Energy Circulation in Standing Meditation

[WallaMike]

I joined the Tao Bums group today after searching exhaustively on the internet for anything that discussed qi or energy circulation during standing meditation, but could not find much. While doing my searching, I noted most of the discussions here on this forum were thoughtful, generally helpful, and rarely was there the bashing or dis-ing I see in most websites. So, I thought hey, why not join and see if these members could help me with this?

I read a previous discussion in this forum where the member noted that just standing and being mindful or aware is all that is needed. While I understand this, it hasn't worked for me, since I get pain in my shoulder and trapezius muscles after a few minutes. This improved over a few months, but still nothing energetic going on. Unless I do something with my intent, I seem to be a person that unconsciously suppresses energy movement. Thus, the only way I've ever been able to do any qi work or get qi movement is though using my intent to move energy around.

Last week, by doing some subtle movements (rocking slowly on and off the front of my feet/bubbling wellspring area), I was able to feel some energy moving up my legs and torso and this helped relieve some of my upper back and shoulder pain so I could stand a lot longer and I felt a lot better when done. I still felt better several days later, so I said, "Hey, I need to check into this more!"

Based upon this, I've been searching for more information in books and DVD's about energy movement patterns during standing meditation, but no luck. I ordered Mantak Chia's DVD on standing meditation, since apparently he discusses the microcosmic orbit related to this, but I haven't gotten it yet.

I also got Ken Cohen's DVD's on developing Qi, but this was mostly just a physical description. I haven't yet finished my Spring Forest Qigong Course I yet and I like what I see, but so far it seems to be a moving, not standing qigong. I've also read a number of recommended books, like The Way of Energy, Empty Force, Qigong Empowerment, etc, but still can't find but a sentence or two here and there about qi flow during standing meditation. I just bought the book on Dragonfly Qigong hoping that will help, as appareently he talks about energy flow along meridians in the book, but I'm not hopeful.

So, does anyone have any other suggestions about where I might find this information?

Thanks,

WallaMike

[devoid]

Hi WallaMike,

 

Welcome.

 

It sounds like you have all the books you need and simply need to start practising.

 

You mentioned the microcosmic orbit. That's a good place to start, indeed. You will find that in some of the books you're already reading, e.g. in Qigong Empowerment.

 

Apart from that I can advise you only to decide for one thing and then keep repeating your exercise (yes, you need some movement exercises to get you started - try standing meditation after doing some movements): If you're doing a special type of qigong movements: do them every day (the same ones, week on week) - if it's some internal martial arts - same principle: keep repeating the same basic elementary elements of that form day in and out for week on week. 100 days are often referred to for many things related to esoteric and energy training; the gong fu (=time and energy required) for your movement training is no different - by trying to master this (even if at first it may seem boring and unnecessary) it will help you begin opening your pathways and sensitivity and thereby help you gain an understanding of what energy feels like.

 

Breathing patterns are important too - silent, abdominal breathing in particular (also requires daily training) - you should be able to find some reference to that too in some of the books you mention.

 

Happy training

[WallaMike]

Devoid:

Thanks for your helpful reply. Once I start a program, I tend to do it intensively for months or longer. However, since in the past I've wasted oh so much time and just burned myself out doing mindless (in a non-Tao way) stuff, I'm now more careful in what I elect to do. So this time I'm trying to get some input so I don't go riding off in all directions at once! Plus, I tend to be fairly concrete and don't have good intuitive ideas yet in dealing with this area, while I think many people who do this are much more tuned in than I am. Thus, when I'm only taught the physical part of a qigong movement, I can do it, but I just don't get any energetic response from it, usually. But if I'm taught the specifics of what's going on at the subtle level, I can attend to that particular aspect and get biofeedback rather than just getting overwhelmed and guessing. My mind is way too fertile.

 

Your advice re doing the same thing for 100 days sounds good, so I will apply it to whatever I set up.

Yours,

WallaMike

[Aetherous]

WallaMike,

 

Energy flow is restricted due to the condition of the mind. So I have two things that you can do...

 

1) Stand for longer than you like. If you don't have leg injuries, start out standing for half an hour at a time. Then keep increasing the amount of time up to an hour. Disciplining your body to do something your mind/emotions don't want to do is a great way to break the mind. Then energy is released, because the mind that has held your body in-tension is momentarily destroyed. The tension then melts and you experience the flow.

 

2) As you're standing, gently and evenly breathe in and out. Keep your attention on the physical sensations of movement within your belly. The attention will always want to wander around, but by bringing it back you are once again disciplining the mind. At the same time, you're developing the dantien which will increase the energy flow.

 

It's enjoyable to feel your energy flowing, but that isn't the point. It's actually a trap to be looking for something to happen...better to practice these methods with no expectation...and when something is happening, to not think that it's time to quit practicing the method. Feeling energy is no big deal. What's more important is what you do with it.

