions. I'm not speculating here. The significance of virtue is very, very real. I emphasise this for the benefit of those reading this, and also for the benefit of innocents who may be hurt as a result of misconceived beliefs. EVERYONE answers for their actions.

 

John Chang stopped doing treatments for good reason (the details of which are no one else's business). He has held back his own progression in order to help many people. It would be nice if people didn't attack the reputation of a good man, given most have had little or no direct contact with the man. If people don't know the truth from direct sources, they don't know the truth. Leave the man be.

[NeiChuan]

1. Last I heard, which is going back several years now, is no. That does not mean that no student is, or is not, capable. As far as I know, no-one has taken up the mantle. Things, as I understand, are very closed door now, so we aren't likely to get any answers.

2. It isn't 'daoist'. The school does, despite the comments made by someone here, originate from Mo Tzu. The practices do have similarities with more than one school (hardly surprising). I won't add to that (because I am not allowed to-I took an oath not to discuss the details).

3. Don't know. I think to answer this one would have to be deeply intimate with different schools and methods. Perhaps Wang Liping, given the depth of knowledge within his lineage, might be able to answer this question if he wanted to. Outside someone of his level, they would be speculating. People are entitled to speculate, but it must be remembered that it is only that in the end-speculation.

4. The Magus of Java is not a 'bible' and certain points within it were deliberately obfuscated (I know this for a fact. 'Why' is not for me to say). One point about there being one successor per generation is correct. That means, to use Hollywood parlance, 'there can be only one'. Why? Haven't a clue, but it seems to be the way of the school. Another point though, about this being a mountain practice, I have made before. Progress needs seclusion. Again, not unusual as it is the case with other traditions. Modern MP practitioners lead modern lives, which is going to make progress rather difficult. It must be remembered that for a person to actually complete level one is rare, never mind anything beyond this.

 

For all we know, The Magus of Java could be mostly fiction. Who did what, how and when is something we have no direct experience of. So, this discussion is based on zero direct knowledge. No one here has attained 'level 4'. No one met Liao sijo. No one met this 'warlord'. No one witnessed the destruction of the village, nor has anyone provided any documentation to prove it actually happened. So, all in all just a lot of blind speculation. Something worth remembering.

 

@ Neichuan,

 

'Chi Kung' or qigong, is simply a modern all encompassing term for the various different practices. This is a historically documented fact. The term was adopted by the PRC in the late 1940's. There are neigong systems labelled as qigong-something which happened when several famous teachers published books on their methods in Chinese.

 

Regarding 'virtue', a lack of it may not restrict someones ability to do neigong. That does not mean that said practitioners are 'released' from the consequences of their actions. They may have 'escaped' rebirth, but they will not have escaped answering for their actions. I'm not speculating here. The significance of virtue is very, very real. I emphasise this for the benefit of those reading this, and also for the benefit of innocents who may be hurt as a result of misconceived beliefs. EVERYONE answers for their actions.

 

John Chang stopped doing treatments for good reason (the details of which are no one else's business). He has held back his own progression in order to help many people. It would be nice if people didn't attack the reputation of a good man, given most have had little or no direct contact with the man. If people don't know the truth from direct sources, they don't know the truth. Leave the man be.

 

Hm yeah I understand, thank you. I don't mean anything to John Chang ofcourse, infact.. I'd rather not see him popup in the posts and such anymore. Just not be brought up and such, It doesn't help him or even more so us.

 

Thanks though.

[mjjbecker]

Hm yeah I understand, thank you. I don't mean anything to John Chang ofcourse, infact.. I'd rather not see him popup in the posts and such anymore. Just not be brought up and such, It doesn't help him or even more so us.

 

Thanks though.

 

You are very welcome and I agree.

 

There are other high level teachers in the public arena now, perhaps most notably Wang Liping. There are disciples of his teaching in both the US and Europe. This provides a golden opportunity for interested parties to do something, rather than just speculate. It would be nice to see some threads about 'Opening the Dragon Gate' and the information in that instead.

[NeiChuan]

You are very welcome and I agree.

 

There are other high level teachers in the public arena now, perhaps most notably Wang Liping. There are disciples of his teaching in both the US and Europe. This provides a golden opportunity for interested parties to do something, rather than just speculate. It would be nice to see some threads about 'Opening the Dragon Gate' and the information in that instead.

 

Yeah agreed, take the opportunity rather then stay home and study, wasting the energy usable for something more productive.

 

Thanks again.

[enouch]

The thing about hate, fear, and other more "negative" emotions is that they narrow your focus. They make your entire world revolve around one single thing.

 

Which can be good or bad.

 

If you channel that focus into something like, I dunno, spiritual/energy training, and block out everything else, then I'd say you have a good chance at progressing faster than someone who is gazing at all the pretty flowers as they walk down the road. If you're doing a full sprint because all you care about is the destination, well obviously you're going to get there faster. And that may or may not be a good thing.

 

As for the tea thing, I dunno, I haven't read the story in question But there is some saying about "killing with kindness" so who knows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well let me be clear as a theist I definitely believe good is ultimately stronger than evil. It's just being righteous requires more effort/energy, it's much easier to junk up a room then to clean it up. It's much easier to place your own selfish self interest above your own sense of honour. I believe every hair on my head is numbered and every word I speak I will give an account of on the day of judgment.

 

Still though we would be less than honest as human beings if we didn't acknowledge evil sometimes appears stronger or bad things happen to good people. Why did that baby die in a horrible fire? Why didn't the forces of good stop the holocaust/slavery/ not too mention natural disasters. Evil is much more seductive,that said I think most people range the spectrum,ending up neutral.

 

Regarding the Magus of Java book...the friends of the author originally swore everything was painstakingly attended too,great attention to detail was given. There were misleads to keep others from discerning secrets or a few honest mistakes. Direct experience is important and yes it could all be a lie but then so could the idea of consequences following from ''misconceived beliefs'' so in the end we all choose what to accept or reject based on our values,experience, and ideals.

 

Regarding destiny or fate? If destiny is so all pervasive, so all consuming why the need to hide the methods? By that I mean if it is determined by heaven and not by hard[free will] work[probably both] then why all the secrecy.Most likely because a large part is based solely on natural law and others don't want these secrets out in the public domain.Perhaps they are dangerous to society at large. One taobum member mentioned that is the real reason mo pai is kept secret.Another thing worth noting is that even those who want secret methods out there still withhold certain methods from public internet forums because of the time invested or the the methods are too powerful.

 

Electric chi start practicing what you know and revelations will come,distinctions on the nature of chi as well. Teachers/teachings will appear many paths/insights will start to manifest. Where to gather chi, the mechanics of chi,how things overlap ecetera. For example Santiago wrote in an old post as did another mo pai member the kalamissada schools are very similar to mo pai,with subtle exceptions.Don't just read the lines read between the lines.God and the devil are in the details.Listen to the pros and cons, then listen to your own heart.Other systems reportedly have ways of achieving the yin and yang gong.Also there is a rumor of a chinese student of mo pai getting to level four in record time,due in part to understanding classical Chinese.

 

Yup governments and secret neigong societies have reasons for their secrets, I guess.But then there is a saying:'' It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, it is the glory of man to find it out'' Here's a nice clip on integrity, actually on correctly balancing the weightier matters.The best part is at the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MTwbEjIGbg&feature=related

Edited June 13, 2010 by enouch

[Spirit Ape]

More Pie,

 

Hey bro, my systems of Sunn Yee Gung has 72 levels of seated and standing meditations!

 

Ape