Dzogchen (and Buddhism) Summarized

[styrofoamdog]

[Sunya]

Interesting post Styro, thanks.

[RongzomFan]

ALL tibetan buddhist schools recognize Dzogchen as authoritative, even Mahamudra crazy Kagyu. Its not being fundamental. Thats just the way it is.

 

 

If you want to be a sutra guy thats fine, but don't misrepresent Dzogchen.

 

Zen has NOTHING to do with Dzogchen.

 

Is there any tantric anatomy (channels etc.) in Zen? Nope.

Direct Introduction in Zen? Nope.

Buddhahood in one lifetime in Zen? Nope.

Buddahood for females? Nope.

Does Zen take mind as the basis of the path? Yes.

Distinguishing rigpa from sems? Nope.

 

 

Zen is based on the Mahayana Sutras (look it up), while Dzogchen is based on the tantras.

 

 

P.S. Dzogchen IS Indian.

Edited June 27, 2010 by alwayson

[ralis]

I wonder if you would speak to the difference between suppression and liberation.

 

I will try my best. For many years I practiced Vipassana meditation. Everything was fine for the first 2 years. At some point in time this type of practice will begin to reveal the contents of one's unconscious mind and has the potential to cause disturbances. When the fears became larger than life, I tried to control and transform them (suppress), which made it worse. It was as if my mind became like concrete. How did I solve this problem? I starting doing Vipassana with my eyes open and facing the sky. A Lama taught me to do this. Then I started to naturally relax (this happened very quickly) and the once disturbing movement in my mind, disturbed me no longer (liberated). Liberation seems to be more of a feeling and is not some cognitive construct. It needs to be pointed to rather than discussed.

 

I hope that is clear, if not just ask.

 

ralis

[Pero]

I see nothing has changed. Like a dog's nose, but I guess we're all a bit like that hahah.

[goldisheavy]

Actually it does. This is what Loppon Namdrol says:

 

My comment is based on a statement by Longchenpa:

 

"The essence of mind is an obscuration to be given up. The essence of rigpa is wisdom to be attained."

 

This means that mind itself is a knowledge obscuration, hopeless trapped in dualism until it is allowed to self-liberate. That is the wisdom of rigpa.

 

 

Ok back to me, I think the mind is simply when rstal mixes with karmic winds. Even Hinayana and Hindu practitioners can meditate on the "empty" characteristics of the mind. This is NOT Dzogchen.

 

Namdrol is wrong. Too bad. I am an old friend of Namdrol's too. Namdrol fails to distinguish mind from mindset. Furthermore, while Namdrol is quite intelligent, he has a penchant for dogmatically and uncritically parroting what he hears. He does seem to have a decent taste, so at least he chooses fine things to parrot, but at the same time, he doesn't really make anything his own. He doesn't assimilate the teachings as meanings and instead just keeps quoting and quoting. I'm afraid to say that Namdrol has become a sort of Dzogchen fundamentalist. I didn't think it would be possible, but there you have it. Just shows the limitless capacity of mind to manifest.

[goldisheavy]

It is pretty simple everyone. Just relax and distinguish rigpa and sems from each other. Thats it.

 

Distinguish mind from mindset. That's how you say the same thing in English. See, I actually know what the hell Dzogchen is talking about and not just mindlessly parrot it like a moron.

[RongzomFan]

I respect a knowledgeable Sakya Loppon's opinion more than yours.

 

Next you will deny distinguishing rigpa from sems.

[RongzomFan]

LOL, I called it

[goldisheavy]

[goldisheavy]

I respect a knowledgeable Sakya Loppon's opinion more than yours.

 

Next you will deny distinguishing rigpa from sems.

 

Good luck with your choices in life.

[RongzomFan]

Just because someone takes samaya vows seriously does not mean they have no personal experience.

 

Dalai Lama also says he will never admit he is enlightened even if he is.

 

Loppon Namdrol is not a teacher who gives direct introduction you know

[ralis]

Distinguish mind from mindset. That's how you say the same thing in English. See, I actually know what the hell Dzogchen is talking about and not just mindlessly parrot it like a moron.

 

Thanks for the plain English. That is sorely lacking these days.

 

ralis

[RongzomFan]

Dzogchen sutra-thumper

 

 

There is no such thing as Dzogchen sutra. Maybe you should go back to arguing how Soviet russia was the best government in the world.

[RongzomFan]

Thanks for the plain English. That is sorely lacking these days.

 

ralis

 

 

Relax and distinguish crystal clear purity from mind. How is that plain english?

Edited June 27, 2010 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

Good luck with your choices in life.

 

 

You are saying, you are more knowledgeable that a Sakya Loppon and that I should listen to you. You do have balls, I have to give you that. Aren't you a communist? What are your other qualifications?

[Vajrahridaya]

I went to bed at 1:00a.m. MST and since you are in Fla. it was 3:00a.m. Did one of your buddies PM you so you could correct me.