[WallaMike]

Scotty:

Thanks for the advice. Definitely I will keep my awareness within my belly, as I think my dantien is chronically very weak. One reason feeling energy is a big deal to me is that I think I tend to suppress those feelings and it's gotten me into a lot of physical problems. My father was a scientist and I was a hard core scientist, until "science" failed me. That's when I started doing spiritual and energy work and it's taken a very long time, but it's finally paying off. However, I think your idea that energy flow is restricted by the condition of the mind applies to me in spades. I think my mind is pretty restricted and so I've had to push myself to get things started, but I'm doing it gently and slowly so as not to over do it! It wasn't until I read and spent many many hours practicing the exercises in Peter Ralston's book, Zen Body Being that I ever felt anything that I would call qi. So, for me, the last 1 1/2 years have been a real Renaissance. But, I'm not getting any younger, so I want to keep moving forward. Thus, I think standing meditation is going to be the next major form I add to my practice, but I want to do it right.

 

About 4 years ago, I spent 6 months getting ready for a meditation retreat, then spent another 6 months afterwards meditating 3 times a day, but nothing came out of it except discouragement and burnout. I even gave up drinking wine during time, since it affected my ability to meditate. It was awful! I'm finally recovering from my year of futility and recently have been more able to discipline myself without getting that hopeless feeling that I'm just pissing into the wind. The conversations so far on this website have been encouraging to me.

Yours,

WallaMike

[devoid]

[...]

Thus, when I'm only taught the physical part of a qigong movement, I can do it, but I just don't get any energetic response from it, usually. But if I'm taught the specifics of what's going on at the subtle level, I can attend to that particular aspect and get biofeedback rather than just getting overwhelmed and guessing. My mind is way too fertile.

[...]

 

Hi WallaMike,

 

This is a common issue that everybody has - one thing is learning it theorietically - another thing is being able to (paraphrasing the Chinese) do it without doing it; essentially this means trainng the movements so incredibly many times over (and preferably with some weekly guidance of an IMA or Qigong master to root out the wrong adjustments that one may rationalize into ones practise) that (paraphrasing Park Bok Nam - a Bagua Master) the movements eventually can become known to the body - i.e. in western terms: that you would be able to carry them out to perfection, while sleepwalking.

 

Now, back to your standing meditation: Although you can find many anecdotes suggesting that the feeling of energy may be overwhelming or gushing, I would simply look for signs of slight tingling - you can create this by focusing awareness - if you want to feel tingling, say on your coccyx (tailbone) - simply relax and think of it, its shape, its location relative to your mind (do this for a couple of minutes until you have a fuzzy feeling there)* - exhale completely (with the ambdomen drawn completely in), and as you begin to inhale you will do this by completely extending your abdomen (i.e. breathing not by dragging in air as we commonly do, but simply as a consequence of extending the abdomen (you will notice that your lungs will fill more slowly and silently (feels like the lungs extending first towards your back), without you "breathing in" air as you would normally do by pulling in air - simply let it flow in). Now during that abdominal inhale, imagine the slight (almost not there) tingling in your coccyx moving up your spine (preferably the inside of the spine - but that is not so important for now). You may need to practice the abdominal breathing first, separately, until you can do it "without doing"

 

Finally, make sure you are properly grounded when doing this: A neat little trick to help facilitate this is to slightly claw your toes into the ground (or floor, or inside of your shoe - whichever material your feet are standing on). Again, you will probably need to do this hundreds of times before it becomes an automation. Having said this, I assume you have your alignments right (spine straight, pelvis pushed slightly forward to straighten your tailbown - head up, chin slightly down to further straighten your spine, knees slight bent, no joint fully extended, relaxed, shoulders, down, chest relaxed (i.e. not lifted and neither held nor pushed forward), etc.

[WallaMike]

Hello devoid:

Thanks for the details. I printed them off to use this weekend. My main qigong/tai chi teacher is gone for 6 weeks, which is why I'm setting up an extra program to do when I'm normally with him. Thus, I started my 100 days program last night of standing meditation, in addition to my regular nightly program.

 

BTW, I thought I noted a question by you yesterday, but couldn't find it today. Please ignore this if it wasn't you. It concerned being bothered by your cell phone, etc. Since my background is in chemistry and physics, I have a little insight from that point of view. Bluetooth and other wireless equipment produce microwaves at about 2.4 Gigahertz. Your microwave oven produces microwaves at 2.45 Gigahertz and works through heating water. Since we are about 70% water, I suspect that that you're just picking upon this stimulus as your body becomes more sensitive to different frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum. Thus, if it bothers you to stand near your microwave oven, then that is why your cell phone also bothers you. I hope this helps.

[devoid]

Hello devoid:

Thanks for the details. I printed them off to use this weekend. My main qigong/tai chi teacher is gone for 6 weeks, which is why I'm setting up an extra program to do when I'm normally with him. Thus, I started my 100 days program last night of standing meditation, in addition to my regular nightly program.

