What is your favorite Qigong System and Why?

[rain]

Rain, Joe,

 

What you guys are saying is that ZZ or Kunlun or I Jong - all these lead to spontaneous practice but intensity is different? And same type of spontaneous energy? I don't understand the difference between the three practices...bear with the ignorant me

 

 

Raymond Wolter

If you pose the question like this I have to say No.

My personal route was from hatha yoga to tkd, and tkd introduced ZZ.

I re encoutered the ZZ stance in qigong, less heavy, but the combination of

neigong and heavy static luohan stances released hormones in my blood that led to involuntary movements

when "locked and circulated" in the ZZ.

 

Kunlun came so much later. I was trained by then and used to standing spontaneous reactions, so

the strain in the sittting poses (for those who never trained ZZ) and groupmechanics

didn't get to me.

 

To me it looked like the announced powerful reactions kunlun initiated in a few

was a mix of expectations, groupsynergy (read grouphysteria)

and weak untrainedd legmusculature.

But I am such a sceptic.

I see spontaneous as an outcome of another qigong practise, as qiflow working in a closed circuit.

Edited June 19, 2010 by rain

[rain]

Raymond Wolter

If you pose the question like this I have to say No.

My personal route was from hatha yoga to tkd, and tkd introduced ZZ.

I re encoutered the ZZ stance in qigong, less heavy, but the combination of

neigong and heavy static luohan stances released hormones in my blood that led to involuntary movements

when "locked and circulated" in the ZZ.

 

Kunlun came so much later. I was trained by then and used to standing spontaneous reactions, so

the strain in the sittting poses (for those who never trained ZZ) and groupmechanics

didn't get to me.

 

To me it looked like the announced powerful reactions kunlun initiated in a few

was a mix of expectations, groupsynergy (read grouphysteria)

and weak untrainedd legmusculature.

But I am such a sceptic.

I see spontaneous as an outcome of another qigong practise, as qiflow working in a closed circuit.

 

thinking..rather than flow better say qi working on the whole

making you feel like flow

[Ya Mu]

"Can" but not likely. A good master teaching an intensive system can teach you much more in four once a week classes than you can get at even the best seminars, and most seminars are far from 'best'. Also you get to practice between classes so what you learn 'sticks' and evolves much better than what you learn from a seminar, in addition, for the cost of one seminar you can typically go to a year or two worth of classes, the constant repetition of classes solidifies the complex learnings and the continuous learning of new material also creates more motivation to continue practice like no seminar can.

 

The master has said: seminars are a joke, which is putting it more nicely than what he actually said.

 

However, some seminars may have some use for long term students.

Hi,

I was referring to booklet/dvd courses.

 

But, will say that time after time after time I have students tell me they get more from one workshop with me than from several years of training in other systems. And I wish to quote (paraphrase) a dude called Starjumper, "Not all qigong systems are equal." "There is a difference between "wimpy" qigong and real qigong." If I improperly paraphrased what you said I apologize, please set me straight.

 

 

The master has said: seminars are a joke, which is putting it more nicely than what he actually said.

Nope. Entirely depends on the workshop. Instead of making such a general statement, the quality of the seminar would need to be evaluated. Kinda like saying, "I ate a rotten apple therefore all apples taste like crap."

 

edit: But I do agree, long term study of an efficient system beats the hell out of a single workshop. I encourage folks to stick with it and offer a 500 hr certification program. I have never understood "workshop junkies" who take one form one week and another the next week. Hard to imagine what they end up practicing.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Raymond Wolter]

I practice Yi Gong, which I learned from Sifu Jenny, who taught Max half of the Kunlun practice (the spontaneous half).

 

It's my favorite thus far because it's the easiest. You sit down and let go. heh. It's also quite effective.

 

Also, in my opinion, doing Qi Gong without mind training is like working on your car's engine without learning to drive..