 

I never go to bed early. I didn't get home until after 2am from work.

 

1. I realized Guru Yoga and the complete experience of it years ago.

 

I have my doubts.

 

2. How do you know I if I have or have not read the "Precious Vase"? Are you psychic?

 

Because I've asked you before and you always answer in this cryptic fashion. Basically not answering.

 

3. By your continuous rant about dependent origination etc. you have conceptualized it for many who read what you post.

 

It should be understood intellectually first. Dzogchen is not different from the goal of Buddhism. If you think this, than you haven't understood Dzogchen.

 

4. Not only have I integrated Trekchod, I practice Thogal. I received both of these transmissions in my first week long retreat with Norbu.

 

Ok.

 

 

6. However, you are never able to accomplish that.

 

Now who is so self important and wrapped up in his opinion as reality?

 

7. At least I am honest in stating that communicating the "natural state" is difficult and can easily be misunderstood. Obviously you can't understand that since you rant endlessly and never are honest with your audience.

 

You're actually mostly a jerk who makes personal attacks. This is the first time I've ever seen you in 2 years post something of depth. I am actually partially impressed. It seems that you do know something about Dzogchen.

 

Communicating the natural state is neither difficult nor not difficult. I express what I express without judging myself for the most part. I apologize sometimes because that seems necessary to help people relax about my experiential opinions.

 

You are only interested in trying to dazzle your readers. If it were easy, then why have you created so much confusion and controversy?

 

Only readers create confusion and controversy. There are lots here who have voiced their opinion on my writing that is contrary to yours. You are so self important that you think your opinion of my writing is definitive. There are plenty of people, who have the same opinions of ChNNR. Is this his fault? No. Of course I'm not comparing myself or my clarity with him, but just using him as a point. If even such a highly realized teacher confuses some people and has controversy around him, then even a little peon like me could have some too. Actually, generally speaking, the more highly realized the teacher and the more outspoken the teacher, like the Buddha for instance, the more confusion and controversy there will be around that person. The Buddha had tons of people who wanted to straight up kill him, talk about controversy and confusion.

 

Like I said, your take on me is your issue, not mine. Get over yourself.

 

8. Songs asked for a basic explanation and I am trying to help him out. Only because he asked.

 

Yes, but he didn't ask for a long and personal criticism of everyone else here. As if you were the end all be all.

 

You do not own this teaching! Also there are many wonderful teachers out there besides Norbu.

 

No I don't, and yes there are. But neither do you and your opinion is not definitive, so stop acting like it is.

 

Talk about reactionary.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[RongzomFan]

Vajrahridaya,

 

Don't you believe you are the rebirth of a Mahabrahma? LOL

[RongzomFan]

which means you have the divya caksus.

 

Are you the same Mahabrahma that roled with Shakyamuni?

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Loppon Namdrol is not a teacher who gives direct introduction you know

 

Loppon Namdrol is deeply experienced and deeply compassionate. He should be highly respected as he deserves deep respect for his clarity. He has been a student of ChNNR for a very long time and actually follows all of ChNNR's teachings, and lives next to the main Dzogchen center in Western Mass. called Tsegyalgar. He considers ChNNR his main teacher and has received many private teachings from him. He is far more qualified than any of us here to teach Dzogchen. I've met him in person and spent some time with him at Tsegyalgar while at a retreat there. He is a real deal.

[Pero]

GIH, what does this "mindset" mean to you?

[Vajrahridaya]

Vajrahridaya,

 

Don't you believe you are the rebirth of a Mahabrahma? LOL

 

I've been a Brahma. Not Mahabrahma. There are many Brahmas. In one of my memories, I remember having immense power over a small universe and being completely lost in it and the idea that I had created it, and part of my waking up was to look around the cosmos and see endless Brahmas who were under the same powerful delusion as I.

 

I don't know if I was that same Brahma as I generally only remember bits and pieces with utter clarity.

 

Most likely, many of you within the span of eternal time were one type of god or another, but just don't remember it. It took me very intense practicing to come to the level of memory I do have. It didn't just happen from living a worldly life.

[ralis]

Edited June 27, 2010 by ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

I will try my best. For many years I practiced Vipassana meditation. Everything was fine for the first 2 years. At some point in time this type of practice will begin to reveal the contents of one's unconscious mind and has the potential to cause disturbances. When the fears became larger than life, I tried to control and transform them (suppress), which made it worse. It was as if my mind became like concrete. How did I solve this problem? I starting doing Vipassana with my eyes open and facing the sky. A Lama taught me to do this. Then I started to naturally relax (this happened very quickly) and the once disturbing movement in my mind, disturbed me no longer (liberated). Liberation seems to be more of a feeling and is not some cognitive construct. It needs to be pointed to rather than discussed.

 

I hope that is clear, if not just ask.

 

ralis

 

Yes, that is clear in fact. Now relax and be nicer.

[Vajrahridaya]