 

BTW, I thought I noted a question by you yesterday, but couldn't find it today. Please ignore this if it wasn't you. It concerned being bothered by your cell phone, etc. Since my background is in chemistry and physics, I have a little insight from that point of view. Bluetooth and other wireless equipment produce microwaves at about 2.4 Gigahertz. Your microwave oven produces microwaves at 2.45 Gigahertz and works through heating water. Since we are about 70% water, I suspect that that you're just picking upon this stimulus as your body becomes more sensitive to different frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum. Thus, if it bothers you to stand near your microwave oven, then that is why your cell phone also bothers you. I hope this helps.

 

 

Hi WallaMike,

 

Yes, I did start a thread on cell phone and wifi radio waves bothering me particularly when I do a lot of energy training (you will find it in the discussion forum under: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14781-running-energy-and-sensitivity-to-radio-waves/ - pls. feel free to join the discussion thread!

 

I can confirm that (as you suspected) I hate standing next to the microwave as well! Incidently, WiFi is also 2.4 GHz according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wi-Fi (I googled it encouraged by your feedback)

 

Now, I am beginning to wonder if one could possibly measure people running energy at this frequency level? Would be kind of neat

 

NB - you mentioned water being affected by this frequency level: According to Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming (a prominent Taiji master, author and PhD (Purdue) in physics) theorizes that the body (in particular the bones and tendons) act as bio-electric conductors. He bases that in part on the fact that (as you also point out) that the body is so much water, which makes a poor conductor - instead, the bones and tendons contain less water and as a result are better candidates - I think you would enjoy his books: In particular his book "the Root of Chinese Qigong" is pretty extensive on this theory (he readily admits upfront that it remains to be tested and proven scientifically).

[Trunk]

Several hints:

 

1) Do joint rotations all over before standing.

2) Do some body-weight squats ditto.

3) Do self-acupressure ditto.

4) Explore standing moving-qi-gong practices as a complement to still standing.

 

cheers,

Trunk

[WallaMike]

Hello Trunk:

Thanks for the advice. I've looked into some standing qigong to supplement my standing and I think it will be very helpful. I also got an acupressure book and am learning the meridians so I can do a little self-treating. I do need to do more joint rotations before standing, getting too stiff, I think. I also think body weight squats will help. I try and do my tai chi before standing, including the "snake creeps down" form that does a deep squat and some others, but I probably need to do more.

Yours,

WallaMike

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Well you are aware of some obstruction in your path. part of being in a meditative state of reflection and awareness is to learn what needs to be addressed inside and outside your person.

 

 

I'd say start with teh pain and try to work at healing that obstruction.

 

 

 

 

Our entire being is a "type" of Medicine.

 

Learn your personal medicine by meditating and then learn how to USE your medicine with "active" meditations, like t'ai chi and qi gong.

[markern]

Several hints:

 

1) Do joint rotations all over before standing.

2) Do some body-weight squats ditto.

3) Do self-acupressure ditto.

4) Explore standing moving-qi-gong practices as a complement to still standing.

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

How much joint rotation are we talking about here?

[Trunk]

How much joint rotation are we talking about here?

 

Not much. Short warm-up on each of major joints: wrists & ankles (all 4 can be done simultaneously if you're sitting down), hips, shoulders, spine (esp neck).

 

p.s.

If you want to be more thorough then get Sonnon's Intu-flow.

[WallaMike]

Well you are aware of some obstruction in your path. part of being in a meditative state of reflection and awareness is to learn what needs to be addressed inside and outside your person.

 

 

I'd say start with teh pain and try to work at healing that obstruction.

 

 

 

 

Our entire being is a "type" of Medicine.

 

Learn your personal medicine by meditating and then learn how to USE your medicine with "active" meditations, like t'ai chi and qi gong.

 

Dear Stoner Shadow Wolf:

Yes, that sounds about right. I've been working on pain issues for 35 yrs; that's how I got into all this "stuff." Around when I first joined TaoBums, I started doing standing meditation more seriously and added one aspect I gained from someone on this listserve and have actually made some surprisingly good progress. This week at work has probably been the worst I've had in a year and yet I feel "ok". That is rare for me, so I wonder when the bubble will burst. I've been disappointed in the past when my breakthroughs don't last, but overall have made progress, so some do stay, at least partially.

However, my main pain issue is still only say 50% better with 35 years of meditating and 10 years of qigong and 5 years of tai chi. However, part of this is that while qigong/tai chi are good for certain things, other things require a quite high level of accomplishment to make much progress and I'm not there yet. But I'm getting better and think recently I've come up another notch and from my standpoint, that's worth it.

thanks,

WallaMike

[WallaMike]

Not much. Short warm-up on each of major joints: wrists & ankles (all 4 can be done simultaneously if you're sitting down), hips, shoulders, spine (esp neck).

 

p.s.

If you want to be more thorough then get Sonnon's Intu-flow.

[WallaMike]

Dear Trunk:

A very interesting site. I especially liked the babe sitting on his leg while he was suspended between two chairs! I also like his ideas of stored trauma/fear in the tissues, sort of like Wilhelm Reich's ideas of armouring, cranial sacral somato-emotional releases, etc. We're talking in the same area here, just using different language so that people with different perspectives can better understand it.

I'll read more and get back to you if I discover anything interesting!

WallaMike