 

Hi Mikaelz,

 

I do anapana/vipassana practices for many years. Not sure that is what you were referring to as mind training? Also work with a bit of NLP and stuff. Lately decided to add some energy practices along with.

 

Yi Gong is different from I Jong - the standing practice? What kind of benefits do you get from this exercise? I tried holding the hand posture last night and raised my heels and nothing happened. Legs trembled a little, but they trembled even when I didn't hold the posture. So I was not sure if anything was happening. I tried the spinal rotation but still nothing

[Raymond Wolter]

Raymond Wolter

If you pose the question like this I have to say No.

My personal route was from hatha yoga to tkd, and tkd introduced ZZ.

I re encoutered the ZZ stance in qigong, less heavy, but the combination of

neigong and heavy static luohan stances released hormones in my blood that led to involuntary movements

when "locked and circulated" in the ZZ.

 

Kunlun came so much later. I was trained by then and used to standing spontaneous reactions, so

the strain in the sittting poses (for those who never trained ZZ) and groupmechanics

didn't get to me.

 

To me it looked like the announced powerful reactions kunlun initiated in a few

was a mix of expectations, groupsynergy (read grouphysteria)

and weak untrainedd legmusculature.

But I am such a sceptic.

I see spontaneous as an outcome of another qigong practise, as qiflow working in a closed circuit.

 

Dear Rain, thank you! I don't quite get everything you said but feels totally right when I read. I will ponder over this again and yet again

[Raymond Wolter]

the Eight Treasures, taught by Master Ni Hua Ching. (This isn't the Eight Brocades). It is a wonderful balance of stretching, strength/stability work, and Qi intent training.

 

 

Thanks Stigweard. Totally like the sound of it. Will check it out. Trunk's advice got into my head and so I started practicing SFQ but will continue to explore other systems.

[Raymond Wolter]

One can start to gain Power through simply doing good deeds through compassion; not enough, but a good start. But the act can help lead to the cultivation of Virtue which is required for one to get beyond a certain point in the pursuit of Power. Also required is assuming responsibility. If a person does not assume responsibility why should he/she be granted Power? Also required is raising the energy body vibration rate. I always laugh, there was a person here who posted under a Starperson something who now posts under a different name. But he talked about "wimpy qigong" versus real qigong. Well, not very political but he sure had a valid point. Through some practices it simply will be very difficult to actually raise the energy body vibration rate. So to gain Power one must choose their practices carefully. Also helps greatly to have a teacher who can actually manipulate energy. One also has to align themselves with the Divine. Sure one can get to a certain point (at least they think they can )without doing so. But beyond this point it must be so.

 

Wimpy vs Real. Is realness of a qigong something to have to do with specific forms or the quality of practice?

 

 

Also, any one here does Falun Gong? I read an old post here which warned against it as t beamed energy back to oneself. Not too sure about what that does.

[Ya Mu]

Wimpy vs Real. Is realness of a qigong something to have to do with specific forms or the quality of practice?

 

...

There is a vast array of qigong systems that go from simple stretching, simple breathing, to complicated and not-so-complicating energy cultivation. It is buyer beware.

That said, don't let what I said above throw you, I was simply friendly tweaking SJ.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

The Tao of Natural Sovereignty:

 

You have no teacher but the innate self.

 

You have no guidance but reflection and recognition.

 

There are no authorities above or below you but the ultimate authority; you, and you alone are responsible for your well being, your placement, and your function and flow.

 

You cannot be taught the natural path, you must take that step and begin to learn it.

 

To master the mind and the body as omnipresent self, you cannot be shown what your unique anatomy needs, you cannot be taught what movements will help or hinder your body, you can only try and test your motions.

 

To begin, declare yourself sovereign and willingly aligned to the will of the ultimate authority, out loud.

A declaration cannot simply be spoken, but must be meant in order to take effect. Do not simply say these words, but mean them with the fullest intent to uphold your end of the contract.

 

If your contract is accepted, you are then and from then on the only person who can teach you until you give up your sovereign rights and allow others' words to hold authority over your actions.

 

Upon receiving sovereignty, I recommend immediate high intensity tension exercises in the form of T'ai Chi, Qi Gong, and Yoga, to find your true self and the nature of your movements.

This can be everything from stretching to running to pushups to handstands. you might or might not desire privacy for these steps.

just dont hurt yourself until you are ready to use pain as a tool for becoming stronger and recognize the true representatives that pain, pleasure, itching, and relaxation are.

[adept]

The Tao of Natural Sovereignty:

 

You have no teacher but the innate self

 

You have no guidance but reflection and recognition.

 

There are no authorities above or below you but the ultimate authority; you, and you alone are responsible for your well being, your placement, and your function and flow.

 

You cannot be taught the natural path, you must take that step and begin to learn it.

 

To master the mind and the body as omnipresent self, you cannot be shown what your unique anatomy needs, you cannot be taught what movements will help or hinder your body, you can only try and test your motions.

 

To begin, declare yourself sovereign and willingly aligned to the will of the ultimate authority, out loud.

A declaration cannot simply be spoken, but must be meant in order to take effect. Do not simply say these words, but mean them with the fullest intent to uphold your end of the contract.

 

If your contract is accepted, you are then and from then on the only person who can teach you until you give up your sovereign rights and allow others' words to hold authority over your actions.

 

Upon receiving sovereignty, I recommend immediate high intensity tension exercises in the form of T'ai Chi, Qi Gong, and Yoga, to find your true self and the nature of your movements.

This can be everything from stretching to running to pushups to handstands. you might or might not desire privacy for these steps.

just dont hurt yourself until you are ready to use pain as a tool for becoming stronger and recognize the true representatives that pain, pleasure, itching, and relaxation are.

 

Excellent post.

[Pero]

He who teaches himself has a fool for a teacher. And who has himself as a teacher has a fool for a student.

[Thunder_Gooch]

He who teaches himself has a fool for a teacher. And who has himself as a teacher has a fool for a student.

 

lol

 

I prefer to learn on my own via books and courses like spring forest qigong etc. I learn better on my own.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autodidacticism#Scientists.2C_historians.2C_and_educators

Edited June 20, 2010 by More_Pie_Guy

[Thunder_Gooch]

Spring forest qigong, The system described in the book "the tao of meditation" and robert bruce's system of energy work are all very easy to learn and effective. Those are my choices.

[Kameel]

Well,

We're all fools and all kings,

and everything in between,

and we're all learning and all teaching,

at least is what I've seen

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

He who teaches himself has a fool for a teacher. And who has himself as a teacher has a fool for a student.

 

 

ONLY the greatest fool can grow up to become the wisest elder...

 

it is a matter of surviving and reflecting upon one's own foolhardiness.

 

 

If you cannot reflect, only then are you a true fool.

[Starjumper]

Hi,

I was referring to booklet/dvd courses.

 

Um, ya, but you also refered to seminars and I was responding to that

 

But, will say that time after time after time I have students tell me they get more from one workshop with me than from several years of training in other systems. And I wish to quote (paraphrase) a dude called Starjumper, "Not all qigong systems are equal." "There is a difference between "wimpy" qigong and real qigong." If I improperly paraphrased what you said I apologize, please set me straight.

 

I can’t recall exactly how I stated it, but that’s close enough. Most of the chi kung systems out there, in this country at least, are astoundingly wimpy, and for people to react with the kind of enthusiasm they do must mean they are very sensitive.

 

Does it seem to you that people these days are more sensitive to energy than a few decades ago, or is that before your time? I think maybe more people now are more sensitive because so few get exercise and soft muscles can more easily feel chi, also I wonder if so many people being overweight is an aspect of it, as overweight people will have more nerves to act as antenna.

 

A couple of decades ago my teacher predicted that chi kung would become popular but I had no idea it would be such a disaster. My view is that most people will do far better learning a good tai chi form than from most types of chi kung, but still a good tai chi form is like molasses compared to a high power chi kung system LEARNED FROM A HIGH POWER TEACHER, IN PERSON!

 

Anyway, there's no doubt that a high power seminar will teach more than a year of wimpy chi kung classes or that two or three classes of real chi kung will teach far more than one seminar of wimpy chi kung

 

The master has said: seminars are a joke, which is putting it more nicely than what he actually said.

 

Nope. Entirely depends on the workshop. Instead of making such a general statement, the quality of the seminar would need to be evaluated.

 

Yes BUT (and that’s a really big But, isn’t it?) My generalized statement was a response to your generalized statement so I call no fair. I think you used the secret escape clause, the word ‘can, and so did I, I think. =)

 

edit: But I do agree, long term study of an efficient system beats the hell out of a single workshop. I encourage folks to stick with it and offer a 500 hr certification program. I have never understood "workshop junkies" who take one form one week and another the next week. Hard to imagine what they end up practicing.

 

There ya go, we’re on the same page after all. We don’t do certifications or anything of that nature in our system. It’s all very casual, except for the part where people who take it casually get kicked out before we get to the really good stuff.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Ya Mu]

...

Does it seem to you that people these days are more sensitive to energy than a few decades ago, or is that before your time? I think maybe more people now are more sensitive because so few get exercise and soft muscles can more easily feel chi, also I wonder if so many people being overweight is an aspect of it, as overweight people will have more nerves to act as antenna.

...

This is an interesting observation and one that I have seen as well. I don't draw the same conclusion as you but I think if we interviewed 10 qigong teachers that have been teaching 25 years or more they all will say they have observed increased sensitivity. I noticed that a change from even 7-8 years ago but huge change from 25 years ago. Some I have talked with about this said it was because of my own personal growth. But I don't think so. I think folks do have an increased sensitivity - whatever the reason.

[Kameel]

IMO chi sensitivity has nothing to do with some contrived musculoskeletal to adipose tissue ratio. It's fundamental a skill, like anything else, which requires dedicated one-pointed attention and focus. Now, is it true that one would experience better results if their muscular tonus was not overly restricted (i.e. in a relaxed physical and subsequently mental state)? Of course. But, the major reason people are more sensitive to energy is because of all the people that have trained before. A resonance effect. Kind of like the 4 minute mile. So to the renegades and pioneers, I give my gratitute and blessings.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Kameel

[Raymond Wolter]

Most of the chi kung systems out there, in this country at least, are astoundingly wimpy

 

So are they any qigong systems accessible in this country today that you don't consider wimpy?

[Starjumper]

Yes.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

So where can i find a master of the "non wimpy style" qi gong in Oregon?

 

"the non wimpy style" is SO intimidating.

[Ya Mu]

IMO chi sensitivity has nothing to do with some contrived musculoskeletal to adipose tissue ratio. It's fundamental a skill, like anything else, which requires dedicated one-pointed attention and focus. Now, is it true that one would experience better results if their muscular tonus was not overly restricted (i.e. in a relaxed physical and subsequently mental state)? Of course. But, the major reason people are more sensitive to energy is because of all the people that have trained before. A resonance effect. Kind of like the 4 minute mile. So to the renegades and pioneers, I give my gratitute and blessings.

I do think in part that you are entirely correct. I tell students that when they do High Level energetics that they not only effect just themselves in a small sphere but everyone. And there is a definite magnetic induction effect when an experienced practitioner is within proximity to a non-practitioner or beginner.

 

Also think more universal. I believe it is agreed that the earth's schumann resonance has increased over the last several years. So, could we be looking at an overall quickening (shifting)? I believe so. Time has gotten faster. Ask most people and they will say things like, "I used to be able to get much more done in a day." The typical response to this is that the person is getting older. I don't think that is the reason at all. What I have found is that those who do the Stillness-Movement practice actually create time (have more time to get things done). This, I do believe and have experienced, is due to the raising of the energy body vibration. I think that, as time goes on, people who do not practice will have increasing difficulty with this.

[Starjumper]

Concerning the Schumann resonance, I doubt if it can change because it is based on a ratio of the speed of light and the diameter of the Earth. In short, the diameter of the Earth is close to the distance that light travels in 1/8 of a second and so this sets up the resonance of aprox 8CPS (cycles per second) and harmonics of that, of course. The power that drives it probably comes from lightning, of which there are about ten thousand per day, and they can be heard around the world. Therefore it can only change if the diameter of the Earth or the speed of light is changing, and neither is likely. I suspect that if there are websites that say it is changing that they are copycatting unscientific misinformation.

 

On the other hand, if space is being warped, and we can warp space, can't we? then that would affect it.

 

As to the increase in chi sensitivity there are several possibilities I have thought of. I have a couple of younger students, well, just one of them now because the other was forced out. Neither of them are overweight and they both have good muscle tone but not hard muscles, and both have great sensitivity to chi.

 

More possibilities are that we now have more power and so can more easily affect others, that we are more immersed in this 'trade' and so attract people who have been open to it mentally and who have a preexisting aptitude. At least it makes it easier to bounce them off the wall or fall down without touching them.

 

I think the most likely possibilities are that our society is much more open to the idea of body energy now and also somehow the work of previous masters is boosting it, in a way like the hundredth monkey effect that Kameel mentioned ... but there is more.

 

For example, one of my martial arts buddies spent years hitch hiking around the country with a Kriya yoga master. A couple of times that teacher's teacher was with them and once they had just set up their tents and the senior teacher asked my friend if he was hungry. The answer was yes and so the teacher made a gesture of opening his arms and a nice meal appeared in front of them. I'm not going to fight with the weenies about whether or not this is possible, the point I want to make is that back then there were about forty people on the planet who had this ability and now there are around a thousand, or so I have heard.

 

This indicates that there is a change going on in the human race and the increasing chi sensitivity and psychic abilities of people is apart of this. It may be just as simple as the yin and yang balancing out and this is balancing out what the Bushits of the world are doing to it. In any case, I think things are going to get quite 'interesting'.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Starjumper7

[gendao]

For example, one of my martial arts buddies spent years hitch hiking around the country with a Kriya yoga master. A couple of times that teacher's teacher was with them and once they had just set up their tents and the senior teacher asked my friend if he was hungry. The answer was yes and so the teacher made a gesture of opening his arms and a nice meal appeared in front of them. I'm not going to fight with the weenies about whether or not this is possible, the point I want to make is that back then there were about forty people on the planet who had this ability and now there are around a thousand, or so I have heard.

Interesting, was this a disciple of Yogananda, or someone else?

 

Also, I've heard more of the opposite. At least amongst the Chinese masters, the current ones are only fractionally as powerful as their masters. And these are mostly all aging and dying off now. Meanwhile, most of their students are raised in the modern world full of vapid pop culture and thus also likely to continue this downward trend as well...

Edited June 21, 2010 by vortex

[Starjumper]

Interesting, was this a disciple of Yogananda, or someone else?

 

Nothing to do with Yogananda, there are many 'secret' lineages in the world that book readers and forum goers never hear about, and the very powerful ones are normally found there, not here or in books.

 

Also, I've heard more of the opposite. At least amongst the Chinese masters, the current ones are only fractionally as powerful as their masters. And these are mostly all aging and dying off now. Meanwhile, most of their students are raised in the modern world full of vapid pop culture and thus also likely to continue this downward trend...

 

Well this is true in a way, it could be that quantity is making up for quality, and the culture is the reason there are so few are interested in really working at it, but there are some extremely rare students that develop astounding abilities. One of the problems with the Chinese masters is that they are reluctant to give it all away. However some few good ones do give most of it away but in sort of a puzzle form, so you have to figure out the puzzle to find those 'missing' parts ... and then you have to grab the bull by the balls and run.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Starjumper7